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Ask HN: Been job searching for 3 years. Do I need speech therapy?

16 pointsby ccajasabout 7 years ago
I brought it up mostly since my mom and her cousin suggested that I go with a speech therapist to help me get job offers. I am a software engineer with experience, having worked in 4 past jobs as a SWE. But I have never had to look for jobs for so long before. In the past, I usually get an offer within a few months. But after 2014 it&#x27;s been different. I was laid off from a full-time job and I haven&#x27;t been able to get anything full-time since.<p>I am a self-taught programmer. have entered the industry 11 years ago but I don&#x27;t believe ageism is playing a part here. Still getting no adverse feedback on that as I look young for my age.<p>I have a few projects on Github and more recently I&#x27;m too burned out to do another programming project. But I continue to read articles and posts on the software industry, chat with others to stay abreast of local events.<p>My greatest bottleneck would be with the interviewing process. My resume is not the main problem, as I&#x27;ve gotten into many interviews with it. I have been able to get several phone interviews, but hard to pass them. My last on-site was in 2017.<p>Despite that, I have landed three contracts for freelance work, one from a former employer who already is familiar with me and my work, and the other two from Redditors who were seeking game developers. They were convinced by my projects and was able to deliver a good job to them.<p>So while I&#x27;m able to get some freelance work through unconventional means, what I am really looking for in the long run is a steady full-time job. Jobs applied through Indeed, StackOverflow, LinkedIn, etc. net me no offers.<p>A few family members have said that I show traits that might put me on the autism spectrum. I don&#x27;t have unemployed insurance. But my family wants me to go through a service that treats people with social disabilities in order to start working again. So is three years long enoug reason for doing so? Or is it approaching the norm for programmers?

12 comments

rajacombinatorabout 7 years ago
3 years of dedicated searching by a qualified programmer is not the norm. 3 months is probably more typical. You probably know this but are depressed and in denial.<p>Speech therapy, impossible to say as an outsider, but why not try it? Your family members probably have some reasons for thinking that could be a factor. Whatever you’re doing now isn’t working, and you haven’t been able to diagnose the problem, so getting outside advice seems prudent.
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istoricalabout 7 years ago
Asking this question on a public forum is a leap of faith, and to be applauded. Perhaps you&#x27;d get better feedback if you recorded yourself doing a mock interview on your webcam if you have one, and then upload as private&#x2F;unlisted YouTube video, and then repost here but with a link to the video as well. If you need to you could also just upload an audio recording if you&#x27;re worried about anonymity. Regardless, 3 years is a long period to search. You definitely need to try tweaking variables in your approach. There&#x27;s something that&#x27;s not working. It could be the # of companies you apply to per day or per week. It could be the quality of your resume or application. It could be your communication style. It could be your code. But without demonstrating those things in a tangible way to others on this forum or to other software developers online or in real life, no one can diagnose your issue.<p>I encourage you to continue to open yourself up and make yourself vulnerable enough to show those aspects of your job hunt persona and work to others so they can give you candid feedback. Just be aware everyone online can only speculate without seeing you do a mock interview, seeing your resume, seeing your code.<p>If you&#x27;ve spent 3 years, you might consider hiring a software specializing recruiter to work with you or finding one that works on commission. Getting honest feedback from a third party like a recruiter is more valuable than this forum. GL.<p>Lastly, it might be the 3 year gap itself that looks like a red flag to hiring departments. You might want to come up with a story about how you were sailing around the world, or spent time as an English teacher in Cambodia, or lived in a monastery as a Catholic monk.
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WheelsAtLargeabout 7 years ago
Obviously, I don&#x27;t know your situation but I know that self-taught programmers are harder to quantify in terms of their skills. I&#x27;ve known self-taught programmers that right beautiful code but I&#x27;ve also known self-taught programmers that write spaghetti code. I know it&#x27;s the same situation with cs degree students but at least there I know they&#x27;ve gone through a training program that at least tried to teach them the basics. I can&#x27;t say the same thing for self-taught programmers.<p>Keep in mind that for a while now IT careers have been the hot field so a lot of people have gone into it to study. When you got your job 11 years ago that was not really the case so employers can now be picky as to who they hire. I know many of my friends complain that they&#x27;ve gotten jobs that don&#x27;t pay what they were expecting and that&#x27;s basically because there&#x27;s more supply than demand for those possitions.<p>I know for a fact that if I&#x27;m hiring for a full-time position I would look for a programmer that has a CS degree. My advice to you is to get some kind of degree while you&#x27;re looking for a job so at least you can show it in the future.<p>I also suggest to you that you start working on your professional contacts and create a network of people that understand what your skills are and let them know that you&#x27;re looking for a job. If people understand your skills they&#x27;re more likely to hire you or recommend you to an employer.<p>Also, keep this in mind, people are more likely to hire people that look like themselves so when you go into these interviews make sure you don&#x27;t stand out. Make sure that from the start they feel that you are part of the team.<p>You should also look into going to mock interviews so that your interviewers can let you know what they thought you did well and what you did bad.<p>Unless your speech is horrible then speech therapy classes will do little for you.
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bjourneabout 7 years ago
No one can know if you need speech therapy without first having heard your voice. And even if we on HN could hear your voice, most of us aren&#x27;t speech therapists so how should we know?<p>That said, there is definitely an autism voice. It sounds &quot;throutish&quot; and is especially apparent among women. Perhaps because non-autistic women in general tend to have more melodic voices. However, that is a distinctive way of speaking and not a speech impediment in itself.<p>So unless you believe that employers are discriminating against autistic candidates, altering your voice won&#x27;t help. But perhaps you can try and speak louder -- it is often seen as a marker of confidence.
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jakeoghabout 7 years ago
I know this is almost cliche for such a specific question, but it&#x27;s helped me in so many ways, it&#x27;s worth saying, exercise. Find a gym routine, let your guard down, make friends there and stick to it. If you haven&#x27;t tried it, it&#x27;s difficult to imagine how much it helps with life in general.
ajeet_dhaliwalabout 7 years ago
Where do you live? Don&#x27;t need your zip&#x2F;post code, just want to know the city&#x2F;country. I think this makes a huge difference. Based on your employment history I don&#x27;t see how your speech can be an issue unless your previous employers were all super desperate for someone.
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auganovabout 7 years ago
So how many interviews? In what way do you think you&#x27;re failing verbal interviews? You say getting offers in the past hasn&#x27;t been a problem - this suggests communication patterns might not be the key issue (assuming you haven&#x27;t regressed in that respect).
codesternewsabout 7 years ago
Record your voice and answer Tell me about yourself? and put on the soundcloud or somewhere and share it with HN.<p>I think HN might help you. But without listening your voice they can not able to judge or answer.
smt88about 7 years ago
Unfortunately, unemployment is sticky[1]. That <i>might</i> be your entire problem.<p>When I&#x27;m hiring software people, I get three types of applications:<p>1) Self-taught, usually working in startups and small companies; often a little bit older<p>2) CS grads, usually working at larger companies<p>3) Totally unqualified (non-technical applying for technical role, etc.)<p>It sounds like you&#x27;re in bucket #2. As an employer, I&#x27;m naturally going to wonder why you&#x27;ve been unable to find a job in a good market. Hiring (like venture capital, dating, and all other human selection processes) is highly social. We tend to want the people who are in high demand.<p>What makes my job hard is that a lot of the CVs in each bucket are very, very similar. My job becomes finding ways to narrow the applications down from hundreds to, hopefully, less than 10. But how do I do that?<p>You eventually start finding excuses to exclude someone: got an unrelated Master&#x27;s degree, went to a lesser-known school for undergrad, etc. These are usually really bad filters, but unless you start using software to do this process for you, there isn&#x27;t much choice. You can&#x27;t interview 100 people for every role[2].<p>If I had to guess from my own experience, I&#x27;d guess that your biggest problem (by far) is the gap in your resume. If you can find a way to retroactively fill it (adding volunteering, descriptions of contract work, etc.) then you&#x27;ll be much better off.<p>My other guess is that many companies are getting more reluctant to hire self-taught people. There are enough CS grads that you just don&#x27;t need to hire self-taught people anymore (if you don&#x27;t want to), and if that person turns out to suck, you can cover your ass by saying, &quot;Well, they had the degree...&quot;<p>If you&#x27;ve been burned out by doing Github projects, I think you should think about whether a career change makes sense. You could also try to become a freelancer. If you need to build up your portfolio, you can try to do work for free for non-profits until people want to hire you.<p>I hope that helps! Unfortunately, there are no easy answers. Your family knows you best and is probably right that seeking to learn and practice social skills could help.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;freeexchange&#x2F;2011&#x2F;07&#x2F;labour-markets" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;freeexchange&#x2F;2011&#x2F;07&#x2F;labour-...</a><p>2. I know there are startups created to solve this exact issue, but I despise the idea of whiteboard-style interviews (even the online ones that work more like homework or a standardized test)
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muzaniabout 7 years ago
You might just be nervous instead of needing &quot;speech therapy&quot;. You could try to practice and improve on sites like interviewing.io
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KempFoodabout 7 years ago
This is a great time. Low unemployment levels.<p>As long as you are happy to serve, there are lots of jobs.<p>Stay the course!
mdoughertyabout 7 years ago
I have not read all the responses, so maybe this has been mentioned already. But just in case it hasn&#x27;t and if you think it has to do with your communication style, I would highly recommend something like Toastmasters (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.toastmasters.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.toastmasters.org</a>).<p>I did it for a few years way back when and it really helped me be a better communicator, both on the job (and in job interviews) as well as in daily life.<p>BTW, I have no affiliation, just a satisfied previous club member.<p>Hope that helps.