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Why Is It Hard to Make Friends Over 30? (2012)

323 pointsby brunoluizabout 7 years ago

36 comments

donttrackabout 7 years ago
When I visit my wifes family in (very) rural China, it kind of reminds me how we used to socially interact back when I was young 20 years ago. People would just pop by back then and sit in my couch for an hour or two, have a talk, watch some TV and get a snack and tea for no particular reason other than they just wanted to come by and it was okay. Everyone is always busy doing something today and everything has to be planned and just popping by feels weird and rude now..<p>Its funny how people had time to do something like standing in line at the post office to pay their bills back then, but they still managed to spend and hour or two to just be with a friend for no special reason. Maybe it was just a necessity back then without the phones and all and nobody actually really liked to spend time with friends and family. Seems like friendship has been automated somehow today to make it more efficient. I bet that in 1000 years long after human kind has disappeared, there will be friends sending each other automated birthday greetings in one of those solar powered data centers somewhere in Finland.
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spyckie2about 7 years ago
I&#x27;m going to throw out a controversial statement: It&#x27;s hard because adults don&#x27;t (and rightfully shouldn&#x27;t) make friends a priority.<p>When you&#x27;re young (&lt;20), you don&#x27;t have many responsibilities or long term goals. But as soon as you get out of college, you have several multi-decade goals to work towards:<p>1) asset accumulation<p>2) lifestyle development<p>3) family raising<p>From a pure risk management point of view, assets, lifstyle, and family are much more stable in terms of extracting value from.<p>Friends, from a value added point of view, are a risky investment for a couple of reasons. They require time and commitment to make and get value out of, but have a high chance of no return. If you invest too much in friends, you&#x27;re pretty much guaranteed that something out of your control breaks the friendship by 5-10 years, either moving away, diverging interests, or the most likely, the friend decides to invest time in the assets, lifestyle, and family instead of your friendship.<p>There&#x27;s a vicious circle (opposite of virtuous cycle) in this. As a society, if more people focus on family, assets, and lifestyle because they are less risky, there&#x27;s less people willing to commit to being a friend available for those that want to focus on friendships, and eventually friendship by the age of 30 become extinct except in rare cases where special environments sustain them.<p>To summarize, it&#x27;s a systemic issue where even if you wanted to make friends, it&#x27;s not worth it as an adult to do so.
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fardoabout 7 years ago
I think the elephant in the room for making new friends over 30, is stagnation in one&#x27;s daily routine caused by one&#x27;s job.<p>I don&#x27;t think anything changed dramatically in the last 60 or so years on this point, even with the development of social media; by the time you&#x27;re 30, you&#x27;re basically done making friends.<p>The article glossed over it, but in your childhood and teens, you&#x27;re surrounded by a new group of people every 5 or so years, and just through sheer quantity, you&#x27;re likely to make at least a few friends. Throw on team sports, extracurriculars, clubs, and the ease of introductions in a school environment, and it&#x27;s almost impossible not to make a few friends all the way into your late 20s.<p>Somewhere around when you turn 25 or so, though, without substantial effort, things stabilize. If you were going to leave your home, you probably did, and you&#x27;re settled in. You and your old friends start to marry and have kids, and both of these occupy your free time (and theirs). You may have bought a house or found a job you want to settle into for a while, with plans to stick around for several years.<p>For at least 8 hours of your day, you are at work, interacting with people in an environment toxic for creating trusting friendships (You&#x27;re competing for the same roles, titles, bonuses, etc.), and worse, these people you&#x27;re competing with are almost always the exact same people, so if you&#x27;re not really friends with any of them immediately, that&#x27;s basically never going to change.<p>With the remaining time in your evenings, you&#x27;ll also settle into a routine. You won&#x27;t be playing sports anymore, and if you have hobbies, you&#x27;ll generally be doing them with the same small consistent set of people in your area, assuming you do them with others at all.<p>So, in short, if your 8-hour workday isn&#x27;t a time to make friends, and you&#x27;re not interacting with people in a way that leads to making friends in your 8-hour evenings, when the hell do you expect to be making your friends over 30, during your 8-hours asleep?
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steve19about 7 years ago
I have made plenty of friends after the age of 30. The problem is that is is hard work. New friendships consume more time than old friends.<p>The ratio of people actively befriending me, is lower than people I befriend. Maybe 3:1 Making me think most people don&#x27;t put much effort into making friends.<p>My advice would be:<p>1. Networking is not making friends. If you want to leverage someone, it&#x27;s a business relationship not a friendship.<p>2. People who befriend you might not be the kind of person you would choose to be your friend, but they obviously like you enough to make an effort so give them a chance and reciprocate. People probably try to befriend you but you don&#x27;t even notice.<p>3. Let bad or superficial friendships go and concentrate on making good ones. I have loads of really close friends, but keep my Facebook friend count (relatively) low.<p>4. If a friend is having a problem, help them. This is how you move past the superficial friendship. Prove you are worthy of being a friend.<p>5. Never screw a friend over. See rule #1. If you intend to play a zero sum game with a friend, be willing to lose that friend. (I do business with good friends, but only if I know I will never be in a position to have to choose between my wealth&#x2F;happiness and theirs). Also always be honest. Friendship requires trust.<p>6. Make an effort. Ask people out for a drink or a coffee. Invite them over for dinner. It&#x27;s hugely time consuming. This week I am running out of time with friends wanting to hang out and friends who need help. But it&#x27;s worth it.<p>7. Join clubs, organizations and&#x2F;or religious institutions. Not just one. Friends of mine had good success with dance classes.<p>8. One close friend is worth hundreds of superficial friendships.
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lkrubnerabout 7 years ago
I’ve recently started throwing a monthly dinner party and I invite a diverse group that pulls in people from work and politics and theater and other places I’ve lived. I’ve found this is a good way to build a stable social group, especially here in New York, where people are so busy the once-a-month structure is useful, the dinner becomes a not too often but still recurring event. Once a month is about the right frequency.<p>I recall that my parents used to have dinner parties all the time, out in the suburbs during the 1970s&#x2F;1980s and their friends also had dinner parties. There was a culture of dinner parties among adults back then. For some reason it died out. But I think the idea, and the habit, is a useful one.
molticrystalabout 7 years ago
Discussed here with 700+ comments in February: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16424954" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16424954</a>
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raz32dustabout 7 years ago
In Germany, I witnessed a multi-family household. A married couple bought the house. Then they had kids, but they divorced amicably yet continued to live in the same house. Then each of them found a new partner who also started living in the same house. Now they are like friends, with 3 couples living together, and 5 kids in the house. It&#x27;s hard for me to imagine living like that, the stress that would take, but they seem to be happy with the arrangement and they hang out together and take care of each other&#x27;s kids. That might be a better model for society in the future. Not necessarily marrying, but living in a close community with your friends. It is interesting to think about the logistics and social changes that need to happen for this to work, though.
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your-nannyabout 7 years ago
For a lot of people in a lot of places not called the bay area, people move to a town and find themselves a church. The church organizes provides all kinds of opportunities to socialize and make friends in a non competitive in-group sort of way. I&#x27;m not religious, and think that organizing life around church can promote certain myopic attitudes, but I can see how this kind of access to an egalitarian community of worship can really have benefits
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squiggleblazabout 7 years ago
I haven&#x27;t read the article. My reply is not a response to the article, but intended for an audience who might think their life is looking all downhill from here.<p>In my late 20s my life looked like downhill. I had had friends but I had no friends at that point. I was single and alone. I was depressed and anxious. The only good thing I had going for me was that I had a job.<p>Just before I turned 30 I was fortunate to come across a video on youtube which pointed out that there were various quite impressive personages who were at 30 failures and only became the impressive persons after that date. I don&#x27;t have to become a genius, but it&#x27;s nice to know that our society&#x27;s rich privilege that favors young people says nothing about human nature. Life can get better from any starting point, and there&#x27;s nothing wrong with ageing.<p>And then I joined a community where I was able to find friends. (In my case, it&#x27;s the Esperanto community.) Now I&#x27;m engaged to someone I met through the community (though she&#x27;s not an Esperantist) and my own personal community of friends has expanded even further. Now I&#x27;ve got the opposite problem I used to have - I have so many friends I struggle to balance them all (and my own need to have some empty time - perhaps higher than average because I became so accustomed to being alone). It happened in only a few short years (today I&#x27;m almost 34, but it feels like I&#x27;ve got another life). My fiancee regards me as an optimist - anyone who knew me five years ago would be shocked.<p>And all this is to say nothing about the changes I&#x27;ve witnessed in my parents&#x27; lives in the same period.<p>It might be harder for humans to get friends after 30 but you don&#x27;t need to think &quot;I&#x27;m a friendless blahblah year old, what hope is there for me?&quot;.
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LogicXabout 7 years ago
Relevant: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;waitbutwhy.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;10-types-odd-friendships-youre-probably-part.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;waitbutwhy.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;10-types-odd-friendships-your...</a><p>When I read that two weeks ago, I reached out to an acquaintence who I wished to &#x27;move up&#x27; the friend tier structure, because he (and his wife) fit into the Healthy &amp; Enjoyable quandrant. Last weekend they came over to see an air show. Today they invited my wife and I out on their boat. We all had an amazing time.<p>We&#x27;re all in our 30s. It&#x27;s tough. But I like to idea of focusing on the ones which can make an impact, and are healthy and make you happy having them as friends. I&#x27;m an advocate for fewer, closer friendships.
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marcoflorianoabout 7 years ago
In my case marriage was the great motivator for leaving frendiship and not having new friends. My old friends who are single now, still have good friendship, even after 30. I guess my best friend is my wife now.
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sametmaxabout 7 years ago
It&#x27;s not. I&#x27;m still making new friends regularly. It&#x27;s not about the age. It&#x27;s about your lifestyle and your desire to make friends.<p>It just happens that a lot of people, around 30, prioritize some life styles that makes you less social. Also, they are trying to make something out of what they have right now, instead of getting something new.
miqktabout 7 years ago
Having just turned 31 recently, this read hits hard with my own experiences. From time to time I worry I&#x27;ll end up languishing in old age due to loneliness without a network of supportive friends.<p>Some seem to reiterate the importance of time investment into the search for new friends. I agree with this. The more you put yourself out there, the odds would hopefully be more in your favour. However, the guarantee of the outcome isn&#x27;t there. One could spend hours, days, months joining various hobby and interest groups with such an agenda and still end up with nothing.<p>It&#x27;s almost like after a certain age, new friendships become more incentivised. The friendship itself only exists because it can be rationalised with mutual benefits.
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tarkin2about 7 years ago
Most of the 20s social activities are there to find mates. In our 30s an increasing number no longer need to do this, and another number don&#x27;t have the time anyway due to work or family.<p>In our 20s we still have our school friends, and they introduce us to their friends. We study and make friends. They introduce us to their friends. There&#x27;s always a few parties. I&#x27;m those parties mostly everyone is looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend. We&#x27;re in the same boat. We have common aims.<p>In our 30s, those school friends have largely disappeared. We stop studying and stop meeting fellow students. The parties dry up: more and more of those people now have found someone and find no need to &quot;party&quot;.<p>You have your workplace. But if you&#x27;re a manager your friends are often brown-nosing. And if you&#x27;re not, office or company politics may interfere. And those left may need to rush back to look after their kids anyway.<p>The best thing I&#x27;ve found is volunteering. You meet new people, you form new friendships, you learn new skills, you help your community, your week now probably involves at least a little more exercise.
monksyabout 7 years ago
Why is it hard to make friends?<p>----<p>Answer: You don&#x27;t put effort into doing that.
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jackcosgroveabout 7 years ago
Because we have fewer and fewer shared experiences as our lives diverge and specialize. I&#x27;ll go out on a limb and say that there&#x27;s no such thing as a fixed personal identity that is some ineffable quality of everyone. Presumably people with similar identities could bond at any time of their lives, but I haven&#x27;t found that to be the case. You are what you do and think, and people keep changing. As society becomes more complex with more unique niches, and also becomes less colocated, the chances that you find someone in person with similar experiences keeps declining. Sure you can go online but we all know that&#x27;s not the same.
delbelabout 7 years ago
it isn&#x27;t hard at all practically everyone I meet becomes a friend. How much time do I have to dedicate to friendship? Practically none, but that doesn&#x27;t stop them from coming over --sometimes to much. Just don&#x27;t be so judgmental. There&#x27;s also this toxic ideology that unfortunately has swept the society that promotes defeatism, victimhoodization, promoting sociopaths ways of judging people, locking in your thinking through group think&#x2F;wrong think. This ideology use to be a good value in our society before it was hijcked, it promoted peace and anti-war, individual liberties, as long as you didn&#x27;t hurt another person. Now its been hijacked by very evil people and it has entrapped people into defeating themselves. Once you free yourself from this toxic way of thinking, the world is everything that you make good of it. Everyone wants to join you and make it more wonderful. It is truly the greatest time to live and have friends.
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downandoutabout 7 years ago
From the article:<p><i>&quot;Editor’s note: This article first ran on July 13, 2012, but we’re running it again because the topic is timeless.&quot;</i><p>I see this kind of thing happening more and more. Looking at the tags on the page, it bears a modified date of 2018-02-09T19:25:10-05:00. This is important, because they are telling Google that the content has been updated, when it hasn&#x27;t. But they&#x27;ll get more traffic and revenue now from an old article by lying to Google.<p>You see this happening on TV now too. In a technique I call &quot;DVR Fraud,&quot; shows like 60 Minutes, which are made up of a few 15-30 minute segments per episode, are mixing and matching segments from old shows and creating &quot;new&quot; episodes with nothing new in them except for brief commentary explaining &quot;as we first showed you in 20XX...&quot;. They are marked as &quot;new&quot; in the program guide, and if you have set your DVR to record only new episodes of that show, it will record this rehashed content.<p>TV networks and websites are abusing automated services and tools like Google and your DVR to generate new revenue from old, rehashed content. I despise regulation, but I think somebody needs to take a look at least at the DVR Fraud issue. It is becoming a large-scale fraud, as it is being used to artificially inflate Nielsen ratings, and likely siphon millions of ad dollars based upon viewership that would never have watched the content had it been properly labeled as a rerun.
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maym86about 7 years ago
Put effort into a group activity or club that isn&#x27;t work and you&#x27;ll make friends. Regularly meeting the same people eventually turns into friendship.
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imd23about 7 years ago
I&#x27;m 25 and it hard as f<i></i>*.
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eecsninjaabout 7 years ago
People go their separate ways in their 20s. There is less of the shared struggle that characterized college camaraderie.<p>It also becomes harder to line up schedules to keep in touch with old friends. Back in college, at least everyone was on the same academic calendar.
bwang29about 7 years ago
Is it socially awkward to admit that one has no friend after 30?
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overcastabout 7 years ago
Just about to turn 38, and it&#x27;s certainly true that after college, friends ramp down significantly. You&#x27;ll stay in touch with a handful maybe if you&#x27;re lucky. If you&#x27;re a male, that number is usually much smaller than a female. My suggestion, find a hobby, a side venture, whatever it is, that integrates you into the local social scene. A few years ago I started doing food&#x2F;cocktail promotion and the amount of social experiences I&#x27;ve had since then has skyrocketed, and yes some <i>actual</i> friends have come of it. They may not be childhood close friends level, but we&#x27;re all on the same page. Everyone knows it&#x27;s hard, and that&#x27;s why we get together.
mwfunkabout 7 years ago
Part of it’s obviously the changing social outlets and life situations as we get older, but IMO the biggest reason is that social interaction for its own sake loses a lot of its luster as people get older. Friendship becomes more focused and personal, alone time becomes much scarcer and more precious, and everyone’s just way less bored all the time.<p>The threat of boredom is always a huge motivator for people to hang out and try not to be bored together. As people get older, that ceases to be a social motivator for many&#x2F;most people. They may still have a bunch of other reasons for wanting to socialize, but boredom’s not one of them.
protomokabout 7 years ago
I can definitely resonate with this line: &quot;Once people start coupling up, the challenges only increase. Making friends with other couples “is like matchmaking for two,” said Kara Baskin, a journalist who works in Boston.&quot;<p>From experience, finding new couple friends appears to be impossible. The difficulty is even quantifiable. For example, to make a friend person A must like person B, and vice versa, or expressed as a permutation: P(2,2)=2 units of difficulty.<p>But to make a couple friend the difficulty increases to P(4,2)=12...a 6x increase :(<p>Has anyone had success finding couple friends?
saxatrumpetabout 7 years ago
&gt;Basically, she suggests, this is because people have an internal alarm clock that goes off at big life events, like turning 30.<p>I disagree with this notion that adults at the age of 30 shift their focus to children when the average age of first time mothers has steadily risen to 26.3 years old since 1970.<p>I feel like the general points made in this article apply more to 35-40 year olds as I know there are plenty of people in their early 30&#x27;s still focused on growing their social circles without settling down with a family yet.
goshxabout 7 years ago
This article actually makes me feel better for living in the US for almost a decade, now in my mid 30’s, having less real friends here than fingers in my left hand.
starkruzrabout 7 years ago
Living in Washington, DC with a lot of other people who are over the age of 30 and still single, it&#x27;s not as hard as I anticipated it would be, actually. The key is to have reasons to bring people together. I&#x27;m in a karaoke club, and a programming meetup, and several other things, and my social life is pretty healthy as a result.<p>With parenthood in the mix, you have to get really aggressive about scheduling, but it&#x27;s still not impossible.
rezonerabout 7 years ago
I find it easier to make meaningful relations now that I am past 30. Usually these start with doing something that really matters together and on top of that I have way better access to people who match my intelectual profile. Maybe it&#x27;s simply because I am a person who goes out looking for good things to happen not wait for them to come.
edemabout 7 years ago
This post from Wait But Why is relevant I think: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;waitbutwhy.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;10-types-odd-friendships-youre-probably-part.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;waitbutwhy.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;10-types-odd-friendships-your...</a>
rgrieselhuberabout 7 years ago
Anecdotally, a lot of men in my circle complain that their wives won&#x27;t let them spend time with other men, outside of family gatherings. Definitely not healthy, definitely needs to be remedied.
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agumonkeyabout 7 years ago
biology ? after teen years your brain&#x27;s primary focus will be sexual bonding and then children
amyjessabout 7 years ago
I&#x27;m 33, and this hits pretty hard.<p>Ever since I graduated college, I&#x27;ve watched my circle of friends dwindle over the years, as all of us have busy lives and don&#x27;t have much room for socialization, especially not when factoring in each other&#x27;s schedules.<p>I stopped talking to one of the few close friends I had left after he married an extremist tradcon and started posting a constant stream of hate. It&#x27;s really disheartening to watch a guy who used to be one of the most compassionate people I know post memes with slurs in them (including slurs against a group I&#x27;m part of), videos by Neo-Nazis, rants about how Jimmy Kimmel&#x27;s done deserves to die, etc. He went from being like a brother to me to being someone I never want to talk to again. And even before he completely jumped down the alt-right rabbit hole, as soon as he started dating her, I would never see him without her ever again. It was draining inviting him to hang out places and him always bringing his then-girlfriend who I hated with him every single time. Even when I went to buy him expensive scotch at a bar to congratulate him on his engagement (because even though I hate her guts, I was still happy for him that he found someone), she decided to tag along (seriously, that was supposed to be a private moment between me and him)... I really regret wasting that money on scotch for both of them given what he&#x27;s turned into.<p>In the last month, I have set foot of my house to socialize exactly once, and that was for a friend&#x27;s birthday party... so that&#x27;s not going to happen again for another year.<p>Facebook has been a godsend, because it&#x27;s basically the only way I talk to most people anymore. Through Facebook, I can stay in touch with a bunch of people who I wouldn&#x27;t have the opportunity to see in real life. I have a ton of friends I get along with really well but for various reasons none of us are able to get together in real life, so Facebook it is.<p>It doesn&#x27;t help that I have no interest in getting married or having children. In fact, the idea of either sickens me. So as everybody else is pairing off to get married or spending 99% of their free time taking care of kids, I&#x27;m stuck by myself. I just wish I had more single (and preferably asexual) friends to hang with.<p>I actively hate being in my 30s. I wish I was in college again, because I really miss the vibrant social life I had back then.
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poisonarenaabout 7 years ago
this is something I see once a month on HN but is always relevant to me
LifeLiverTranspabout 7 years ago
Its usually the way we train ourselves to behave in work environments. Spontanity only gets you into trouble. Nobody can be really trusted, everything better be documented. Work kills the ability to make friends, because you see how all those former &quot;friends&quot; crawl over each other to backstab one another and get to the top of the pile.
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jamesrcoleabout 7 years ago
[Edit: to all the people downvoting this, care to explain why you find it objectionable? The article is trying to explain a phenomenon and it completely ignores the existence of certain kinds of factors that may have an explanatory role. It doesn&#x27;t even mention them, even to disagree with them. Do think that&#x27;s not problematic?]<p>I find it disappointing when articles like this don&#x27;t even consider biological, evolutionary factors that could play a role.
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