I manage software development teams. I spend my days in video meetings, writing emails, reviewing code (sometimes writing it on side projects to keep current) and writing documents. I type 120 WPM and live and die by my keyboard. Most of the time I am using an external keyboard but when I travel or work flexibly away from my house, it's all on the butterfly keyboard. After a year, several keys were useless, - enter ;, j and e. They would stick and repeat the character too much, or not recognize a hit at all. Like a good Apple fan boy I always purchase Apple care so I was able to send it in for repair but being without a machine for three days was a non-starter. So, I ordered a Lenovo T480S, installed Linux and prepared an environment for when my MBP 2016 touchbar unit went back to Apple. My MBP has been back from Apple for two months now and I have yet to boot it.... The keyboard on this Lenovo is ridiculously great-- it's amazing to be able to work again :) And, its not just me we've had 4 MBP Touchbar retinas have keys fail around the 9mos to 1yr mark. One 3 of them, Apple gave us grief as if it was standard "wear and tear." Uh, ya, these $4K aluminum rigs are going to be around dust, and humans have hair ... and... well its on you to make a more resilient key switch Apple... As for me, sticking with Lenovo box from here on out.
At the start of the year I bought a full spec 15" MBP. Two weeks in the B key stopped working so I took it to the Apple Store and they literally gave me a brand new one. Why did the B key stop working? Apparently it was a crumb. So I had a total system replacement of a £3000 laptop because of a crumb. Insane. Yes I know the broken one will be repaired and re-sold as a refurb but still that is just crazy.<p>I ended up returning the MBP for a refund anyway as I really didn't enjoy the new butterfly keyboard. I found it quite painful to type on for more than about 20 minutes.<p>I strongly feel the latest generation MBP is a step backwards in what a "professional" wants and needs from such a machine. Sure make the consumer MacBook model as thin as possible but don't butcher the Pro model to save 0.2mm by introducing a god awful keyboard and removing a bunch of crucial ports so we have to rely on bloody dongles!<p>Ninja Edit: Forgot to mention how much I hated the TouchBar. What sucks is the actual <i>idea</i> of the touchbar is pretty nice but replacing the function keys with it on a Pro machine is idiotic. They could have easily added the touchbar while keeping the function keys but decided not to probably to be minimal/simple.
I've got no idea why the new macbook is the way it is. Apple really missed a sweet opportunity to move the mac and iphone over to usb-c at the same time. They could have easily added two usb-c ports while keeping a usb-a port and the SD card reader. At the same time, they could have moved the iphone to usb-c and converge a lot of their designs into something clean and easy. I'm typing this on an xps-13 while charging both my phone and laptop over usb-c with the same charger and cable.<p>Instead, apple now has multiple incompatible cables and devices. Not only has the rest of the industry caught up to them, apple has regressed in the meantime.
I love how Apple is finally shooting itself in the foot by the atrocious repairability of their devices. The keyboard in the A1706/7/8 MBP is <i>extremely</i> time-consuming to replace because you need to get your dremel tool out and undo an umpteen of tiny bolts and then replace them with tiny screws as this video demonstrates: <a href="https://youtu.be/YMueATtTcQg?t=879" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/YMueATtTcQg?t=879</a><p>In previous models, you could at least simply rip the keyboard out like this (which was of course an imposition as well): <a href="https://youtu.be/2PyhbiwUkE0?t=1229" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/2PyhbiwUkE0?t=1229</a><p>Imagine if the keyboard was simply screwed on in the first place. The keyboard plate would maybe need to be 1 mm thicker, making the entire device thicker by as much, but an AASP worker could simply replace the thing in a 5 minute job (instead of 2 hours, i.e. never).<p>PS: Could someone vouch me. HN thinks I'm a bot.
Being design-forward is fine, but Apple fell completely into the trap of "function follows form". The in retrospect aptly-shaped "trashcan" Mac Pro was probably the ultimate expression of this. But at this point they're not a computer company, so the products need to be viewed in this light. They've decided to be a luxury brand, in which form is in fact more important than function, and the correctness of this decision is shown by their financials. But when you buy a Macbook Pro, you have to be aware that you're essentially buying a Louis Vuitton, or - dare I say it? - Burberry laptop. It's meant to be seen, not used.
Anyone know what this means for non-US residents? We're in Canada and my partners 12" Macbook keyboard has failed 3 times, requiring the complete replacement of her Macbook once and the whole top-case twice. Which caused plenty of downtime for repairs, usually weeks at a time. Now she's experiencing small problems for the 4th time.<p>Maybe if it succeeds someone can create a class-action in Canadian courts...
Apple is in a bad spot. The new MacBook Pro isn’t enough better than the old one, and is demonstrably worse in several ways.<p>I’ve bought very “tock” generation of MBP for a dozen years but I’m skipping this one. I just don’t need the extra horsepower or the extra headaches.
I wish there is something as World Wide Class Action.<p>The biggest problem isn't with the design issues here. Apple is not perfect, every new design will come with its own set of problem and trade offs. Normally most of these are Net positive gain. This time around I am pretty sure the Keyboard is mostly a step backwards, because reliability is the most important thing for a Keyboard.<p>And what is worst is that people has been complaining about it since 2015, and in 2016, then 2017, two version later they still haven't done a thing, apart from making the keyboard louder to make you think you pressed the button.<p>There is still a lot to love for the iPhone. ( Even that is going downhill, but still loveable ) But Mac has been on the sideline with no attention and care.<p>I would beg Tim Cook please do not come out and say you Love or you care about the Mac. You are no Steve Jobs and do not have Reality Distortion Field. When you say something like you you are only really taking a piss and add insult to injury.<p>And last note: Please prove me wrong in WWDC 2018.
Great. Hopefully this will force/cause them to reevaluate the butterfly keyboards and get back to a more sensible design.<p>Or if they really have to keep those (imo) awful keyboards, I feel like they could at least offer more clicky/soft/silent keyboards as an option.
The fact that the keys occasionally stop working is a problem.<p>The bigger problem is that this can't be fixed in stores, and it takes 13 days to get your computer back once you ship it to Apple.
Two keys are failing on my MBP 15" (one rocks and sticks; the other is loose on one corner and occasionally falls out). I have AppleCare and my options were to:<p>- Send or deliver the laptop for repair and wait ~1-2 weeks for its return.<p>- Pay ~$35 for two replacement keys and butterfly mechanisms from an online spares shop and attempt the repair myself.<p>I chose to pay the $35 — the keys should be here next week.<p>I'm now concerned this will recur after the fix unless I only use an external keyboard, which seems daft for a laptop.<p>After 15+ years of buying Apple laptops I'm seriously considering making the repair myself then selling the laptop, and buying a Lenovo or Dell. I type 100wpm+ and good keyboards are so important, but I'd really miss several macOS-specific apps (Sketch, iTerm, Airmail).
I manage a team of roughly 10 devs and I have seen them one at a time get pissed off at their MB Pro and ask to switch to using a Linux machine. The keyboard is always the biggest complaint. I even made our company change its onboarding process to offer the option of buying a Windows laptop and installing some distro of Linux on it instead of just giving everyone a Mac (which they and the rest of Silicon Valley have been doing for years).<p>I bought my first Thinkpad when I checked out the new MB Pros when they came out in Fall of ‘16. I was so disgusted by the keyboard that I went home and bought my X1 Carbon and learned how to set up a Linux machine (surprisingly easy!)<p>Apple has really lost its way. They’re selling eye candy now, not work machines.
Apple is a joke. My experience with Dell XPS 13:<p>Keyboard failed, most likely some dirt or liquid. I was in foreign country so bad situation. Dell technician arrived next day to my hotel and changed keyboard in front of me. They even got correct keyboard layout (czech). This was done as part of basic 2 year warranty, I have no business plan.
I'm on my second 13" MBP, after this exact problem. The first one had this problem pretty severely on the 'n' key, the new one has it on 'j' but not as bad.<p>Anyway, this helps prevent the accidental double taps on the bad keys:
<a href="https://github.com/toothbrush/debounce-mac" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/toothbrush/debounce-mac</a>
I had to pay ~$700 for a repair of my work MacBook Pro 15" because I tried to fix the problem by removing the key cap and cleaning under it.<p>My current work computer is old MacBook Pro. My personal one is Dell XPS 13" and if nothing happens to their design, my next work computer likely will be Dell Precision 15".
Apple filed a patent for ingress prevention this year to address this issue. Not sure when it will make it into production:
<a href="https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180068808A1/en" rel="nofollow">https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180068808A1/en</a>
I have several keys that randomly type twice, I hate it. Went through the tech support and at the end they wanted me to reinstall the OS.<p>But that is pretty much nonsense, as when I hit the key in a different place, it reacts differently.
I upgrade my two macbook pro 15" every year. I have not upgraded since 2015 due to these keyboards. Come on apple. Go back to the 2015 keyboard... nobody ever complained about that keyboard. This is the risk of "fixing" a problem that doesn't exist... you can actually break something that was reliable.
I have come to appreciate the new keyboard, primarily because the keys feel more stable under fingers than the older keyboards. The shorter travel doesn't bother me, though the additional noise is slightly annoying and the arrow key layout is sub-par. But, on the whole, the keyboard is fine. I've only had mine for three months, so it remains to be seen how it holds up.<p>It's the other parts of the MBP design that suck: USB-C induced dongle hell is real. The touchbar is a useless gimmick. Battery life isn't great.
If anyone working at Apple is reading this, know that this keyboard has cost you two laptop purchases from me alone.<p>At work I still use a 15" MBP from four years ago. I would have happily updated by now (if nothing else, because the anti-glare coating peeled off in the center of the screen); instead, I'm going to keep it until you abandon the butterfly keyboard.<p>And for my personal machine, I have an even older 13" laptop. I was going to buy a 13" MBP, but I won't buy anything that has that butterfly keyboard.
If the average resolution is at least one $700 keyboard replacement plus 1-2 weeks (and they really should calculate a dollar amount for lost time), this ought to be massive. Yet, like many class actions, this will probably end handing out $3 checks or some other insulting amount.<p>What we really need to hope is that they’ve been working on a redesign or reverted design for awhile, as these things take years.
When it works, the butterfly is great. Feels a lot better than older MBP keyboards. However, it does have frequent issues. If Apple can fix that while keeping the feeling of typing, it would be great.
Thank god I bought the 2015. Not sure how long to hold out to buy a laptop for my wife. She's a graphics artist and is really really really tired of using Windows.
Hey Apple...please prioritize robustness over thinness...I don’t care if my laptop is super thin and has keys that only have to travel .00000003 millimeters if the thing isn’t going to work after a dust particle falls on it.
My B, and Up/Down Arrow keys were either hard to press or would “double” events. I now have a compressed air bottle next to my desk. It seems to do its job but I never had to do this with my previous MacBooks!<p>Another issue I face is pain in my first finger joints (right below the fingernail bed) after a long day of typing. Maybe I just have heavy fingers but the old softer keys were less harsh.<p>Another unrelated (we’ll it is like a keyboard, right? :) issue is the TouchBar requiring two taps for most things. I even have my TouchBar as “static” with just a few buttons.
The "debris gumming up the keys" issue with the MacBook butterfly keyboard is certainly annoying. But there's a pretty easy fix in my experience: a few strategically delivered bursts from an air duster will clean them out nicely.<p>Apple even provides a guide on how to do it:
<a href="https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT205662" rel="nofollow">https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT205662</a>
The worst part for me is the sound, the noise is so much more irritating than other keyboards for some reason. I think perhaps because of the higher pitch.
I've got 15" 2017 and for me the keyboard is not the biggest problem; rather it's the integrated graphics.<p>Intel HD 630 is so bad that I can spot the lag during scroll in Safari. I switched to Radeon by turning on Photos.app(yes, if you ran Photos it would switch to discrete graphics).<p>I just can't grasp why the 13" has better integrated graphics than 15".
I haven't had a key fail on my 2017 yet, but the keys are all over the place in terms of how they feel. The delete key works but feels like not actuating properly. The spacebar is awful.
I cuently have tree keys acting up. It's a pain in the ass and as much as I've loved Apple poducts fo almost 3 years, I'm eady to give them the old eave o.<p>Translation: I currently have three keys acting up. It's a pain in the ass and as much as I've loved Apple products for almost 30 years, I'm ready to give them the old heave ho.
I've had the keyboard replaced twice for the exact same issue, the "B" key kept repeating. I'll probably have to pay extra if it happens again, but already you I've lost about days waiting on the repair since they have to ship it out.<p>I prefer to use an external keyboard when I can, but that can't be avoided all the time.
Had also one key which was registered as two key strokes every fifth to tenth time. Super annoying and the solution was strange: after vacuum cleaning and blowing the keyboard many times the only thing that helped was resetting the NVRAM with Command + Option + P + R.
I love the butterfly keyboard and one of the key did get stuck and since then I started using compressed air once a week and it looks good so far after an year. So I would suggest the same for others and refrain from eating around your keyboard as much as possible.
I spend a lot of time in the tropics (Thailand) and my keyboard gets stuck keys all the time. It's currently my single quote key. I have tried massaging it, smacking it, faith healing, etc. Nothing helps.
I have a 2015 Macbook Pro and Im sort of anxious because if it breaks, I really don't want to get a butterfly keyboard one. Is there any idea when they will release a successor?
I’ve hated that keyboard with the fiery passion of a thousand suns since the first time I used it and it kept getting worse with every stuck key - one of several reasons why the 12” MB is a “Bimbo” model that looks pretty and works like crap - but the idea of fixing this via lawsuit seems like a bad precedent. Their design sucks and the whole world needs to know how terrible it is but using lawsuits in this way for what ultimately comes down to a product just being kind of crappy seems innovation stifling. Give permission to make crappy things and let the market penalize you for it.
Apple has lots of cash, The vultures(lawyers) who like class action lawsuits will endless look for and try to find a case against Apple so they can extract a lot of money and line their pockets.
I don't understand why this deserves a class action lawsuit. Sure, it's not a great design, but is it bad enough to sue over? All companies release flawed products all the time
Sure, the new keyboard is polarizing. I personally love it, but I get why others hate it.<p>But nobody seems to be mentioning that the <i>old</i> Macbook keyboards failed too, collected dust and debris just as much (in my personal experience). Probably once a month I'd have to pry off a keycap, blow below, and snap the keycap back on. Half the time it would be the space bar.<p>Now it's the same thing, except you use a can of compressed air instead [1]. Which I have to do, again, probably once a month. Yes it seems dumb to have to buy one (and it's not like they warn you in advance), but on the other hand, I'm no longer worried about breaking the mechanism when snapping on/off.<p>[1] <a href="https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662" rel="nofollow">https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662</a>