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Ask HN: Amazon software engineers, how is the work culture now?

284 pointsby tinderlikerabout 7 years ago
Was there any change from the time New York Times article was published? And does the pay + stock compensate for the bad work culture (if there is?)

30 comments

anonazon123about 7 years ago
No change since the NYT article.<p>Amazon only changes things when it has to, and only in a lip-service kind of way. There was a flurry of discussion and proposals when the article was published, but it&#x27;s all died down and we&#x27;re back to where we were beforehand.<p>Compensation, culture, and perks are infinitely better at Google, Facebook, Lyft, Uber, etc. All of them start vesting your stock monthly after 1 year, whereas Amazon has a ridiculous vesting schedule (5% after year 1, 15% after year 2, 20% every 6 months thereafter). Not to mention the awful 401k matching, no free food&#x2F;drinks, terrible drab offices, etc. All in the name of &quot;frugality.&quot; Leadership claims that our competitors waste their money on these things, despite all of them being insanely profitable with higher employee happiness and retention.<p>I&#x27;m working on moving to one of the above competitors now. I recommend avoiding Amazon, even if the role you&#x27;ve been offered sounds cool.
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frmramznabout 7 years ago
Moved to Google and TBH have cried once or twice because I didn&#x27;t realize an employer could be so humane. Amazon was terrifying, but the academic culture I came from normalized self brutalization to succeed,so I didn&#x27;t realize how much they were relying on my lack of a sense of boundaries and personal priorities to extract excess labor.
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mterabout 7 years ago
I work under 40 hours a week with no pressure to work more, I get along with my coworkers and look forward to going to work in the morning. I have worked a crunch time that was pretty terrible, but that was a once off. It&#x27;s been almost 2 years since my last crunch time.<p>The comp is decent. It doesn&#x27;t match google&#x2F;fb but it&#x27;s better than a non tech company. I have a target of ~170 total comp as an SDE II with just under 4 years of experience out of college. This is my last year of my initial stock grant so my take home is quite a bit over 170.<p>I&#x27;ve never seen anyone cry at work. Closest was a guy that got pip&#x27;d, but he was genuinely struggling. I can&#x2F;could see glimmers of truth in the NYT article but I&#x27;ve never seen it that bad. That said, I am aware that tech (SDEs in particular) tend to be treated a bit better than everyone else.
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jamdamuabout 7 years ago
Amazon has taken steps to prevent abusive behavior from occurring, such as creating a process for engineers to challenge managerial pips and allowing engineers to transfer while on development plans. In my opinion, these steps seem more like treating the symptom than the cause. The overall culture remains the same. Engineers are still treated by management as resources to be allocated, and for me, this is the hardest pill to swallow. Even though my manager, my skip, and my peers tell me I do good work, at the end of the day, I feel that all I am is X capacity points per sprint. The feeling of being disposable in the huge machine that is Amazon is quite depressing.
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mproustabout 7 years ago
I was at Amazon for 8 years, left in January of this year. VP I worked for routinely belittled very senior engineers, made some of them cry&#x2F;move teams&#x2F;quit. The VP was never disciplined or had his scope reduced.<p>Had projects cancelled on a whim without an actual replacement&#x2F;reason.<p>At Amazon, I wasn&#x27;t a person, but some resource.<p>Some orgs were fine, most are not.<p>A manager from a &quot;no jerk policy&quot; org told me there is a culture of cruelty in Amazon management, and if he played the game he would have been at a higher level.<p>ymmv.
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ujiabout 7 years ago
Worked in an AWS team, and the biggest issue was constant fire-fighting and oncall&#x2F;operational load. Code quality is really bad across all teams in AWS due to constant prioritization of features over stability. We use to get 20 pages a day, and it was very common to get 2-3 pages in the middle of night. It was horrible and yet management didn&#x27;t pay much attention on fixing it. At the end devs starting leaving the team one by one. Recently I heard that the team hired twice the number of devs to reduce frequency of oncall rotation.
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BigTex420about 7 years ago
Out of the 6 coworkers I’m close with, I’ve seen every single one of them cry for work related reasons at least once over the past year. Peak is hell.
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amzn12124about 7 years ago
We lost &quot;anytime feedback&quot; and end of year reviews changed dramatically. This is a horrible loss.<p>Previously, the anytime feedback tool had you, at any time, give anyone else in the company feedback (positive and negative) in the form of &quot;Situation, Behavior, Impact&quot;. What happened, how did the person react, how did it impact me. It went to the person&#x27;s manager and into a record somewhere. At the end of every year, you were asked to give additional anytime feedback to you entire team and anyone who asked for it. Managers read through all that feedback, summarized and gave you a full year end review that was the source of a lot of my personal growth.<p>The NYT referred to this as &quot;ratting out your coworkers&quot;, so now that&#x27;s gone.<p>Instead, there&#x27;s a short, stupid and less-than-anonymous version that takes about 5 minutes and is done just once per year. Your manager doesn&#x27;t read any of that feedback before they give you your year end review and pay changes, but they do give you a verbatim copy of what was said- you can figure out who said what pretty easily.<p>The problem was that 1% of the managers were sociopaths who abused their power. The response was to increase their power.<p>But I&#x27;m still here, for some reason.<p>Edit: no, let&#x27;s be fair here. I&#x27;m still here because I like what I do. I like the problem space, and I like the people I work with.
cm2012about 7 years ago
The talk here about sticking at a job that makes you cry, when you have in demand skills and can work anywhere, is nuts to me.
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jkingsberyabout 7 years ago
I&#x27;m a Senior Software Engineer, and have been at Amazon for almost 2 years. I work in the Retail org in the NYC office.<p>Overall, I&#x27;ve been happy with my choice to work at Amazon. Compared to most other tech companies I&#x27;ve worked for, the hours are predictable and not that intense. Of course, a lot is asked of engineers during crunch time, but that&#x27;s the same way everywhere in the industry. I like what I do. I like the projects I work on. I like my coworkers. I&#x27;m happy with my compensation.<p>In terms of perks, there aren&#x27;t free lunches every day, but most orgs that I know of have some budget for a snack shelf. There are also other perks though - there are are opportunities to learn from other software engineers in the form of tech talks, internal conferences and the like. There are also opportunities to learn about the business side as an engineer.<p>I&#x27;ve generally found other people at Amazon very willing to help. I&#x27;ve had people outside of my team review designs and give feedback (and I&#x27;ve done likewise for other teams). I&#x27;m currently working on a project that&#x27;s required me to reach out to a bunch of different teams to get input on how to approach a problem, and all of them have either accepted a meeting invite or responded to my email with the info I was looking for in a reasonable amount of time (a couple days).<p>Amazon has 14 Leadership Principles, and I&#x27;ve found that people mostly take them to heart. For example, it doesn&#x27;t mean that you can use &quot;Insisting on the Highest Standards&quot; as a blank check to refactor your code to the point that it&#x27;s immaculate, but it does mean that most of the product people I work with get that tech debt is a real thing and slows down product development at some point, and they will budget time to address tech debt when given suggestions by engineers.<p>Most of the people who have left our team in the past 12 months have left to go work on other teams. Some of them left to work for a different org, some because they wanted to work in a different office.<p>Amazon&#x27;s not perfect, but it&#x27;s pretty good, and most of the things that are frequently raised as issues on HackerNews are, in my experience and the experience of everyone I&#x27;ve talked to at Amazon, generally not issues.
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leoharsha2about 7 years ago
I interned at Amazon a 11 months ago at Hyderabad, India. I used to go to the office at 1PM and return home at 2AM. So much work pressure. They literally treated as a robots. Yes, we did work as a robot because they lure us by offering PPO( Pre- placement offer).<p>They used to give us a weekly task which was never supposed to complete if you work even for 60 hours&#x2F;week. Thus our whole weekend was ruined in completing this task.<p>I have got a mentor who himself can&#x27;t able to complete the given task so he gives his some of his work to interns.<p>Amazon is a great place to learn but not for the work.
akerroabout 7 years ago
New entries are still being added, so probably great <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sites.google.com&#x2F;site&#x2F;thefaceofamazon&#x2F;home" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sites.google.com&#x2F;site&#x2F;thefaceofamazon&#x2F;home</a>
apexkidabout 7 years ago
Nothing has changed.<p>I have worked in Amazon for many years now in India. Jeff himself doesn&#x27;t seem interested in taking work culture seriously. I have never seen any interviews of him after NYC article where he accepted that something was going wrong and needs to be fixed. Instead he turned the whole debate into work-life harmony rhetoric.<p>In India, the situation is far worse than US. There is less transparency and more opportunities by senior leadership to rule with an iron fist without any accountability. Concerns are suppressed instantly. One might have been an excellent employee for couple of years but for some reason if you are not on top of your game for even a quarter, you will start hearing complains from everyone and the situation can go upto PIP (Performance Improvement). The culture completely lacks the emotion of &quot;Let me help you&quot;. It is heavily influenced by politics and survival of the fittest which might be fine for a small period but takes a toll on you in long term. Probably this explains why attrition is so high in Amazon.
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ssalazarsabout 7 years ago
1. It depends on the company (Amazon vs AWS) and it varies from org to org, and team to team. Just like in every place there&#x27;s going to be great and crapy people. In 3 years at Amazon I had the opportunity to work next to great people, but also with people at the complete opposite side.<p>2. In my case, it did not. I decided my happiness&#x2F;wellness and health (physical and mental) were more important.
thelastidiotabout 7 years ago
Ex-Amazonian here (for real). Put up with almost 4 years of what I would now consider some serious sweatshop practices from my managers (had a few in that time lapse), for not much at the end but it felt good to leave the place. After that, I took two months off to recover from stress and work exhaustion. Work only, no life. Crunch mode was a daily pill. The mission sounded cool and staying that long because it felt that we were helping each other in a prison camp with my team. Frugality is a joke, because top execs will get rewarded. I would never consider this company again and never will recommend anyone to work there.
throwaway243424about 7 years ago
Joined Amazon Dublin in the Summer of last year as SDE2 (that&#x27;s the category where most engineers will fall into), so way after the NYT article. Pay is very good for Europe - AFAIK one of the best for the position and above G&#x2F;F&#x2F;MS in Dublin (according to Glassdoor), though I think that at the end of the day you might take more home if you&#x27;re working for G&#x2F;F and living in London&#x2F;Switzerland (due to lower taxes).<p>As for the work environment, like in all big companies, it really depends in which team and project you land. My team and adjacent teams are full of respectful people and work is pretty good. We&#x27;re building some &quot;large scale&quot; systems, and technology wise it&#x27;s pretty cool. But I&#x27;ve heard stories from people in other teams where they were relegated to doing oncall and fixing bugs. I also know 1 person that didn&#x27;t make it through the probation period (he was in one of those oncall teams). The company is big and has a lot of different projects, so YM(will definitely)V. I&#x27;ve had to interact with a lot of different people across the company and my impression is overall positive.<p>In terms of work load, it&#x27;s not light. At the same time, right now, it&#x27;s not that high, but that will probably change once we&#x27;re closer to the deadlines. I enjoy it, it keeps me active and not bored at work. I know people who do 8-17 (1 lunch hour) EVERY DAY. Pretty much everyone around me works 8-9 hours. The teams around me are also very flexible with remote work (a lot of us work remotely 1-2 days a week). In term of the actual work, me and my team have had to design systems, write documents (the 6 pagers, design reviews, etc), and we&#x27;re implementing them. A lot of technical freedom. I also hear manager refer to people as resources and I dislike it - not sure why&#x2F;where that terminology comes from, but I think it&#x27;s something common inside and outside the company.<p>Yes, perks are pretty much non-existent. No snacks, no free lunch&#x2F;dinner, no gym, just water, fruit, and coffee. Heck, not even free tshirts and the employee discount is ridiculous. But if that&#x27;s what you&#x27;re looking for in a company, then I&#x27;m sorry, you won&#x27;t find it here. Yes, you&#x27;ll also get stack ranked at the beginning of the year, and getting promoted to SDE3 is not easy.<p>One interesting thing, at least around me, the vast majority of people seems to be 30+ old. From the teams around me, I think no one (apart from me) reads HN. People come from all around Europe (and some from Asia).
gregdunnabout 7 years ago
I&#x27;ve been with Amazon for coming up on 5 years.<p>I love it here, and have for the entirety of the time I&#x27;ve been here. There are some minor changes I would make if I could wave a magic wand, but I can&#x27;t imagine any workplace is perfect, and when I say minor, I really mean it.<p>I don&#x27;t really have a lot to say about things as they relate to the New York Times article, because the workplace described in said article was never even remotely close to the experiences I&#x27;ve had.<p>I work on a fantastic team, and I work with some amazing teams. Some of the smartest people I&#x27;ve ever met. I don&#x27;t see myself leaving the company any time soon.
user68858788about 7 years ago
Twelve managers in three years. Quality of life changes dramatically depending on who you get. Left after being put on a PIP - stack ranking in action. Not worth trying to fight it with that particular manager.
kevanabout 7 years ago
I joined in mid-2016, My team is in a pretty good spot now.
wizardofmysoreabout 7 years ago
In my team and all the orgs under my manager&#x27;s manager is pretty chill. We are a team out of India. In India the comp is really high compared to other Indian companies. The vesting cycle is same as US though. I have heard about the bad culture in US. I have never seen anyone cry or even stressed. We don&#x27;t have many crunch days.
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tmalyabout 7 years ago
I am curious outside of the other companies of FANG, does Amazon represent median representation of workplace culture or are they an outlier?<p>I have not worked at Amazon, but I have seen worse types of workplace culture in some cases over my career.
pontianakabout 7 years ago
I joined fresh out of college about a year back, no one respects your gender identity and everyone almost always purposefully refuses to use the correct pronouns
alehulabout 7 years ago
Could anyone here comment on Amazon Robotics? What would I expect as a SWE working there? Is it different (better&#x2F;worse) than Amazon as a whole?
exBarrelSpoilerabout 7 years ago
Anyone who&#x27;s worked at both Amazon and Apple want to compare the two?
lazypandaabout 7 years ago
depends on team
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dewizabout 7 years ago
Check this out <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.teamblind.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;Amazon---is-it-really-that-bad-to-work-for-OApSnQ7V" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.teamblind.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;Amazon---is-it-really-that...</a><p>and more topics on the same site
alaguabout 7 years ago
Can someone share the mentioned NYT Article mentioned?
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sadamzninternabout 7 years ago
I interned at Amazon last year in the Alexa org (non-frontline team in ML).<p>My team was rarely in the office before 10:30 or after 6, even during crunch time (we launched our feature during my internship) but i did see code review responses at odd hours sometimes.<p>I enjoyed the project a bunch, and while my coworkers werent the most social bunch they were pretty smart and effective. I did pretty well and exceeded managers expectations for my project to get a return offer.<p>I shopped around a bunch after and interviewed at all the companies I could but got rejected by all of the top ones (FB after phone, Google after onsite, Airbnb and Cruise after coding challenge..) so I ultimately picked the return offer despite getting a 3 other offers in the fintech space because I liked the project and location at Amazon.<p>Does that mean I’m a happy camper? Fuck no. My total comp for the first year is only $145k out of undergrad with a base of $106k. My friends at places like Google, FB and Cruise are making more like $180k-$230k by comparison. Perks are also nonexistent.<p>The worst part, though, is knowing that i have become stuck in a company with a significantly lower hiring bar. Im honestly terrified that the value on the resume will decline over time and i will never be able to get into a more prestigious company. The idea of being relegated to a 2nd or third tier company has been eating at me, and comments on places like CSCQ, Blind and this AskHN nearly drove me to suicide before.
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sadamzninternabout 7 years ago
I couldnt get into any of the companies you mentioned and picked Amazon as a last resort. What should I do now? Ive contemplated suicide but i dont know if thats a wise choice.
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codeonfireabout 7 years ago
Thanks to linked in, I saw who was on a 1st level connection with the ex-director there who was arrested for running ads for prostitutes in Bellevue. Those 1st level contacts are still there and in higher positions now. Being 1st level on linkedin doesn&#x27;t mean they are the same character or were part of the crime, but they are all in management positions. I emailed some women that still worked there and told them they should leave.
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