TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

John Carmack: My Steve Jobs Stories

1075 pointsby _mlxlabout 7 years ago

29 comments

Arjunaabout 7 years ago
John mentioning his NeXT computer in this post reminded me of his NeXT computer purchase story from <i>Masters of Doom</i>:<p>&quot;On a cold winter day, Carmack laced up his shoes, slipped on his jacket, and headed out into the Madison snow. The town was blanketed in the stuff, cars caked in frost, trees dangling ice. Carmack endured the chill because he had no car; he&#x27;d sold the MGB long before. It was easy enough for him to shut out the weather, just like he could, when necessary, shut Tom and Romero&#x27;s antics out of his mind. He was on a mission.<p>Carmack stepped into the local bank and requested a cashier&#x27;s check for $11,000. The money was for a NeXT computer, the latest machine from Steve Jobs, cocreator of Apple. The NeXT, a stealth black cube, surpassed the promise of Jobs&#x27;s earlier machines by incorporating NeXTSTEP, a powerful system tailor-made for custom software development. The market for PCs and games was exploding, and this was the perfect tool to create more dynamic titles for the increasingly viable gaming platform. It was the ultimate Christmas present for the ultimate in young graphics programmers, Carmack.&quot;
评论 #17068005 未加载
评论 #17070929 未加载
评论 #17070690 未加载
评论 #17069367 未加载
评论 #17069507 未加载
uptownabout 7 years ago
&quot;I did think it was cool to trade a few emails with Steve Jobs.&quot;<p>Funny he should write that. Many, many years ago I wrote an email to John Carmack asking something about his .plan postings which must have seemed fairly mundane looking back on it now. He was nice enough to write me back. And I thought that was pretty cool too.<p>I guess it just goes to show that even the people you respect or admire have people they respect and admire themselves.
评论 #17067487 未加载
评论 #17069930 未加载
评论 #17069109 未加载
评论 #17069400 未加载
评论 #17067333 未加载
评论 #17068257 未加载
评论 #17067784 未加载
评论 #17068415 未加载
评论 #17068460 未加载
评论 #17068436 未加载
评论 #17071254 未加载
评论 #17068504 未加载
评论 #17069235 未加载
pweissbrodabout 7 years ago
Rapid switch between charming and aggressive. Creating an environment where you surround yourself with sycophants. Punch downwards at employees working for you to assert and maintain your power while projecting you aspire for &quot;higher standards&quot;. Set unrealistic expectations to see which folks will work nights and weekends to your order.<p>^^ Managers take note. These are excellent traits to climbing the corporate ladder. Just be a dick without looking like a dick.
评论 #17067609 未加载
评论 #17068036 未加载
评论 #17067855 未加载
评论 #17067668 未加载
评论 #17072077 未加载
评论 #17068981 未加载
评论 #17070910 未加载
Rainymoodabout 7 years ago
Honestly, I think this is what it&#x27;s like to be in an abusive relationship. You <i>know</i> he&#x27;s abusive and yet you still stay in the relationship with him&#x2F;her because of all the good times and you delude yourself into thinking that&#x27;s OK ... I think this gives a rarely glimpse into the rationalizations that happen in the mind of people that are in abusive relationships. From the outside it is trivial to see that the relationship dynamic is abusive but when you&#x27;re in it ... suddenly it&#x27;s OK even for one of the most renowned programmers of all time?
评论 #17072558 未加载
评论 #17072096 未加载
评论 #17072023 未加载
DonHopkinsabout 7 years ago
On October 25 1988, I gave Steve Jobs a demo of pie menus, NeWS, UniPress Emacs and HyperTIES at the Educom conference in Washington DC. His reaction was to jump up and down, point at the screen, and yell “That sucks! That sucks! Wow, that’s neat! That sucks!”<p>I tried explaining how we&#x27;d performed an experiment proving pie menus were faster than linear menus [1], but he insisted the liner menus in NeXT Step were the best possible menus ever.<p>But who was I to rain on his parade, two weeks after the first release of NeXT Step 0.8? (Up to that time, it was the most hyped piece of vaporware ever, and doubters were wearing t-shirts saying &quot;NeVR Step&quot;!)<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@donhopkins&#x2F;an-empirical-comparison-of-pie-vs-linear-menus-466c6fdbba4b" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@donhopkins&#x2F;an-empirical-comparison-of-pi...</a>
评论 #17070959 未加载
评论 #17098806 未加载
评论 #17071382 未加载
nimbiusabout 7 years ago
Im all for giving the dead their rest, but Steve was in my honest opinion more asshole than legend.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;cars&#x2F;2016&#x2F;07&#x2F;steve-jobs-loophole-closed-california-wants-temporary-license-plates&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;cars&#x2F;2016&#x2F;07&#x2F;steve-jobs-loophole-clo...</a><p>Registration funds important things like police, fire, and public education. Rolling around town as a tightwad billionaire who thinks hes too good to pay for public services is beyond the pale.
评论 #17067572 未加载
评论 #17067599 未加载
评论 #17067415 未加载
评论 #17067681 未加载
评论 #17072778 未加载
评论 #17067542 未加载
评论 #17069131 未加载
评论 #17072411 未加载
评论 #17071976 未加载
评论 #17067533 未加载
mellingabout 7 years ago
&quot;After the public cleared out and the rest of us were gathered in front of the stage, I started urgently going on about how web apps are terrible, and wouldn’t show the true potential of the device. We could do so much more with real native access!&quot;<p>Where was Carmack when everyone was forcing us to listen to &quot;web apps are the future of mobile&quot;?<p>He could have ended that HN debated instantly.
评论 #17067549 未加载
评论 #17067547 未加载
评论 #17067153 未加载
评论 #17067156 未加载
评论 #17067194 未加载
评论 #17068640 未加载
palisadeabout 7 years ago
This is a pretty touching story. John has definitely been one of my heroes for a long time in the field as has Steve. At the end of the day, they&#x27;re human. It sucks that he regrets not getting back in touch with Steve before his passing. We can&#x27;t turn back time unfortunately. I guess the lesson here is we can get focused on the hero worship and the little details and forget we are dealing with someone&#x27;s ego and feelings. Some constructive criticism from John and a declined phone call broke up their relationship. :(<p>Steve could be rough to work with but they obviously had respect for one another, so it is sad to see in the end there was some bad blood. At least John tried to get back in touch. I think the line at the end really says it all, &quot;...but elements of the path that led to where I am today were contingent on the dents he left in the universe. I showed up for him.&quot;<p>Edit: If you&#x27;re reading this John, thank you for all the gaming joy you&#x27;ve given the world over the years. I remember asking you programming questions and you were always responsive. You&#x27;ve left dents for others too.<p>Edit: Regarding the snide comment Steve made that you could write your own OS. He might have secretly feared you would. He knew you could.
remirabout 7 years ago
I think it&#x27;s weird how Apple, even to this day, took some of Jobs&#x27;s &quot;darker&quot; traits as if he still runs the place.<p>For example, a couple of years ago, I remember a game dev saying that they made one of the top selling game on iOS and received plenty of attention&#x2F;help from Apple&#x27;s engineers at WWDC, but when they made an Android version of their game, suddenly it was radio silence with Apple.<p>This is the kind of thing Jobs would have done, but now that he&#x27;s gone, I&#x27;m disappointed that Apple did not evolve past this kind of behavior.
评论 #17072423 未加载
dchichkovabout 7 years ago
The impact that John Carmack has on the industry is just ridiculous. Apple, NVIDIA, Facebook. As a teenage software engineer, <i>he</i> was a revered figure to me (and I wonder to how many others). I&#x27;ve had an opportunity to work with his source code for a few months - it was a thing of beauty. If you want to learn from him, read his source code and essays. They are full of brilliance.
ceronmanabout 7 years ago
A question from someone who has never seen a NeXT computer:<p>How is it possible that Doom was developed on NeXT?<p>As far as I know, Doom was first released for MS-DOS. Wouldn&#x27;t be really hard to develop a MS-DOS game from another operative system and another CPU architecture? Specially at the time without engines abstracting platform details?
评论 #17068973 未加载
评论 #17069232 未加载
评论 #17068769 未加载
评论 #17068615 未加载
评论 #17069500 未加载
评论 #17072333 未加载
loxsabout 7 years ago
Desktop (non mobile) link: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.facebook.com&#x2F;permalink.php?story_fbid=2146412825593223&amp;id=100006735798590" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.facebook.com&#x2F;permalink.php?story_fbid=2146412825...</a>
ksecabout 7 years ago
@John Carmack,<p>My biggest question is, why now? I mean what trigger you to post this &#x2F; share this pieces about Steve Jobs?<p>The reason I ask was because only a few week ago I posted a few comments about the state of Mac, Gaming on Mac and Gaming as iOS App Revenue. In the age of E-Sports and Gaming is the sole segment that is pushing &#x2F; slowing &#x2F; stopping the decline of PC sales, I wonder if Apple would take gaming a little more seriously, since Steve Jobs deleted all Gaming DNA in Apple once he returned from NeXT. And I said I wish John Carmack would comment a bit on Steve Jobs given he has been on Stage a few times in Keynote, and has surprisingly never shared any stories since he passed away.<p>But I think this confirms my suspicious<p>&gt;Several things over the years made me conclude that, at his core, Steve didn’t think very highly of games, and always wished they weren’t as important to his platforms as they turned out to be. I never took it personally.<p>And it is a little strange since Steve worked at Atari.
评论 #17075086 未加载
crussoabout 7 years ago
<i>The Steve Jobs &quot;hero &#x2F; shithead&quot; rollercoaster was real</i><p>That&#x27;s funny. I had a boss at Apple when I did some contracting there in 1999 who told me that Jobs asked him, &quot;You wanna be a hero?&quot; before giving him a project. My boss told me, &quot;Yep, one day you&#x27;re a hero, the next day you&#x27;re a shithead.&quot;
redmabout 7 years ago
I suppose its inevitable that we dissect the lives and actions of &quot;great&quot; people like Steve Jobs. The fact is that no one is perfect, and those who usually accomplish great things have fascinating lives and personality flaws. At the end of the day, you take the good with the bad, its a package deal, and call it Human.
macrosabout 7 years ago
Every time I see one of his posts on facebook.com I cringe and think wistfully about the .plan days.
sg0about 7 years ago
About &quot;reality distortion field&quot;: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.folklore.org&#x2F;StoryView.py?story=Reality_Distortion_Field.txt" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.folklore.org&#x2F;StoryView.py?story=Reality_Distorti...</a>
hwestiiiabout 7 years ago
This pretty much confirms my suspicion that Apple is|was not a company I&#x27;d ever want to work at. Making cool stuff might be cool, but I don&#x27;t want to sacrifice large chunks of my life for it.
r3voabout 7 years ago
It seems pretty likely to me that Steve Jobs was a high functioning sociopath. The line about how his demeanor changed dramatically when Carmack&#x27;s wife asked for a favor was indicative to me.<p>&quot;One time, my wife, then fiancée, and I were meeting with Steve at Apple, and he wanted me to do a keynote that happened to be scheduled on the same day as our wedding. With a big smile and full of charm, he suggested that we postpone it. We declined, but he kept pressing. Eventually my wife countered with a suggestion that if he really wanted “her” John so much, he should loan John Lassiter to her media company for a day of consulting. Steve went from full charm to ice cold really damn quick. I didn’t do that keynote.&quot;<p>I find sociopaths fascinating, but I would sure never want to work for one. It must take an incredible amount of calculation and self discipline to keep a semblance of normality for an incredibly high profile sociopath like Jobs.<p>On a side note, the late Pieter Hintjens of ZeroMQ wrote an excellent book about psychopaths available online for free here.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;legacy.gitbook.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;hintjens&#x2F;psychopathcode&#x2F;deta.." rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;legacy.gitbook.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;hintjens&#x2F;psychopathcode&#x2F;deta...</a>.<p>Also want to disclaim that I am not a psychiatrist and my opinion of Job&#x27;s sociopathy is only my speculation.
评论 #17069399 未加载
评论 #17069601 未加载
评论 #17069633 未加载
评论 #17070065 未加载
评论 #17069834 未加载
agumonkeyabout 7 years ago
I was just giving back the &quot;steve jobs&quot; manga biography (yes..). I know 90% of it but ... I still read the 200 pages. He&#x27;s such a special character for someone who grew up with nascent personal computer era.
xenadu02about 7 years ago
By all accounts (and I have no personal knowledge here) Steve could be a jerk, or at least very demanding. Steve was definitely successful.<p>Being a jerk != being successful!<p>Having a great product eye and good design sense are excellent traits to emulate. Having &quot;strong opinions, loosely held&quot; is another great trait to emulate. Being honest and direct when something isn&#x27;t good is also a great trait to emulate. Demanding people do their best is another great trait to emulate.<p>Being a jerk (at least under certain circumstances) is orthogonal and unrelated.<p>Unfortunately far too many people mistake correlation for causation and think being a demanding jerk is the key to success. First: you are no Steve Jobs. Second: that isn&#x27;t what made him successful.<p>(Being direct and brutally honest can also come off as being a jerk. We have lots of pressure to be positive &#x2F; supportive and avoid social conflict. It is always easier to say &quot;that&#x27;s great&quot; or &quot;nice job&quot; than give actual constructive feedback, especially when the recipients are likely to be defensive about it. It is critical for startups to avoid this and be brutally honest with themselves about the product!)
评论 #17069461 未加载
评论 #17070162 未加载
评论 #17069172 未加载
评论 #17069209 未加载
评论 #17070421 未加载
评论 #17070107 未加载
评论 #17069332 未加载
评论 #17070424 未加载
评论 #17070178 未加载
评论 #17069961 未加载
ProudNounDUzberabout 7 years ago
yep
AdmiralAsshatabout 7 years ago
Some great anecdotes in there.<p>As an aside, surely a person of Carmack&#x27;s stature and knowledge would have a dedicated blog. I have to wonder if his decision to post so many of these wonderful stories on Facebook might be due to some &quot;pressure&quot; from his employer.
评论 #17068101 未加载
评论 #17067295 未加载
评论 #17067357 未加载
评论 #17068003 未加载
评论 #17067274 未加载
评论 #17068728 未加载
jakearabout 7 years ago
For those who are unable&#x2F;unwilling to access Facebook:<p>John Carmack<p>Steve Jobs<p>My wife once asked me “Why do you drop what you are doing when Steve Jobs asks you to do something? You don’t do that for anyone else.”<p>It is worth thinking about.<p>As a teenage Apple computer fan, Jobs and Wozniak were revered figures for me, and wanting an Apple 2 was a defining characteristic of several years of my childhood. Later on, seeing NeXT at a computer show just as I was selling my first commercial software felt like a vision into the future. (But $10k+, yikes!)<p>As Id Software grew successful through Commander Keen and Wolfenstein 3D, the first major personal purchase I made wasn’t a car, but rather a NeXT computer. It turned out to be genuinely valuable for our software development, and we moved the entire company onto NeXT hardware.<p>We loved our NeXTs, and we wanted to launch Doom with an explicit “Developed on NeXT computers” logo during the startup process, but when we asked, the request was denied.<p>Some time after launch, when Doom had begun to make its cultural mark, we heard that Steve had changed his mind and would be happy to have NeXT branding on it, but that ship had sailed. I did think it was cool to trade a few emails with Steve Jobs.<p>Several things over the years made me conclude that, at his core, Steve didn’t think very highly of games, and always wished they weren’t as important to his platforms as they turned out to be. I never took it personally.<p>When NeXT managed to sort of reverse-acquire Apple and Steve was back in charge, I was excited by the possibilities of a resurgent Apple with the virtues of NeXT in a mainstream platform.<p>I was brought in to talk about the needs of games in general, but I made it my mission to get Apple to adopt OpenGL as their 3D graphics API. I had a lot of arguments with Steve.<p>Part of his method, at least with me, was to deride contemporary options and dare me to tell him differently. They might be pragmatic, but couldn’t actually be good. “I have Pixar. We will make something [an API] that is actually good.”<p>It was often frustrating, because he could talk, with complete confidence, about things he was just plain wrong about, like the price of memory for video cards and the amount of system bandwidth exploitable by the AltiVec extensions.<p>But when I knew what I was talking about, I would stand my ground against anyone.<p>When Steve did make up his mind, he was decisive about it. Dictates were made, companies were acquired, keynotes were scheduled, and the reality distortion field kicked in, making everything else that was previously considered into obviously terrible ideas.<p>I consider this one of the biggest indirect impacts on the industry that I have had. OpenGL never seriously threatened D3D on PC, but it was critical at Apple, and that meant that it remained enough of a going concern to be the clear choice when mobile devices started getting GPUs. While long in the tooth now, it was so much better than what we would have gotten if half a dozen SoC vendors rolled their own API back at the dawn of the mobile age.<p>I wound up doing several keynotes with Steve, and it was always a crazy fire drill with not enough time to do things right, and generally requiring heroic effort from many people to make it happen at all. I tend to think this was also a calculated part of his method.<p>My first impression of “Keynote Steve” was him berating the poor stage hands over “This Home Depot shit” that was rolling out the display stand with the new Mac, very much not to his satisfaction. His complaints had a valid point, and he improved the quality of the presentation by caring about details, but I wouldn’t have wanted to work for him in that capacity.<p>One time, my wife, then fiancé, and I were meeting with Steve at Apple, and he wanted me to do a keynote that happened to be scheduled on the same day as our wedding. With a big smile and full of charm, he suggested that we postpone it. We declined, but he kept pressing. Eventually my wife countered with a suggestion that if he really wanted “her” John so much, he should loan John Lassiter to her media company for a day of consulting. Steve went from full charm to ice cold really damn quick. I didn’t do that keynote.<p>When I was preparing an early technology demo of Doom 3 for a keynote in Japan, I was having a hard time dealing with some of the managers involved that were insisting that I change the demo because “Steve doesn’t like blood.” I knew that Doom 3 wasn’t to his taste, but that wasn’t the point of doing the demo.<p>I brought it to Steve, with all the relevant people on the thread. He replied to everyone with:<p>“I trust you John, do whatever you think is great.”<p>That goes a long way, and nobody said a thing after that.<p>When my wife and I later started building games for feature phones (DoomRPG! Orcs&amp;Elves!), I advocated repeatedly to Steve that an Apple phone could be really great. Every time there was a rumor that Apple might be working on a phone, I would refine the pitch to him. Once he called me at home on a Sunday (How did he even get my number?) to ask a question, and I enthused at length about the possibilities.<p>I never got brought into the fold, but I was excited when the iPhone actually did see the light of day. A giant (for the time) true color display with a GPU! We could do some amazing things with this!<p>Steve first talked about application development for iPhone at the some keynote I was demonstrating the new ID Tech 5 rendering engine on Mac, so I was in the front row. When he started going on about “Web Apps”, I was (reasonably quietly) going “Booo!!!”.<p>After the public cleared out and the rest of us were gathered in front of the stage, I started urgently going on about how web apps are terrible, and wouldn’t show the true potential of the device. We could do so much more with real native access!<p>Steve responded with a line he had used before: “Bad apps could bring down cell phone towers.” I hated that line. He could have just said “We aren’t ready”, and that would have been fine.<p>I was making some guesses, but I argued that the iPhone hardware and OS provided sufficient protection for native apps. I pointed at a nearby engineer and said “Don’t you have an MMU and process isolation on the iPhone now?” He had a wide eyed look of don’t-bring-me-into-this, but I eventually got a “yes” out of him.<p>I said that OS-X was surely being used for things that were more security critical than a phone, and if Apple couldn’t provide enough security there, they had bigger problems. He came back with a snide “You’re a smart guy John, why don’t you write a new OS?” At the time, my thought was, “Fuck you, Steve.”.<p>People were backing away from us. If Steve was mad, Apple employees didn’t want him to associate the sight of them with the experience. Afterwards, one of the execs assured me that “Steve appreciates vigorous conversation”.<p>Still deeply disappointed about it, I made some comments that got picked up by the press. Steve didn’t appreciate that.<p>The Steve Jobs “hero &#x2F; shithead” rollercoaster was real, and after riding high for a long time, I was now on the down side. Someone told me that Steve explicitly instructed them to not give me access to the early iPhone SDK when it finally was ready.<p>I wound up writing several successful iPhone apps on the side (all of which are now gone due to dropping 32 bit support, which saddens me), and I had many strong allies inside Apple, but I was on the outs with Steve.<p>The last iOS product I worked on was Rage for iOS, which I thought set a new bar for visual richness on mobile, and also supported some brand new features like TV out. I heard that it was well received inside Apple.<p>I was debriefing the team after the launch when I got a call. I was busy, so I declined it. A few minutes later someone came in and said that Steve was going to call me. Oops.<p>Everyone had a chuckle about me “hanging up on Steve Jobs”, but that turned out to be my last interaction with him.<p>As the public story of his failing health progressed, I started several emails to try to say something meaningful and positive to part on, but I never got through them, and I regret it.<p>I corroborate many of the negative character traits that he was infamous for, but elements of the path that led to where I am today were contingent on the dents he left in the universe.<p>I showed up for him.
评论 #17067248 未加载
评论 #17067154 未加载
评论 #17067520 未加载
dingo_batabout 7 years ago
Steve Jobs sounds like an amazing asshole! I wonder if all celebrity CEOs (Bezos, Gates, Zuck, etc.) are like this in private interactions.
评论 #17069420 未加载
评论 #17074912 未加载
评论 #17068951 未加载
评论 #17068589 未加载
pandakarabout 7 years ago
horsecaptinabout 7 years ago
Anyone else notice how it is impossible to select and copy text?
评论 #17069884 未加载
评论 #17069668 未加载
ProudNounDUzberabout 7 years ago
Now I just want a God of War game with Steve as Kratos and John as Atreus.
staunchabout 7 years ago
Steve Jobs and John Carmack are very similar people in a lot of ways.<p>They&#x27;re both from lower-class backgrounds, incredibly smart, had serious personality problems as children that could have landed them in prison as adults.<p>They&#x27;re both entirely &quot;self-made&quot; and spent their entire lives with (almost) singular focus, to the point of becoming the best in the world at what they chose to work on.<p>My impression is that John Carmack has avoided being CEO during his career because he knows it would involve him becoming more like Steve Jobs than he wants to be.<p>Could John Carmack have made an even bigger positive impact in the world if he had gone in Steve Jobs&#x27; direction? How much would he have had to change as a person?<p>I suspect a lot of people would come think of him as an &quot;asshole&quot; if he chose to get his hands dirty with the work of a CEO. Maybe the world would be <i>even richer</i> than it is now but at some cost to John Carmack and (perhaps) others.<p>In any case, they&#x27;re both beautiful examples of the greatness and weakness of the partially-evolved primate we call Human.
评论 #17068240 未加载
评论 #17068511 未加载
评论 #17069124 未加载
评论 #17068323 未加载