I work full time for an IT company that supports Apple products and we are in the same position. Its hard for us to recommend upgrades unless there is an hardware failure that's beyond the replacement cost. I still rock a 2012 MBP that has RAM, HDD, ODD, and ports. It can be service by removing 8 screws. IMHO it is the peak Apple Laptop. After 2012 they started being anti-consumer, anti-repair in laptop design.
It's always interesting how something monopoly-like makes companies lazy.<p>I am a cs-student with 3 1/2 year old a machbook pro, which I bought when I started my studies. I must say that I am still very, very satisfied, it's holding up great. Great display, suprsingly good battery life etc.<p>If something happens to my macbook, i would probalby spend a serious percentage of my savings saving on a new laptop. It's a very imporant part of my life, i do most of my work with it and I highly value the flexibility.<p>In this hypthetical scenario, i would really like to buy a new macbook and would probably go through a lot of financial pain if they took their line-up seriously. But it's really getting ridiculus.<p>I really don't understand why they fail so hard to update their hardware.
I don't want to go all "640k RAM" on this, but I think people's hardware needs have plateaued in recent years. The average person mostly uses a laptop for the web browser and a handful of other simple programs. Even gaming, many users' most hardware intensive task, has shifted in recent years to be less demanding.<p>So the question is why should Apple update their hardware more frequently? The HN reader, the software developer, or the content creator are simply not big enough audiences to motivate Apple anymore. A MacBook with 2-3 year old hardware does everything that your average Mac user would want.
If one company made a laptop trackpad as good as Apple's that worked perfectly in any mainstream Linux distro I'd buy their laptop in a heartbeat. I've never seen one that fits that bill though.
> Rather than attempting to wow the world with “innovative” new designs like the failed Mac Pro, Apple could and should simply provide updates and speed bumps to the entire lineup on a much more frequent basis.<p>Yeah. I'd always thought this was a Steve Jobs quirk, but Tim Cook has been in charge for years now and very little has changed in regard to Mac hardware updates.<p>The Mac Mini is a particularly egregious case. They won't update it, but they won't discontinue it either, so they continue to sell ancient hardware as if it's new. It's baffling, and certainly not indicative that there's some coherent plan being successfully followed.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Apple needs to sell off Macintosh. Their lack of focus on Mac hardware has cost them hundreds of millions of dollars, which for a normal company would be a big deal, but is rounding error for Apple.<p>I bet they could easily sell 1,000,000+ units of 2015 Macbook Pro laptops with 32GiG RAM and an updated processor/chipset/graphics.<p>I don't think it is a coincidence that 2015 was their peak unit sales for Mac [1]. 2017 was down from 2015 by 1.3 million units.<p>1: <a href="https://www.statista.com/statistics/276308/global-apple-mac-sales-since-fiscal-year-2002/" rel="nofollow">https://www.statista.com/statistics/276308/global-apple-mac-...</a>
I think it's pretty clear that Apple is having trouble following up on things. They're struggling with gradual improvements. Everything they do is so focussed on a big keynote, that they don't have any time left to focus on the smaller things inbetween.<p>It also means they only do one thing at a time.<p>One year they update the iOS App Store, this year they update the Mac App Store, maybe next year they finally get to update the iTunes Store on the Mac.<p>Once they do release something, they move on to the next thing. If you're not happy with one of the major releases, you'll have to wait five years until the next time they come back to this.<p>Don't like the new Mac Pro? Maybe the next one in 5 years will be for you.<p>Did the redesign of the Mac App Store not fulfill your hopes? Maybe the next one in 5 years will be better.<p>In my opinion, they are failing to scale their vertical integration as the number of products they are selling grows.<p>In the mean time, other companies that have embraced gradual improvements are running circles around them. The collaboration features of iWork are a joke compared to Google Docs. While Apple is struggling to add proper CSV import to Numbers, Google Sheets offers Pivot Table.<p>Within short time, Amazon Prime has become so much better than the iTunes Movie Store. Apple has completely lost the lead there. It's crazy that Amazon has a better UI here than Apple.<p>If you want to get an 8k Display, you need to get a Windows PC, since macOS doesn't support it. If you want to get a 28" Screen with a stylus, you need to get a Windows PC.
Apple is so shameless that it sells old hardware for the same prices it released them at several years ago. The profit margins on selling the Mac Pro and Mac mini must be at least 70-80%. If that’s not eye gouging, nothing else is.<p>At least reduce the prices and be honest instead of following this dirty and unethical practice.<p>What was even the point of talking about changes to the Mac App Store during WWDC with this poor state of affairs?!
This reminded me of Steve Jobs' comparison of the Mac to trucks. Not everyone has a truck but a lot of people need them to do their job. As more and more people move to mainly using mobile devices (including tablets) for the majority of their computing needs I think the truck (i.e. mac) business will continue to be slow and plodding. Developers are the only people Apple really needs to make Macs for and that's a pretty small market in the grand scheme. Creatives doing photography, 3D, video, etc. have long left for other platforms. I don't expect things to get much better.
I really REALLY wish they'd do something with the Mac Mini.<p>Give it a massive spec bump and drive the price down like they do (sort of) with the iPad and it'd be a great device to pick up.<p>Such a small form factor with good specs - it's like a NUC but with MacOS. It'd be great.
Still have my 2008 Mac Pro desktop, that has been frankenstein'd to the max. Seems to get by just fine considering it's ten years old. Still blows my mind how much they've pushed the power user away. All they had to do was keep the cheesegrater box updated, and there would be no complaints. Now we're all using or looking for alternatives. My latest being an old Dell corporate throwaway running Linux for my dev environment. If Mac's are such a minuscule part of their revenue, then just get rid of the entire hardware line completely and be done with it. Stop stringing us all along for a god damn decade, so we can move along.
It's an iPhone company that has a lucrative little side business selling computers.<p>And all those enthusiasts who got them there are now left out in the dark like wet dogs.
Also, in recent years it seems that Apple just <i>loves</i> to announce things that won’t ship for many months. If they <i>did</i> think they could ship a new Mac within a few months, wouldn’t they eagerly announce it at WWDC and just say something vague like “ships in the fall”? To me, that means that nothing will arrive this year.
I think the Apple leadership's thinking is as follows:<p>- The revenues and market share of Apple's Mac unit has been stable for years[1]. No big gain, declines or spikes, regardless of how frequently they update, or how close their hardware is to the bleeding edge. Therefore, it makes sense to reduce their expenditure on the Mac until they see a drop in either revenue, market share or profit share, or some other genuine sign of danger beyond the griping of some professionals.<p>- The personal computer market overall is declining. Spending more for a slightly bigger slice of a shrinking pie isn't worth it, because there's no real opportunity for long-term growth that will please shareholders and analysts.<p>- Reducing the cadence of Mac hardware updates gradually closes the gap between the performance profiles of the iOS and macOS hardware, which moves them closer to the eventual goal of unifying the mobile and desktop software market.<p>- More frequent and more regular updates give more power to Apple's suppliers, as they become dependent on them for the components necessary to provide the updates expected by the market. Supply change management is Cook's area of expertise, and by delaying Mac hardware updates, and doing them on an irregular schedule, Apple can reduce supplier leverage, and walk away from deals it considers to be too expensive.<p>The most important supplier is, of course, Intel, and I think Apple would <i>love</i> to break the industry out of the idea that the supplier tail wags the dog in terms of CPU adoption. E.g. Intel can't just produce a new microarchitecture on their own schedule and assume all manufacturers will rush to adopt it, but instead have to accept a somewhat more subordinate role, whereby the big vendors like Apple can say "this is what we want, this is when we want it, and this is what we'll pay for it."<p>[1] <a href="https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/02/earnings-4q-2017/" rel="nofollow">https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/02/earnings-4q-2017/</a>
I'm honestly blown away by how many hardware problems I've experienced with my 2017 macbook pro after barely a year :<p><pre><code> * the top 5% of the screen is nothing but horizontal flickering lines
* there's a similar vertical line down the middle of the screen, but much smaller
* when the machine heats up, the T and U keys sound like a static discharge
* my left speaker basically doesn't work and just makes popping sounds
</code></pre>
I was already sort of on the fence at the weird 16gb limit on a so-called "pro" machine, but now I'm definitely committed to going in a different direction next time I get new gear.
I don’t think the iMac line is in bad shape. If I were in the market for a Mac, I could see myself spending almost $3K on an iMac 5K with 32GB of RAM and not feel any regret.<p>But the entire MacBook line is completely unappealing at thier current prices and with the unreliable keyboard.
Apple's logical next step is to end their line of computers, create a locked down "developer pro ipad (jet black is extra)" that comes with a Swift development environment that can only build iOS apps, requires a $50 a month "subscription" to boot up, and can only connect to apple IP addresses. But it will have a beautiful aluminium case.
Wife has a Macbook Air from 2013 that recently was water damaged. I took a look at the lineup and there has been almost zero change to the Airs since apparently 2010...same crap screen, monster bezel, and tiny ssds.
it's a sad state for hardware these days, just look at lenovo's thinkpads. they are destroying their brand too, but perhaps in another subtle way, by slowly removing things that people liked and adding bogus features. i really don't know what to buy when my mid-2014 macbook stops working. might just skip computers, go on a spiritual quest and find true love instead.
They should kill the Mac Mini. Until they do, I'll keep waiting and hoping for a Mac Mini with USB-C that can drive external monitors well.<p>The iMac Pro is awesome, but the lack of target display mode makes it use a lot of space that can't be used with anything else. Older 27in iMacs were awesome for that - personal Mac for home, use as an external screen for work when working from home, or as an external display for a gaming PC.<p>Where are we supposed to place the sacrifices to the gods who will keep all of our 5-7 year old Macs alive until the new ones come out?
I have a hypothesis, and desire feedback:<p>Software (including websites) is designed around the limits of “normal” hardware. Right now, that means phones and tablets. That hardware is less powerful than ‘proper’ computers, so any software designed for the average user’s hardware runs <i>so</i> easily on proper computers that there is almost no demand for significant CPU improvement. (GPU is another matter, and will remain so until “photorealistic graphics” stops being an exaggeration).<p>Yes, there is still the point that the same specs on paper can be bought much more cheaply without the Apple logo. This used to be a regular thing which flipped the other way around for a couple of months whenever Apple released new hardware.<p>That said, my hypothesis leads to a testable prediction: conventional computers will not improve until tablets and phones are as powerful as them.
I'd say the problem is an outdated method of judging a hardware design's "age." Saying the iMac Pro is "neutral" in terms of modern-ness 6 months out from introduction strikes me as particularly nonsensical. Exactly what should have been updated there? I don't see any advance in Intel's relevant line of Xeons in the interim (and AFAIK Xeon development is itself measured in years).<p>Obviously, the Macbook Air and Mini are extreme (and genuinely embarrassing) examples, but generally speaking a ~1yr update cycle (everything else on that page) seems entirely reasonable, especially given Intel's more, uh, deliberate pace in recent years.
The sad state will be when Apple eventually pushes a tremendous upgrade across their product line in 2019 or 2020 and instead of the powerful X86 CPUs we get even thinner laptops with ARM CPUs and a reset across the software ecosystem.<p>I think we're kind of the dinosaurs clinging to X86 not them and that's the most annoying part.
Yes it is very clear there is something going on in mac hardware. I believe it has been in this state for some time now, since prior to the updated MBP.<p>I believe it is a combination of failed milestones by Intel and a change in direction at Apple regarding use of ARM processors. It was a disappointment to have no HW announcements at WWDC, but I imagine there are folks at Apple who are more disappointed than rogue amoeba.<p>I run a fully loaded 2015 11' MBA I picked up after returning a well appointed 13" MBP. The battery life was way to weak to justify the high price.<p>The 2015 11" is showing its age a bit, primarily in rendering on a large 27" with higher resolutions than the apple cinema.<p>There is no good upgrade path for me right now, in mobility / price / performance.
I've been using exclusively Mac since 2007, and I used Mac as my primary since 2000.<p>I currently use a late 2011 MBP as my primary machine, but it's getting a bit long in the tooth.<p>I'm seriously considering getting a Linux laptop to replace it. I ran linux as my primary from 1998 to 2000, so it's not entirely foreign to me, but it will still be a bit of a switch.<p>The main thing holding me back is that I make income giving Keynote presentations, and I'm not sure how I'd do that with a Linux laptop without having to carry a second device.
It could be that Apple is planning to switch intel cpu to their own, which will take quite some time to finish, and they don't want to release an incremental upgrade before the new cpu.
I agree. It's tough to imagine I'll buy another Mac at this point.<p>It seems like Windows has several options for doing Unix development, which was another historical advantage of OS X.<p>For personal use, all I really want is a 2011-era MBP form factor with modern internals and a modern display (ideally matte). My mid-2010 still has no replacement in sight. I'm not sure the exact PC laptop of my dreams exists, but there are certainly way more options.
Are there any laptops that support macOS but are NOT Apple hardware? I dropped my MacBook Pro and need to replace it, but I am holding off because the hardware is almost the same as when I bought it a few years ago!<p>Can anyone recommend a laptop that supports 32gb of RAM, would run MacOS (or Ubuntu, I could get used to) and made of something besides metal? I have allergies to nickel, cobalt and gold. You would be doing me a solid!
The new MacBook Pro keyboard/port situation/touchbar is a complete fail. Another company would say oops and revert. Apple never will. They see it paramount to project a corporate image of infallibility above actually creating products people want.<p>I echo the sadness here. I have so much sweat, money, and love invested in the Apple platform but when I have to replace my first gen retina MBP I’ll probably just go Windows.
When will this change? Apple keeps announcing an interest in "us" Pro users but can't seem to push out a Pro product we want? On top of which the new OS wont work with older Macs....
So glad this post came along. I was just thinking the other day that I am truly in favor of Apple splitting with one part iPhone and the other Macs. I really think that will bring back innovation in Mac hardware.
I agree with the article, but I think Apple has known about this for quite some time now. Redirecting a huge ship like the Mac takes a couple of years at least.<p>I think (hope) we will start to see nice results in 2019.
I've got a 2011 Macbook Air and find no compelling reason to upgrade it. If Apple doesn't update the line before my trusty Air bites the dust, it may be back to Linux on a Lenovo for me.
just give us ARM/apple Ax processor macs already - a 8/16/32 core mac would run corners around any intel stuff..<p>especially as the thermal properties of intel turboboost is really horrible nowadays on macbook/laptop for dev usage.. (imagine maybe due to the meltdown/spectre slowdown..)
Actions (rather, lack of action) regarding the Mac speaks volumes.<p>The messaging could not be more clear, the real question is why are we all still in denial?
iMac Pro VESA Mount - Which is a complete pieces of crap. [1]<p>Macbook Pro -<p>Keyboard failure. Forget about the type feeling or depth of key press and the loud sound of it trying to trick your brain as if you have pressed it. It fails, constantly, and consistently. And Apple charges you $400 to $650 for replacing the Keyboard. And BTW if you have Keyboard problem you should convince Apple to replace your battery, which you actually get a Keyboard for free. ( I cant find the post where an Apple employees's rub of telling customer they should have buy AppleCare in the first place. I mean like.... most, if not All big brand Laptop manufacture provides more then one year warranty on their top of the line Pro Laptop. Not Apple )<p>Trackpad - So large that even with their false positive detection software it is still 1% to 2% error. Some might not be bothered with it. Many do, and hated it.<p>USB PD - It is basically frying what ever it is plugged in [2], silently. It it wasn't some geeks discover it I bet 99% of the consumer has absolutely no idea what went wrong.<p>Reliability - So far any Retina MacBook Pro seems to have a higher failure then the old ones in 2012. It is happening a lot more often around me. And I am not sure if this is pure bad luck or what. Old 2012 MBP are solid. Newer 2015 onwards MBP suffer from sudden death, non chargeable battery, screen quality problems etc.<p>They made MBP more expensive, more prone to failure, also more expensive to repair.<p>Mac Mini - Is selling this to customer in 2018, morally OK? For this price?<p>Mac Pro - It took them 3 years to admit they messed up, and 2 more years to come up with a redesign.<p>Macbook Air - Non Retina TN Screen for $999?<p>Just went Router hacking got to new level, Apple decide to discontinue their AirPort line. Great.<p>To add insult to injury, they continue to say they "care" about Mac. When none of their action has proved or showed they do. This is a company that act and execute way faster on the same products when they were a $10B company, now they are close to $1000B.<p>My friend's MBP just suddenly dead today. Came back, didn't turn on, Magsafe was always on Amber. And he now has to decide what to do, he doesn't want Touchbar, nor the keyboard of newer MBP. The MacBook is way too small screen size. He may be forced to buy refurbished older MBP. Or may be leaving the Mac all together. It really is a sad state.<p>[1] <a href="https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/28/snazzy-labs-imac-pro-vesa-adapter-broke/" rel="nofollow">https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/28/snazzy-labs-imac-pro-ve...</a><p>[2] <a href="https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8223635" rel="nofollow">https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8223635</a>
I'm sorry, but I see this as uncalled-for cynicism for the sake of it. Can you point me to an alternative to Apple hardware that is as polished and solid as Apple's MacBooks?
So first Mac is dead, because of iOS then we have iMac 5k .<p>Then macbook is dead, because of iOS, we have new macbooks.<p>Then mac pro is dead, because of iOS we have iMac Pro.<p>Is shouting "dead" the new password for upgrade request ?<p>I see an average of 1 update in less than a year with the only exception of mac mini. Why we need more often? I fail spectacularly to see the problem here.<p>Mac users buy computers that keep for years. My first iMac I kept for 7 year my second one is already on its 4 th year and still feel nowhere close to the need to upgrade and I do 3d graphics + coding.<p>I even live mostly in Windows 10 nowdays , mainly for coding reasons. Flies with no issues. I kinda like Win 10 actually.<p>Sad is exactly the opposite thing that I feel using my iMac. I feel sad with most pc monitors that I see around though.<p>Hell, the new OS brings native support for eGPUs , so I can even upgrade my iMac without forking money for an iMac Pro.<p>The new Metal which was already 10 times faster than the crap... sorry I meant.. OpenGL is reported to be 2 times as fast as the previous version.<p>Waiter... yes please may I have another plate of sadness soup... I really like it.