I think this is a combination of issues:<p>USB-C's ecosystem was confusing and good products never materialized, or if they did nobody could find them in the sea of junk.<p>The lack of hardware updates, which seems to have started with the 5-10% performance bumps Intel piddled out in the absence of competition from AMD from 2011-2017. Most of the CPU's and GPU's that could have been used frankly weren't much better than what they'd replace, so from that standpoint, upgrading the hardware was kind of pointless for an extremely minor performance benefit.<p>The keyboards situation is horrible. Failure prone and loud without much point.<p>Apple is making a lot of money in the iOS ecosystem. Success hides problems, and it seems like "if it's not broken, don't fix it" was used as an excuse to let the Mac languish.<p>As someone who did nearly all of Apple's IT-related certs in the mid 00's then watched them slowly decontent and destroy all of their OS X Server and related software almost immediately as iOS was on the rise, I don't see good things coming on the horizon.<p>If you're on a Mac, try to start using primarily OSS software and. Don't get stuck on a platform that might get abandoned tied to a workflow on software that isn't portable.<p>The silly thing is that Apple could (and should) invest in the Mac as it was pretty great, and could be great again. I'm not holding my breath.
Mid-2012 MBP with SSD, retina, and 16gb here.<p>I've got an HDMI port, SD card reader, two USB ports, two thunderbolt ports, magsafe power, and a proper, reliable keyboard.<p>I despair at the current crop of mac hardware. If this machine dies on me before some decent mac hardware arrives, I'm not sure what i'll do - but it definitely won't involve buying a new macbook with the touchbar, stupid keyboards, and no ports.
The most dangerous thing here is that the public is increasingly getting the message and idea that Apple's mac hardware is decomposing.<p>They really need to make this a priority. I fear that the success of the iPhone is blinding them to the importance of the mac. And you can tell because they're kicking ass when it comes to iOS devices. They're so far ahead in certain areas, it's not even funny.<p>This is reminding me of the Steve Ballmer years at MS. The financials looked GREAT, even though the company completely stagnated when it came to technology (with some exceptions like the Developer Division).<p>Similarly, the Mac division's strong imbalance now of choosing form over function (the designers have taken over the asylum, removing ports, making keyboards thinner that nobody asked for), is going to continue hurting them until they change course drastically.<p>Hopefully we see it soon. Meanwhile, I am clinging on to my MacBook Pro from 2015, still the best MacBook Pro I've owned.
Apple needs to differentiate it’s lines further. The MacBook can be 2 mm thin and light as a feather for those who value those features. However, the MacBook Pro should be a true pro machine with a great keyboard, great screen, necessary ports, and built like a tank. Thinness obsession has gotten a bit far IMHO.
Like someone else said in another comment, the grass is not green on the other side. I tried every windows flagship option out there from Asus convertibles to XPS 15 (still have this) and my experience was not even close to what I had hoped for. From big issues like coil whine on the XPS 15 to little issues like battery randomly dying, it seems like no other manufacturer cares about quality control and human user experience at all.<p>Ended up getting a 2017 touch-bar 15' pro and could not have been happier. At least with MacBook I do not have to think about the machine getting in my way while I am trying to do something productive.<p>The keyboard situation is bad but I am sure at one point they are going to have to do a recall or offer free repairs (Apple has done this before, look at the GPU issues).<p>The touchbar issue is overblown. Once I adjusted my workflows to use touchbar and customized the touchbar for the apps I frequently use I have definitely been a little more productive than my old macbook. People do not like adapting to changes.<p>USB C is not a problem anymore, since most of my devices are using USB C already I can usually get away with just couple of cables (usb c and lightning) while traveling.
The keyboards. The failure rate makes them a risky purchase. You could be just out of warranty and locked out of your machine. This is happening and driving people away. I personally am really going to miss that perfect trackpad as it's not going to be another MacBook Pro for me until this is fixed.
Discussion of the actual article this piece addresses from 4 days ago (over 300 comments): <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588</a>
Interestingly for me, the annoyances of the new MacBook have faded into the background (no escape key, worse keyboard). I learned to hit ctrl+[ in vim, and don’t mind the keyboard until a key sticks for a little while.<p>Meanwhile I can’t imagine going back to the thicker form factor.<p>I don’t mean to downplay people’s issues, and Apple definitely didn’t do a wonderful job here.<p>But I do find that my day to day experience is net positive. Humans are very adaptable.
Is there any indication that Apple is taking these complaints to heart?<p>I suspect that the lack of updates may be indicative of Apple switching to an ARM based CPU for their laptops and desktop machine. If this is the case it probably wouldn't make sense for them to invest a lot in designing a new laptop around an Intel processor. It would also explain the delays since they would both need to get to grips with the hardware design AND provide a solution for running software compiled for x86 on ARM.<p>While they have done this before, the task is much bigger this time as there is considerably more software available for the Mac that would need to work on the new architecture.<p>Of course, this still raises questions. The first being how long it would take to stabilize the platform again. The second whether Apple will be sufficiently interested in the desktop/laptop market to deliver more consistent and meaningful product updates going forward.<p>If they are indeed going to ignore the desktop/laptop market the interesting question would be how this would affect the sales of their other products.<p>My guess is that if they manage to break up with developers, through inaction or otherwise, there is probably going to be a slow decline that nobody gets particularly worried about until it can't be compensated for with cheap sales tricks.
I'm having a deja-vue. 25 years ago Apple was facing a similar decline in product diversity, innovation and novelty. With Steve Jobs gone forever I don't think Apple will survive that one. By a long shot Apple will burn through their cash very fast, with mediocre products and no innovation in the pipeline. And I don't see another innovation genius like Steve Jobs with a determined vision to come around at Apple these days. Good luck with that!
Hear, hear! I type this on a "Late 2013" MacBook Pro that I would have upgraded years ago if the replacements were desirable and they can't even keep those up to date.
I sadly gave up on the Mac. My next personal device is a Dell XPS.<p>The platform is great, and I liked the (declining) 3rd party ecosystem, but if the company doesn't give a crap about the platform, why should I?<p>It's probably too late, but Apple needs to break the industrial design team's stranglehold on the platform. You can only focus on things that the customer doesn't care about for so long. I pulled the plug when my colleague had to spend about $350 on magic dongles for his $2k laptop.
I switched back to a Linux workstation, after being "all mac laptop" since 2003 (!). My current Macbook Pro is from 2010 and my professional Macbook pro from 2015. The newest Macbooks with their stupid keyboards and USB-C only are total garbage, IMO. Sad.
Completely agree. Reliability has plummeted with almost every release since the retina MBP. Crashes are a regular thing and most of the physical "improvements" outside of compactness and weight have been unwanted. The touch bar in particular is just a dead appendage.<p>But my previous and extensive experiences with Linux and Windows ecosystems tell me that the grass is not greener, so I stay and put up with the problems.
I am a former Mac user who has “come home” to Linux and BSD in recent years.<p>Between the sad state of the Mac ecosystem (I like both the hardware AND software less today than I did 7 years ago) and the repost about desktop Linux UX this morning, I feel like the F/OSS and Mac communities have missed a golden opportunity.<p>If I had a time machine and a magic wand, I’d certainly have blessed the GNUStep project to build the desktop many of us wish we had today. Had some hypothetical GNUStep desktop captured the mindshare of the majority of Linux desktops, I could imagine living in a world today in which Mac and Linux software were more or less a recompile away from portability. I could imagine a world in which some developers prefer building Mac software with GNUStep tooling. And I imagine a world in which Apple’s focus, priorities, and missteps weren’t an existential threat to people trying to make their living on the Mac.
I know a lot of people I know have seen this coming and in the past few years have either switched to Windows (creative types) or to Linux (developer types).<p>It's fascinating to see Apple's fall from grace. They were once considered the go to hardware vendor in nearly every market segment, are now being easily passed by their competitors.
I've been repeating this point over and over but: if you are a software developer AND your target platform is non-Apple Unix -- in other words if you're developing for Web or Android -- there isn't a single reason to choose Mac over a solid PC running Linux. I've used Mac for years before switching to Linux, and two years ago had the chance to revisit Mac as the primary development machine for about 10 months, and my opinion only became stronger.<p>That doesn't mean that MacOS is not a solid system, and even Apple hardware is quite good -- I've recently bough a 2013 MacMini (the one with an optical drive) as my main home theatre and am quite happy. But as a software developer, I find using the same platform I'm developing for a very important detail.
I have an early 2013 MBP that I'm going to hang on to as long as I possibly can. It is truly a wonderful machine. I'm long out of warranty and just opted to pay $600 for repairs rather than upgrade. Really hope apple can turn things around before it finally kicks the bucket for good. Pretty amazing and sad how a company can take something so good and completely ruin it. To be fair it probably doesn't help that our culture is so obsessed with constant new-ness in tech, expecting huge advances every single year which puts pressure on companies to come up with shiny new features all the time. If it ain't broke...
I don't get the hate about the MBP. I have the 13-inch 2017 model without the TB and I absolutely LOVE it. It's such a master piece, I simply love it and use it as my daily driver. I also don't have any problems with my keyboard, I only can tell good things about it. The 2 ports suck, but I never was in need of more, I only use the power adapter and the USB C to HDMI/DP cable that goes in my 4K screen and that's it. Havn't used any regular USB devices for years anyways.<p>The only thing I hate about it is the super slow CPU, but that's only partly because of Apple.
"sandworm101" commented[0] in the prior discussion that:<p>> Given Apple's grip on users, they may even see laptops as a competitor to their iPhone business. Time on the macbook is time not on the iPhone.<p>You can't get very much free / OSS software for your iPhone. You can't get around Apple's 30% cut on paid software.<p>At least subconsciously, I believe this thinking explains a lot.<p>[0] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17313613" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17313613</a>
What can't they just take the old non-touch bar 15 inch MBP chassis, put a decent CPU in that and go to 32 GB using regular DDR4? We'd still have decent enough battery life.
Recently got my Mac Book Pro nicked by a kid on a moped - mid meeting.<p>Sadly am not impressed with the touch bar, lack of USB, keyboard failures and the hardware is definitely due an update - or a price drop. There's only so long I'll hold out and wait for an update.<p>Am currently thinking of getting an iMac - then a chrome book for meetings (so when it get's stolen again it's not too brutal). Anyone else got other recommendations?<p>Assume windows isn't the blue screen mess I remember of days gone past.
The MBP is a dead horse at this point, so I took a look at the current iMacs (I'm used to working on a 27 inch display and 5K tempts me; a standalone high quality display isn't much cheaper than going with an iMac).<p>All stock models still come with HDDs.<p>I hope someone finds some Enron-level accounting trickery at Apple and the whole thing comes crashing down fast, and some other company can take the role Apple had from early 2000s to early 2010s.
I was excited about the Touch Bar, but it turns out function keys were entirely adequate. Anyone actually using it for more on a regular basis?<p>Touch ID on the other hand is incredibly useful, although much like the iPhone, it seems inevitable we will see Face ID sometime soon (which critics may point out just means Apple has caught up with Windows Hello).
I remain pretty sure that Apple's Mac line is going ARM. Their own custom, highly performant version.<p>However, I don't believe this excuses current circumstances.<p>And a chip swap doesn't address the other, current hardware problems.<p>I am not a Mac person, so my opinion doesn't carry much weight, on that basis. Nonetheless, having been reading what's going on, I'd say:<p>If your career depends on Mac, and you can afford it, I'd buy a 2015 MacBook Pro before they're gone. Even if it feels like a "waste of money", weigh that against being without an acceptable machine until Apple gets it together.<p>I'd also spend for the longer term AppleCare, to try to guarantee having a working machine until same.<p>If things don't improve, soon, I wonder what the second-hand market for these will end up looking like.
August 15th is the date I am concerned with because that is when the iMac was introduced. That is such an ideal date to release the next upgrade to the iMac line. There have been rumors floating about of a new chassis which would provide separation from the new iMac Pro.<p>I am still one of those dreamers who would love a headless Mac with some ability to add drives and even swap a video card. however Apple has not even bothered with a new display in ages so I doubt they would have a new headless mac without one.<p>Still happily using my 2013 iMac 27 780M video, last of the models that is not Retina<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac</a>
I - a web developer - am very content with my 2016 MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar. The only beef I got is that the keyboard gets dusty and spongy over time.<p>I'm hoping that Apple will at some point release a 15" MacBook Pro without Touch Bar.
For years and years, I've advocated that Apple should just release the OS like Windows. It runs fine on a lot of PC hardware you can buy off the shelf (I've built a few PC's that do just this). And, with the Nvidia drivers that were released a year or two ago, most graphics cards people want to run are available.<p>I realize that there's a lot involved with suddenly trying to support an array of hardware. But, maybe release with a set of suggested hardware, and a "no guarantees" sort of license.<p>I've always enjoyed MacOs, but the hardware has been a joke for some time now. My old G5 Mac Pro was the pinnacle of Mac desktops, imo.
It would be heartening if someone from Apple at least said they were hearing the complaints. Number one, IMO, being this idiotic keyboard. Then the ports, then the touchbar fiasco. Stagnation is not nearly as big an issue as those issues. As others have said, change in technology in general has stagnated. If I HAD to buy a new laptop today, I might buy a Macbook, but I'd have a hard look at the state of the competition's trackpads first. Then probably go with the older MBAir with the better keyboard....
Original link to the author's article:<p><a href="https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/" rel="nofollow">https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-o...</a><p>which was discussed earlier:<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588</a>
Ben Thompson at Stratechery may not have been the first to suggest this, but he has made a strong argument that Apple should spinoff the Mac business. Either to a subsidiary or to a 3rd party.<p>I see a lot of risk and potential downsides, but with each new disaster of MBP released or eternity between updates it becomes more attractive.<p>The tight integration with the iPhone (phone calls, messages, handoff) might suffer and that would be painful.
My biggest issues is the lack of memory past 16gb in the "pro" line of macbooks.<p>Right now I'm working on some integration tests with 5-6 different codebases and I have an intellij window for each. Then I have a couple of dozen chrome tabs open, a bunch of terminals and (most importantly for memory) a whole stack of docker containers and virtual machines.<p>16gb is a major blocker.
If you want a real MacBook Pro, I don't understand why they axed the 17" line. Those machines were beasts. Everyone I know who got one in college is still running them almost a decade later. For really doing work, a full keyboard and screen real-estate is king.
Previous discussion from a few days ago: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588</a> (331 comments)
Isn't the bigger issue for Apple that iOS is run by devs on the Mac platform? If devs start moving away from Mac computers, it becomes less likely they will develop for the App Store.
If only we heard from someone inside Apple. Maybe there’s strife in the company? Jony Ive dragging his heels on a design? Some middle manager obstructing progress? Supply line issues?
From a business standpoint, it's hard for Apple to justify investing in a product like that contributes a small and diminishing fraction of their revenue.