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IRC.com Bought by London Trust Media, Pledges an IRC Revival

493 pointsby metabrewalmost 7 years ago

48 comments

beefhashalmost 7 years ago
As a routine user of IRC: This scares – nay, terrifies – me.<p>London Trust Media is colossal. They seem to have control over freenode and Snoonet, two networks basically unchallenged in their niche. Snoonet hasn&#x27;t been doing so well since Discord, but that&#x27;s another story. They also seem to own Private Internet Access. If a player becomes too big, they&#x27;ll change the rules of the game. Just look at the state of Internet advertising: A few corporations probably know a lot more about most better than you wish they did.<p>Re &quot;IRC University&quot;: Practically every non-trivial network has its own software stack of some sort. Trying to teach people every kind of IRCd&#x2F;services combination is more or less doomed to fail. Mainly because people usually just <i>don&#x27;t want to know</i>.<p>Re &quot;IRC Ventures&quot;: There&#x27;s no money to be made on IRC, at least in its current form. Slack, Discord, etc. gained traction because IRC is fundamentally inaccessible. It does not meet any of the common needs of today: server-side storage of history, mobile-friendly data usage and session management, built-in uploading, profiles and profile pictures, first class support for emoji. Though whether addressing them is correct is another story. However, these would all need to be addressed to try and make IRC competitive on any kind of market. The IRCv3 team, which does have a decently broad amount of adoption, has had issues pushing through much more trivial issues. Hell, we don&#x27;t even have everybody on the same page about <i>TLS</i> – QuakeNet and UnderNet are still plaintext only. QuakeNet undeniably intentionally so[1].<p>Mark me highly skeptical of this undertaking.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quakenet.org&#x2F;articles&#x2F;99-trust-is-not-transitive-or-why-irc-over-ssl-is-pointless" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quakenet.org&#x2F;articles&#x2F;99-trust-is-not-transitive...</a><p><i>EDIT</i>: Seems I misunderstood some points, see also neatnosleep&#x27;s response to this comment.
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ummjacksonalmost 7 years ago
London Trust Media recently hired Mt. Gox (yes that Mt. Gox) ex-CEO Mark Karpeles as CTO. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.engadget.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;04&#x2F;22&#x2F;mt-gox-chief-returns-as-cto-of-vpn-giant&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.engadget.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;04&#x2F;22&#x2F;mt-gox-chief-returns-as-...</a>
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sirfzalmost 7 years ago
I can fairly say that it was IRC that introduced me to the coding world (where I learned to code TCL scripts for Eggdrops) when I was in high school and made me decide to switch my major to Computer Science after my first semester as a Graphic Design student (which I only chose because my brother had switched off Internet access from me for a few months which affected my judgment apparently)
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ve55almost 7 years ago
I&#x27;m interested to see how they manage to convince communities to use their IRC services over competitors like Discord when so many users see Discord as easy, free, trendy, etc. Of course services liks Slack, Telegram, Skype, etc, are also potential competitors in this ecosystem.<p>&gt;IRC Gaming (We&#x27;re going to have literally hundreds of thousands in cash prizes!) I suppose literally paying users money is one way, but it doesn&#x27;t sound very sustainable. Some of their other projects like &quot;IRC Ventures (VC&#x2F;Incubation on IRC!)&quot; are pretty hard to imagine the specifics about, but hopefully we&#x27;ll see some interesting positive actions sooner or later to show us what they really intend to do.
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mabynogyalmost 7 years ago
IRC is great and IMHO still the best chat system we have. I&#x27;m active in a IRC-based community of programmers (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;dailyprog.org&#x2F;chat&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;dailyprog.org&#x2F;chat&#x2F;</a>).<p>I&#x27;d like to know more about Andrew Lee (especially if he is reachable on IRC).
ge0rgalmost 7 years ago
Everything in this post except the personal sentiment could be about any semi-anonymous text based communication medium, be it mailing lists, web forums or any other chat system with group chats &#x2F; channels.<p>As somebody who has been on irc for over 20 years now, and shares most of the sentiment, I still wouldn&#x27;t invest into the tech. As others have written, the protocol simply isn&#x27;t adequate for today&#x27;s usage scenarios.<p>This is a problem that people have been fighting with some success on xmpp, which is far more flexible and is a superset of what irc provides, and there are the obvious web stack based solutions like Slack, Matrix and Mattermost.<p>Still, people rather use Facebook groups today, and we won&#x27;t convert them by making irc better.
alanpostalmost 7 years ago
We do customer support over IRC, on Freenode and OFTC. Particularly with the availability of web clients on Freenode, casual IRC users can reach us with minimal hassle while long-time users idle and voice when they&#x27;re highlighted or the discussion interests them.<p>My experience of Freenode is improved since PIA&#x27;s involvement. Staff lurk in our channel on-hand to help if something comes up. Last month when services went down a developer put their head in to talk about the outage and share the patch developed from the experience.<p>I don&#x27;t think there is another chat platform with that kind of robust community. The tooling for IRC makes the experience more like an auditorium than a parlor. I&#x27;m optimistic about this announcement--if IRC has a future I believe it will be due to the social scale at which it is capable of operating.
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a_liebalmost 7 years ago
It&#x27;s good that they want to maintain and nourish the culture that has grown up around IRC, but in the long run, shouldn&#x27;t the focus be on keeping the culture but moving it toward newer federated systems like Matrix? IRC is late 80&#x27;s technology with no security.
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cantelopealmost 7 years ago
If I may interject.. Until 4 months ago I didn&#x27;t know LTMH existed, but I knew I loved Freenode, and IRC in general. Since then I&#x27;ve learned much about LTMH, having been hired by them as a developer and designer. They have treated me very well so far, and I believe in my core that their interests are benevolent. They believe in protecting privacy, freedom of speech, openness of software, and connecting individuals from around the globe. In my experience, LTMH has never sacrificed these principles in the pursuit of financial gain, and I believe this endeavor (the IRC.com project) will, as all their other projects do, serve the community upon which they depend.
crooked-valmost 7 years ago
IRC will never get popular again. Server-based history and connections shared across devices are just too useful.
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xf86alsaalmost 7 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;matrix.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;matrix.org</a> is essentially a modern IRC, but federated and completely FOSS. I suggest people drawn to an IRC-like experience without the proprietary nature of Slack and Discord [give it a shot](<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;riot.im" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;riot.im</a>).
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itchyjunkalmost 7 years ago
Freenode already has channels like ##math, ##physics etc where lot of actual lecturers and professors lurk. I&#x27;ve gotten all my math help past few years over there as the quality of help is considerably better than the tutors on campus. So what does &quot;IRC University&quot; mean? Have accredited classes? Or just the same idea ?
j45almost 7 years ago
I don&#x27;t know about trascended... But it definitely has gone backwards since.<p>But irc in its heyday had far higher quality and duration of connection than much that followed it. Maybe it was truly the first generation of the internet. I still have many of those teenage irc connections in my life years later.<p>It&#x27;s not hard to imagine IRC surviving if it had a natural path to instant messaging when Icq&#x2F;aim&#x2F;yahoo arrived.<p>I welcome a return of a modern IRC.
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amatechaalmost 7 years ago
I mean, IRC is still going pretty strong. I&#x27;ve used IRCCloud [0] for years and swear by it. IRC is still pretty much the universal chat protocol you can expect to find discussion forums for pretty much any subject, and not encumbered by centralized commercial systems like Slack or Discord (as much as I like them).<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.irccloud.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.irccloud.com&#x2F;</a>
hestefiskalmost 7 years ago
We should be pleased that someone actually wants to move irc forward and invest in it. I first discovered IRC in 1995 hanging out on #hackerzlair and later various Linux channels on EFnet. Without the countless hours on irssi inside GNU screen (yes, there was something before tmux!) I wouldn’t be where I am today in my career. That said, we need to keep it distributed as much as possible; too few owners could be poisonous.<p>To my last point, I could easily see a second revival of irc using IPFS as the transport layer. Same feeling of community and privacy in a text terminal, but no central nodes.
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noway421almost 7 years ago
IRC should surpass the notion of just a protocol and become a real product. The UX is still not user friendly. There&#x27;s no standard way of doing threads. Rolling out IRC in an organisation is extremely hard. Cloud-based IRC hosting providers are hardly credible and not endorsed by anyone as enterprise-ready. IRC Clients are offering drastically different level of experience, if even usable out-of-the-box. Authentication is hard (why do we have a hack like NICKSERV if that stuff should be in the protocol?). Offline message retention, history viewing, and seamless offline&#x2F;online transitions are completely broken (Bouncer usually solves those with terrible UX).<p>Messaging is not easy. There are teams out there who are working on solving those hard problems full time while having the luxury of having a centralised specification with full control over implementation. IRC won&#x27;t be ever be able to achieve that without transitioning into a centralised product.<p>There are reasons why going as centralised product is best. Twitter did the same (it was easy from the technical point of view, hard from community point of view). They managed to up their game in the user experience by doing so.<p>I&#x27;m not sure IRC can even do that at this point, the protocol is in the wild and making additions to it&#x2F;standardising them, getting clients to adopt the changes would be hard. But it would be the only way for IRC to compete with other solutions.
giancarlostoroalmost 7 years ago
I&#x27;d love to see IRCv3 take off more:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ircv3.net&#x2F;irc&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ircv3.net&#x2F;irc&#x2F;</a><p>I also want to understand web clients more, do they use WebSockets? Can we spec that out to be part of every IRC server out there?
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madpropsalmost 7 years ago
I love IRC. Use it every day. I&#x27;m developing my own chat stack though, which supports images, video, and audio changes as core features of it.<p>This is how an empty room looks like: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;ir3qyUp.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;ir3qyUp.jpg</a><p>Code can be found in <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;madprops&#x2F;Hue" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;madprops&#x2F;Hue</a><p>Been working on it since 2016
mepianalmost 7 years ago
I don&#x27;t expect anything good to come out of this for the current IRC users. Hopefully they aren&#x27;t going to play the embrace-extend-extinguish game in the long run to steal the name for their own proprietary protocol.
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passedbyalmost 7 years ago
A fair few open source projects mentioned there. If they can be keeping things open while truly helping the existing IRC projects then that would be cool.
babbit999almost 7 years ago
A friend introduced me to IRC around mid 90s when internet was getting popular in Sweden. DALnet was the network and it was late hours due to the channels main participants where from overseas. My friend went to the channels IRL get together in the US. Met there his love of his life, married and moved to the US. I think it’s a great story about the impact of internet and IRC was and probably is.<p>Turning to today, I think IRC can be a big player in the area of IoT. Especially because internet is going into a period of decentralisation. It’s starts with the geeks, like you and I, and later the main caucas will trend on.<p>Long Live IRC!
kuonalmost 7 years ago
This is a bit off topic, and I love IRC, but I&#x27;d love a modern IRC client.<p>Features I&#x27;d like:<p>- Inline images and media<p>- html preview<p>- people list, friends, but also an automatic highlight system, when I chat with someone I don&#x27;t know for some time, I&#x27;d like to have that person on some list.<p>- Conversation history (a way to jump to my conversations within the channel history).<p>- More advanced profiles (image, bio...) Option to publish my public channel list.<p>- End to end encryption if in private channels<p>- Notifications<p>- Status (busy, helping...)<p>- Activity summary (mostly for private channels but being able to know who was active, and what was discussed).<p>- Reactions (on busy channels it is quite fun and a fun way to say thanks without pollution).<p>- Threads.
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badrabbitalmost 7 years ago
I like IRC but it&#x27;s 2018 and even the latest drafts of ircv3 lack built in e2e encryption for private and group messages.<p>Using IRC is like using ftp or email. We&#x27;ve been there and tried that,slapping on a solution to secure it just won&#x27;t work well. They&#x27;ve been trying to fix email for decades now and the best solutions we have(gpg and s&#x2F;mime) still don&#x27;t provide metadata security (I don&#x27;t think their encryption can be callend end to end either)<p>In my opinion, a new <i>end to end encrypted</i> protocol that preserves the properties of IRC people like would be ideal.
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znpyalmost 7 years ago
I am part of a student association of GNU&#x2F;Linux users in my university.<p>A long time ago many of the founders met on IRC, and after founding this association, they also founded a dedicated IRC channel.<p>This was nearly twenty years ago.<p>Time has passed, many new presidents and members have proposed new communication media (slack, zulip, mattermost among the many) and after some initial enthusiasm they all faded, their problems had become evident and their usage has dropped since.<p>Needless to say, that IRC channel remained. Despite everything.
bonytalmost 7 years ago
Oh man. The description of how IRC has impacted his life really hits me. I&#x27;ve been using IRC since I was in middle school, I&#x27;ve made and lost friends there, I&#x27;ve learned to program, I&#x27;ve helped others, I&#x27;ve grown as a person. It pains me to watch it fade as we move to platforms like reddit or discord.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1782&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1782&#x2F;</a>
fimdomeioalmost 7 years ago
hmm... To me irc was great as a young teenager in the first half of the 90&#x27;s because my friends were there. I used a lot of geographical local channels so at some point people started organizing dinners, and I ended up knowing a lot of people. I still love the concept of irc but people are gone and they are never coming back unless someone destroys fb, snapchat or whatever they are using right now.
kuba-orlikalmost 7 years ago
For me the thing that IRC desperately needs is a set of features that would make it usable on mobile... While constantly switching networks (wifi, 3g etc) it&#x27;s almost certain I will miss some of the messages. That is a real dealbreaker for me and the reason why we&#x27;ve decided to have an irc-&gt;telegram vridge so people can keep up with the conversation on the go.<p>Spoiler alert: now everybody just uses Telegram
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Dowwiealmost 7 years ago
My first experience with the internet was through IRC. I had read about IRC in a book I had gotten at a computer show in 1991. I had no idea what I was looking at but figured out how to join a channel. I chatted with someone from Indonesia! How cool was that. None of my friends could relate.<p>I continue to use IRC regularly. The Python community is thriving on Freenode and Rust community on Mozilla
ulkeshalmost 7 years ago
I love the optimism. Really.<p>However, while IRC is a great collaboration tool, and one I also grew up using, I find that though users are anonymous and no one can see each other, there are still plenty of trolls who have many ways of getting under one&#x27;s skin.<p>This utopia of IRC simply doesn&#x27;t exist. It is still comprised of humans. Anonymous humans. And anonymity tends to bring out the worst in people.
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agumonkeyalmost 7 years ago
irc is lively enough, steady and just right. Thanks but no thanks
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orliesaurusalmost 7 years ago
Read the article, a bit skeptical, but we&#x27;ll see.<p>P.S. I been registered on rizon since 2002 - who else is a an oldschool IRC user in here?
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csixty4almost 7 years ago
I used to <i>live</i> on IRC, but it&#x27;s been years since I was a regular user. Are channel takeovers still a thing? That was one of the things that turned me off on it after getting locked out of the channel I called home for most of a decade.
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noddinghamalmost 7 years ago
IRC revival? What do people think Slack, Hipchat, Discord, Stride, etc. are? They&#x27;re IRC derivatives. I spent my formative years online in IRC rooms so for me I feel like the &quot;revival&quot; has been going on for years.
jaequeryalmost 7 years ago
Long time user of IRC and I never ever heard of irc.com till now. What is it for and what does it do???<p>I have been saddened to see the state of IRC declining year after year. I love the fact someone is trying to do something about it!
whywhywhywhyalmost 7 years ago
IRC proves that having a barrier to entry can be a beautiful thing in some cases.<p>I hang about in an IRC channel with less than 10 active users, still more valuable than any Slack channel I lurk in with hundreds.
st3fanalmost 7 years ago
Who cares about the domain. Don’t need a fancy .com for a revival.
lerie82almost 7 years ago
not sure it need a revival. i have been using irc since 99
badrabbitalmost 7 years ago
Isn&#x27;t london trust media the owner of freenode and privateinternetaccess?
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ekianjoalmost 7 years ago
Revival? I did not know IRC was dead. I am still using it every day.
Jigsyalmost 7 years ago
How can you revive something that never died? :&gt;
valegalmost 7 years ago
Fediverse has a better shot than this.
wst_almost 7 years ago
The biggest problem, and biggest fail of IRC. It is too low level and requires people to write scripts when they need anything else beyond simple text message.<p>I am torn apart here, because I really do like hacking things. The issue is - most people don&#x27;t. They just want to use it, and they want to use it consistently - no matter the platform, the client, the server they are connecting to. And I totally understand that. More of it, I also understand that if you fail to provide this consistency your service have failed in the design phase and will never get widespread usage.<p>The sooner we, tech savvy people, understand that, the sooner we&#x27;ll be able to deliver a successful open services that actually stand a chance with their closed counterpart.<p>So obviously, give people way to hack, but you must to:<p>* Design a rich protocol covering needs of the biggest target possible while allowing optionally disable features. Channels history, disappearing messages, embedded media, text formatting, emoji, stickers, web hooks, API for bots, you name it. The protocol must cover most of them, so there is no need to write scripts anymore, unless you need something niche.<p>* Design a strict spec for the clients, so all of them must keep to the spec, or they fail to be part of the service. And this is critical - do no allow client to behave differently and have a missing features.<p>* Design clients so they are trivial to use. They must be usable out of box and all (most) of the features must be enabled after installation. Necessary steps to start using it (connection, channels, etc.) should be reduced to minimum and intuitive.<p>* Keep a community of server and client developers so they can share info and be able to build uniform solution for the users.<p>* And probably most important - promote the service. And do promote it heavily, unless you want to design something niche, which, I guess, is not what we are talking here.<p>I&#x27;ve used IRC for years in the past. It was great, I do admit - not anymore. Today I require at least few formatting options (bold, inline code, block code) and no 3rd party tools needed to get anything else work properly. I have no time to hack things I need to use. I would rather spend my time to hack things I like. IRC is just a tool to communicate, I want to use it, not hack it. I loathe to jump here and there to accomplish tasks that should be done within a second with one click.<p>The biggest problem I observe with many things in the industry is - made by devs for devs. Never for average Joe. Average Joe have no idea about keeping your session attached so you don&#x27;t loose nick, logs, etc. Neither he cares about that stuff. And honestly - the older I get, the less time I have for this kind of stuff as well. Just make it work or face the failure.
caiocaiocaioalmost 7 years ago
Meh. I&#x27;m still waiting for the triumphant return of the pets.com puppet.
xor1almost 7 years ago
Please no ircoin.
nopaciencealmost 7 years ago
Long live IRC<p>There will always be new platforms like slack, discord, gitter, and whatever. IRC was and still is great.<p>IRC is simple, its text, its stable. Its simple to program on and a lot can be done above it.<p>IRC is open.<p>The basis of old internet protocols are simple, open and powerful<p>Email, IRC, HTML, FTP<p>And as the article points out, irc has no face. IRC was a time people had to ask for a picture. Different from the newer trendier platforms. Back then people used to engage a lot more before they became curios to put a face on a nickname.<p>The internet has been inundated with the &quot;average&quot; people who unfortunately are not interested in &quot;aplications&quot; like mIRC&#x2F;irssi&#x2F;bitchX. Looks like average people need apps that are simpler to use than IRC, apps that allow them to promote their profile to the next level, have followers and likes statistic. Which is alright, in the end they are just the average people that wont put effort to learn nonclickable platforms like IRC.<p>The web really exploded when the smartphone came and apps like facebook came also and made the average people go online and understand what internet was for. There was a time when only the nerds understood what internet really was. Nowadays the internet guy is not a &quot;nerd&quot; anymore. Nerd is not perjorative as it once was.<p>IRC is still open, IRC is still kicking.<p>If you are on IRC, dont let the shiny and newer take you out from IRC.<p>Long live IRC
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slateralmost 7 years ago
&quot;IRC is a transcended level of humanity&quot;<p>Just how high are these folks on their own supply?
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Fukkaudekualmost 7 years ago
Let IRC die. Shit protocol, horrible usability.
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lcnmrnalmost 7 years ago
I just launched <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;superthread.net" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;superthread.net</a> the other day. It basically replaces IRC with a modern tech stack. Sorry for self promotion, but it’s a bit strange that someone else is having the same idea at the same time.
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