Memoirs of a Bullied Kid

This article means a great deal to me. It's good to see I wasn't alone. I was lucky in high school, because our school wrestling coach saw the rage I carried and convinced me to come out for the team. I lost 30 lbs the first year and got the skills to defend myself. Because I was just a weird guy, I still was a target, but I could protect myself and my friends who were also targets.<p>I still carry it like a massive chip on my shoulder. I feel that it's the reason I've driven forward into endeavors with intensity. It's made me who I am today; but I still can't forgive the kids (and teachers) who made my life a hell, also in 5th grade.<p>When I see a picture of myself as a little kid (&#62;4 years) I get really sad for the life that kid will have a few years after taking it. That's why I bust my tail - to tell my little 4 year old self that it's worth it.

I remember being in these spots. Growing up different isn't fun. For me, I just didn't care that much about the things other kids valued. I wanted to build things, read, learn about science and do experiments. For whatever reason, the fact that I didn't care about sports at all made me as good as an alien to my peers.<p>The fact that my mom is a lesbian, and that I didn't know any reason why anyone should have a problem with that, didn't help things, either.<p>So, there were school hiking trips where I had prickly pear cactus fruit pelted at me. I was pantsed at recess a couple of times. Once a little knife was held on me. More often than not, people just said unkind things to me. Getting into middle school was worse, just as the author said. There's some special vein of cruelty that emerges at that age.<p>I happened to get lucky. Teachers noticed me, convinced my mom to let me be tested for special classes, and I found friendship in people who were more like me. At home, having a computer and learning about all I could do with it gave me <i>extraordinary</i> self worth that would have been wrung out of me at school.<p>Eventually I learned to relate to people. By high school, I even got along with the jocks and other popular types, though by choice I never fell into any specific group.<p>Looking back, the author is right. I had it bad but my bullies had it worse. My parents, at least, loved and prioritized me. I can't imagine the miserable home lives these many of these kids must have had. (edit: Although, giving it some thought, I don't know how much my kindness would have earned me from these kids.)<p>All I know is this: my life was saved – <i>saved</i> – by technology. I'm not sure I'd have made it into adulthood without all the growth I gained thanks to my good ol' Performa 6100.

I disagree strongly with the sentiment that bullies just need love, that they're only doing it because they are hurting too. People are diverse, so I won't deny that perhaps that's sometimes true. But I think it would be more accurate to say that bullies do it because it's <i>fun</i> and above all because they <i>can</i>.<p>In short, bullies need to face punishments with teeth. And the bullied need to have access to a justice system they can trust to actually work. Something like this: <a href="http://www.sudval.org/05_onepersononevote.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.sudval.org/05_onepersononevote.html</a> (scroll down about halfway to "When you were young", A True Story).<p>Look, our justice system as adults distinguishes between aggression and self defense. But for some reason, we treat conflict between kids as if it's everybody's fault, and everything's okay once it stops. That's unjust, and is the root cause: adults that treat order and convenience as more important than justice.<p>When I was a kid, I remember complaining that my (three years younger) sister hit me. The first thing my mom asked? "What did you do to make her do that?" Well, of course I answered, "Nothing," but it plainly wasn't true. Who picks a fight with someone twice their size? And over the course of the discussion it came out that I had taken her toy and teased her, and you know what? My sister got a free pass. <i>I</i> got in trouble.<p>How about that old fashioned rule, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all?" How about, if I catch you insulting or belittling someone, you have to be their servant for half an hour -- get their water, sharpen their pencils, that sort of thing?<p>How about a justice system that treats allegations of teasing and insulting as serious matters, and <i>investigates</i> to get to the bottom of things? How about a system that is concerned about kids' antisocial behavior, not because it is currently bothering the adults, but because of the effects it has on both victim and aggressor?<p>How about a system that punished physical violence harshly if it was <i>aggressive</i>, and leniently or not at all if it's <i>defensive</i>? How about a system that says, "If you hit back with the aim of making the other kid stop, and you stop as soon as he does, we'll hold you blameless?" You know, the same deal adults get. (By popular judgement, anyway, if not always in court.)<p>How about a system that responded to kids' experiments in evil with love and affection and attention, encouraging them to delve deeper and teaching them that behaving cruelly toward others is a <i>great</i> way to get all the stuff they want?<p>Never mind on that last one.

I guess this place has higher percentage of the bullied than other communities, so let me share my bits:<p>I was the little kid with a big head and glasses which was the equivalent of "bully magnet". I got beaten up during kindergarten (by kids smaller than me), got beaten up in elementary school, secondary school, high school. Bullying kind of stopped in university because bullies couldn't pass the entrance tests heh.<p>And the funny thing is, I asked my family for help while I was getting bullied. I told my father that "These kids at school ganged up on me and while one was holding my arms the other one punched me". His response was "You shouldn't respond to them, they'll be gone soon". Unfortunately, "not responding" while you're getting punched is not a very efficient defense technique.<p>So my dad didn't teach me how to defend myself, he didn't contact school managers, he didn't do anything. And unfortunately this happened more than once. It is very depressing for a small kid to lose his trust in his father. And that happened to me when I was 9.<p>I knew no way to stop the bullying so naturally I focused my frustration on my poor little sister. I made her cry a lot. I tortured animals. Anything weaker than me received my wrath. And all this time my father was thinking I was a bad naughty boy who should have learned some manners.<p>Every parent should know that they won't be able to protect their kids from every harm. But they can prepare them, teach them, educate them about the potential dangers they may ever face and support them if such situation arises. I never had that kind of support, but my kids will have that. Oh and they'll learn how to land a flying headbutt onto a bully's nose if they get close enough.

I say this not as a kid who was bullied, but who had many friends who were bullied. And being a guy, this really applies to guys, girl bullying is a different dynamic.<p>The best way to overcome a childhood bully is to get in an old fashioned schoolyard fistfight with them. It doesn't matter if you loose, just don't loose badly. Fight them until your face is bloodied and your nose is broken, until your knuckles hurt, and you can barely move. Cheat, use blunt objects (no biting or weirdness), sucker punch, tackle, throw dirt in their eyes, whatever. No sharp weapons or anything that'll do permanent damage. You aren't fighting for honor here, this isn't feudal Japan. You're fighting for street credit.<p>If you're winning, stop when he stops. Make the exchange free of emotion and a cold business negotiation.<p>If he tries to fight you with a bunch of buddies, do whatever you can to move it in front of a neutral crowd.<p>9 times out of 10, they won't even show for the fight. When they do, put on a good show.<p>If you make it so troublesome to be a target, no matter how weird you are, they'll leave you alone. You have to make it a bad equation for them to pick on you. They pick on you because something is bad in their lives and they have to pick on somebody and by not fighting back you make it easy for them to use you as the outlet for their problems. Make it not easy, introduce friction into that equation.<p>If you do fight, 9 times out of 10, you'll end up being their friend and most of the time you'll find out that the bullies really have shitty life stories and need a friend.<p>Treat the bully like an angry dog, don't turn your back, don't run. Slow movements. He's not bullying you out of a rational decision, he's doing it out of instinct. He's a dumb and dangerous animal you should treat that way.<p>In my experience one fight is generally enough.

God damn, is childhood a tough time. Life seems really easy these days. Grade five felt about 10 years long.<p>Maybe I don't remember how bad it was, but I find myself thinking of the kids who were doing the bullying. The one guy became an alcoholic in High School because his dad needed someone to drink with during the day. School wasn't good, but when I got home I was mostly in the clear. It's hard to imagine how a child who felt constant fear and violence at home could do anything but impose those things on others.<p>I hope that I can instill in my children both the skills to resist bullying for themselves, but also the sense of justice to fight it when it's done to others.

This comment will be controversial, especially for North Americans and Western Europeans. I ask you to read it and think about it a moment before reacting, and comment if you disagree. I believe what I'm about to say is true, and I'm not trying to get a rise out of people - I want to fix some problems with society.<p>I feel for the author. I also moved around a lot as a kid. No, wasn't a military family. Just coincidences, reorganizations at work a few times in a row, changing jobs, family circumstances. Sometimes things went great and I fell into a group of good kids right away, sometimes they weren't so good. It's normal that sometimes the new kid gets shit. I understand.<p>A little teasing is nasty, but kids can cross the line. Something like this:<p>&#62; John and Mike never stopped. They never gave me a day off. And while their bullying hit maximum levels within a few days of school starting, the self loathing grew until I actually hated myself. ... they started in on new bullying tactics like sneaking up and cramming food from the floor into my mouth, knocking my lunch tray to the ground, throwing dangerous objects at me, tripping me, shoving me, and pushing me.<p>That's crossing the line. Those John and Mike kids are way past any acceptable teasing/jockeying line.<p>What's the author advise?<p>&#62; And so, I will ask you now to not hate the bullies. Experience tells me that hating them, or being angry with them, will always make it worse. Instead, put your arm around them. Love them. Tell them that they are valuable. Tell them that you expect great things from them. They will stop the bullying.<p><i>No, they won't.</i><p>This is where I'll offend polite society. I'm not doing it to get a rise out of you. I'll tell you - this is the mainstream advice you hear growing up these days. "Love the bullies, talk it out, and they'll stop."<p>No, that's false. That's how we got into this mess in the first place.<p>I remember I changed schools mid-year in seventh grade when we moved. I was born in August which is the cut-off date, so I was effectively a year younger than everyone else. I was 11 years old. The middle school I transferred to was 7th, 8th, and 9th grade. Just how that district was laid out.<p>A ninth grader - 14 or 15 years old, much bigger than me - pushed me into the lockers the third day at school. Hard.<p>He then laughed with his friends and started to walk off.<p>I ran after him, tackled him, and started hitting him in the face.<p>We both got suspended. No one caused problems with me after that. I found a nice group of friends and was respected. The older kid didn't cause me any problems after that either. He didn't really acknowledge me one way or the other, we were just strangers after that, which suited me fine.<p>And that's how you've got to do. This love the bullies thing - it's wrong. It ignores our animal nature.<p>I've got some sets of names I'd name my sons as they're born. They're unconventional names - Cosimo Marshall or Aurelius Marshall if the boy's mother was Italian, Zhuge Marshall if he was Chinese. The boy will likely get teased.<p>That's fine, tease back.<p>But son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you, they've crossed a line. <i>Fuck them up.</i> It's the only thing these vicious freaks understand. They're wild animals. They make violence on you, you need to show them that you're the stronger, bigger animal. When someone attacks you maliciously for no reason, you need to impose your will on them.<p>Even if you lose, lose swinging. They respect it. Be a tough fight.<p>This "talk it out" shit doesn't work... it's been the dogma for the last 30-50 years, it assumes the nobility of human nature will win out. It doesn't. It's nonsense. It just simply doesn't work.<p>If you're not strong enough to impose your will on someone making violence on you, then train and get stronger. If you're intelligent, it doesn't matter if the other guy is bigger than you. Take up boxing or martial arts. Brain beats brawn. Fight dirty if you have to. They shove food down your pants or whatever? As soon as he turns around, hit him in the back of the head as hard as you can. If you're much smaller, pick up a hard object and do it.<p>My Mom is awesome. She picked up from school when I was suspended. We sat in the principal's office and she was very serious, saying yes, my son is serious about school, he never gets into problems, I don't know what happened with the fight. After we left, she took me out to lunch and said good job.<p>I wished I'd learned that lesson earlier. Some people are animals. The ones that want to hurt you for no reason. Show them that you'll go to self-destructive lengths to defend yourself and avenge yourself upon them, and they'll stop. Also, protect others. I got into a shouting match protecting some McDonald's employees from a mob boss in Hong Kong. A riot cop came to break it up, I was almost in a fight with three mafia guys.<p>I had two guys try to mug me the other day in a dangerous area. Bad mistake, doubled one of them over with a kick the stomach and shouted at the other one, "YOU WANT TO DIE? BACK DOWN, STAY BACK." He did, he let me walk away while his criminal buddy was doubled over.<p>Should I have "talked" with them, "loved" them, these vicious criminals? No, they're animals. They don't understand.<p>Teach your kid to fight back and fight smart. Protect the weak. Be hell and misery to bad people. Pacifism only works if there's someone else that's strong around to keep things together - someone who'll stick up for you. If everyone goes pacifist except the bad people, eventually one bad person with no conscience winds up ruling.<p>No. It doesn't work. Teach your kids to fight back, fight smart, defend and assert themselves, and protect others in trouble. There's legitimately bad people in the world, barely above animals, and strength is the only thing they respect. Assert yourself.

I am in my thirties now and it still utterly astonishes me the degree to which the school administrators, teachers and parents in my high school viewed bullying with blithe ignorance. I was never bullied myself and I was never a bully, but I witnessed atrocities that would land any adult perpetrator behind bars for several years. Sexual assaults of mentally handicapped kids, kids having their heads forced into the water of a dirty toilet, kids shot with pellet guns during class, on-going intimidation, beatings, etc. Amazingly, this is just the stuff that I personally witnessed...I'm sure worse things happened that I never saw. All of this transpired with virtually zero repercussions for the bullies involved. It was truly sad. What is even more sad is that the adults at the school essentially turned a blind eye to this behaviour. I sure hope things have changed since then.

As a fellow bullied child, I can empathize with the treatment, but I could not disagree more with the proposed solutions.<p>You simply can not treat children as adults nor can all family situations be adapted to yield the necessary love &#38; care required to raise a non-bully. Biologically, children also don't have the same ability to morally reason and weigh present actions against future consequences. There's also a good deal of evidence which suggests some personalities and brains have a preternatural inclination towards aggressive actions and violence.<p>Children also learn, nearly from birth, how to please their parents and will often, as the author did, shield their "shame" at being bullied.<p>I was taught by my father, quite simply, to "always stand up for your rights" and that "dignity itself is worth fighting for".<p>As a kid, I never started a fight, but I ALWAYS responded to violence with violence. For many bullies, violence is really is the only social interchange they understand and the attention they receive from the public physical domination of others is their main source of self-esteem.<p>I got into my fair share of physical altercations (which I lost more than I won) and subsequent interactions with school disciplinary actions.<p>Nevertheless, win or lose, I never regretted any fight as they were 100% effective at preventing future bullying.<p>If a bully "gets bullied back", they back down. If a bully "wins a fight", they know you're always ready to throw-down and take the full measure of consequences so they move on to easier "prey".<p>School systems are different, but at least in my case, it always helped out with the school authorities to have the higher GPA and be recognized socially as the "good kid that got in trouble".<p>Finally, one learns at a visceral level, the numerous costs and few benefits of violence. Violence becomes a viable option, internalized very concretely, as the option of absolute last resort.

Honestly, I can't imagine what the solution is these days. Fight back? maybe. Maybe not. For my son I can say the most important thing is to assess your enemy effectively.<p>I've lost a few friends through school violence. One was shot in the head at a Christmas party, the other was ambushed, beaten into unconsciousness, and never woke up. When I was a young kid the worse you could expect was to beaten badly, by the time I finished high school clear, PVC backpacks and metal detectors at the entrances were the rule.<p>My high school wasn't in the best neighborhood and my first experience with a gun (9mm) was some kid showing it off and pointing it at random students.<p>The point is just know what's at stake before jumping into MAD mode. You may find out the other guy is really ready to go nuclear. In primary school, bullies are easy to figure out, they are little sociopaths that use violence. By high school their little brains have developed and some may be full on psycho.

It's nice reading an article like this once in a while. I like to forget how horrible my life had been. I eventually moved away from the town I grew up in with no money and no prospects just to get away from the violence and constant humiliation. I struggled every day since for everything I have today.<p>It's good to be reminded of where you came from.

If I ever have kids, they get martial arts training. From someone who emphasizes self-awareness and a productive discipline, but who does not skimp on the full range of effective techniques and the physical training to achieve them.<p>They may like it more or less. Regardless, it will be a part of their schooling.<p>Bullying ends when you end it. There may be more than one way to accomplish this, but when you're outnumbered and out of reach of any help, you need to be able to manage the physical situation. (This does not necessarily mean the ability to defeat an arbitrary number of opponents; it also means being able to reason ways to extricate oneself, etc.)<p>And, sooner or later, you'll be there. This is true throughout society and throughout its various situations; cooperation is limited, and you're going to end up facing difficult situations on your own. "Civility" is a luxury that is not always available.<p>Being persistently without control can become a self-fulfilling situation. Those neural pathways get burned in -- just as they do with everything else we learn particularly through repeated experience.<p>I don't want my kids to be placed psychologically in that corner. I also don't want them to place other in that corner, which is why the physical aspects are not sufficient.<p>P.S. I've also learned that some physical injuries can be irreversible. It doesn't do you much good to know that a bully will eventually "go away" or "one day learn", if in the meantime you have permanent scars and worse to deal with.

I think my friend said it best during a conversation we were having a few weeks ago:<p>Him: "So, what was high school like for you?" Me: "It was pretty shitty. I didn't really fit in anywhere." Him: "That makes sense - this sense of being the outcast always seems to carry over to anyone's next endeavor."<p>And I can see that, too. I never really fit in anywhere, not even with the nerds nor the AP kids. While everyone was postering and bullying me around, I worked on Linux machines in the back area of an IT office in our school. Then after school, I would usually go home and hacked on Linux and played video games all day.<p>It was pretty soul crushing, though I'm better for it - now I work on UNIX systems all day, and I couldn't have asked for a better job than this. However, I still struggle with depression and feeling like an "outcast" no matter where I go. Maybe my friend is right - this sense of ennui was a bit of a carry over from my high school (and even college) days. (for those wondering, one of my old alma maters, Seattle University, was a hell hole. It was high school extended to another four years. I didn't want any more of that shit.)

There's a lot of good information on this site:<p><a href="http://www.bullyonline.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bullyonline.org/</a><p>It's poorly-organized, but it's worth digging around.<p>I gave a printout of the profile of a workplace bully (<a href="http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm</a>) to a woman I work with who was facing severe bullying from her boss, and she said she got so engrossed in it that she missed her stop on the train. I knew the bully as well and it was <i>uncanny</i> how well the description matched him. It was like he had a well-known disease and we were reading a textbook description of its symptoms.<p>That was workplace bullying, but the site also has information on bullying in schools.

The saddest element of this story, for me, is that so many children internalize their rage and frustration and turn it against themselves. Just imagine what would be possible if everyone that was bullied could turn that anger around and use it to improve themselves, to make a difference in their world and in their community.<p>I have to wonder how many great ideas were crushed because someone couldn't believe in themselves to see their project from conception to completion.

Here in the UK, many schools have a zero tolerance policy to bullying, but this is nothing more than an empty gesture. As soon as a kid tells a teacher about their bullying problems, the bullying will most certainly not stop as the school as no power over what goes on beyond the school gates.<p>Bullies are never punished for their actions, which is why this problem always perpetuates.

I went to school in India and while there was some mild bullying now and again it was nowhere near as bad as this. I find it surprising how big a problem it is here in the US especially at the junior and high school level. In India the problem is with hazing (called "ragging") at the college level. Why do teachers stand by and let bullying continue unabated ?

When I was a kid I got a lot of this; the administration only really stepped in when they started stoning me (yes, throwing rocks) but otherwise it was just continuous misery. I suspect this guy probably had it worse, but there are some very eerie similarities.

In some cultures - especially England - insults are a friendship overture. (Yes, it's stupid, but it's the way things are.) What that means, is that the optimal response is to insult back - laughing. <i>not</i> to ignore it and <i>not</i> to take umbrage.<p>No, I'm not saying that all bullies are 'just trying to make friends'. They're not, some of them are vicious shits. But if you live in such a culture, your kid needs to know about it or he will never make friends (I'm not sure if this applies to girls). It will seem like every other kid is out to get them.<p>Laughingly insulting back says 'I have respect for myself, and I am willing to be friends'.<p>I didn't learn this while I was a kid.

PG's essay along similar lines: <a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html</a>

One aspect of home educating our four kids is that none of them have ever been bullied.

Dan's open some seriously deep wounds.....<p>Am a 31 year old and this is a throw away account.<p>I have asked many questions here on HN and some, read correctly, clearly showed my level of self-belief.<p>Since the age of 13 I was bullied, very little physical, mainly regarding my appearence and colour. I am Indian, a little darker than my fellow indian school mates. As I grew up, the the name calling and the playground bullying started. This got worse as I got in to my teens. The same people got the opportunity to bully me for around 12 hours of the day. This serious torment has rendered me to the point of taking the suicide option on a daily basis.<p>You would be correct in assuming "he wrote the last sentence as present and not in the past.".<p>You see, as a fellow HN'er, I can bearly program. I have not been able to concentrate on anything. I scraped through a degree, blagged my way in to jobs. My life has always been about planning, planing the escape from classmates, planing how to get out of school without being noticed, planning how to walk past some classmates on the pavement on the opposite side. This, without realising, has had a dramatic effect on my life. I left my family, I left everyone I knew to "get away". I planned to do this and planned to do that, but nothing materialised because the constant bullying has lead me to be down and depressed every step of the way.<p>Today, I earn over $60K+ working in Telecoms. I am shy, dont have the confidence to approach women and yet, managed to somehow marry a beautiful, kind hearted women but she has never known this about me. I hate myself. I still feel, ugly, fat and black (this is not in the black/white way racial way, but in a dark skinned highly unattactive way)....all those thing I got called years ago still affect me today and I am 31 years old.<p>I am qualifed, experianced and confident in walking in to an interview and getting the job, but my level of confidence ends there. Once in the job, am subdued in to the corner by my own doing, loose all motivation, feel depressed and just want to leave....all that after 2 weeks of starting a new job, yet I love technology, I love neworking, programming and love being a techie!<p>What is wrong with me? How do I 'snap' out of this? Is it even possible? am I depressed??? My doctor came to this conclusion 2 months ago. He died recently so nothing was done about it.<p>I have been involved in some small startup here in the UK. I have buried myself in them and throughly enjoyed it, albeit, with the constant nagging from within of failure, unattractivenessno, no self-love etc etc. None have been successful for their own reasons.<p>I long to do a startup, I long to make a successful product. I dont have any love for designer clothes, fancy cars or big houses. Is simply wish to learn to code and create a much loved and successful product.<p>I long to learn how to program correctly, effiecently but at each step, I fail with lack of concentration (even basic CSS is not happening), pressure from within and just wanting to get away from it all therefore loosing time and forgeting what I learnt.<p>I wish I could go back and stand up to those bullies, I wish I didnt let them get to me, I wish myself to be dead to this day. I have my religious beliefs which stop me from commiting suicide, but god knows I have been close. I am 31, and I still cry myself to sleep for being a failure, all this, without my wife of 10 years, knowing a single thing I've wrote above.<p>Bullies...Please Please Stop It.<p>Any advice would be helpful.