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Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

49 pointsby shreyanshdalmost 7 years ago

11 comments

peterburkimsheralmost 7 years ago
Immigration policies already set a very high barrier to entry, especially considering that 20% of the US population is functionally illiterate [1].<p>Immigration is the only hope for me to ever have a family. I was born in Switzerland to British parents who lived in France (in Geneva this is not unusual). Because I&#x27;m a citizen by descent, I can&#x27;t pass on nationality to future children. My girlfriend is Taiwanese, and I&#x27;m a conscientious objector who will not take on Taiwanese nationality because of their mandatory conscription.<p>My life plan revolves around immigration visa requirements. I studied Electronic Systems Engineering at Lancaster University in the UK. That got me a Masters degree from a Washington Accord accredited university, in an English-speaking country (language requirements), in a STEM field (usually on the skill shortage list). Then I used Working Holiday visas to get experience in many countries, before deciding to stay in Taiwan for 4 years to get years of continuous relevant work experience.<p>Now I have the pre-requisites, I&#x27;m trying to find a job, but the majority of job listings require me to already have a visa.<p>Any leads for jobs would be helpful. I was focusing on New Zealand, Canada, or Australia, but by now I&#x27;m getting desperate and I&#x27;ll take anything.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Functional_illiteracy" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Functional_illiteracy</a>
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belornalmost 7 years ago
Arguing immigration policy is usually better to do based on morality. Economic grounds is a hard proposition, since assuming the government budget is balanced we can split any given population in two groups; one which under a given time frame increases budget deficit when grown and the other which causes surplus when grown.<p>If we only look at the economical aspect then the question about immigration is simply a crass question about averages. If the average applicant with their dependents are in the later group for the defined time frame then its a good policy to allow and encourage growth, and if its not then its better to prohibit. Here in Sweden a researcher did such study and unsurprisingly the result showed that for the time frame of 20 years the state economics from immigration is a net negative. It is very possible that over an enough large time frame that result will change but their study could not make such predictions.<p>The averages for H1B applicants and their dependents could be different but the article here only cite a study that correlate economic growth for companies that hire skilled immigrants. Its a good incentive for doing more studies but I would focus the moral perspective of liberty and humanitarian aid when it comes to immigration policy. I have strong doubt that a rigorous economic study would fall in favor of immigration for any time frame less than 50-100 years, based on my own reasoning, guesses and historical knowledge.
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firicalmost 7 years ago
&gt; it would strip citizenship from the children of green-card holders and illegal immigrants alike, leaving millions of American citizens suddenly without a country.<p>Would it take a person with citizenship and remove their citizenship, or would it simply not grant them citizenship?
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jarymalmost 7 years ago
The H1B study sounds suspicious and the defence of the H1B program weakened an otherwise strong article.<p>H1B abuses have been long documented so while there are legitimate benefits to it, they are outweighed by the problems.
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extralegoalmost 7 years ago
I am confused about something that seems very basic, and hoping somebody can help me out with this.<p>I have always supported left politics, and I think I understand the basics of supply-and-demand economics. If immigrants come to the US <i>looking for</i> work instead of <i>bringing</i> work, there should be a higher supply of labor, driving the low-end pay-rate down. Given that the low-end rate has gone down significantly throughout the 3 decades that I have been alive, how do we on the left reason that immigration is not a factor? Or is it?<p>Also related: I thought public resources and the labor market were the most central reasons for nations having immigration policies. Am I wrong about that?<p>My parents voted for Trump, (or we might say they voted against Clinton). They have since decided to support Bernie Sanders next time, but they point to immigration’s effect on the labor supply as the reason to keep the border closed.<p>I would like to think we can address this with far more dignified solutions than what is being popularly proposed, but first things first; what am I missing?
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dropit_spherealmost 7 years ago
This is a throwaway account, but, hey, they have their place. I&#x27;m a regular HN commenter under another name(that you wouldn&#x27;t recognize, I&#x27;m not secretly patio11 or something).<p>The article frustrates me, because it echoes a thought complex that seems almost willfully obtuse. It fails to address the actual reasons behind a desire for caution on immigration. This is somewhat forgivable because those with the most reason to want caution are the least likely to be able to explain why, or to have the confidence to do so. But it is somewhat unforgivable because presumably it is the job of those who write articles to tease that sort of thing out.<p>The article gives a litany of problems for which high-skilled immigrants are the solution: pensions, tax bases, shoring up the population of &quot;declining regions.&quot; We are told that the &quot;dark nativist rumblings of right-wing intellectuals like Anton, are doing the U.S. economy an enormous disservice.&quot;<p>This is Bloomberg, so that is the unpardonable sin, hurting the <i>economy</i>. But maybe there&#x27;s more to life than the economy?<p>Consider Sen. Elizabeth Warren&#x27;s <i>The Two-Income Trap</i> [0]. She posits that much of the income a family gains from working women goes to positional goods, like housing or (credentialed) education---but since other women are working as well, the net gain is much, much lower than what the simple income numbers would suggest. Perhaps a simpler example is simply housing in SF. Sure, you get paid a lot, but if your rent is correspondingly high, well...hmm. And that&#x27;s assuming that you <i>are</i> being paid a lot.<p>Money is an abstraction. Sometimes it&#x27;s a leaky abstraction. What price air? What price true love? How much do loving, still-together parents cost? How much to block all ads on the Internet, forever? Just because you can&#x27;t buy these things doesn&#x27;t mean they&#x27;re not wealth, in the pg &quot;wealth is what people want&quot; sense.<p>If you held Google stock, and they doubled the amount of ads you see, Bloomberg would say you were up. But, well, now the internet sucks for you.<p>So...how much is your vote worth? How much is it worth to live somewhere where the opinions of most of the electorate match up with yours?<p>How much would you pay for your child to attend a school where you&#x27;re comfortable with the racial mix of the other students? This is taboo---even my villanous throwaway persona cringes writing it---but in practice people go to a lot of trouble. [2][3]<p>How much is social cohesion worth? [4] How much is a monolingual environment---and more specifically, the security of the implied cultural hegemony---worth?[5]<p>To really drive home the ridiculousness of the article, let&#x27;s flip the scenario: imagine new research came out that demonstrated unequivocally that &quot;immigrants are Bad for the Economy,&quot; and mirror-universe Evil Bloomberg wrote an op-ed citing such. Might you take issue with that, holding that they bring benefits not measured in GNP, and that this was a case of looking for keys under the streetlight?<p>I&#x27;m not arguing for any specific policies, which is good for all of us because I know jack shit about such. Rather, I&#x27;m arguing for the basic legitimacy of the nativist impulse. Humans of any origin like living in safe countries that they control.<p>&quot;But though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy&quot; - <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kiplingsociety.co.uk&#x2F;poems_copybook.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kiplingsociety.co.uk&#x2F;poems_copybook.htm</a><p>[0]<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;slatestarcodex.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;06&#x2F;28&#x2F;book-review-the-two-income-trap&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;slatestarcodex.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;06&#x2F;28&#x2F;book-review-the-two-inc...</a><p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newsweek.com&#x2F;why-schools-still-cant-put-segregation-behind-them-622278" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newsweek.com&#x2F;why-schools-still-cant-put-segregat...</a><p>[2]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;wonk&#x2F;wp&#x2F;2014&#x2F;05&#x2F;15&#x2F;housing-segregation-is-holding-back-the-promise-of-brown-v-board-of-education&#x2F;?utm_term=.d7a2840d2896" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;wonk&#x2F;wp&#x2F;2014&#x2F;05&#x2F;15&#x2F;housi...</a><p>[3]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;templates&#x2F;story&#x2F;story.php?storyId=12802663" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;templates&#x2F;story&#x2F;story.php?storyId=128026...</a><p>[4]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;wonk&#x2F;wp&#x2F;2014&#x2F;08&#x2F;08&#x2F;researchers-put-two-spanish-speakers-on-a-train-and-changed-commuters-views-of-immigration&#x2F;?noredirect=on&amp;utm_term=.114e6eb28740" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;wonk&#x2F;wp&#x2F;2014&#x2F;08&#x2F;08&#x2F;resea...</a>
grosjonaalmost 7 years ago
Current policies will give more opportunities for Americans.<p>Trump understands something that technology elites don&#x27;t; the wealth pie is limited and you have to be deliberate in how you slice it and who you give those slices to.
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sonnyblarneyalmost 7 years ago
I find many popular arguments about immigration lack nuance and are sometimes purposefully misleading.<p>I&#x27;m not fan of Trump, but he wants to institute a &#x27;points based&#x27; system, along the lines of what Canada or Australia has.<p>Immigrants to Canada tend to be fairly educated, more so than those coming to the us partly due to this policy, partly due to the irregular migrants coming to the US.<p>The article&#x27;s title and opening argument are basically inconsistent with reality: a points-based immigration system would likely mean <i>more</i> qualified migrants, not fewer.
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Anita_kissalmost 7 years ago
1. Infants are not automatically US citizen when born in the US 2. The US needs more highly qualified workers.<p>How is the birthright changing that? (argument that every baby could be the next Einstein is not sufficient)
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NTDF9almost 7 years ago
Americans probably don&#x27;t even realize how evil current administration is towards legal immigrants.<p>They are actively pushing away legal immigrants who contribute to society.<p>I don&#x27;t see the following people wanting to live in a racist, anti immigrant, anti intellectual country:<p>- Nobel Laureates (budding geniuses especially)?<p>- Top scientists?<p>- Good engineers?<p>- Medical practitioners?<p>- Researchers?<p>- People who are family oriented?<p>Can anyone imagine a well-to-do, well-educated immigrant from a good country ever wanting to deal with US immigration nonsense? Especially, if they can be kicked out or denaturalized? I certainly can&#x27;t.<p>In fact, the only people who would come to the US (now that the curtain on American racism is up) are the exact people their politicians over emphasize on aka gang members, asylum seekers, fleeing shitty conditions back home, have nothing else going on.<p>Such a paradox!
sparklingalmost 7 years ago
&gt; &quot;Cities’ productivity would increase, as would the wages of native-born high-skilled Americans, if more H-1B workers and skilled permanent residents were allowed to come.&quot;<p>Please stop with this non-sense. You can be for or against the H-1B program, i don&#x27;t care, but there is zero doubt that US citizens would be collecting way higher paychecks if the H-1B program did not exist. Thats simply supply and demand on the (tech-)labour market.
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