It seems to me that many developers care more about tools. They are happy to join any team that uses cool new technologies even if they don't care about the product they are building at all.<p>Am I wrong? Am I just a nagging idealist?
The product I'm building is a solid product and has a good market fit, but I'd be lying if I said I cared about it. We use pretty modern tools (Kube/spinnaker/opencensus, GCP/AWS/Azure/Alibaba, GRPC, redis, etc) which are interesting at first, but they all really cease to matter a few months in.<p>At least switching from one tool to another is a cool technical challenge and a good chance to rewrite some bad code, but the rest of the time is spent writing yet another RPC service.<p>Honestly I'm just here for the paycheck and location. Any company that offers me better compensation with the same work-life balance is one I'd jump ship for immediately.
I don't care so much about tools, and I don't really care about the product. I <i>do</i> care about solving problems. Does the company have problems that I'm good at solving? Are they interesting problems? (Admittedly, somewhat tied to the product.) Do they have enough of them to keep me busy for a while? They don't make missile guidance systems or ad tech? Then I don't think I care what kind of software widget we're making, when would like my first day to be?<p>Oh, I don't have "passion" for the product? Who gives a shit? I have passion for doing the best work I possibly can if I hire on to your company. Whether you're making Exciting New Whatever Tech or a boring ass old CRUD app, I will you give you my best, guaranteed. Never will you hear an excuse out of me about how the product doesn't "excite" me. <i>That's</i> what I care about, and it's what companies ought to care about when they're hiring people.
Yes, I do!<p>When I built Caddy, I actually needed a web server that met my specific needs. It HAD to work well, and when the community jumped on board to contribute, I found out I wasn't the only one with those needs.<p>Now I'm writing a file backup service for consumers like my sister and brother but also developers like myself, because I want my family to be able to preserve our memories. Existing solutions just aren't satisfying for our needs. With generations of family history and photos and lifestyle potentially on the line, you bet I care that we get it right!<p>We're not using any flashy technologies to make them. Most of it's pretty boring. But it's SO satisfying to see it working.
Let me ask you one question though - Can you think of any steps during the hiring process where the interest in a product from a candidate is highlighted?<p>Besides the usual 15 minute monologue from recruiters trying to do keywords matching, briefly talking about the company (you can google most of it). I can't remember anyone asking me about my vision regarding any products I worked on during the interview process. After that 1st phone call it's not about the product or the company anymore, it's all about testing you like a college kid getting ready for an exam. Now it's about you wanting to join their team. Not them trying to convince you to join.<p>What would be a solution? Hire people who care about the product, not only the company logo. It's cool if you know how to write a function in order to find the shortest path in a graph. It's awesome if you love using a pen on a whiteboard. How about asking you how you could improve our product? What problems do you think could be solved within a specific industry? So, looks like the hiring process has to be completely re-written.
I happen to be building tools, so yes :D<p>Seriously though, the larger industry I am in and the purpose of my employer is to make video games. I make tools to make video games. I am invested in the tools I produce. I am less invested in the types of games we make from a <i>playing them</i> perspective (in that they're not really the kinds of games I usually like to play), and don't really care or keep up with most of the public design debates etc that we often have running about our games. But I am very invested in our games from a pride-in-our-work-as-a-studio perspective. I want to help make good products, both for the teams I service through my tools development and for the end product my employer puts out to external consumers.
Yes, I wouldn't want to work on something that in the end just tries to sell more widgets, or serve more effective ads. I currently work in water management software.
I had zero emotional investment at first, but the parts I work with most grew on me. I also care a lot about the people around me. And I care a lot about the tools I am using too, I love my setup, and I'm also active in the community within the company, that's built around that toolset.<p>If I had to prioritize the above, I care about my team the most, the tools second and the actual product third.<p>To value people's care about the product, can be either very idealisic, totally misguided, or perfectly legit, very highly depending on the circumstances. Me with my team herd cattles basically, large website and infra, features come and go, tickets come from business people who themselves get orders basically. But if I were to gather people around me for the startup I'm about to start, I'd like to have them to believe that we're doing something good.
It’s one thing to not really care about the product you’re building, and another to feel uncomfortable with what you’re building. I’m in the latter boat at the moment, and after losing some sleep about it I’ve come to the conclusion that I need to get out. I’m looking for new opportunities but I have a family and can’t just walk. In the meantime I’m trying not to let my feelings effect the quality of my work or my relationships with my coworkers. It’s challenging.
So many good comments in this thread, there are several I agree strongly with (these are the highlights, but I agree with these comments entirely):<p>> Any company that offers me better compensation with the same work-life balance is one I'd jump ship for immediately.<p>> Oh, I don't have "passion" for the product? Who gives a shit? I have passion for doing the best work I possibly can if I hire on to your company.<p>> After that 1st phone call it's not about the product or the company anymore, it's all about testing you<p>> Hiring in software is completely broken.<p>> I currently work in water management software.<p>My own take: imagine I wrote all of those interesting tidbits, and eventually I see myself going back to slinging code for physics labs somewhere in the country, which is how I started. My first web dev project was a CRUD lab management application that went on to be used for years after they had bought a solution. That project really mattered and I hope to one day feel that kind of fulfillment from my code again.
I do. I’ve worked at two of the biggest companies in the games industry, I’ve made two independent iOS games, I’m now about to get into block chain related work and I’m the founder of a service that provides automated test results reporting that is growing in usage across the world. I do think the product matters, but also perhaps more importantly you need to have personal and professional growth. I realize that growth and product are not necessarily aligned but if you can make them align it’s the best.
I could frankly care less about tools. I would not work on something i do not care about, and all tools are fun to use if you are solving fun problems with a great team of coworkers.
This question took me by surprise because since I'm not a developer but a "business/marketing/product guy" the only reason I go into a project is because I do care about the product. Is so strange reading the answers.<p>I do appreciate it though, I have a new found respect for my developers that have shown again and again that they do care what we are building.
I joined a team because of the eagerness to adopt a modern devops workflow. Having a nice environment to work in as a Dev almost makes working on shit you don't care about worthwhile. I'd much rather be working in clean energy, education, or healthcare. I tell myself I'll get to those industries when I have more experience...
Both are important. The end product has to be nice/useful for deeper motivation. The tools in use can indicate the philosophy of the business and give hints about the general ambiance of the job. Who would choose to spend 40 hours per week with tools that makes them feel underproductive?
Most developers I have worked with have cared more about the product they are building than the tools, but they still care a lot about the tools because they often improve the product.
Aspects of it, sure. I'm more enthusiastic about the founders enthusiasm in the product. You can tell that he really believes in what we are building.