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The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

122 pointsby causticover 6 years ago

32 comments

reacwebover 6 years ago
He uses the wrong test. Testing on "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" is meaningless for developpers: tests should be performed using real usages like "source code of linux kernel" or "mailing list of linux kernel" to have a better balance between code and text.
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denoover 6 years ago
Sit up straight (fix your posture) and stop gluing your wrists to the desk or wrist “support” and the layout doesn’t matter unless you’re going for typing records.<p>There is no magical layout that can eliminate the tension you’re artificially creating by stretching your fingers into unnatural positions instead of just moving the entire hand.<p>What healthy typing looks like (on a horrible keyboard no less): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Vs2B5XRtr6k" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Vs2B5XRtr6k</a><p>Imagine you tried playing a piano the way you type on your keyboard: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=InqmH-o1cX0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=InqmH-o1cX0</a><p>The pain is letting you know you’re doing something wrong.
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fooblatover 6 years ago
As a full time developer who used to suffer terrible RSI pain, I solved the problem without changing keyboard layouts. After consulting with my doctor and an ergonomics expert, I realized my problems were cause by the setup of my workstation and the bad posture habits I had developed.<p>1. I would rest my palms as I typed. This turned out to be a major source of pain. Retraining myself to &quot;float&quot; my hands over the keyboard was a massive improvement.<p>2. My desk was too high &#x2F; my chair was too low. Setting up my desk so that my keyboard is as close to my lap as possible was the next big improvement. When in a seated position, my hands are very comfortable when resting on my thighs. Putting my keyboard in a drawer that is just above my thighs helped a lot.<p>3. I also switched to a trackpad instead of a mount and a split keyboard. I found this allowed a more comfortable angle for my hands and less temptation to rest my wrist while mousing.<p>After making these changes, I have been pain free for over 10 years.
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lorenzhsover 6 years ago
This looks interesting but the symbol still look very qwerty-ish. I type on Neo-2 (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Keyboard_layout#Neo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Keyboard_layout#Neo</a>), which uses ISO keyboards and primarily targets German, even though the majority of my typing is in English. Its entire third layer is for symbols that are common in programming. Layer 3 is activated via either caps-lock or the key above Right Shift, and has \&#x2F;{}* ?()-:@ as the home row, …_[]^ !&lt;&gt;=&amp; above it and #$|~` +%&quot;&#x27;; below it (there&#x27;s a picture in the Wikipedia article linked above).<p>Layer 4 (right alt or the key to the right of left shift) is also pretty cool, it has lots of navigation keys and a numblock in convenient positions, but I somehow never got around to learning that. All the layers are shown on <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neo-layout.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neo-layout.org&#x2F;</a> (in German, but that doesn&#x27;t matter for the pictures).<p>With a Trackpoint (Thinkpad USB keyboard), this means that my hands don&#x27;t have to leave the home row at all. It&#x27;s super convenient.
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floatbothover 6 years ago
&gt; Try typing “The” with the T capitalized on Colemak and hopefully you’ll see what I mean. Your right hand will move somewhat like this: you swing to the right to get the SHIFT key with your pinky, then you swing back to the left to get the letter ‘H’, and then you move to the right again to get the letter ‘E’.<p>Why would you use the right shift here?? I shift with the <i>left</i> pinky in this situation and it feels fine.<p>Colemak is just fine, and it&#x27;s already included in most operating systems.
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Loicover 6 years ago
If you are looking at alternative keyboards, I have been using the TypeMatrix 2030[0] with a transparent cover for about 10 years.<p>I am using the Dvorak layout, but I think that the main reason it is so comfortable to use is the ortho-linear layout of the keys and that it is totally flat.<p>I would recommend anybody with RSI to test first ortho-linear physical layout of the keys with your standard Qwerty or Azerty or whatever you use right now before moving to something else.<p>[0]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.typematrix.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.typematrix.com&#x2F;</a>
diimdeepover 6 years ago
Kudos for effort. But changing layout is not enough.<p>Current mainstream keyboards design is fundamentally flawed [1] and IMO obsolete because of [4].<p>Hopefully there is science [2] and much alternatives to choose from [3]<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;xahlee.info&#x2F;kbd&#x2F;keyboard_problems.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;xahlee.info&#x2F;kbd&#x2F;keyboard_problems.html</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;xahlee.info&#x2F;kbd&#x2F;ergonomic_keyboard_science.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;xahlee.info&#x2F;kbd&#x2F;ergonomic_keyboard_science.html</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;diimdeep&#x2F;awesome-split-keyboards" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;diimdeep&#x2F;awesome-split-keyboards</a><p>[4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Path_dependence" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Path_dependence</a>
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jimmy1over 6 years ago
&gt; I didn’t like the way Dvorak was laid out especially for the weak fingers of the right hand.<p>I am not sure if I only know this from playing piano and guitar, but it is surprisingly easy to strengthen those fingers. The exercise is very simple and all it takes is a couple minutes a day, it can be done anywhere (even better if you have a piano or guitar!):<p>1. Lay your fingers on a table, and curl them like you were at a keyboard or holding a small ball in your hand.<p>2. Keeping all of your other fingers on the table, lift your weaker finger, typically the ring as high as you possibly can without causing the other fingers to rise.<p>3. Bring it down as hard as you comfortably can.<p>4. Repeat 1-3 until you can lift higher and bring it down harder without affecting the other fingers.
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zafiro17over 6 years ago
I don&#x27;t have any RSI issues but I love the idea of alternative&#x2F;improved keyboards and layouts and have accidentally become kind of an aficionado&#x2F;collector. I have on permanent rotation and have written reviews of a Kinesis Ergo [0], Truly Ergonomic (TEK) [1], TypeMatrix [2], and Happy Hacker [3] and I&#x27;m looking seriously at buying an Ergodox one of these days. I happen to like and dislike each of those keyboards: each has advantages and disadvantages. Same goes for Dvorak (which I use regularly) and Colemak, etc. I&#x27;m hard pressed to say which is my favorite, but I like each for different reasons and conclude it would be impossible to combine them into any &quot;perfect,&quot; ultimate keyboard.<p>One thing that almost never comes up in these discussions is the need to change or rotate keyboards. I love the Kinesis but eventually get tired of it, and am happy to move to the TEK, which then starts to bother me until I move to the TypeMatrix, etc. Every keyboard and layout improves some part of typing while exacerbating another. Switching keeps you nimble. I suspect it&#x27;s like bicycles, of which there are infinite variations. If one bike hurts your wrists and another hurts your legs and another bothers your neck, switch every few rides.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;therandymon.com&#x2F;index.php?&#x2F;archives&#x2F;167-Typing-in-Style-with-the-Kinesis.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;therandymon.com&#x2F;index.php?&#x2F;archives&#x2F;167-Typing-in-Sty...</a> [1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;therandymon.com&#x2F;index.php?&#x2F;archives&#x2F;290-The-Truly-Ergonomic-Keyboard-TEK-Review.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;therandymon.com&#x2F;index.php?&#x2F;archives&#x2F;290-The-Truly-Erg...</a> [2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;therandymon.com&#x2F;index.php?&#x2F;archives&#x2F;295-The-TypeMatrix-2030-Ergonomic-Keyboard.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;therandymon.com&#x2F;index.php?&#x2F;archives&#x2F;295-The-TypeMatri...</a> [3] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;therandymon.com&#x2F;index.php?&#x2F;archives&#x2F;304-Review-of-the-Happy-Hacker-2-Keyboard.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;therandymon.com&#x2F;index.php?&#x2F;archives&#x2F;304-Review-of-the...</a>
QasimKover 6 years ago
A keyboard layout for programmers, which allowed the use of special characters on the home row, perhaps by using a mixed corpus of source code rather than just novels, would be interesting to see.<p>Recently, I ordered the Ultimate Hacker’s Keyboard because I think typing is quite important for a programmer, especially if you consider health as the author of this article does. I’m a little bit weary of <i>not</i> using QWERTY because of the high cost of switching, so if I did switch, I’d want to select a layout that was basically perfect for me long-term (which sounds very tough to do).
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vemvover 6 years ago
I left Colemak for Qwerty some 5 years ago. Keyboard layout matters much less than your typing technique.<p>Same thing for ergonomic keyboards - they can be a dangerous sign that you&#x27;re focusing on the wrong thing, on micro-optimizations rather than on the root cause.<p>I have no guide to share unfortunately but I&#x27;d recommend observing one&#x27;s movements, and try to figure out what&#x27;s the most natural way of doing a given thing.<p>Also, regardless of what you do, typing many hours will tire you &#x2F; be painful. Act accordingly.
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ubercow13over 6 years ago
I have been using this for ~4 years. So far I like it, it is extremely comfortable to type on and instantly felt better than eg. colemak to me, though I never learned to touch type as quickly on any other layout. However, I wish I had just stuck to qwerty in the end, as I use vim keybindings wherever possible and the extra steps needed to customise the keybinds in each application is a hassle, and sometimes not even possible.
StreakyCobraover 6 years ago
Anything other than [AQ]WERT[YZ] layout-based keyboard is already a big improvement for your fingers. The differences between Workman &#x2F; Colemak &#x2F; Dvorak and so on is mostly a matter of taste. One thing to note is that widely used layouts have more chances to be supported by software and by keyboard manufacturers (e.g. <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.typematrix.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.typematrix.com&#x2F;</a>). So it may be wiser to choose mainstream layouts that creating your own or using niche ones.<p>There is probably not a definitive answer for which one is better (&quot;better&quot; would have to be defined for this), so go ahead, read a bit about them and do your choice. Be aware though that once you have choose one, you will be stuck with it for a looong time, because switching layout is <i>hard</i>. You have to remap all your brain an muscle memory before being able to reach your previous efficiency. Spoiler alert: it takes months to years for this.<p>PS: For french speaking people, you may want to have a look at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bepo.fr" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bepo.fr</a>
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eggieover 6 years ago
The author doesn&#x27;t even learn dvorak before deciding that it doesn&#x27;t work for them. They mention don&#x27;t like how it behaves on the consonant-heavy, qwerty-optimized commands used in unix. (I have to say this is a fair evaluation, but in practice the layout somehow doesn&#x27;t encourage RSI despite the apparent awkwardness of typing unix commands on it.)<p>In result they don&#x27;t seem to understand that the dvorak layout is optimized for alternation between hands (they do mention this) <i>and</i> inward rolling motion (they don&#x27;t seem to understand this). You can really feel this when typing, and it makes typing downright enjoyable.<p>I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if much of the added distance relative to colemak and workman is probably reaching for the &quot;i&quot; with the left pointer finger. These are the easiest movements to make repeatedly, and in my experience the home row horizontal movement that they try to optimize out of workman isn&#x27;t really important.<p>People should be free and encouraged to make their own layouts to beat RSI. But, scientific measurement of what is better seems basically impossible...
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ameliusover 6 years ago
Given that micro-movements can lead to RSI, shouldn&#x27;t the goal be to make the hands move as <i>much</i> as possible instead?
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waldfeeover 6 years ago
check out QMK keyboard firmware at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;qmk&#x2F;qmk_firmware" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;qmk&#x2F;qmk_firmware</a><p>do whatever you want with layouts, macros and layers without any need for software or driver on the host machine
bnewton149over 6 years ago
My biggest issue with traditional keyboards is using non-alpha keys like the arrow keys, modifier keys, punctuation, numbers, escape, and function keys. I (sorta) solved this issue by getting an Ergodox and designing a qwerty layout[1] that made the modifier keys thumb accessible and other non-alpha keys close to the home row through layers:<p>- navigation layer: arrow keys and tab navigation on the home row.<p>- number and symbol layer: numbers on the home row, function keys one row above and punctuation one row below.<p>Its still a work in progress but I think it has helped me.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;configure.ergodox-ez.com&#x2F;keyboard_layouts&#x2F;zjdlgd&#x2F;edit" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;configure.ergodox-ez.com&#x2F;keyboard_layouts&#x2F;zjdlgd&#x2F;edi...</a>
mherrmannover 6 years ago
I feel Carpalx has a less arbitrary, more rigorous solution to this [1]. I&#x27;ve been using its QFMLWY for years. It is hugely better than QWERTY. Though as a programmer, I&#x27;m still not fully happy with the Ctrl and Shift keys being in their standard location, and thus at the weakest (pinky) finger.<p>If anyone would like to give QFMLWY a go, let me know. I have scripts to install it on Win, Mac and Ubuntu.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mkweb.bcgsc.ca&#x2F;carpalx&#x2F;?full_optimization" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mkweb.bcgsc.ca&#x2F;carpalx&#x2F;?full_optimization</a>
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roenxiover 6 years ago
It is interesting, given that the corpuses are available, that keyboard design isn&#x27;t framed as some sort of linear or nonlinear optimising problem.<p>Choose a set of tasks -&gt; plug into an optimiser -&gt; get a keyboard mapping tuned to the task you are doing. There&#x27;d be people who find that useful. The maths isn&#x27;t at all hard, the data is there.<p><i>EDIT</i> Maybe it would be a fun project to take something like top 100 C libraries from github and build up an optimised keyboard layout for C coding. It is an interesting idea.
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AprilArcusover 6 years ago
The Colemak Mod-DH family of layouts incorporates the major insight of Workman (that QWERTY v and n are lower-effort positions than QWERTY g and h) without abandoning the better elements of Colemak (common left hand shortcut keys QWAZXC remain unmoved, good hand alternation, emphasis on inward rolls).<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;colemakmods.github.io&#x2F;mod-dh&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;colemakmods.github.io&#x2F;mod-dh&#x2F;</a>
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edpichlerover 6 years ago
My thoughts:<p>- if the author of the article is moving his fingers laterally, probably he is doing something wrong (must use other fingers instead of moving, this is typewriting). Independent of the layout, this cannot happen.<p>- I believe that there is no silver bullet for keyboard layout if you write code and text, more than one language, statistics of your typing are unique for the languages you currently use.
petepeteover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m glad that alternative keyboard layouts seem to be gaining traction but I just can&#x27;t go cold turkey and move away from QWERTY.<p>The biggest annoyances for me with regular keyboards are that caps lock is a wasted key in a prime position and the F keys are too far out of the way.<p>These were solved by the HHKB and that&#x27;s what I&#x27;ll be using for the foreseeable future.
tezzaover 6 years ago
A large portion of coding is moving the cursor left, right, up, down, page up, page down, home, end<p>The arrow keys are not even shown on the layout.<p>And the selection of prose corpus (es?) is again not related to programming [Tom Sawyer].<p>We need underscores, braces, semicolon, context menu.<p>Perhaps a better metric would be the hoc compiler source from The Unix Programming Environment.
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edpichlerover 6 years ago
I moved to Dvorak year ago. Very very happy with this.<p>The pain of my hands, especially on the weakest fingers, just ended. The sad is that there are no available keyboards to buy in my country, so I always need to manually change and &#x27;fix&#x27; my new laptops, risking to break it, and I always do it very worried and careful.
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rezeroedover 6 years ago
We need keyboards with digital keys, not printed, so we can change the layouts at the click of a button.
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carapaceover 6 years ago
One neat trick (for programmers) is to switch your number row to use the symbols normally and shift to get the digits.<p>As a programmer you type those symbols way more often than digits. It&#x27;s easy to get used to and it can make a difference if you have RSI issues.
sscarduzioover 6 years ago
This is an excellent solution to a problem no programmer has. After 10 years of programming I can safely tell that, if you type the majority of your time until you make your wrists sick, you are writing shit code and you should spend more time thinking.
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rhlalaover 6 years ago
I always type faster with one hand,<p>It is common for me to type thnak you for exemple Should I be using an layout with low hand switching? Dvorak? Thanks
rhlalaover 6 years ago
I always type faster with one hand,<p>It is common for me to type thnak you for exemple...<p>I guess i should look at a layout with little hand alternance, Dvorak?<p>Thanks
INTPnerdover 6 years ago
What a stubborn Emacs user, all they had to do was switch to Vim..
lbjover 6 years ago
I love how inclusive this comment is &quot;a difference of 696 meters. It doesn’t sound like much, however if we convert it to centimeters, that’s equal to 69,600 cm&quot; :D
alpeshrathodover 6 years ago
&gt; Workman Keyboard Layout