I feel like I’ve missed the boat when it comes to home ownership here in the Bay Area. Furthermore, my wife wants stability in home ownership for our nascent family, and renting is hardly affordable, not to mention lacking in the potential for growth in equity.<p>The usual option of Austin doesn’t excite me.<p>Where else are people going that has a Tech scene?<p>Currently, I’m working as a Director of Engineering, making 300k+, but it doesn’t seem to matter; all I can afford is either under a freeway or under power lines, it seems. I don’t want to overextend across 30 years.<p>Any suggestions? I’d be happier, I think, somewhere else, with a lower paying job, incredibly, but I’m having a hard time figuring out somewhere with a good mix of weather, jobs, properties, schools.
I'm a former Bay Area startupper (Marketing/Sales early stage and a bit of product, not an engineer) and did a stint in Berlin and am currently in Tallinn (Estonia). I think for quality of life Berlin can't be beat, it's a big city but you can choose the right neighborhood for a reasonable price and get any sort of vibe you want from small town to big city hipster (okay maybe there are a few neighborhoods with the latter vibe).<p>But frankly I doubt you're going to be able to secure a gig at that pay, you'll have to decide if general quality of life is worth the monetary tradeoff. The tech scene itself is much more nascent in Berlin (and way underfunded) but you may be able to parlay your 'Silicon Valley' roots into a sweet senior gig in an innovation lab or as a senior engineer at a bigger corporate that's trying to compete with newcomers which is a big theme in German corporates right now
Have you worked with a real estate agent and lender to see what properties you could afford? You might be surprised with what you can afford.<p>I recently moved from SF to San Diego about a year ago and just bought a house. It’s not that we couldn’t afford a house in the Bay Area. Just that in SD we could afford a house in a neighborhood we’d actually want to live in.<p>It’s a different market down here. Lots of biotech and defense contractors. Primarily Java, C++, C# but you can find some ruby and php positions. I haven’t seen any python and very little node.js positions but they are out there. Startup scene is obviously much smaller but if you look hard enough you can find some great companies.
Well, nowhere you could get the SV rates. Yet, nowhere you'd be struggling on a quarter a million.<p>There is tech beyond SV. My current company is distributed between a second tier city in Croatia and a semi-rural town in NZ. We are in the end-of-life tech, and are taking the Advisor track at Startup School.<p>Times when you had no tech other than ol' skool corporate IT beyond SV, London, and a few other spots are gone. My current city, Osijek, a second tier city has some amazing tech that is quite prominent globally. Farmeron (AgTech) was founded here and later acquired, <a href="https://www.netocratic.com/farmeron-closes-gideon-brother-111385" rel="nofollow">https://www.netocratic.com/farmeron-closes-gideon-brother-11...</a> . Infobip (telco infrastructure software) was founded in a semi rural town in Istria region in Croatia.<p>Don't overlook Eastern Europe. Estonia, Czech, Romania, Poland got amazing tech scenes, and the life is good.<p>If you work remotely, options are even more abundant.<p>Don't mind that SV is actually quite vulnerable and gets hit badly by recessions, bursts, etc.<p>As of the US. New Mexico, Colorado, Washington, are all quite livable.
SLC, Utah is pretty great, I almost don’t want to mention it because the tech jobs are great and the state provides a lot to do.. its like a hidden gem no one thinks about because they consider it Mormon land...<p>There are a lot of companies opening offices out here though!
I did a year in Berlin and tend to agree with Peter Thiels assessment - “I always thought Berlin would be a great place for innovation, but now I think it’s a place people in their 20s move to when they want to retire”<p>Personally I had a lot of good times in Berlin, but it didn't feel like it had the drive of the valley.<p>Recently moved to Toronto, and loving it here so far. Great scene, smart & friendly people and lots of growth.<p>Not trying to badmouth Berlin, it's a super cool city. Just didn't hit the mark for me.<p><a href="https://business.financialpost.com/technology/torontos-tech-scene-gets-hotter-beating-san-francisco-bay-area-in-new-jobs-and-new-york-in-talent" rel="nofollow">https://business.financialpost.com/technology/torontos-tech-...</a>
Portland has a thriving tech scene with 4,782 open jobs [1] at the moment. Home prices are about a third of the median in SF/SV.<p>[1] <a href="http://portlandtech.org/" rel="nofollow">http://portlandtech.org/</a>
We left the Bay Area two years ago and went to Prague. I miss Philz and Blue Bottle but we are pretty happy here. Similar scene as Berlin - not quite as nice but cheap with lots of green space everywhere. If your wife has an EU passport you should be fine anywhere in Europe. I'm freelancing for clients in the Bay Area and east coast (software eng) so I'm lucky to have best of both worlds.<p>I would imagine you have a good network of people in tech so you could probably transition to freelance work and live anywhere. Email me if you want to discuss. Co-work spaces here are anywhere from $100 - $500/mo. Internet is so blazing fast it's ridiculous - 300mbs on ethernet in our apartment. What we had in SF was pathetic.<p>Condo prices in central Prague are about $4,500usd/m2 - so 500k usd will get you a nice 2 bedroom in a really nice neighborhood. For the same money you can move 20 minutes by train outside the center and get a small house with a yard.<p>If you are leaning towards Europe the best tech scenes IMO are in Berlin, Amsterdam and Barcelona. Barcelona has really been picking up in the last few years and is probably the cheapest.
I make similar salary and have a nice 3000sqft house that I paid $1mn for in the Bay Area. Areas where you can still buy SFH just around a million include Oakland Hills, Orinda, Walnut Creek, Union City, Dublin, Hayward parts of San Jose. Try to find a new construction so that you don't have to deal with competition
If you are relocating to Europe, Amsterdam is great.<p>The economy is good, the tech scene is already good and booming. A lot of local startups, bigger and bigger local companies and the typical international tech startups are here.<p>Salary are lower but the cost of life too and you'll live way better here. Home prices, groceries, restaurants/bars and travels are mostly cheaper. I'd say I spend almost half in Amsterdam than what I was spending in SF, for a pretty similar life style.
This sounds true to most of my friends who did the same move.<p>Everyone speaks english, so you won't have to rush to learn Dutch. There are great english-speaking private schools that you'll be able to afford, or free Dutch schools, to which your kids will adapt very quick if they are still young.
I've heard good things about Dublin. Anyone here on HN able to speak from direct experience?<p>Personally live in Seattle and love it, but I got in before the major boom and it is not nearly as affordable as 5-10 years ago. Still think it is a major upgrade to SF, though.
I think the biggest question is how long do you want to commute? If you are willing to do the 70-90m daily commute then their are plenty of areas on central nj and pa that are commutable to NYC.<p>and 300k a year will buy you a large homestead in those areas.
Look into Ottawa.<p>Ottawa is a great place to raise a family, coffee (specifically little victories, happy goat, and black squirrel) and food culture is fantastic, great city for outdoor activities such as biking, rowing, hiking, etc..., very dog friendly city, 2 hours away from Montreal, 4.5 from Toronto.<p>Not sure about tech salaries but I'm sure with your experience you can negotiate something similar.<p>If you're looking for a Bay Area vibe I'd say the glebe is as close as you can get.
Have you considered getting a private pilot license? That should cost around a month of your salary, and open up a much longer commute without adding time… at least, that’s the impression I’ve had when considering the Bay Area.
I've seen Los Angeles being called 'silicon beach' (around Venice and Santa Monica) and I've read that the Midwest (Omaha I think) is being referred to as 'silicon prairie'.
The idea that home ownership guarantees growth is a fallacy. In most cities prices only keep up with inflation.<p>Ergo you are financially better off renting, and investing the money you would have spent on a house.
Lot of good stuff happening in Scottsdale and Tempe Arizona. Cost of living is fantastic.<p>Lehi, Utah as others have mentioned is great too. I moved from there back to AZ to escape the show though.
Cost of living is not much better but I'm personally partial to Boston and you can get houses in the surrounding bedroom communities for not too bad. If you don't mind going North of Boston, southern New Hampshire has a lot to offer but the tech scene is still pretty small.
Miami, Tampa, Orlando. Cost of living is low in Florida. Although you wont make as much as SV, you will live very well. Plenty of family friendly picture perfect communities for young professionals.
With respect, Austin is full. We don’t need any more ex-Californites moving here and driving up real estate prices even further. Thanks!<p>You’re welcome to visit anytime you like, however.