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CERN suspends physicist after his science-and-gender talk

74 pointsby kushtiover 6 years ago

14 comments

Insanityover 6 years ago
This was discussed here previously: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18112125" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18112125</a>
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orbifoldover 6 years ago
I think he had personal reasons for giving this talk. He links to a presentation given by Anna Ceresole (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.weizmann.ac.il&#x2F;stringuniverse&#x2F;sites&#x2F;stringuniverse&#x2F;files&#x2F;the_string_theory_universe.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.weizmann.ac.il&#x2F;stringuniverse&#x2F;sites&#x2F;stringunivers...</a>) at the latest STRINGS conference in 2018 on gender equality. In that presentation they explain how they created a European Network of female string theory researchers (virtually unknown to me, never seen a paper by them, whereas in the US there are a lot of very good female string theorists Cvetic, Silverman etc.) with the explicit goal of increasing the number of females in permanent positions. The chair of that EU funded network Silvia Penati apparently hired Anna Ceresole for a professorship that Allessandro Strumia also applied for.<p>There is a stark difference in the number of citations Ceresole (~3000) and Strumia (~30000) have, and Strumia has roughly double the number of first author papers. So on the face of it this seems like a very bad case of unfair &#x2F; biased hiring practice.
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vildaover 6 years ago
The presentation: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drive.google.com&#x2F;file&#x2F;d&#x2F;1c_NyUhOZ8erdqU2AGZJZtNfFeA91Kefj&#x2F;view" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drive.google.com&#x2F;file&#x2F;d&#x2F;1c_NyUhOZ8erdqU2AGZJZtNfFeA9...</a><p>Some good points. The proper scientific answer is a peer-review, not a suspension.<p>When science and politics collide, politics always win. Science needs an environment free of politics.
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thisagainx9999over 6 years ago
Time for everyone to open up the tin can where we keep our opinions. At this point there&#x27;s a passive background level of gender politics which seeps into every conversation at a constant rate like clicks in a geiger counter. Depending on the facts and narrative, the same people and publications hold up their news articles as vindication. &quot;look look! sexism is still a big deal&quot; say team sjw on this article. A few months back it was &quot;look look! sjws really are being unreasonable&quot; as the demore controversy unfolded. metoo became a bit of a wash, with points going to both sides. Kavanaugh sits on our tounges right now as we try to decide if his controversy falls into gender politics or just normal politics. No minds are changed, just different subsets of people get slightly quieter for the 2 week news cycle. Its the exact same mechanic as the gun debate. One group waits for school shootings to say &quot;ban assault guns&quot;, and the other group waits for trucks to plow through crowds to mock the first group with &quot;ban assault trucks&quot;.<p>Call me privileged or whatever, but this whole thing is a sideshow. It moves votes and sells papers and nothing more. I wonder if this is what it felt like in France during the Dreyfus affair.
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matteuanover 6 years ago
The rector of his University has started ethical proceedings against him: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unipi.it&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;english-news&#x2F;item&#x2F;13316-note-of-the-rector-of-the-university-of-pisa-ethical-proceedings-against-alessandro-strumia" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unipi.it&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;english-news&#x2F;item&#x2F;13316-note-...</a>
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randyrandover 6 years ago
If this continues to be the response to a reasoned talk about gender differences, I fear trump-like characters will continue to gain ground.<p>arguments should be fought with better arguments.
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iguyover 6 years ago
I especially like the last paragraph:<p>&gt; “I don’t think he represents the majority view,” Covi said. “There were a few men who were there but they didn’t support his view.”<p>After all, none of her friends stepped forward to object that she wasn&#x27;t a witch. Before or after we burned her!
xupybdover 6 years ago
Very hard to tell what was said and what happened from that article.
randyrandover 6 years ago
seems like there are good arguments that he makes that deserve well reasoned responses.
dvfjsdhgfvover 6 years ago
having read the whole presentation, I&#x27;m very surprised to read the article. What&#x27;s on the slides doesn&#x27;t match the content of the article.<p>Also, I find it ironic that he mentions people fired because of similar opinions on the slide 24, and then gets suspended for the same reason. Could we at least have an honest, open discussion about the content rather than silencing the (currently) non-mainstream views?
sitepodmattover 6 years ago
I read through the slides briefly, is it just an analysis of the current state of affairs? I can&#x27;t quite tell to be honest, a lot of jargon there that&#x27;s over my head, but I worry if those complaining fall into the same boat as me, in that there might not be nothing sexist there but now we can&#x27;t discuss it in scientific terms now because the mere discussion point is sexist in itself.
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yAnonymousover 6 years ago
He does bring up valid arguments and deserves a scientific response.<p>The people who complain about this and instead of refuting his points instantly cry out make themselves look bad.
kork__over 6 years ago
Physicists have been the canary in the coal mine for societies.<p>From being expelled from Nazi Germany for Jewish physics.<p>To being dissidents in the USSR for their anti-nuclear stance.<p>To being killed in the cultural revolution for being bourgeoisie collaborators.<p>To being painted as communists in the US for their anti-nuclear views during the second red scare and their their pro-climate change views more recently.<p>Somehow I don&#x27;t see this ending well for gender studies.
gerlandover 6 years ago
It&#x27;s just overwhelming how this sexist narrative is globally accepted. Being a man was never easy to begin with, but things like that are really discouraging.
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