They just don't get it ... Java sucks so badly for desktop development, it's not even funny.<p><pre><code> It also didn't help that the early ports that they did were heavily
customized - far more than they needed to be.
</code></pre>
This also reminds me of what Gosling said about Eclipse ...<p><pre><code> [Talking about Netbeans] To us, Eclipse feels like something very "me
too" and derivative, backed up by a really strange marketing campaign
</code></pre>
Also on Eclipse's SWT:<p><pre><code> The SWT thing was just...it pissed me off beyond words.
...
It has all the AWT problems: it's way simple, it doesn't port very well.
</code></pre>
Also on .NET's support for C++:<p><pre><code> [This] has left open a security hole large enough to drive many, many
large trucks through</code></pre>
<i>It also didn't help that the early ports that they did were heavily customized - far more than they needed to be</i><p>I respectfully submit that the man who thought AWT was an acceptable GUI toolkit doesn't have a leg to stand on here.
Sun to developers: "With Java you can write once and run anywhere!"<p>Sun to OS vendors: "Hey, we just promised developers they can run Java on your platforms. Now you go make it happen!"<p>Apple to Sun: "... you!"
I think he is saying that Oracle caused a lot of headaches for Apple in the past so Apple is returning the favor by trying to force them to support Java on their platform.Who knows how this will play out, but it will be interesting since many Java developers use Macs.
Until we know what Oracle is gonna do about this, all the talk is useless right now.<p>The fact that they split the feature-set for JDK7 due to time restrictions (aka plan b for jdk8) does not make me feel confident about them being able to throw out another VM for a different platform so quickly.
Gruber, very interesting, point of view:<p>"Here’s my question, though: If Mac OS X 10.7 ships without a working Java JVM, will you be able to write Android apps using a Mac?"<p><a href="http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/10/22/gosling-java-mac-os-x" rel="nofollow">http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/10/22/gosling-java-mac...</a>
Please forgive my ignorance, but wasn't Google sued by Oracle over issues regarding Google's implementation of the Java VM? It just sounds natural that other companies would be less motivated to maintain their implementations...
J. Gosling's point isn't entirely clear to me, either. I came away with the impression that Oracle is a difficult company to deal with. Perhaps he's trying to draw a line between Oracle being difficult and Apple deciding they no longer want to do their own port. I supposes that's possible.<p>Still, it seems more likely that Apple decided that the cost of maintaining the Java port on OS X simply wasn't worth it. In the same manner that they decided that nobody wanted to use Flash on their smart-phones, they've decided that nobody wants to use Java on their laptops or workstations.
It does sound like from reading Gosling that Apple did this as a way to poke Oracle in the eye. The Mac has potentially become a large enough platform now that it seems Apple thinks they can leverage it against others. There is such a thing as overplaying a hand which I think Apple is dangerously close to doing (i.e. read their new mac app store rules).<p>What did strike me about the announcement though was how nonchalantly it was made. I have to think this was on purpose given how masterful Apple normally is with their marketing. So that leads to the question of why? Was Apple in talks with Oracle that broke down so they simply called Oracles bluff?<p>By the way, all of the knee jerk reactions have been very amusing. Reading comments and stories about it yesterday made me think Apple came down and removed Java from every Mac in existence :)
The time is certainly ripe for a better language to step in and make cross-platform desktop application development easier. Seems like most anything you use (barring C++) necessitates shipping 20mb of dependencies.<p>I miss the pay for what you use model.
"[...] Microsoft violated their contract and made Java code written on Windows unable to run on other systems."<p>More precisely, Microsoft violated their contract when they added classes and methods in the "java" top-level package (namespace) and failed to implemented some mandatory parts of the specification (mandatory as per the contract), such as RMI.<p>Source: <a href="http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-10-1997/jw-10-lawsuit.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-10-1997/jw-10-lawsuit....</a>
sad to see that all these years I've been bragging around, and happy to do so, with my macbook doing java dev. Finally I had a nice machine, cute os to work. Sad that some day a big corp will tell me that now it's windows or nothing. Sad to feel like apple is letting us down.