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Five Years That Changed Dating

109 pointsby lnguyenover 6 years ago

17 comments

staredover 6 years ago
Side note - does anyone know why did OKCupid get &quot;tinderfied&quot;? I mean:<p>- requires real first name (bad if you name is too common or too rare; also, it was cool and a great discussion starter) EDIT: real names by default<p>- messages only after likes (it changes the dynamics a lot; before I got much more interesting discussions)<p>- option to swipe (fortunately, still it is possible to search)<p>Vide:<p>- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.marketwatch.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;why-these-women-are-quitting-okcupid-after-it-required-daters-to-use-their-real-names-on-the-site-2017-12-26" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.marketwatch.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;why-these-women-are-quitti...</a><p>- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;OkCupid&#x2F;comments&#x2F;7pv9mp&#x2F;ladies_of_okcupid_how_are_you_liking_the_recent&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;OkCupid&#x2F;comments&#x2F;7pv9mp&#x2F;ladies_of_o...</a><p>- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theblog.okcupid.com&#x2F;why-okcupid-is-changing-how-you-message-f14d492e7853" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theblog.okcupid.com&#x2F;why-okcupid-is-changing-how-you-...</a> (may make sense for some mainstream, basing their judgments of appearance... but then - why not Tinder? plus, it is easy to filter too short or repetitive messages, so if OKC only wanted to solve that, it would be a piece of cake)<p>My two cynical guesses are:<p>a) there is a Tinder mole in OKC<p>b) since they are owned by the same group, there will be a post showing it was natural to join two (effectively killing OKC)
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staredover 6 years ago
The lack of kindness on Tinder is a know problem - so many female friends showed me outright rude screenshots, especially after these women said they are feminist, or turned down some sex offer. But... why not introduce some rating? (As in Uber or so.)<p>I know it sounds Black Mirror-ish, but if it would penalize rude guys, it would be a win for everyone (incentive + filtering + hetero-women more interested in using this app.)
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village-idiotover 6 years ago
First: I think that dating apps are fantastic for small sub populations that might otherwise have a hard time meeting each other. Grindr, JSwipe, MuzMatch, etc.<p>But for the larger population, I’m not sure that apps like Tinder are a good idea. For every few positive stories, including the ones in the article, there seems to be dozens of stories of misogynistic rants, unsolicited dick picks, and worse. Men appear to suffer pretty bad on the match ratio with the vast majority of matches going to a minority of men, while women appear to suffer the majority of the abuse.<p>It seems pretty inefficient, and I’m kind of amazed that everyone seems to have an unspoken agreement to keep using these apps.
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blakesterzover 6 years ago
These comments are pretty interesting, especially the &quot;80&#x2F;20&quot; and the &quot;top x% of men&quot;. Assuming those are both at least partially true... I can&#x27;t help but think the rankings change within 5 years of being married. That is, what women (probably men too) want when they&#x27;re dating (or browsing potential matches on apps) changes quite a bit after they&#x27;re married and have kids.<p>That is to say, things that match you on apps don&#x27;t keep you happy for the next several decades. Maybe an example would be something like &quot;he&#x27;s cute and has a good job&quot; is boyfriend material, but ten years later &quot;all he does is work&quot; really gets old fast.<p>Not meaning to generalize at all with this, just some thoughts based on what I&#x27;ve seen around my social groups.
bachmeierover 6 years ago
As someone that has been married for 16 years (and not looking for someone for considerably longer than that) this sounds like a giant leap for mankind. A market of other people who signal that they are also looking, but whom you are unlikely to ever interact with again if it doesn&#x27;t work out.
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whateveracctover 6 years ago
The way HN talks about the macro-&quot;economics&quot; of dating and marriage skeeves me out. A very impersonal way of talking about a very human and personal topic.
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rococodeover 6 years ago
I think the 80&#x2F;20 problem - the top 80% of women matching with top 20% of men [1] - is a major issue preventing dating (not hookups) with current apps. Most of my guy friends who use Tinder swipe right very generously because they don&#x27;t match frequently, while my girl friends swipe conservatively since they match pretty much every other guy (or when they need a bit of an ego boost, they can just spam right swipes for a string of matches).<p>I believe the key problem is the high visibility of profile pictures, which makes it easy to stick to unrealistically high expectations for the physical attractiveness of people you&#x27;re willing to talk with. This is reinforced by the constant stream of pictures - when you&#x27;re swiping right on the couple of really attractive people every 15-20 profiles, it&#x27;s much easier to swipe left on people who aren&#x27;t unattractive to you, but just don&#x27;t reach that level &quot;ok this person is super hot&quot;. In other words, &quot;super interesting and decent-looking&quot;, while traditionally a good combination, probably doesn&#x27;t do particularly well on dating apps.<p>The 80&#x2F;20 problem, then, comes from the fact that guys swipe right more often than girls, so girls end up matching with a ton of top 20% great-looking guys and feel no need to swipe on the other 80% of guys even though they often never have conversations that go anywhere (at least that&#x27;s my impression from seeing the smokin hot dudes that my girl friends match with). To be honest, this seems fine for hookups, where you mostly care about physical appearance &#x2F; attraction. But for longer relationships, I think there&#x27;s a real lack of effective &quot;modern&quot; options.<p>What I&#x27;d like to see is an app where you don&#x27;t get to see any pictures until you&#x27;ve initiated a conversation (of some minimum length) with a person. So while browsing profiles, you just get a short bio and some demographic information. I also personally think it&#x27;d be nice to filter for certain broad categories (education - for example, same school for college-age folks, income, ethnicity, etc), because intuitively I think people tend to end up with people from similar overall backgrounds - but I can see how that could cause problems. Regardless, I think an app where you at least don&#x27;t see photos of the person you&#x27;re talking to until a certain amount of conversation would be great. It would deal with a number of issues:<p>1. the 80&#x2F;20 problem with respect getting any kind of conversation going is largely solved, as I believe that stems from people having profile pictures to quickly decide yes&#x2F;no<p>2. by showing photos at some point, you still take into account the importance of physical attraction, but this time a person&#x27;s image is backed by some level of existing rapport<p>3. you make a higher commitment to each person you talk to since you have to talk a certain amount to see what they look like<p>4. you&#x27;re more likely to match with people who have shared values and interests since you have to actually talk with them<p>5. people are more likely to send messages since without pictures, there&#x27;s never a feeling of &quot;oh this person is out of my league, no point sending a message&quot;<p>It&#x27;s not perfect but I think it&#x27;d be a good start for non-hookup dating apps compared to the current choices. (if you agree with my thoughts and have some spare time pls feel free to make something like that haha)<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@worstonlinedater&#x2F;tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@worstonlinedater&#x2F;tinder-experiments-ii-g...</a> (not really a rigorous study but the reasoning makes sense)
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hutzlibuover 6 years ago
What I think is very interesing is how Onlinedating is percieved in different groups:<p>While other groups of people I know everybody is on tinder, but in my local area(germany) a friend of mine is actually ashamed to admit that he met his new date through tinder..<p>And well, I do not think it is something to be ashamed of, but persanally I also think, that you meet dates in real life.
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booleandilemmaover 6 years ago
All women are going after the same top x% of men, so most men miss out. Men are a lot less picky, but the women they’re interested in are too determined on being with the top x% to be interested in them.<p>I think all problems with dating and finding love in general can be shown to stem from this.<p>The obvious solution is to send the top x% of men off to war. Sorry guys ;)
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throwawayasdfghover 6 years ago
I&#x27;d like to make a couple of comments to put things into perspective.<p>First, this is all US-based. Granted, Tinder is a thing here in Europe but as far as I know the overwhelming majority of sexual encounters here still occurs in meatspace. I do believe online dating only caters to a certain demographic with a certain personality type and the market will be eventually saturated.<p>Likewise, &#x27;dating&#x27; as most people know it is primarily an American concept. Due to the cultural influence the US has over the world, this concept has been imported&#x2F;distorted here (to my dismay, but that&#x27;s more of a personal view), but the concept of repeatedly taking someone else out until things evolve or devolve (first base, second base, whatever) is just not the norm everywhere in the world. In many places people just hit it off first, then &#x27;date&#x27; later. There are also things like arranged marriages, &#x27;debutante balls&#x27;, and so on.<p>Also, it bears repeating that online dating, in its current implementation, is a privacy nightmare rife with plenty of repulsive and shady practices [1]. There&#x27;s plenty of research done about this, but what I find worrying is that researchers may request access to <i>the entirety of everyone&#x27;s conversations with everyone else</i>, complete with username and location database, as well as the history of matches, dismissals, and so on. Likewise, Tinder execs harvest all this precious and intimate data for advertisers with little concern for security or privacy.<p>It also reveals worrying trends about society. Research has shown that &quot;the average woman’s desirability drops from the time she is 18 until she is 60. For men, desirability peaks around 50 and then declines.&quot; Likewise with education, &quot;desirability is associated with education most strongly for men, for whom more education is always more desirable. For women, an undergraduate degree is most desirable; postgraduate education is associated with decreased desirability among women.&quot; [2] As for ethnicity: &quot;there is also a clear and consistent dependence on ethnicity, with Asian women and white men being the most desirable potential mates by our measures&quot;. Black women and Asian men would be the least desirable. (For information, desirability is usually computed by giving everyone a score, usually derived from a PageRank-like method or something like an Elo rating.)<p>I get that people working behind the scenes are not trendsetters and only follow what is currently the norm to maximize user engagement, but in this age of reckoning about big tech and privacy, perhaps now is the time to imagine a product that actually caters to people into dating instead of selling their information, doing creepy data mining and compelling them to stay on the apps?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18713837" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18713837</a><p>[2] Aspirational pursuit of mates in online dating markets (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;advances.sciencemag.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;4&#x2F;8&#x2F;eaap9815" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;advances.sciencemag.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;4&#x2F;8&#x2F;eaap9815</a>)
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emberdemonoidover 6 years ago
I haven&#x27;t seen anyone here put together, why women are so picky with online dating. I admit that it&#x27;s easy to say &quot;well, because they can, d&#x27;uh&quot;, but that is not what I see when I talk to women about dating men.<p>When men complain about bad matches, what they usually mean is that the woman turned out to be boring or not as good looking, hell maybe she even had a kid that she never mentioned.<p>I hardly hear women complain about that. What I hear is that they didn&#x27;t want to go on a date or maybe wanted to leave one and in response got insults, threats of violence&#x2F;murder, maybe even someone trying to get handsy if they actually met in meatspace.<p>So the minor factor of &quot;if a woman dates too many men, she&#x27;s a slut&quot; aside, if women are not picky, they are in danger of getting physically assaulted. If they just reply nicely online and don&#x27;t agree to a first date, they &quot;only&quot; risk getting insulted and threatened. And having someone stalk you because you rejected them on Tinder doesn&#x27;t happen often, but it happens.<p>So why on earth would they not be picky? What is their incentive to be open to opportunities? Of course they wait until they have strong indicators that this guy might be the right one or is at least worth the risk.<p>The image of a single woman floating in this sea of open opportunities that I see here is very romantic. Sadly most of them feel like taking a swim in a pond full of piranhas because they were promised, one of them is a cursed prince.<p>Edit: Reading this again, I should mention, that I am aware that not every man responds violently to rejection. I am aware of that. Sadly, it&#x27;s not single cases only either and a minority here is enough to make the situation scary.
ameliusover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m still waiting for an app that matches based on DNA, or scent (pheromones), or both.
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qqnover 6 years ago
The absolute best thing about this piece is learning that there&#x27;s a woman out there somewhere named Holly Wood.
robertAngstover 6 years ago
EDIT: Married since 2012 here:<p>At first glance, Tinder sounded like some end game dating opportunity.<p>While its first users were embarrassed to say they were doing online dating, I reassured them- Its fine! Find your SO!<p>Years later, it seems to have turned into a world of unmet expectations.<p>When its incredibly easy to find a date, people don&#x27;t seem to try as hard to make things work. They find flaws and compare. The worst offenders never seem to be happy.<p>Admittedly, it might have also further shrunk the pool of &quot;the good ones&quot;, where the only people left have bad jobs, drug problems, and incredibly high expectations.<p>On another note, I&#x27;m wondering how it has changed Sex. It seems sex has never been easier to have due to these dating apps. I wonder if people will be able to settle down.
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fromthestartover 6 years ago
&gt;Dating apps originated in the gay community; Grindr and Scruff...launched in 2009 and 2010, respectively<p>This is just untrue. Plenty of Fish launched in 2003. Okcupid in 2004. Both clearly listed on wikipedia. What is going on with modern journalism? I&#x27;m supposed to put faith in the rest of the article, when the author can&#x27;t get basic facts straight?<p>What I&#x27;d really like to see is a piece on how dehumanizing the online dating game is for men. Yeah, women complain about being sex objects, but all men online are treated with a heavy suspicion of wanting only sex.<p>I think there&#x27;s a greater developing problem in Western society with hypergamy, but no one is paying any attention to the bottom 20-30% of men who are involuntarily single, and it&#x27;s only going to get worse, as the idea of male privilege breaks further into the mainstream while ignoring the relative difficulty that modern men increasingly have with romantic fulfilment.<p>Romantic companionship is part of Maslow&#x27;s Heirarchy for a reason. Having a substantial proportion of the populous lonely and depressed because of unfulfillment of a basic need can&#x27;t be good for society.<p>And this isn&#x27;t as easy as simply working on oneself when hypergamy is shifting female standards further and further out of reach of the average male.<p>Perhaps it is time for women to start checking their own privilege.
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jarmitageover 6 years ago
Perhaps you should educate yourself about the fallacious logic and death cult-ism of incel:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=fD2briZ6fB0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=fD2briZ6fB0</a>
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golemotronover 6 years ago
How are OkCupid and Tinder preventing trafficking on their platforms?<p>Even of a loose reading of FOSTA makes them a target for federal action.