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Ask HN: How to found a company as a single founder?

446 pointsby nnsover 6 years ago
As a single founder with a strong idea, how would you about founding your startup and possibly attracting co-founders and talent to work with you.

62 comments

gameguy43over 6 years ago
You don&#x27;t have to have superpowers.<p>You just have to have some product sense, some engineering chops, and the ability to take 6 months off (not everyone can afford this, and that sucks) to build the thing and see if you can get people to look at it and buy it.<p>You&#x27;ll learn all the other stuff along the way (taxes, marketing, and eventually: hiring). Just give it a shot. If you run out of savings and have to go back to work, in interviews you&#x27;ll get to say you &quot;did a startup.&quot;<p>My company is bootstrapped. It isn&#x27;t growing fast enough to fit PG&#x27;s definition of a startup, but it&#x27;s 5 years old and makes 7 figures.<p>Realizing after a few months that I didn&#x27;t have to do a &quot;startup&quot; really helped. Whew, no more putzing with decks, trying to figure out how to get into an incubator, trying to raise funds, trying to convince one of my friends to quit their job and be my cofounder, &quot;hustling&quot;, committing myself to never sleeping again. I could just focus on building a great product.<p>And I think my company worked because I was product focused. In the early days I just thought a lot about what the &#x2F;best possible&#x2F; solution to the problem I was solving would look like, built what I saw, put it in front of friends (and eventually strangers from the internet), and made tweaks based on their feedback (and things they didn&#x27;t say but that I noticed about how they used it).<p>This is contrary to the &quot;sell first&quot; idea--when I tried to cold pitch friends on my product idea they all said &quot;eh, I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;d really use it over the existing solutions.&quot; Those same friends asked me to comp their accounts a couple years later.<p>It worked for me. &quot;Sell first&quot; might be more important if you&#x27;re selling to businesses? But like, getting the &quot;x first&quot; part wrong for a few months probably isn&#x27;t going to kill you. Just start doing stuff. Wiggle around in your space until things start to catch.
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orasisover 6 years ago
Serial single founder here. Start building and start selling. If you can’t deliver a product to a paying customer solo then you’re not cut out to be a sole founder.
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kristiandupontover 6 years ago
It&#x27;s still too early to declare my new project a success but compared to several failures, it seems like I&#x27;ve finally cracked the code.<p>There are a number of things I am doing differently this time, but the most significant seems to be that I am now using a coach. This would have made me laugh earlier but it&#x27;s been great value to me. As a single founder, it can be very hard to stick to commitments and keep a clear vision. So I take calls with my coach every two or three weeks to discuss priorities and goals for next time. She will then ping me regularly and keep me committed -- and call me on my bullshit if I try to weasel out of something.<p>It feels like some sort of life-cheat-code. I say something that I want to happen on the phone, and then it happens! It doesn&#x27;t just apply to my business, for instance I&#x27;ve finally managed to meditate consistently because of her. I wish I had discovered this years ago! :-)
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c-smileover 6 years ago
I am solo founder and developer of Sciter Engine : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sciter.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sciter.com</a><p>The project got first customers in 2005 so it is afloat 13 years so far. Until 2014 it was a side project. Since then I am working on it full time as a solo founder and developer.<p>Initial version was pretty simple so I was able to do it after official work hours and at weekends. Thus I didn&#x27;t need any funding at that time.<p>The project has definitely over grown single person model now so I am actively looking for partners, cooperation, investors, teams, etc.<p>So are couple of advices:<p>1. If you can do it initially as a side project - consider this option first. Could be hard but will minimize negative budget impact and other risks.<p>2. The project shall reach the stage of minimal viable products in not more than 9 months. For many reasons.<p>3. You should do it in modular architecture: if first one will not take off you will have ready to use components for the next one.
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MattRogishover 6 years ago
Your three superpowers as a solo founder need to be:<p>1) Deep expertise and network with potential customers<p>2) Ability to empathize and connect with your customers and sell the thing<p>3) Ability to build some sort of MVP<p>The deep expertise and empathy will allow you to hone in on the problem you know your customers will face, and so you can narrow down the &quot;paradox of choice&quot; of different features&#x2F;products you can build. It&#x27;ll give you a much better starting point for experimentation and iteration. Start small. Talk to these folks. Get people to validate your idea. If you don&#x27;t have an existing network where you can talk to 30-50 customers (100 is better!), this will be a problem.<p>The empathy and salespersonship will allow you to get folks to give you feedback and&#x2F;or pre-sell the thing. Maybe do consulting for them to earn revenue and testimonials. If you can&#x27;t sell this, you&#x27;re going to have a hard time.<p>Finally, you need to be able to build something that delivers value to your customers. You don&#x27;t have to be the world&#x27;s greatest programmer (actually, if you were that might hurt you more than it helps!) but you do need some programming chops. Maybe it&#x27;s automation around an existing process (a chatbot that does something small). Or even a spreadsheet. Maybe it&#x27;s a full-blown MVP. Either way, you don&#x27;t have the revenue to pay a developer, and sharing context with someone that you can afford is likely very very difficult.<p>If you don&#x27;t have these things, this will be really, really tough. If you do, it will still be very tough, but you have a much better chance of being successful.<p>Find a network of solopreneurs - either something local to you (where you can meet up periodically) or an online group. This will be invaluable as you run into challenges they solved, and then you can pay it forward for the people that will walk your path later. And, having a place to vent with empathetic folk will help keep you sane.<p>If you need any help, I&#x27;m happy to share my experiences solo-bootstrapping my company to 20+ people. Just email me matt [dot] rogish [at] gmail<p>Good luck!
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cruciniover 6 years ago
Many intelligent comments in this thread; let me point out the underacknowledged.<p>You are limited by who you are. By your appearance, mannerisms, speech patterns. Your clothing, body language, grooming and hygiene. Your ingrained habits of action, speech and thought. Your age - foolish excitable youth or cramped, ossified old age. Your network and resume. Some of this can be improved, some can&#x27;t.<p>It all sets an upper bound on your potential, but you could fall far short of this due to bad luck or bad execution. Almost nobody will be honest with you about any of this. Which means savvy observers may see your limits very quickly, but will not tell you.<p>Trust is a huge factor, and again, people will not be up front about this. A solo startup has a huge legitimacy gap if selling to big companies. You could just vanish, go on vacation, get sick, steal the company&#x27;s data, sue the company claiming to be a de facto employee.<p>So acquire signals of legitimacy aggressively. Sell anything to a big corporation or government agency, no matter how small and out of your specialty, and you have a bragging point. Join industry associations. Get an advisory board with the right resumes. (All this assumes b2b).<p>If you are not likeable, you will have great difficulty selling. That includes pitching to investors, attracting co-founders, employees and beta testers.<p>Every time you have contact with a salesman - that includes missionaries, military recruiters, etc. - note down what they did that worked and didn&#x27;t work. The common denominator I&#x27;ve seen in the good salesman is 1) being likeable and 2) understanding my particular situation.<p>If you see <i>any</i> way to get objective feedback on <i>you</i>, not the company - do it. For instance, bring a savvy observer on a sales call. He can be an investor, a salesman from one of your suppliers, or a paid advisor. I personally stumbled into that situation and benefited from it.<p>Maybe I&#x27;m overstating this because plenty of seemingly dislikeable people started successful companies.
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systematicalover 6 years ago
I&#x27;ve done it twice. The first time because I was so young. I&#x27;m not even sure &quot;startup&quot; was in our vocabulary in 2006. Oh boy I wish I would&#x27;ve had a founder to help me out. I had no idea how to monetize all the traffic I was getting. I learned to code while building the website, so things were pretty shotty. What could have been...<p>The second time I had to ditch my partner. I found him stealing money, he had no drive either. Just a wretched scrap of humanity. After taking the code and letting him keep the worthless domain he was supposed to do SEO on I registered a new domain and got the site up in a night. Ended up being reasonably profitable at $2,000 a month, but was just too much work for one person. I sold the site in 2014.<p>Since then every time I find a &quot;co-founder&quot; it seems I end up doing most of the work. Maybe there is something wrong with me or maybe its really hard to find a good co-founder.
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pthreadsover 6 years ago
Other commentators have touched upon topics like building, selling, networking etc.. So I won&#x27;t repeat those.<p>My advice is to first and foremost firewall your personal assets. It will save you a ton of regret and headache later if things go wrong.<p>- If you are in the US then start by forming an LLC (or Delaware C corp if you have the funds) with a separate bank account.<p>- If you are in the services business then get business insurance (quite affordable actually).<p>- Buy domain names. Also set up a time line for when you may want to register a trademark if that applies in your case.<p>- Create all necessary document templates ahead of time, for e.g. NDA, contracts, IP assignment etc. depending on what is applicable in your case.<p>Some additional advice :<p>- Never make verbal promises or handshake deals especially when you are scouting for a co-founder, contractors, or employees. It doesn&#x27;t matter how well you know them.<p>- Avoid, to the extent you can, offering equity for services or deferred compensation. In the early stages it is quite possible that you will be using contractors. If you do then make sure the written agreement terms are solid and unambiguous.<p>- Read books like Deal Terms, Term Sheets and Valuations, Venture Deals, High Tech Startup, Founder&#x27;s Dilemma, Fools Gold etc.. and become very familiar with the concepts and terms. I can&#x27;t stress this enough -- be well informed! - Thoroughly understand cap tables and how they change over time&#x2F;events.<p>- Read Getting To Yes (Harvard publication, if I remember correctly). Will help you with your negotiation skills.<p>- Consider startup incubators if that helps in your particular case. But be careful and understand the terms carefully. Some incubators will take a non-trivial amount of stock in exchange for very little.<p>About co-founders :<p>If you are passionate and&#x2F;or good at selling your idea it is quite likely you will attract co-founders. Do not rush. Take your time to get to know them within the context of your startup regardless of how well you have known them personally.<p>- If you can try to work out a try-out phase with potential co-founders. But be very careful and make sure both parties sign proper agreements and are very clear about what they are getting from each other.<p>- Personally I am not a fan of part-time co-founders. If someone wants to join they are either all in or out.<p>- Please read Founder&#x27;s Dilemma (Noam Wasserman).
todd3834over 6 years ago
I’ve been single founding side project ideas for years and that’s been a lot of fun. Recently I had a chance to do it full time for a long period of time. Having gone through that I will say that it isn’t something I would ever do alone again. The highs were muted and the lows were magnified. You are far better off if you can do the journey with someone than without anyone.<p>That being said here are some things that helped:<p>1. Have a friend that you can call that is interested enough to listen to what you’re doing. We joked that my buddy was like a free co-founder. This helped a lot but it was still not as great as the real thing.<p>2. Make lists. Figure out all of the things that need to happen for your month&#x2F;week&#x2F;day to be successful and figure out how to make that happen.<p>3. Focus on things that being small give you an advantage over a large company. One book I read said something along the lines of, “if you’re a small guy being chased by a big fat bully you should run up the stairs as it would be easier for you and tire the bully out”. How this plays out in practice is going to depend on your competition.<p>4. Don’t get married to your initial idea. It will certainly change as you learn more. The more resistance you put to change the longer it will take for you to find success. Start with something and start getting feedback ASAP.<p>5. Getting meetings is very hard. Cold calling sucks and cold emails are even worse. Use your network. Even people you might not think are connections can be huge help. When you’re stuck just go through your contact list thinking about how you can get a warm connection to what you’re trying to do. Be honest about why you are calling your contact so they don’t feel used.<p>6. This may be controversial but when you haven’t even validated the market unit tests just don’t seem like the best use of time.<p>Life is short and I find it more enjoyable with friends. If you’re like me then you’ll enjoy this journey more if you take someone with you. That being said I realize everyone is different. I thought being a solo founder was going to be great but next time I’m finding a buddy to join me.<p>If you want to bounce ideas off of a random person or hit me up for networking to get meetings you need please send me an email (in my profile). Good luck and enjoy the highs! They are so exciting.
dizzydesover 6 years ago
I am far from full-flight yet (some of my side projects have made a few grand) but here are some things I&#x27;ve learned in addition to the advice already given:<p>* Only solve a problem you have experienced - this makes ideation and validation much easier (though its still essential to get unbiased opinions on your MVP)<p>* You&#x27;ll need something to attract people initially to get feedback and validate - but don&#x27;t dedicate more than 2-3 weeks of coding to your beta.<p>* Product Hunt allow you to post twice - once for beta and then for V1. Your initial PH post should give you more than enough test users to get good feedback. Don&#x27;t bother with any other marketing or coding until you have a validated product.<p>* When it comes to feedback, schedule beta testers in for calls before giving them access to the product; always opt for calls over email<p>* Technology doesn&#x27;t matter, as others have said your selling a solution, not code. Opt for whatever language or framework you will be fastest to build in.<p>* Once you have a validated product you&#x27;re ready to sell, feel free to experiment with different marketing channels but quickly determine what the most effective for your product are (in terms of volume of leads and ROI); dump the rest and double down on these. The internet of awash with cool marketing tricks but the reality is that most companies get 80% of their leads from 1 or 2 refined, targeted actions.
iEchoicover 6 years ago
Some advice after spending a couple years navigating from nothing to a team of 10:<p>0. Pick an area in which you have domain expertise. If you&#x27;re building something you actually want to use yourself, that&#x27;s even better. As a solo founder, it&#x27;s even more important that you have a strong intuition for your users and for your problem space.<p>1. Make something people want, get people to use it, and talk to them. This comes first, and almost everything else can and should be ignored until you&#x27;ve done this. This is the best way to attract good people. This is also the best way to attract funding. This should be your north star. If you&#x27;re struggling to find people and&#x2F;or funding, goto #1.<p>2. You have advantages, too: as a solo founder, you should be able to move faster than anyone else - even companies with cofounders or entire teams - in the early stages. When you talk to people and they make suggestions, you can and should literally immediately make them, deploy them, and tell them that you did so. This may feel strange once it starts to feel like you&#x27;re a glorified CS rep, but this is actually the iteration loop that you <i>want</i> to be in. You can do this faster than anyone else because you have zero communication overhead and zero friction between the point at which feedback is received and the point at which improvements are shipped. When you find yourself in this state, bask in it for as long as possible.<p>3. Give your early people a lot of equity and make sure they feel like they own the company too.<p>The good thing is that it&#x27;s been more straightforward than I expected (though certainly not easier than I expected).
raheemmover 6 years ago
Solo founder here. You have to have a growth mindset. It is your oxygen.<p>I was speaking to an entrepreneur today, trying to learn about his industry and sell him marketing services. The guy kept coming up with reasons not to grow. Even when I asked him, what if you had 20 more customers willing to spend $15K (his dream cust), he said he would have problems fulfilling those customers.<p>This guy does not have a growth mindset. Maybe that&#x27;s by choice; maybe he is happy with the current revenue, which is fine.<p>But as a new entrepreneur, a growth mindset is essential. The best way I know to overcome this is to have a coach or even better a coach who has already built that kind of business you are trying to build.
bamaziziover 6 years ago
Solo founder here. I&#x27;ve experienced several group size startups in the past 10+ years, and ultimately arrived to the conclusion that solo founder is the best option if you&#x27;re cut out for it. As a solo founder you need to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Constantly experimenting, learning, and open to criticism.<p>I&#x27;ve been apart of large co-founder group (4+) which I don&#x27;t recommend at all. Once our company went above 50-60 people the co-founder relationship just imploded and after 100+ employees, none of the co-founder were apart of the company and it eventually shut down by the investors who took over.<p>I&#x27;ve also had a co-founder where we tried but eventually had separation of idea and roadmap but the toll of the pressure was too much. You not only have to care deeply about the project but also the other co-founder and if one side is more into &quot;glory&quot; of a startup founder, then you&#x27;re in a failing relationship.<p>As an eventual solo founder, I realized the size and ambitions of the &quot;startup&quot; are extremely important. Small ideas are ok but might not be exciting enough and big projects are nearly impossible to pull off. Figuring out how to recruit contractors and split the work load to achieve MVP is the trick.<p>Important tools and mindset you need to master: 1- Jobs to be done (JTBD) 2- Objectives and Key Results (OKR) 3- Sales pitch (not just a pitch deck or executive summary) 4- UX and technical skills (aka: jack of all trades) 5- People management (not just project&#x2F;product management) 6- Open to criticism (nobody wants to tell you your baby is ugly, you have to assure them they can be honest with you and you&#x27;d want to hear the brutally honest feedback) 7- Go to market strategy (value props and business model) 8- Network effects 9- Time management 10- Business, legal, accounting, payroll and taxes
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novaleafover 6 years ago
Best if you avoid incorporation until you are forced to. If&#x2F;when you incorporate, do so as a LLC or SCorp (allowing pass-through taxation). CCorps now have a flat 25% tax rate which will be a high double-taxation while you are trying to grow.<p>edit: assuming you are in the USA. If in a bureaucratic nightmare of a country then you should avoid incorporation until you are extremely profitable. My own experience in Thailand: I incorporated early and was forced to hire a full time bookkeeper plus about 1 month&#x2F;year accountant contractor to handle the government red tape
parover 6 years ago
I am the sole founder and developer of Meta Meme (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;metameme.app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;metameme.app</a>). I built it for a couple of years as a side project, and recently went full time on it. It&#x27;s been growing slowly over the past couple years but really started picking up last summer. I&#x27;m not going to lie, it&#x27;s been really difficult. There were a lot of times when I&#x27;d just be so exhausted or worn down but kept working on it. And I thought everything would be better once I went full time, but it&#x27;s also had its own unique set of challenges. Still, I am excited and grateful to be doing it and pressing on. It takes a lot of time and dedication.<p>A VC recently told me that most startups don&#x27;t fail, it&#x27;s just that the founder quits working on it. The deeper I get into my business, the more i see how that can be true.
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pushtheenvelopeover 6 years ago
(this is hard to answer well, without knowing your background or the nature of your idea)<p>I&#x27;d recommend starting to develop the idea. If you are non-technical, then begin speaking to potential users and customers, and building relationships i.e. do business development.<p>If you are technical, it doesn&#x27;t matter, do the above too. You can also take part of your time to actually begin prototyping a v1 of your product. But remember, your goal is to start a company, not a cool technical demo, so prioritize business development.<p>Once you have done this, congrats, you have some real momentum on your idea and have either gotten validation from real users and customers or know what needs to be changed and improved. You are now in a stronger position to start talking to people. Its much easier to attract people to your startup if you can demonstrate your idea has some traction.
gitgudover 6 years ago
If you want to attract people, you need to either pitch the idea in public (or build an MVP) to gather attention and possible partners. Or find people with similar interests and reveal the idea to them. You could also find someone through networking or [1] forums.<p>Show a good idea, with good leadership and people will follow...<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;indiehackers.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;indiehackers.com</a>
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wenbinover 6 years ago
I&#x27;ve been doing this startup thing alone for 1.5 years now.<p>It&#x27;s fun to learn some business skills along the way.<p>It&#x27;s more possible than ever to build great digital products with a tiny team (or even single person).<p>If you have a day job, then keep your day job. Start implementing your idea on the side. Do it for at least 1 year. Startup is a marathon. There are a lot of &quot;over night&quot; success stories from media that seek for clicks. But in reality, you&#x27;d need to wait for many years to see traction. Do the test drive for 1 year, and see if you still enjoy it.
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satvikpendemover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m creating an open source todo list + calendar webapp (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;getartemis.app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;getartemis.app</a>, source at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;satvikpendem&#x2F;artemis" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;satvikpendem&#x2F;artemis</a>) made by just me, and I can tell you how I approached solo development.<p>I sell first before coding anything.<p>The video you see on the front page does not exist in code, it is simply a prototype designed with Figma (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;figma.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;figma.com</a>) and animated with Principle (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;principleformac.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;principleformac.com</a>). I created the landing page and video, added a Mailchimp form, and I posted on Twitter, Reddit, and here on Hacker News, the communities in which it made sense. For me, it&#x27;s a productivity &#x2F; task management tool, so I would post on reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;getdisciplined or reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;productivity.<p>It&#x27;s all about creating a minimum viable product, as you might well be aware, but what you may not know is that an MVP need not have code. Indeed, it could be a video as I did, and I think for software, a video works best as people can actually see what it looks and feels like, without you necessarily creating the product architecture (full frontend and backend plus devops etc). Now I have over 150 subscribers in only a month due to rapid creation of this type of MVP, and based on this feedback, I changed my designs, and only now I am beginning to really create the heart of the product.<p>Using non-code MVPs is the best way in my opinion to sell quickly before building.
mrskitchover 6 years ago
I&#x27;ve written a bit about this in regards to browserless.io: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.browserless.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2018&#x2F;08&#x2F;01&#x2F;running-an-indie-business.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.browserless.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2018&#x2F;08&#x2F;01&#x2F;running-an-indie...</a> if you&#x27;re curious. But in short:<p>1. Build something that you&#x27;re an expert on, and know how to build it. You can&#x27;t do it all, but knowing how to do most of it goes a long ways. Hire out for the rest.<p>2. Be intimately aware of what the product should be from the users standpoint. What does it do that no one else&#x27;s does?<p>3. Prepare yourself for supporting the business and support issues. You can&#x27;t &quot;back out&quot; or dodge anything, and you&#x27;ve got to be ready to be in the hot seat alongside your uses. I&#x27;ve been told a &quot;volunteer&quot; type mentality is what this is called.<p>4. Be emotionally ready for an absolute roller coaster. One day you can be on HN, and that same day you&#x27;ll lose your #2 account. It, by all means, is an absolute emotional washing machine. Try and distance yourself from the product if you can.<p>5. If your boot-strapping yourself then your limitation&#x2F;runway can be time. Time does have a value aspect to it, and if you&#x27;re an engineer you can grossly underestimate how long something will take to build which it&#x27;s effectively money lost.<p>There&#x27;s so much that goes into it, and every business is so different that it&#x27;s hard to capture what to do. You really have to _just do it_ because getting started and out is the hardest part. Everything else seems to fall into place after, assuming you don&#x27;t close it or abandon it.<p>Good luck!
drusepthover 6 years ago
Two years into my first solo startup here. Lots of good advice here already, but the things that worked best for me:<p>* Build what you&#x27;re interested in, and use the product yourself. If you&#x27;re not personally using the product, the loneliness of a solo op can quickly translate into &quot;why am I doing this at all?&quot;<p>* Don&#x27;t be afraid to admit what you don&#x27;t know, AND don&#x27;t be afraid to spend extra hiring professionals (or freelancers) to do those things. Consultants work the best, in my experience: hire them to build out some kind of framework that lets you do what you need to do without them, and then bring them back as needed to do more advanced things you can&#x27;t do.<p>* Automate everything you can. People say startups should do things that don&#x27;t scale, and that works when you&#x27;ve got the resources to throw at things. However, if it&#x27;s just you then time is often your most valuable resource (moreso than money, in many cases): automate everything you can that takes up more than 30-60 minutes of your day so you can focus on more important things. This also ties into point 2: automate out the drone work so you also stay interested in what you&#x27;re working in and don&#x27;t succumb to a brick wall of &quot;why am I even doing this?&quot;.<p>* As a solo founder, you need to be self-driven and self-accountable. You need to keep working and Get Shit Done even when nobody is asking you whether something&#x27;s done or not. Don&#x27;t be afraid to take breaks or time off when you need to recharge, but don&#x27;t fall into a habit of &quot;nobody&#x27;s asking for this; I&#x27;ll get to it later&quot;.<p>* Lastly, it can be tempting to vastly expand your work hours (especially if you&#x27;re feeling pressured to get something done or feeling overwhelmed), probably more so than if you had a cofounder even (IMO it&#x27;s a lot easier to suffer through long hours yourself than to command someone else do so also). There&#x27;s nothing wrong with a 60 hour workweek, but you also should never feel like it&#x27;s necessary. Sometimes I cut myself off at 8 hours in a day even if I&#x27;m on a roll and feeling motivated; that motivation often builds up and translates into another strong day tomorrow. You might also get a ton done in a single day by working into the night, but it&#x27;s easy to translate that into sleeping in tomorrow because you got so much done and having a much slower day in general. Find what works best for you, and don&#x27;t let yourself get burned out.
zwetanover 6 years ago
ideas have no values, implementation does<p>the very same idea could be implemented in different ways, some would work, some other would fail<p>the only way to be sure is to build it and ship it, eg. &quot;does my implementation provide value to customers or not?&quot;<p>it does not have to be big, it does not have to be perfect, it does not have to be complete (avoid the features creep), but the implementation itself or the product is what determine the value or potential value<p>other people like co-founder, talents, etc. are basically people who will see the value but think &quot;hey I can build that better&quot;, &quot;I can sell that better&quot;, etc. and decide to join you in the process<p>so yeah pretty much &quot;Start building and start selling&quot;<p>for the founding part it will be either you have the skills (tech, marketing, whatever) and so invest your time, or miss some of those skills and use your own money to cover those parts<p>I do not believe you can rely solely on &quot;strong ideas&quot;
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brodouevencodeover 6 years ago
Lots of conflicting advice here. There are a lot of factors that would or could cause you to do one thing versus another: how much capital reserves do you have, have you tested a market yet, what is the market, what are you looking for in a cofounder, how long will the product take to develop if it isn’t developed already, etc etc.<p>Here’s my (short) story. I’m a single founder in mid development, and this is a side hustle. I expect to deliver by the end of this quarter, working in my spare time. The product is solving a problem that I have. I am footing everything, and am not even entertaining the idea of bringing anyone else (cofounder or otherwise) on board until the product is complete and works the way that I want it to. Then once it’s marketed and gets traction, then and only then would I look for help.<p>But that’s just me and that’s the point: do what’s best for you.
benmowaover 6 years ago
Check out Rob Walling. He&#x27;s got some podcasts and grown to some conferences now, but i keep going back to his book: Start Small, Stay Small: A Developer&#x27;s Guide to Launching a Startup<p>Edit: just looked it up but see also Rob&#x27;s new project TinySeed.com: The First Startup Accelerator Designed for Bootstrappers.
SmellyGeekBoyover 6 years ago
There&#x27;s not really a lot to go on here. Are you from a sales background? Management? Development?<p>Or do you have an amazing idea for a YouTube &#x2F; Facebook hybrid and want to give me 5% equity in exchange for working on it for free for the next 6 months?<p>If I had a penny for every time I&#x27;d heard that amazing offer...
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nimzover 6 years ago
You mentioned attracting co-founders so just adding one important piece of advice: don&#x27;t be stingy about equity with your co-founders. Even if you were the one who came up with &quot;the idea,&quot; or worked on it alone for a few months.<p>When your company is actually worth something down the road, you will both be wealthy enough, however, in the early stage, when your company is worth close to zero, one of the highest risks is the founder relationship&#x2F;compatibility. When all partners have equal ownership, there is a much lower chance of having passive-aggressive power struggles, and grudges.<p>A toxic, deteriorating co-founder relationship will almost surely kill your company too early, whereas being generous early will be something your co-founders will never forget and it will pay back multifold overall.
pbnjayover 6 years ago
It doesn&#x27;t matter if you have a strong idea if no-one is willing to pay for it. Get some sales commitments first, even some &quot;soft&quot; commitments will go a long way. Will you even be able to build the company at the rates people are willing to pay?
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mark-ruwtover 6 years ago
(Solo founder, one-man shop, 12+ years in, Mentor)<p>There&#x27;s a lot of great advice already so I&#x27;ll just add: Create a bi-weekly, private email newsletter. Your biggest fear should be getting too heads down and building the wrong product or somehow losing the plot.<p>Create a newsletter for friends, family, developer peers, teachers, and anyone else you can think of.<p>Every two weeks you should outline what you accomplished in the last two weeks, what you&#x27;re working on in the next two weeks and the plan for the next six weeks. The simple act of broadcasting the newsletter will help keep you accountable and focused. Good luck!
therealmarvover 6 years ago
It&#x27;s not magic. In the past I thought I need to be really innovative, have my own product, be rich, be a business man from top to bottom, have cofounders etc. etc.<p>I was going straight from software freelancing to founding my own company (also switched countries to Cyprus) and created a Limited all on my own. Still working for clients and I have this legal person (Limited) now acting as a shell for me on a legal side but beside that: nothing changed.<p>Cofounders are like a marriage... you should be 101% sure about them ;)
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lkrubnerover 6 years ago
Simply put, if you are starting off alone, you need more money. I can think of two women I&#x27;ve worked with who were outstanding project managers, and who could step up to the role of COO. Neither of them have enough spare cash to endure the craziness of founding a startup, but both of them could play the role of June Martino, if I could pay them, and that is basically what you need if you are a solo founder. I would look to hire someone like that right away.
ahackernewsuserover 6 years ago
From my experience, there&#x27;s a massive intangible difference between a co-founder and an early stage employee. Get as far as you can without using equity, so that when you do use equity, you have a clearer sense of what you will get from it. When you want other big-picture decision makers, get co-founders. When you want x, y, and z mostly outcomes, hire employees. If you can&#x27;t afford employees, could you get further and raise funds first? I&#x27;ve had amazing high equity employees and not so amazing ones. But with a small group of pseudo co-founders, things like firing, raises, pivots, etc. naturally become more political than they might otherwise.<p>It&#x27;s cliche but think of this as dating except you just adopted a kid. When you start going steady with someone, it&#x27;s critical to have a boundary between yourself as a parent and the other person as a (perhaps-temporary) parental figure. If one day you find someone who would raise your child even better than you could by yourself, or at least would make you happy and you trust fully in their judgment and values (even if not 100% same as yours), you get married. But you can still raise a great kid as a single parent.
geekjockover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m a solo founder (pullreminders.com) and have been at it for about a year and a half. There are definitely a lot of highs and lows but overall I enjoy the way my work feels very personal and autonomous.<p>I love this quote by Derek Sivers:<p>&gt; Nobody gives a novelist shit for writing alone. But an entrepreneur, programmer, or musician is expected to collaborate. I disagree, for me. I prefer the life of a novelist, whether I’m writing code, music, or systems.
desireco42over 6 years ago
Since you got a lot of good advice already, I would like to add following.<p>Hire or make deals with, people who can speed things up, developers, designers, sales people. You can&#x27;t do everything by yourself. Find people you can talk to, that is super important.<p>Often people trick themselves into building elaborate product first, but also there is a case where you genuinely have to make something before you can sell it.
loandiggerover 6 years ago
900 hours. That&#x27;s my rule. It takes 900 hours of concentrated effort in brainstorming, building, tweaking, disillusionment, trashing it all, starting over, brainstorming some more, building, tweaking, demoing, networking and THEN selling before you&#x27;ll even have the faintest idea as whether this can be a viable company. Put in the time and you&#x27;ll see.
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dpennyover 6 years ago
First, don&#x27;t. Actually, its good you ask about attracting co-founders and talent, that&#x27;s a critical part of success. You&#x27;re going to want a strong, like-minded cofounder and strong team to help you succeed. The journey is more fun and will likely be more successful with he right team...So, how? Network.....
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naveen99over 6 years ago
starting building on the idea yourself so you have more to talk about &#x2F; show.<p>co-founders are usually people you already know. so talk to them and start persuading or start meeting more people.<p>employees are attracted to salaries, offer it (get funding if needed).<p>if you have no idea what&#x27;s involved in working on a startup, maybe watch the startup school videos.
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akerroover 6 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?query=single%20founder&amp;sort=byPopularity&amp;prefix&amp;page=0&amp;dateRange=all&amp;type=story" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?query=single%20founder&amp;sort=byPopula...</a>
vforissiover 6 years ago
I am 20 and moving to SF in a month . To help people be more productive I am building a self management software tool for startup employees, something you can use alone or in group with goals, feedback, and psychometric stuff.<p>I am 4 month into code and still need 2-3 more months to make something I can sell (at like 5$&#x2F;user&#x2F;month) or get free users.<p>Originally I am from France so I only have a 3 months window once in the US to take of and raise seeds to get my visa (otherwise I can maybe get married or I am screwed and come back crying at my mother&#x27;s).<p>Do you have any advice ? Things I should do ? People I should talk to ? Startegies I should use ?
viachover 6 years ago
It is very hard to honestly evaluate your own idea, because it&#x27;s, well, your idea. You get to tell about it to someone. And when you tell and ask for feedback and help - voila, you are not a pure solo founder anymore.
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issaover 6 years ago
There are two parts to having a good idea. One is the idea itself, but it&#x27;s also critical that you have expertise in the domain. My company helps freelance writers and photographers get paid. The CEO was a publisher who had this problem and decided to solve it. He reached out in his circle for a programmer to build it, and he found me. The idea was good enough for me to put time into it, and we had a clear path forward for turning it into a business. My point is that if you have domain knowledge and a genuinely good idea, you&#x27;ll have no trouble finding co-founders.
throwaway_chanover 6 years ago
Sorry to hijack someone other&#x27;s question. I have a question of my own.<p>I co-founded a company with one of my family friend around last year and made the silly mistake of trusting blindly by not signing a partnership agreement. I completed the whole development of the project and there has been inflow of cash but since then there has been radio silence from their part.<p>So i have registered my own company and ready to deploy the same service of my own.<p>Since i know the product will sell, i know i can develop a better product than the existing but i lack knowledge of business side of things.<p>Any advice for me ?
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TaylorAlexanderover 6 years ago
I can’t provide a good answer to your question, but as a failed solo founder my talk on my experience may interest you: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;huOzokY_fME" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;huOzokY_fME</a><p>In particular in the Q&amp;A I talk about some things I would have done differently. But one of those things was that I would not be a solo founder again - I just don’t have all the skills necessary to both do the product and the business side.
Dowwieover 6 years ago
It seemed that Hell had a better chance at freezing over before I could cold-network a viable relationship with a prospective technical co-founder worth his&#x2F;her salt, so rather than give up I chose to work towards my goal as best I could on my own. Many years have past since. It&#x27;s been a humbling, very long journey.<p>I would love to personally connect with technical solo founders who can relate.
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crispytxover 6 years ago
If you know how to program, don&#x27;t force the cofounder thing. It&#x27;s really easy to end up bringing on shitty cofounders. Look at Facebook and SnapChat. In my experience it&#x27;s typical to end up bringing on an Eduardo, a Winklevoss twin, or a Reggie Brown, then you have to get rid of them because they suck and literally aren&#x27;t capable of contributing anything.
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lazyjonesover 6 years ago
A strong idea hasn&#x27;t been enough since ca. 1999. Build a prototype or a plausible team &amp; plan with your own money&#x2F;time first.
kishansagathiyaover 6 years ago
Are there really any single founders? In most successful single founder companies, there are few people who effectively does cofounder like stuff. In this case initial recruits would just not have the cofounder title, but the same work. Also initial recruits will stick around and will give their best only if they have enough incentive, which is equity(a cofounder thing)
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ykevinatorover 6 years ago
If your idea is in software, write a plan and write specs. Then put together a budget and hire someone to build it. Set a threshold for failure and one for further investment. Don&#x27;t put the cart before the horse, write planning docs and budgets. Draw sketches. Do all the brain dump work and commit to a hard scope, out everything else in the back log. Good luck!
smt88over 6 years ago
Stop thinking about your idea as being good or bad. Start with customers. What will they pay for right now?<p>Ideas don’t have value without the ability to execute. If all you can offer is an idea (no money, no sales pipeline, no engineering) then you shouldn’t start a company. No worthwhile cofounder would work with you.
mrkurtover 6 years ago
The mechanics aren&#x27;t the hard part, I don&#x27;t think. Managing emotions and being energetic are. If I were trying to start a company on my own I&#x27;d make sure I had a hobby that involved interactions with other people, and then try to find people to talk to about company building stuff.
wh-uwsover 6 years ago
Don&#x27;t. You can. But you can also run full speed into the side of a building.<p>One will get the lesson faster than the other... and it isn&#x27;t the one where you spend 6 to 12 months lying to yourself and everyone around you about how you are figuring it out before realizing that you actually aren&#x27;t a super genius and you actually can&#x27;t do everything by yourself and you NEED other people.<p>Why because of what I tell literally every person that asks me about doing this now... At the end of the day even if you were a super genius at everything it takes to make a business be successful... you will run out of time in the day to do everything.<p>You HAVE to be able to bring other awesome people on to help you or you will burn out and fail.<p>If its not painfully obvious by now I am speaking from experience.<p>I tried I failed. That doesn&#x27;t mean that you will but I just can&#x27;t recommend anyone try to do this kind of thing by themselves.<p>I tell people now I feel like the first true test of your business is convincing other people to help your work on it... if you can&#x27;t convince even 1 other person to help you... do you really even have anything?
tiburonover 6 years ago
there are many strong ideas out there yet people lack the courage to do them or lack someone to help them. That is natural what you are in, i&#x27;ve had the same feeling when I got the idea to help people listen to podcasts from blog articles (websitevoice.com) as I am a developer myself it has not been difficult for me to get help from good people who loved the idea. So my first thing to do is probably talk about your idea to people who you think they can listen to you and sharing is caring. I&#x27;ve been contacted from people here in HN about if my new business needs support for design, marketing, the beginning is difficult. Never give up a great idea you have, because if you do not do it someone else will later do it!
DrNukeover 6 years ago
It really depends on your niche, your product and the amount of work you need to keep the entire startup going? As a rule of thumb, you just want a functional MVP that sells, which is your first milestone. After that, it’s open waters.
mrhappyunhappyover 6 years ago
Off topic, but what to do if your cofounder is not doing anything and contributed financially but stopped there? Worse if the service has not taken off yet. Feel really demotivated right now while cofounder seems to have checked out.
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tixocloudover 6 years ago
Single founder here as well with an enterprise startup. The path is definitely quite different but the principles are the same: sell your vision to everyone - customers, co-founders, employees, investors.
rajacombinatorover 6 years ago
Two paths. 1) start selling to and building for customers. 2) start recruiting cofounder(s) then fundraise. Which one is better depends on the nature of your startup and skill set.
Kinnardover 6 years ago
Also: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18140138" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18140138</a>
sharemywinover 6 years ago
start with the smallest workable version of your idea. if your technical build the coolest prototype of your product you can.
solarizedover 6 years ago
connect to a friends or team who decent at marketing. so you can focusing the energy to build the product. while friends spend their energy to supply the market demand. mutualism simbiotic.<p>we have done this for two years since 2016. our product has installed in 12 hospital accross the country.
Ace__over 6 years ago
Hello NNS.<p>Some questions first:<p>1. What do you mean by strong idea? Why is it strong? I am not knocking you on this. I myself do not share the disdain for ideas when compared to execution. We know it&#x27;s down to the execution, but give me a great idea any day of the week.<p>2. What is your domain experience in regards to the idea? Are they in the same domain?<p>If I can answer the second part of your question first: &quot;...attracting co-founders and talent to work with you.&quot; Before I go into the main body of my reply, if by co-founders you mean a programmer, then my advice is don&#x27;t go down the path of something like:<p>&quot;I have done the hard part, you push your paying jobs aside, sort out the code and prepare yourself for the type of riches only those standing on checkered floors are accustomed to. 5% of the business sound about right?&quot;<p>You may not even need a programmer off-the-bat anyway. The tech isn&#x27;t the solution. The tech is a scalable efficient conduit for the solution. Customers couldn&#x27;t care less if their woes were alleviated and goals were attained via tech or a rubber band.<p>Anyway, how to attract:<p>You know the cliche sales question &quot;Sell me this pen?&quot;. How can you sell the pen to someone who doesn&#x27;t give a stationary? You can&#x27;t, and you don&#x27;t, because you don&#x27;t know what need they have for the pen, what it brings into their life, etc, etc, the value of the pen to them. Same thing with attracting co-founders. If you attempt to attract them straight away, with nothing tangible to show, then you have one main option:<p>1. You need to find out what they think, what they feel, where they are coming from, where they currently are, where they might be heading to; in regards to your strong idea. If there is resonance, if they are on a path that suggests the journey could be shared, for they for a period of time are heading in similar directions, then there is a chance. However this chance is small unless you can show various qualities they are looking for. Honestly I don&#x27;t even know the qualities really, maybe a few at best: hunger, tenacity, vision, self-belief (a stop before it goes into self-delusion), point to prove (to themselves), etc. I just summarise it by saying, they want to see if this person is just a talker or a doer. Have you got it within you to stay the course? Are you going to jump ship at the first sight of an iceberg or are you going to stand your ground and pull out your violin as the iceberg approaches?<p>Some people look for passion. I don&#x27;t. If that works for them, fair play, who am I to say otherwise? However for me, passion? Nah. I leave passion for the Don Juan&#x27;s, the Cassanovas and the Lotharios, for I have seen the passion in the divorced couples, in the broken hearts, and the jilted lovers. You&#x27;ll need to find what fuels you, and make sure you to show it to others, not just in words but with deeds as well. None of this rubbish fake it till you make it, then the following week you&#x27;re sat there with Impostor Syndrome. You be by doing, and do by being.<p>Anyway, as you work on your idea, moving it away from just in your head into something others can evaluate, you will increase your chances of attracting co-founders et al. I personally wouldn&#x27;t bother with attracting anyone. Just get your head down and work on your self, and thus your idea. As this process occurs and you obtain targeted feedback, and let relevant entities know of it, you will start to attract people. But it needs to be targeted feedback. Just as you don&#x27;t ask your mum as described in The Mom Test, because you she loves everything you do; you don&#x27;t ask your dad either cos it&#x27;s just not good enough, it won&#x27;t work, etc, etc. No point asking anybody too close to you, bar a select few who don&#x27;t let feelings come in the way. No point asking anybody other than assumed target audience, and even then pinch of salt, and a mixture of early adopters, laggards, etc, etc.<p>As for the first part of your question go about &quot;founding your startup&quot;. I think you need to be wary of Survivorship Bias, Confirmation Bias, etc. Stay away from the &quot;I went to bed, woke up, boom, overnight success-ed it&quot; brigade. I have my own biases. I am filtering reality to verify my perception and my place within it. I read some of the other comments, informative and insightful. Sell or build first depends on many factors: to who, what, where, when, how, etc. I looked into this for quite a while, too long to say Lean with a straight face really, and I kept coming back to my own bias, am I deluded, am I lying to myself and do I not even know it, how little do I know, etc, etc.<p>Based on that, and the riskiest assumption out of the lot being do I really know, I have to say that you start by looking at the problem. My primary domain experience is in marketing, and the first thing I always do is audit the whole shebang. You have to find out where you do really stand, what do you really know, who else is standing in this space, what are they saying, etc, etc, in order to then plot a course to where you want to be.<p>Forget solution, tech, marketing, forget customer discovery as well. The first thing you need to do is be equipped with knowledge to not only stand on slightly firmer ground, but also when customer discovery does take place, which it needs to very early on, is be able to sort the wheat from the chaff, otherwise you are not really in a position to ascertain the value and the validity of the information obtained. You see it quite a bit in customer discovery classes, people getting out of the building with no reason nor rhyme as to who they actually interview. They interview every Tom, Dick and Sally, with no regards to if their opinion is even relevant, let alone valuable. Now there is a danger here in that, you don&#x27;t want to be biased in that you seek to verify your research, but then it comes down to if you want to &#x27;prove&#x27; you are right, or if you want the truth.<p>In the customer discovery you seek to not only ascertain if the problem is validated, but which target audience seems the most viable to go with first. I prefer not to go in hard on one segment, unless I have a strong thought&#x2F;feeling that this is the segment afflicted with the problem. It depends really, on how much knowledge and insight you have, there are no real set in stone rules, just don&#x27;t tick boxes for the sake of it, nor ignore a box solely on the basis of your own &#x27;knowledge&#x27;.<p>When it comes to actual problem evaluation, look at root causes, factors, pain points, scenarios, etc, as well as noting the language used for usage down the line in various things. Use qual and quant methods as well as probing from multiple angles, looking for consistency and coherence (or inconsistency and contradictory), when it comes to problem severity, frequency, emotional response, etc.<p>After customer discovery, I&#x27;d say take a quick look at the market landscape, not too heavy, for you can end up being influenced by what others are doing, and who knows, your approach, your idea, etc, may well go far beyond what others are doing. Stay in contact with those you interview, certainly the ones who display certain early adopter traits, but you also need some laggards, and some that resonate with the vision (the end goal), for problem is just a roadblock from A to B.<p>I&#x27;ll skip some of the other things I would mention here, message is too long. So:<p>Ascertaining market demand: all for it, but not some lame landing page 3 lines and a sign-up box, that shows a lack of insight, lack of understanding, lack of resonance, et al.<p>Building MVP: minimum is not in a bubble, look at the market, the competition, the audience expectations, minimum is fluid and ever increasing in some areas. You are below minimum if you can&#x27;t hold your own against the competition on one front at least.<p>As you can tell from the other replies to your question, there are no absolute truths, so whatever your journey is, I wish you luck.<p>Cheers, Ace.
matchagauchoover 6 years ago
Your Co-Founder is most likely somebody you already know. Make a list... approach them.
nyrulezover 6 years ago
I am in the same situation as you and while I don&#x27;t have success yet (I just started three months ago), I have made many mistakes and have learned a lot. Here are a few tips:<p>- As an engineer, I got into a building frenzy in the beginning, and equated product building to building a successful venture. They turn out to be quite different in practice.<p>- Start getting interested users to sign up as soon as you can. Create a landing page, create a clear sincere description of the benefits (not just features), run it by as many people you can, and have a email signup so you can do that while you are building it. I have one at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stockquanta.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stockquanta.com</a> and it has been quite successful in getting sign ups. I am still a month away from an MVP.<p>- Read up on marketing, validation and distribution. It&#x27;s difficult to manage so many things on your own but it&#x27;s still good to understand a lot of the essentials. I read this book and found it insightful: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B07FF51F8Y&#x2F;ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&amp;btkr=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B07FF51F8Y&#x2F;ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...</a><p>- I initially thought that I will build first and then show it to everyone. That&#x27;s a mistake. Try to talk to people early on about your idea and even better show them something working. You want to see how they react and if they truly get it. I have pivoted so many times based on how people respond. You want criticism and the honest truth.<p>- As a solo founder, the resources are limited. People have limited time. Something my GF mentioned that I have taken to heart is that try to maximize the user effort&#x2F;user reward ratio. Think of Google...a few seconds of input gives amazing value. Can you shape your product such that you maximize this ratio? Can they benefit from your product within 30 seconds or 1 minute of landing on your page? This may not be possible for every thing, but it will force you to think of different ways your value prop can be presented. In my early experience, nothing sells better than a product that actually delivers true value in a short time frame.<p>- Have Plan B, Plan C, ... etc. Know that your initial proposed idea or execution might fail. Have an idea of how you will pivot next. You could pivot within the same conceptual domain, or have an entire new domain ready to work on. If you are relying on one thing only to succeed, that&#x27;s a very brittle setup. The first product or service is mostly to optimize learning for the long haul. Learn everything you can about various things within and outside product. If you end up succeeding with the first attempt, that&#x27;s an added bonus :)<p>- Read a few business books that relate to the lean startup, product validation, common mistakes early on. Learn from others&#x27; mistakes as much as you can so you reduce the likelihood of repeating them.<p>- Know that you will make many mistakes and there will be many dead ends. Don&#x27;t compare your chaotic efforts with seemingly smooth success of others. It&#x27;s never really that way. Make sure you are learning at every step, able to step back, look at the big picture and move on. Comparing your chaos to others&#x27; success can be very disheartening and unfair so be aware of that.<p>- Lastly, don&#x27;t be that person who spends 2 years building and then emerging from a den. I know many folks who have done that and results are not pretty.
gammateamover 6 years ago
Find a cofounder.<p>I shelved ideas until I had a cofounder.<p>I shelved other ideas until I had a cofounder and capital.<p>Other ideas I built myself.<p>I’ve met like minded people that also had the right risk profile typically at mixers and tech meetups on topics that I liked. Never for the explicit purpose of meeting a cofounder. Just people that happened to be in the same fireside chat as me that contributed good conversation. Its all luck but you can improve the odds.