> “I don’t think Americans should be doing this to other Americans,” she told Reuters. “I’m a spy, I get that. I’m an intelligence officer, but I’m not a bad one.”<p>I’m not sure if the article is cherry picking quotes to make Stroud sound horrible, but I’m very concerned by the viewpoint she espouses. It’s ok for Americans to target 16 year olds on Twitter, but not other Americans? This makes her a “good spy”?
Reading this article made me really frustrated. As an individual I can't do much about government sanctioned surveillance but at least I'd have hoped that people such as Stroud that worked for US intelligence would have a stronger moral compass than what the article describes.<p>She was comfortable targeting human rights activists (such as Ahmed Mansoor who are working hard to make a positive change in the world) on behalf of a country with a horrible track record of human rights / etc. But she felt "sick to her stomach" when these targeted individuals were US citizens? How can she justify that citizenship is the differentiator between what's right and wrong?<p><i>> Stroud said her background as an intelligence operative made her comfortable with human rights targets as long as they weren’t Americans.</i><p><i>> Prominent Emirati activist Ahmed Mansoor, given the code name Egret, was another target, former Raven operatives say. For years, Mansoor publicly criticized the country’s war in Yemen, treatment of migrant workers and detention of political opponents.</i><p><i>> Mansoor was convicted in a secret trial in 2017 of damaging the country’s unity and sentenced to 10 years in jail. He is now held in solitary confinement, his health declining, a person familiar with the matter said.</i><p><i>> She found the work exhilarating. “It was incredible because there weren’t these limitations like there was at the NSA. There wasn’t that bullshit red tape,” she said. “I feel like we did a lot of good work on counterterrorism.”</i><p><i>> “I was sick to my stomach,” she said. “It kind of hit me at that macro level realizing there was a whole category for U.S. persons on this program.”</i>
I find it interesting that this ex-NSA operative casually explains her job was probing China computer systems and then assessing what data can be stolen from China. But then publicly the USA point fingers at Huawei or Chinese government from doing the same.<p>Same also UAE vs the USA. If the NSA is doing it, why wouldn't any Middle East country be able to hack other citizens/companies/governments? Sounds like a band of thieves bad-mouthing other thieves
If any US citizen that has worked at the NSA, CIA or a contractor for them goes and spies on US citizens for a foreign government must be driven into prison.<p>> Stroud said her background as an intelligence operative made her comfortable with human rights targets as long as they weren’t Americans.<p>> She found the work exhilarating. “It was incredible because there weren’t these limitations like there was at the NSA. There wasn’t that bullshit red tape,” she said. “I feel like we did a lot of good work on counterterrorism.”<p>These are violations of ethics. They can quickly become a betrayal of US citizens.<p>I think these former INTL workers don't understand that a wave of wrath is coming from US citizens that the shit pulled by INTL services isn't okay.
All this article does is highlight the soldier mentality of accepting instruction blindly as to what is good/bad. It seems child-like when read as the article presented it.
Potentially related anecdote: A few years ago I attended a trade show in UAE. At the time I was a R&D director for a mobile security company. Recruiting was blatant, I was (verbally) offered >400k base + signing to live in UAE for one year. Declined, but my partner and I definitely had a conversation about it. Even now, and especially at that time, that was a life-changing amount of money. However, it seemed to me that the company was a government-backed org with goals of attracting cyber talent, training local talent, and IMO weaponizing that knowledge. It also seemed that the company had an endless pit of money.<p>I wonder how much these folks accepted...
So to put this in perspective...<p>When the US intervenes in other nations there is typically a rival political faction that the US is aligned with:<p>- The US funds rival political groups of many foreign regimes abroad. The important thing is to have the group established. From there it can exist in semi-dormancy until it is needed.<p>- The rival political groups then hire former US intelligence agency employees as consultants.<p>- The rival political groups then hire former US officials as lobbyists.<p>- US political figures openly accept indirect campaign funding from foreign lobbying groups.
I'm confused here - they used US cyber Intel trade techniques and services a foreign soverignty, where is the line between treason and gun for hire? And they we're employed by a US staffing agency.
I know some people who moved from the 'infosec underground' in Western Europe to the Middle East 10-ish years ago, nowadays they mostly don't have contact any more with anyone from 'back then'. But I've wondered - how much would one make in such a role? It doesn't seem like it would be a 'lifer' job, so you'd have to be looking at high 6, potentially 7 figures to make it worth while. But from what I could tell back when these people I knew would still post a picture here or there - it wasn't even close to that. It would be something that would let them live a comfortable middle class life style there at best.<p>So, anyone with some gossip from that world care to comment?
It's a sobering story. And it's ironic that Edward Snowden triggered her move from US to UAE operations.<p>But she started out in the US military:<p>> She spent a decade at the NSA, first as a military service member from 2003 to 2009 and later as a contractor in the agency for the giant technology consultant Booz Allen Hamilton from 2009 to 2014.<p>And that's some programming that you don't shake off lightly. So it's not at all surprising that her break with UAE was triggered by operations against Americans:<p>> “I don’t think Americans should be doing this to other Americans,” she told Reuters. “I’m a spy, I get that. I’m an intelligence officer, but I’m not a bad one.”<p>That's how soldiers are trained to think.
> “There’s a moral obligation if you’re a former intelligence officer from becoming effectively a mercenary for a foreign government,” said Bob Anderson, who served as executive assistant director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation until 2015.<p>But not a legal one? I can see intel alumni being allowed to go into private sector work but surely not where there's a geopolitical conflict of interest?
US citizens and companies don't just provide tech support like this to the worlds despots, they also provide propaganda expertise. Look into Qorvis/MSLGroup.
So many of the comments on this page restored my faith in HN, people from the US and humanity, which was severely disturbed only this morning by the many horrifying comments on the "Stealing the Enemy's Urban Advantage: The Battle of Sadr City" page[0]. Thank you people! Inspiring stuff.<p>[0] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19045578" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19045578</a>
The British used mercenaries in the revolutionary war. Though these men came from Hesse, half stayed behind and ultimately became 'American'. Later America allowed its pilots to 'become' mercenaries to fight for China against Japan (The Flying Tigers <a href="https://www.history.com/news/6-legendary-mercenary-armies-from-history" rel="nofollow">https://www.history.com/news/6-legendary-mercenary-armies-fr...</a>)<p>Were the Hessians turned American considered British spies later?
Were the American pilots less trustworthy later?<p>It is impossible to generalize about mercenaries except to say they are a fact of life where people will take up the baton to hurt others for pay. The only way to prevent the atrocities that continue to plague our 'civilized' world is to treat people like the 'children' they are. Put them in a playpen and take away their toys. The equivalent is to build walls around every center of conflict and deprive them of any currency that would work outside these walls.<p>The concept of 'prison states' needs to be explored.
the other story about this, more of the how<p><a href="https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-spying-karma-exclusive/exclusive-uae-used-cyber-super-weapon-to-spy-on-iphones-of-foes-idUKKCN1PO19S" rel="nofollow">https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-spying-karma-exclusive...</a>
kinda funny that UAE and Saudi Arabia have always had blatant human rights abuses including funding terrorism in places like Syria but nobody raise a brow until they isolated Qatar roughly 2 years ago, then suddenly the abuses are appearing out of nowhere and ironically Qatar is is the only country that's worse than both of them. Also never underestimate Qatar's sleeping Islamist cells pretending to be liberals and even SJWs in the major news media nowadays