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Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

276 pointsby kevintbover 6 years ago
What is your specialty&#x2F;tech stack? How have you gotten around age discrimination? How do you suss out whether a company is right for you?<p>(I&#x27;m in my late twenties but I&#x27;m very curious to hear all your experiences.)

63 comments

buserrorover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 49! I&#x27;ve been working since I&#x27;m 17 as a developer -- I think the KEY thing is to be valuable, and be able to change quickly BUT not as quickly as the snowflakes.<p>Ignore the fad tech, get a good, serious, bulletproof base in actual computer science -- I mean, LOW LEVEL stuff--, that will help you learn ANYTHING computer related quickly, and continue surfing that wave with whatever tech you fancy might actually be useful to make you sellable in the future...<p>And don&#x27;t hesitate to drop stuff you invested a lot in. If it&#x27;s no longer trendy&#x2F;selling, just drop it like an old sock and spend time updating yourself. I&#x27;m a frigging EXPERT in dozens of stuff that would make people smile now (those who are old enough ;-))<p>And, if you&#x27;re that old, you should be GOOD. Not just nerdy and opinionated, you should be able to demonstrate being curious, capacity to change, to work with younger guys as a 1:1 basis -- and use that tons of experience of yours in new fields.<p>I&#x27;m lucky, I manage to &#x27;channel&#x27; that stuff because I&#x27;m probably still more passionate about my job most people will ever be, despite the pile of years, but I&#x27;ve never been &#x27;age discriminated&#x27; before. Apart from when I was 18 and winging it a bit ;-)
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paulrpottsover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 51 and I have found that doing embedded and low-level programming seems to insulate me somewhat from age discrimination. I think in part that is because people expect programmers who work very close to the hardware, like me, to be geezers. Breadth of experience seems to help as well.<p>By comparison, trying to get a job in web or app development was a nightmare of interviewing with twenty-somethings in open plan offices, who gave me programming puzzles to solve on the spot, then turned on loud techno while I struggled to concentrate. Which honestly told me all I needed to know about what it would be like to work in their trendy consulting office.<p>But my opinion on all this might very well change if I lose this job... maybe there is an age &quot;brick wall&quot; at some point I won&#x27;t be able to scale. I&#x27;m hoping not.
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mooseyover 6 years ago
Everyone here is talking about their skillset, and I&#x27;m going to take another direction: appearance and interpersonal skills.<p>There is ageism, yes, but I think a deeper problem is reaction to peoples appearance. If you are late twenties concerned about age, then hide it, starting now.<p>* Always wear sunscreen when you are outside, regardless of race. It prevents skin aging, and you&#x27;ll still tan and get Vitamin D regardless.<p>* Work out: lifting weights and doing cardio have differing goals and match up in interesting ways. Learn them. I do almost 100% pure heavy weight lifting, and I&#x27;m actually very thin, despite what I toss around.<p>* Make sure your clothes fit and look good. Go to a tailor and get one outfit made nice a year for interviews&#x2F;on-sites (if working remotely) etc.<p>Taking care of yourself physically might not seem related to a lot of this, but people discriminate in a number of ways, and the more you take away, the better you might do. In addition, two of the above are general health things that you should be doing anyhow.<p>I forgot about interpersonal skills when I first finished writing this:<p>* Practice getting people talking about themselves. It&#x27;s the best way to get people to think that you are interesting. I would argue it&#x27;s the most important tool in my interpersonal skillset and I&#x27;ve met a ton of interesting people using it.
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LarsHackerNewsover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m almost 66. Still working on active fun projects, and love what I do. Tips?<p>1. Be of value. 2. Always learn new things. 3. Seek opportunities in the code base (there are wins in there) 4. Keep learning. A repeat (see #2), and important. 5. Embrace new.<p>We work in an adapt or die industry; keep that in mind. And, if a shop discriminates about age, find a better shop.
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billwearover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 60, and going strong. Most important is bring not only depth and breadth of knowledge but also <i>wisdom</i> to the work. As a graybeard, you&#x27;re expected to add value because of your years. For example, when my office was going nuts about Kubernetes, devops, etc., it got me a raise to compare this new tech to the original Unix philosophy and point out some lessons learned in Unix design that would help with our containers. Everybody reinvents everything, every 5 or 10 years; use your history to add value, and you have a unique selling point that can&#x27;t be duplicated.
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tickthokkover 6 years ago
Not me, but my father in law, located in the midwest, is a sql dev. He&#x27;s about to retire in a few years, switched jobs a few years back. From what he tells me, they didn&#x27;t care that he was going to retire soon, they needed his skillset.<p>Location probably matters. My (also midwest) company was foaming at the mouth for a competent Java&#x2F;SAP developer (which, forgive me for being catty, seems like a technology only a 40+ yr old would fill) a few years ago, never found anybody, position was never filled.
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neoleftyover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 47, but my kids are reminding me 50 is coming soon!<p>I&#x27;m working as a web engineer — not a manager or even team lead — working remotely from the Midwest for a coastal company, and I&#x27;m pretty happy with it. All I can say is keep learning, be friendly, and delight in the energy of all you young people. I am not entirely sure why I have been hired, or even whether it was a good idea for my employer. So maybe stay humble too?<p>Maybe being remote prevents me from pinching the cheeks of adorable devs 25 years my junior. My advice: Don&#x27;t pinch cheeks. Turns out Millennials don&#x27;t like it. No matter how adorable those little non-grey-haired hackers are.<p>Anecdotally, the older I get, the less ambitious I get about my own career and the more interested in just helping out and doing things that make a difference. My self-discipline has become marginally better over the years, and my coding ability marginally worse. Definitely trending towards grandparent.<p>Things I especially like: interviewing, having a real-world impact, learning things, using cool new tools, helping out, justice.<p>Things I dislike: politics, jockeying for position.<p>Also, the whole &quot;I&#x27;ve forgotten more than you&#x27;ve ever known about this field&quot; feels true. But honestly thank goodness you <i>didn&#x27;t</i> have to learn it, because a lot of it is irrelevant now.
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uptownfunkover 6 years ago
There is a technology called hair coloring, stack it with a hoodie and some well fitted slacks, roll up one of the ankle cuffs a bit. Talk like you&#x27;ve exited a startup and are just working for fun, or something to keep you interested, but not like you actually have to.
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JohnFenover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m in my mid-50s and it has not caused a career problem for me. I don&#x27;t do anything special about my age.<p>What I do is what I&#x27;ve done from the very start of my career over 30 years ago: I am constantly learning and keeping my skills current. That&#x27;s not something I do to ensure employability, it&#x27;s because I am genuinely into this stuff. I produce software for a living, and I also produce software as one of my hobbies. There&#x27;s always something new and fascinating to tackle, whether it&#x27;s in the workplace or not.<p>My professional focus has become networking and security, but my skillset is far broader than that, so I don&#x27;t call myself a &quot;specialist&quot; at all. I&#x27;m just an experienced engineer. I don&#x27;t know how to answer the tech stack question, because I use a very wide variety of tech stacks, operating systems, and platforms both in the workplace and at home.<p>Have I been discriminated against because of age? I honestly don&#x27;t know, but I have no problem getting excellent jobs, so if it&#x27;s happened, it doesn&#x27;t matter.<p>I determine if a company is right for me in two steps --- first, before I decide to apply, I research the company to learn its history, what prior employees think of it, what technologies it uses, etc. If I feel good about or am still interested in the company after that, I&#x27;ll apply.<p>When I interview, I don&#x27;t look at it as them interviewing me. It&#x27;s exactly the other way around -- I&#x27;m interviewing them. I pay close attention to what they say (not their sales pitch, but what sorts of questions they ask), the physical environment, and I pay attention to all the employees that I can spot who aren&#x27;t on the team that is interviewing me. Do they look happy, angry, etc? My experience is that whatever they&#x27;re feeling is likely to be what I&#x27;ll be feeling if I take the job.
rolphover 6 years ago
im older than dirt_<p>specialty is assembler, firmware and hardware prototyping. I usually work on contract. The thing with high level stuff is that it is always changing face but never goes past the fact that it all boils down to low level operation of digital devices. If you can work at the level that allows high level language to operate then you have real power and controll, but not the convenience of ready made assembler routines, you have to roll your own firmware, and your own assembler macros. If you are a bonafide OS engineer, firmware engineer, and chip engineer, everyone else is riding your coattails, and you have direct knowledge of how a computer or any other sort of object code device functions.<p>{adde} after skimming through the comments it helps if you already have a code library of your own. You should be equivalent to a tradesperson with a full set of tools appropriate to the job demands. if you are re-writing code to implement a UART for example thats like an electrician constantly manufacturing a screwdriver on the job.<p>If you can write a piece of code from memory thats good, but proper preparation before hand is a mark of experience.
rgrieselhuberover 6 years ago
I hire a lot of engineers and it’s always a breath of fresh air to interview someone with 20-30+ years of experience, as long as they stay up to date.
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tamuee85over 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 57 and seen plenty of age discrimination, almost exclusively in big companies. Smaller companies don&#x27;t seem as prone to the practice. Stay current, change as needed. After 35 years of software only, spent the last two years going back to Electrical Engineering roots and developed 3 circuit boards from scratch and developed software for the boards. Large companies that cut solely on age deserve the loss of wisdom and experience.
evo_9over 6 years ago
I don&#x27;t really think the tech stack matters. I&#x27;m a dotnet guy for the most part and have been gainfully employed from it for 20 years, hell going back to vb-6, com etc before dotnet.<p>I get around age discrimination by looking a lot younger than I am. I achieve this by dressing current which doesn&#x27;t mean trendy, just don&#x27;t wear that same old sweater to work you&#x27;ve had for 10 years, keep it for family time. New clothes go a long way in this situation. Also don&#x27;t over dress, that&#x27;s a huge give-away so no suits.<p>I also shave my head, but if you aren&#x27;t losing your locks, good for you though you&#x27;ll want to consider dying it.<p>I also workout a ton, eat well&#x2F;little (restricted calories, etc),take a ton of vits and sups including metformin, NMN and resveratrol to name a few of the more useful and&#x2F;or exotic items. I thinking being lean, fit and strong also goes a long way toward conveying both youth and confidence that employers are naturally drawn toward.<p>I mean look when you&#x27;ve been coding for 30 years the problem isn&#x27;t your abilities, it&#x27;s how you are perceived by a potential employer.<p>I&#x27;m 51 but most guess my age around 38ish.
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squirrelicusover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m only in my early 30s but I have loved having old timers on my teams. They tend to have abandoned their illusory superiority (and super low estimates) that young devs exhibit so frequently, which really grounds a team. And talking tech with them is always an adventure instead of a sports team argument about which framework is best.
wedowhatwedoover 6 years ago
Age 53. At my last job, I was doing React front end work. When I argued against Redux, Coffeescript and Typescript because our app didn&#x27;t need them, I was told I wasn&#x27;t a team player and that I wouldn&#x27;t succeed in that company.<p>I now have a new job at much much less salary.
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gumbyover 6 years ago
Started my own company with a bunch of other geezers.<p>Helped that all of us had previously started companies and three of us had good exits. But then again we&#x27;d each had 30+ years to get that experience.
grumpy-cowboyover 6 years ago
Start your own freelancer&#x2F;consultant business. Businesses will pay you a lot of money for your knowledge and wisdom. This is what I did 9 years ago (I&#x27;m 43 now) and I never looked back.<p>My ex-employer said that if I want to have a better pay, I&#x27;ll had to have a management job. I&#x27;m not interested AT ALL about having a management job. I LOVE programming, system engineering, ...<p>This is why I started my own &quot;one-man&quot; freelancer business : I do what I want (and not what my boss want), when I want, ...<p>Now, I work for MY dreams and not the dreams of another person ;)
theabsurdmanover 6 years ago
Don&#x27;t be afraid to learn new things. I started my IT career almost 20 years ago doing Struts and later Spring MVC. I felt a bit stuck in the enterprise java realm, but I branched out to Pylons and then Spring Boot. Now I&#x27;m doing Laravel&#x2F;Vue.js and I have to say it&#x27;s a breeze having worked with MVC frameworks for all these years. If you have a hot skill, which reactive&#x2F;SPA apps seems to be these days, you&#x27;ll always be in demand.
ja27over 6 years ago
Started my own mobile app company. B2C is a rough market but I love not dealing with customers, sales people, etc. I do hope to shift into some B2B webapps instead.<p>Also now working on another startup with friends roughly my age and have a couple other startups as options there if I wanted to take on more.<p>My specialty is pretty much being a jack of all trades and being able to learn new ones quickly. In some ways it sucks because there isn&#x27;t any one stack that I eat, sleep, and breathe, but on a typical day I do some golang backend, js&#x2F;html&#x2F;webgl frontend, obj-c iOS, maybe some python, linux sysadmin, and some graphic design. The benefit is that it means not needing to go find and hire&#x2F;contract another resource.<p>Keep learning new things. I know many people my age that spend 10+ years on a single tech stack and never really learned anything new. Then suddenly they&#x27;re out of work and realize the demand for C99 on Solaris isn&#x27;t that high. Go to Meetups, conferences, webinars. Take on side projects. Mentor students.<p>It helps that I look a bit younger than my age. I honestly probably get more discrimination due to my weight. Working on that, but if you can maintain your fitness and the appearance of boundless energy, it overcomes a good bit of age.
sunstoneover 6 years ago
There are myriad ways to pull this off but more than a few them require luck of some kind. A particular technology, a particular company even a particular manager.<p>However a recent study shows that, in the US at least, 55% of all workers are laid off before they reach their &quot;natural retirement age&quot;. So you need to plan ahead.<p>Over the past twenty years the demand for technical talent has changed a lot. In particular, the demand has increased a lot at small and medium sized companies due to their use of the internet.<p>So a useful outline of a career now is, start at a large company and learn the ropes, then move away from niche technologies to more generally in demand technologies like LAMP for example. By the time you hit 35 years old you should be starting to angle for more senior jobs at smaller companies.<p>Software development now for smaller firms is starting to look more like law and accounting practices. Your experience there is now an advantage since you will understand more of the complete corporate needs in addtion to your tech chops. Whereas if you stay and a larger company (<i>cough</i> IBM) you&#x27;re now just too expensive for you niche skill set.<p>(*source - still doing lamp stack dev at over 60)
ultimooover 6 years ago
Not one myself but over the years I have seen older engineers who have published a book on a popular technical subject or have had open source contributions in widely used projects are seldom discriminated against!
ams6110over 6 years ago
I&#x27;m over 50. I haven&#x27;t encountered any age discrimination. Then again I don&#x27;t go looking for it. I&#x27;m sure people make judgements about me based on my age and appearance. That&#x27;s just life.
usawcoover 6 years ago
To the folks posting comments suggesting they are 50+ and still going strong or started coding when they were children: kudos to you. However, I think you represent the minority.<p>Development shouldn&#x27;t be a &#x27;King of the Mountain&#x27; contest, but it is. Here&#x27;s my story: I have commercial experience in C, Java, Visual Basic, MUMPS&#x2F;M&#x2F;Cache and Node.js. I&#x27;ve worked in Healthcare ( A&#x2F;R, Laboratory reporting &amp; instrument data acquisition ), Integration Space (e.g. webMethods), US defense space. I&#x27;ve worked in a &#x27;tools&#x27; team delivering components used by application development teams.<p>On the side, I&#x27;ve written an open source project on Github, I&#x27;ve attended many meetups in recent years - and user group meetings before the Internet was a thing.<p>My point, is that I am very experienced. I&#x27;ve never had a bad review, I&#x27;ve worked for at least 15 different managers, I&#x27;ve worked at a few companies multiple times.<p>Yet, I still struggle daily to hang on to the thing I love which is to write code. From my perspective, this is a real problem. It seems impossible to simply be a developer for your career because the pressure from the industry is to cut developer labor costs.<p>Btw, I am currently an Senior Architect. I&#x27;ve held many titles since 1988 including Princial Architect and Junior Programmer Trainee. ( I got into software after starting off as a lab technician in healthcare. )<p>The only people I know who are my age are those folks who truly are kings of their mountain. This is not what I envisioned. I helped raise a large family ( 5 children ), but I am constantly working in my head - regardless of whether I am at the keyboard or not.)<p>This is not what I expected; however, I&#x27;ve been paid very well, so I&#x27;ve been lucky - or my family has.
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randcrawover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 61. My solution: keep up technically and choose a mainstream topic valued&#x2F;needed by your company and stay near cutting edge in it (at least relative to the others working there). And develop other skills that are in short supply. Choose subject areas that leverage experience over inexperience: like regulatory compliance, subject matter domain knowledge, knowing what tactics are best with difficult clients or problematic target areas.<p>Some general skills that I&#x27;ve found help... Excel at speaking (be concise, organized, prioritized, relevant, insightful). Excel at writing and editing (tech-related communication seems notoriously poor at most companies). Excel at presenting (again, too often there&#x27;s lots of vagaries and hand waving).<p>If you come across as sharp and tuned in, I&#x27;ve found that it&#x27;s almost impossible for others to dismiss you. That is, unless they&#x27;re idiots. So make sure you&#x27;re not surrounded by idiots. That&#x27;s rule #1.
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projectramoover 6 years ago
It’s obvious: act young.<p>Die your hair and adopt the “lingo” of the cool dudes.<p>Like double barrel your boss with your fingers and wink and say “I like your style” no matter what he says.<p>Or if you agree with a colleague you say “fo shizzle” to gain their respect.<p>Refuse to program in anything old. All code has to be Haskell or whatever and throw in a neural network. If you can do that in a container you’re home free.
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kingaillasover 6 years ago
10 years ago I was laid off. I had just turned 40, and was living in an area that didn&#x27;t have the most robust job market (plus at the time the hiring outlook was terrible in general due to the financial crisis).<p>After looking locally to no avail... I added a new strategy: apply to various federal government jobs. Benefits include stability (although with the recent furlough maybe that isn&#x27;t 100% rock solid) and no possibility of the job being outsourced&#x2F;offshored, etc.<p>I&#x27;m 50 now, been a software developer for 25 years, still working for the government, and still enjoying it. Projects are varied, I have reasonable latitude in the programming I do (job is ~50% coding, ~50% other stuff), managers understand work&#x2F;life balance. Yes I don&#x27;t get stock options out the wazoo and other Silicon Valley style perks but I also have other hobbies and time to enjoy them. There are tradeoffs but overall I&#x27;m glad I did it.
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Arjunaover 6 years ago
Regarding the topic of career longevity as a software engineer:<p><i>Focus on combining your software engineering skills with delivering value in a specific, core competency.</i><p>That is to say:<p>Good software engineers tend to focus on being good at programming, and all of the details that venture entails (e.g., mastery of specific languages, knowledge of specific ways of operating in a given framework, IDE, or tool, etc.).<p>Better software engineers are capable of all of the preceding, plus the ability to apply a deeper level of problem-solving ability that has been laser-focused by their experience in the art.<p>Superlative software engineers are capable of all of the preceding, plus the ability to leverage those skills to deliver value as a Subject Matter Expert (SME) in a specific domain.<p>I believe that you have to be <i>more than just a programmer</i> if you want to maximize your career&#x27;s longevity, and its associated compensation package.
TheMagicHorseyover 6 years ago
To have longevity in a technical discipline you need to do one of two things: 1) choose a field that changes very slowly, or not at all, and become an expert in it; or 2) work in a quick changing field, but be prepared to learn quickly and compete with younger workers (means no wage premium just for seniority)<p>When it comes to 1), the best fields are ones where either hardware or regulatory issues slow evolution. Examples: embedded systems programming, working on highly regulated systems for the aviation, medical, or automobile industry.<p>Finally, and its not really in my list, but you could always create your own product or service. That&#x27;s a sure way to protect your income against age prejudice. Nobody cares what age the developer of their software is ... they just want to know it works.
zenexerover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m relatively young, but it baffles me that there&#x27;s age discrimination is an issue. Do companies think I won&#x27;t like working with someone who&#x27;s significantly older than me? What&#x27;s the issue?<p>This is a bit of rhetorical question--I get that there are stereotypes and companies want to build young, hip teams, but personally I find it short-sighted and naive. I&#x27;d rather be on a diverse team, age included. If I go for an interview and see that everyone is a white male in the late twenties&#x2F;early thirties, I&#x27;m going to be pretty disappointed no matter how many hipster toys they&#x27;ve got in the lobby. It&#x27;s a sign that corporate politics and HR are going to be problematic.
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BerislavLopacover 6 years ago
51 here. To be completely honest, I personally haven&#x27;t (yet) really felt any effects of ageism when it comes to work. Both in the past two years as a contractor, and before that as a perm, I have had more job opportunities than I could handle.
tamuee85over 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 57. I&#x27;ve seen plenty of age discrimination, but primarily at large companies. Smaller companies don&#x27;t seem to be nearly as prone to cutting people purely by age. Regardless of company stay current and maintain new skills. After 35 years of only software development, went back to my Electrical Engineering roots and doing hardware development and have developed 3 different boards and wrote the software stack for the boards. Companies that cut solely on age deserve the loss of good experience; their mistake.
wessorhover 6 years ago
51 here I&#x27;m the CEO, still write code.
0000011111over 6 years ago
I am 31, my plan for the next 19 years until 50 is to Max out my Roth 401k and Roth IRA each year. Yep tax advantaged savings is key part of my plan.
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jaysonelliotover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m lucky enough to look young for my age, so I leave my early jobs off my resume, and don&#x27;t put my graduation year on there.<p>While I don&#x27;t exactly hide the fact that I&#x27;m in my late 40s, I do find myself avoiding some discussions at work that would show my age, like talking about my older experiences or making pop culture references from the &#x27;80s or &#x27;90s.<p>Yes, you can talk about making yourself so useful that age doesn&#x27;t matter, etc., but the truth is that age discrimination is often an unconscious bias, and I just find it easier to &quot;pass&quot; as younger than to spend my energy trying to overcome it.<p>Of course I focus mostly on just being good at what I do. There are benefits to age. Experience and knowledge, of course, but hopefully also wisdom and temperament.<p>If there&#x27;s one thing I&#x27;d like people to take away from this thread, particularly people in their 20s, it&#x27;s to re-examine your unconscious biases about age. How often have you assumed something about a person because they were older than you, and what can you do to overcome that and judge them on their merits instead?
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mankyproover 6 years ago
There are few teams that recognize you purely for what you bring to the table, you could be the baddest ass dev on the planet, but as a gray hair you may not be accepted, or a &quot;culture fit&quot; as is the universal excuse nowadays for &quot;I don&#x27;t like her&#x2F;him&quot;. Truth be told most Millenials don&#x27;t want to go have beers with someone that reminds them of their parent&#x27;s whose basement that might still be living in, and we know that life in tech is immersive, your friends are your co-workers in many of these tech gulches.<p>The there is the idea that your new boss may be threatened by your skillet, which opens yet a whole other can o&#x27; worms. Age discrimination in the SF Bay Area is rampant, no one will ever admit it, but it&#x27;s here. It&#x27;s like gravity, one denies its existence at one&#x27;s own peril. So get your botox, your skinny red jeans and your converse or whatever they&#x27;re wearing these days - don&#x27;t forget to ink up - even if they&#x27;re temporaries :)<p>Oh and impossibly colored hair might help too.<p>p.s. laugh while you can monkey people.
kangnkodosover 6 years ago
Late 50&#x27;s. React&#x2F;Redux developer. Always learn new things. Simply ask other developers if a company has a reputation to hire people my age. Most have a reputation to only hire people out of college or a few years older. I just don&#x27;t waste my time with those companies. Look for small companies which have several people who look like me.
peterhiover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 57. A self taught generalist who&#x27;s been paid to do this since the early 80&#x27;s<p>What keeps me going? There is just so much interesting stuff going on with computers - how can you ever get bored :)<p>There are a lot of people better than me, also younger than me, but I can still knock out solid code. I think not thinking I have mastered something keeps me going. There is massive churn in languages and technologies, all my COBOL &#x2F; FCS &#x2F; IBM Mainframes skills are consigned to the dumpster but they help me learn new things like C &#x2F; CP&#x2F;M &#x2F; MSDOS &#x2F; Assembler. Which got dumped for Unix (not Linux) &#x2F; Macintosh (pre OSX) &#x2F; Prolog &#x2F; Lisp &#x2F; C++<p>I&#x27;m now doing Python and Ruby on Rails and learning Nim and Virtual Reality<p>What a time to be alive!<p>Age discrimination - can&#x27;t say I&#x27;ve noticed it but I&#x27;ve always expected to be judged by my abilities not may age. Perhaps I&#x27;ve been lucky
desertedislandover 6 years ago
I work at a high (senior) level as a (Javascript) developer and I&#x27;m 48. I&#x27;m not aware of being discriminated against - I never have trouble finding work (and I&#x27;m a contractor so I change jobs frequently). Perhaps that is part of it: it doesn&#x27;t cross my mind that I might be discriminated against; it doesn&#x27;t cross my mind to treat anyone younger than me different from anyone else. So my attitude to people is open: I am not defensive or resentful. I&#x27;m in the UK which has, as far as I can tell, less of an ageism problem than the US.<p>If I&#x27;m honest I&#x27;m probably a <i>little</i> bit slower mentally with very challenging, complex problems than I was 15 years ago. But, I work with some of the highest paid people in the industry and I have never once thought to myself that I was out of my depth or slow technically compared to my colleagues - regardless of their age.<p>And there are real, big advantages to age &#x2F; experience:<p>- Technically I have great <i>breadth</i> of experience: I&#x27;m (mainly) a front end developer but I&#x27;ve worked commercially in Node, C++, Java and PHP; I&#x27;m confident with server + database administration and dev-ops, complex application architecture and scaling. I&#x27;m the one that the senior managers turn to when they have problems &#x2F; doubts &#x2F; questions because I solve problems &#x2F; answer questions for them - regardless of the tech stack.<p>- I&#x27;m more mature emotionally and have <i>far</i> better interpersonal skills and experience, meaning I am far more effective and pleasant to be with in a team. This is a <i>huge</i> (way more important than technical skills) thing - particularly in today&#x27;s work climate where it is not acceptable to be &#x27;toxic&#x27;. I am experienced about getting my ideas across and giving feedback without being an asshole; I am unfazed if people are stressing out &#x2F; blaming &#x2F; ignoring &#x2F; not listening to me. I am not egotistical, insecure or emotional and I have enough experience with office politics to know what is happening and what people are about.
rmrmover 6 years ago
42 year old manager, with most of my team 50+, being its a specialty embedded environment full of dinosaurs.<p>You better be technically very good. And not have too shitty of an attitude. Because you probably make a lot more than the youngsters.
russhover 6 years ago
I&#x27;ve kept the same job for over 22 years. Hopefully it will last another 22...
gesmanover 6 years ago
55.<p>I moved to management position but still do development when no one is looking :)<p>My Co just published a worldwide press release over system I built over last Xmas break. So it&#x27;s fun from all sides.
newlikeiceover 6 years ago
Side questions if anybody answers this. How did you get your first job industry? I imagine corporation weren’t like there are now and thought of code as black magic.
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fidel23over 6 years ago
56 here and still pounding away. Number one piece of advice: stay technical, contribute well, be part of the team, and enjoying coding!
noivover 6 years ago
55 years here. Fight complexity and sell it. Avoid head counters like hell. Go fast and steep. There is a market...
runjakeover 6 years ago
Lots of good advice here. Just to add my two cents:<p>- Stay (get?) fit.<p>- Dress well.<p>- Avoid public displays of curmudgeonliness.<p>- Mentor the young, high-speed people.
planocoderover 6 years ago
Be better than the competition. If a company looks at age they probably are losing good people anyway. I don&#x27;t worry about it. I do Scala&#x2F;Spark. I ask if they respect personal time. If they don&#x27;t they are probably poorly managed.
karmakazeover 6 years ago
I&#x27;m in the Toronto tech startup scene and I haven&#x27;t really exexperienced age discrimination at a company level. Maybe at an individual level but not that I&#x27;ve noticed. I specialize in backent, SRE, and devops.
tungwaiyipover 6 years ago
Not really. I get a lot of spam from recruiters. I also get feeler from people I have worked with before. Last time I look for work, I got multiple job offers after one week. San Francisco&#x27;s tech job market is hot.
stblackover 6 years ago
Always deliver superlative value, and your customers take care of you.
PopeDotNinjaover 6 years ago
There is no replacement for knowing your shit and being valuable.
koosnelover 6 years ago
I am in ny early 30s and working on post graduate research at night. I do it because it is interesting but also to be employable in a academic context later in my life.
velaru_over 6 years ago
I am 41 and work with a 68-year-old dev and a 51-year-old. Love coding and be apart of the team. Young guys will forget your age after a bit.
RickJWagnerover 6 years ago
I&#x27;ve just worked hard and tried to find opportunities to keep my skills current.<p>So far, I haven&#x27;t noticed any problems. Less than a decade to go!
planocoderover 6 years ago
Be better than the competition. If a company looks at age the probably are losing good people anyway. I don&#x27;t sorry about it.
DoctorBitover 6 years ago
Nice try, IBM!
hullseanover 6 years ago
The same way i did at 25. Be better!
cflatover 6 years ago
Teaching.
purplezooeyover 6 years ago
Quit and work at Starbucks. I do like the coffee, though.
fredgrottover 6 years ago
okay I am in this now...<p>My funnel is targeted for specific startup cofounders having trouble finding expert android devs...expert in the sense that they as either the tech cofounder or the creative cofounder already know that their android app should be on kotlin and using redux not MVI or MVVM.<p>Basically building the demo apps show them and start the discussion.
Iolympianover 6 years ago
Here&#x27;s the thing, it&#x27;s about your value proposition (what are you offering).<p>All things equal, how many days can you work without sleep? How much do you need to get paid to do the job?<p>Age is just a coincidental number that correlates (doesn&#x27;t cause) to number being able to program for days on end without suffering increasing consequences, and getting a programming job for $15 &#x2F; hr not being suitable to handle a mortgage, truck payment, kids braces, and the things that come with the higher age number.<p>So, if you are starting out at 40 and someone is competing for a beginner job at 18, they are going to be the obvious choice because 1) they are typically more of an open book, and 2) you can pay them $15 &#x2F; hr to get the same work that you would need to charge $40&#x2F;hr to do.<p>That being said. The other side of it is if you have been programming since you were 7 and are now 42 with 20 solid years of professional experience competing with Joe Youngster who wrote his first line of code last year and has been to a programming boot camp.<p>Part of the issues are that you still have the stigma of 1) not being able to sacrifice time&#x2F;sleep for code, 2) are more expensive.<p>Both of which are accurate.<p>However, if you are competing for a job that an 18 year old qualifies for after 20 years of experience, something is amiss.<p>I&#x27;ve seen this MANY times and am guilty of it myself, where a person will spend years spinning their wheels and not actually increasing their skills. It happens to a lot of people. You could get the same year of experience 20 times over (there was a good article written about that, good read, don&#x27;t have the link handy). So &quot;20 years of experience&quot; boils down to 1 year of experience that you have practiced 20 times over.<p>After 20 years, younger programmers should not be able to compete with you. Not because they can&#x27;t write code as well as you. It has nothing to do with that.<p>But the experience should have taught you and made second-nature all the design patterns, all the best practices, all the security tricks, all the devops.<p>An 18 yo can code, but they can&#x27;t build a palace out of code yet (and if they can, they are typically swept up quickly). It takes years to go from knowing how to lay a brick to how to design a brick building to never crumble even if someone is beating it with a fallen tree.<p>While age descrimination exists (the concept of a senior developer is iffy sometimes), and I experienced it for the first time last year when someone said &quot;no thanks&quot; and hung up when they asked how any years experience I have; it doesn&#x27;t exist when you are actually shooting for jobs that require 20 legitimate years of experience.<p>Some programmers settle back knowing they could code the world, but don&#x27;t actually do it. Or code something twice as fast. Or 5 times as solid. Or with 567% less bugs.<p>What makes the 20 year experience you better than the 19 year experience you?<p>If you cannot sell that one year of difference, then it&#x27;s not age discrimination, it&#x27;s skill discrimination.<p>And to answer your actual questions.... :-D<p>What is your stack: After 21 years, I&#x27;ve work in .Net&#x2F;Java&#x2F;Node.js&#x2F;LAMP(erl&amp;HP) stacks plus tinkered with others. Now I do application security.<p>How have you gotten around age discrimination: When I&#x27;ve been discriminated against, I feel like I dodged a bullet, because who would want to work with &#x2F; for someone that judges the content of a book by the wear of the spine?<p>How do you suss out whether a company is right for you? I focus on team and personal questions when I interview a company. What&#x27;s the team culture, do they support members teaching each other, do they foster speaking at conferences, etc. The more information flow between developers and the industry the better, generally. That indicates a supportive culture rather than a competitive culture. Ask to speak to people you will be working with. &quot;Their references&quot;.<p>I ask personal questions of interviewers. What is their next skill they are going to work on? What was the last issue they tackled that really taught them something new? Do they seem themselves with this company in 10 years? What was the last conference they attended? Was that on their own time? When was the last time they had an opportunity to speak at a conference?<p>Don&#x27;t worry about getting into personal questions relating to their job.<p>I&#x27;ve found that tells me more (not necessarily their answers, but also how they answer) about the culture than the standard shpiels.<p>It&#x27;s ALL about culture. A crap boss and crap co-workers will never be made for with good pay or high-skills in the long run.
OSS542over 6 years ago
I haven&#x27;t
dejaimeover 6 years ago
being good
sexyrouterover 6 years ago
Sure but it&#x27;s not the only descrimination my friend who is also 50 faced.<p>She&#x27;s been working in tech companies for long and it&#x27;s sad that some 20 somethings call her MILF when she&#x27;s not around.<p>Age descrimination is a very small thing in the grand scheme of things, so she said she doesn&#x27;t feel much descriminated as age is a proxy for experience if you are good with what you do.