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Why You Can't Trust Recuiters

70 pointsby gacbaover 14 years ago

15 comments

zavulonover 14 years ago
This is a really bad article. There are so many ways recruiters add value.<p>1) If you apply to places like Goldman Sachs off the street, chances are your resume is not going to even get a look. Of course, if you know somebody on the inside, that's the best way to get in, but if you don't? Going through a recruiter who has a good relationship with a client is the next best way to get in.<p>2) A good recruiter will teach you how to write a resume. Yes, some unethical recruiters will tell you to write things you never did, etc.. but a good recruiter will tell you HOW to write it the right way, so HR people don't look it over. Sometimes as a developer, you never know..<p>I've had friends who got phone calls from HR: "It says here you're a PHP expert, but do you know HTML? HTML is a requirement for this job." My friend didn't put HTML on his resume because he assumed anyone would know PHP implies HTML. But not to HR people, who are generally clueless.. a good recruiter will teach you that.<p>3) A good recruiter will teach you how to behave at the interview and what to/what not to say. Again, not talking about lying. It's things like asking a lot of questions, displaying enthusiasm, what to answer to "How much money you want?" (hint: the correct answer is "Look, I'm very excited for this job and it looks like it's a great fit.. I'm sure you'll treat me fairly, so I'm open to hear what you have in mind"), etc.<p>4) If you develop a good relationship with a good recruiter, he will give you invaluable career advice. For example: did you know that most hiring manager don't want to hire someone whose longest assignment is &#60; 1 year? They call these people "job-hoppers" and never want to deal with them. I had no idea about this, before recruiter told me ...<p>There's a lot more, but the point is: there are some bad recruiters, and some good recruiters. Bad recruiters are to be avoided.. but good recruiters will give you a LOT of value.<p>Disclaimer: couple of my friends are recruiters.
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mseebachover 14 years ago
What I REALLY don't understand is recruiters' (or their clients) insistence of scrubbing the name of the company from the job ad (yeah, it's so you don't go and apply directly so they don't get their fees).<p>I once saw an ad for a BBC-job that led to a recruiter-site that referred to an unnamed international media corporation. How is it ever worthwhile to hide that you're the BBC? Similarly, there are swathes of job ads for vaguely defined entities, which makes it incredibly hard to (a) get excited about applying (b) know how to sell yourself (c) is this the same job as this other <i>almost</i> identically worded ad?.<p>I once saw an ad for a position in a non-profit. Presumably with below-market salaries. But all it said was that it's for a non-profit!? Is "caring about non-profit stuff" considered a binary state?
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canterburryover 14 years ago
I have been using recruiters for the last 10 years and I agree that it is very easy to be taken advantage of if you don't know how to use them.<p>First, go to the recruiter who can give you the best deal. That means, don't say yes to the first person who calls you. Tell them you'll get back to them and then check out the boards for whoever else is in the running. Apply to them all, talk to them all, and then decide which one you are the most comfortable dealing with. Even if the company isn't mentioned, it's fairly easy to compare requirements.<p>Second, know your price and be willing to walk away. The only reason you get screwed on rates is because you allow it. If you are not willing/able to walk away when your price isn't being met, then you have already lost. The competition for candidates is fierce so if you stand firm and you have the skills, you can often get the recruiter to submit you even if your price is above where the client is willing to go. Get your resume in front of the client and have them reconsider their price. If they still don't budge, walk away.<p>Third, they are a necessary evil since many jobs can't be accessed (or with great difficulty) without them. This is not because the headhunter makes it difficult, it's because the hiring company doesn't want to deal with the recruitment process and give headhunters an exclusive on the job.
jdp23over 14 years ago
I've worked with some great recruiters in the past. Especially when you're growing rapidly, or in times when the market is red-hot and it's hard to find and close the best candidates, they can really help leverage a company's resources.<p>Sure, there are a lot of bozos and unethical recruiters out there -- and plenty of times when it is just adding overhead. But it's a big mistake to paint everybody with the same brush. Instead, I'd say the thing to do is ask around and see who has a good reputation; try them out and see how well they work for you; and if you have good results, try to make it into a long-term relationship.
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perceptover 14 years ago
Don't trust 'em, use 'em.<p>In FTE positions I've found recruiters to be particularly effective in negotiating higher salaries. I believe that's because 1) in a negotiation they're better situated to play the "bad cop" role, and 2) the customer may be more willing to pay a premium for the assurance a professional firm ostensibly provides.<p>In contracting it's a different dynamic; the client agrees to an hourly rate and you fight the recruiter for your cut (and if you're happy with the cut then you still win). It's like "lease vs. buy" from the client's perspective.
larsbergover 14 years ago
There are some good recruiters out there. And, they can be particularly helpful if you are trying to make a field change (i.e. break into finance) when you don't have any background in it.<p>Also, not <i>any</i> job will work. Many tech recruiters don't get paid unless you stay at the job for 6mo-1yr, so there's a definite incentive to make sure the job is not a total misfit.<p>But, yeah, if you're a new college graduate or just making a shift within a field you are already successful at, a recruiter is probably not worthwhile.
ZeroMinxover 14 years ago
I think this was outlined in the first Freakonomics book.<p>I am constantly fascinated that most recruiters are doing such poor jobs -- examples include bad matching (oh you got java on your CV, do you want this web designer job, it mentions javascript) -- as this is a role that can be eliminated, I would think they would really try to add value, to avoid being replaced by a website.
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bitwizeover 14 years ago
The last recruiter I went through was an interesting fellow. Youngish, and fond of striking out on his own.<p>The recruitment firm was a dreary affair. They had a postage stamp of posh office space in the throbbing center of Boston. The postage stamp was divided in half and on one side were Java recruitments; on the other .NET recruitments. Both sides were full of people chattering and monitor screens mounted up high. It was like a miniature Wall Street floor.<p>This guy coached me on interviewing and even lent me a tie to wear during the first phases of the interview process. He was experimenting with placing people in robotics companies, and he got me the most challenging and exciting job I've had so far. I still work there.<p>But yeah, for the most part I don't trust recruiters. I <i>knew</i> this one was different from the rest, and I'll be surprised to find his like again.
DanielBMarkhamover 14 years ago
I've done the recruiter thing quite a bit early on in my career, so I think I have a little to add here.<p>A good recruiter spends a bunch of time getting to know people so I can spend that same time working on my skills. They're an expert not only at making friendships, but on finding and understanding what types of jobs these people have.<p>Yes, they are motivated by get-any-deal-done. But I am motivated to take the highest price, and unlike the real-estate example, I can deal with 20 recruiters a week if I want to -- there are no exclusive locks.<p>So it's in my best interests to spread the word about my skills in an easily digestible format to as many recruiters as possible, and to make the best impression on each recruiter as they call (so they'll remember me)<p>After that it's just a numbers game. Let the recruiters fight it out over who has the best jobs, or who is able to deal with clients with really tough problems. Recruiters are tools, as much as they think they are rock stars, their job is just one of providing trust between a party with needs and a party who can provide for those needs. Personally I think the rates some of them charge should be unethical (a percentage off the top for each hour in a multiple-year relationship? Crazy) but their job is to ask for anything. Hey, it's a free country. You can ask for whatever you want, right?<p>I think, from the getting-a-job standpoint, that its just a game. Recruiters call me up and offer me all kinds of low-end, low-ball jobs. They actively try to make me take the lowest rate possible so their split can be higher. They fake parts of resumes. So what? I'm nice to all of them, only deal with the best and honest, and let the rest of them go about whatever they think of as being good business. Even with the most honorable, we haggle over rates and such. That's the way its supposed to be. That's the fun of the marketplace (although it drives many engineers nuts, I understand)<p>Now from the other side of the desk, I can see where recruiters could be a huge pain in the ass -- taking up all sorts of my time talking about positions that they are never going to fill anyway. But even then there are strategies you have to employ to be a good at your part of the game.<p>I just think "you can't trust recruiters" is a bit trite. You can't trust a lot of people of various walks of life. But some you can. So only work with those. Learn the game and play it well. I've had amazing relationships with recruiters. Some are really good people. They have different incentives than me, but that doesn't mean I can't trust them. I just need to understand where they are coming from.
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sdizdarover 14 years ago
The reason why recruiters are needed is because companies are very bad in answering and maintaining their job posts and open positions. Recruiter will spend time establishing contacts with all possible prospects.<p>Lets take example of seatgeek.com - great way to get applicants. However, did they send at least thank you email to all people which break thru their system (even if person didn't submit resume)? No. On the other hand, good recruiter will definitely follow up - even if a message he/she received from you was not directly about hiring.<p>Did you ever try to get a job in a big company by applying to job post on web site?<p>Just try the following experiment: If a recruiter of some big company (Google, IBM, Symantec, etc.) calls you then just say that you will think about it and you will call him or her back. Then, in parallel, submit your resume to that company web site. You will probably get no answer at all. Then, after waiting, call recruiter back. And, if you are good, they will tell you that can arrange you an interview in a week or so.
leftnodeover 14 years ago
I'm at the point where I'll seek out a job if it specifically doesn't deal with a technical recruiter. Even if it pays less, not having to deal with them is worth it.<p>Between their lack of knowledge about technology and their overall "used car salesmen" tactics, I don't trust the whole lot of them. I know that's prejudicial, but I haven't had a good experience yet.
ShabbyDooover 14 years ago
A friend with a Harvard MBA was selling his house and thought that the standard real-estate commission structure where the commission percentage goes down as the price goes up was absurd. He negotiated a commission structure where, up until the price point where simply slapping a sign out front with that price quoted would result in a sale, the commission was 2%. From there on up, it was 10%. So, the agent had a stronger incentive to find a buyer willing to pay a high price. My friend ended up selling for a low-ish price, but he didn't pay much of a commission.<p>The biggest difference between the standard real estate model and the standard headhunting model is exclusivity. A headhunter is motivated to "throw paper" at a hiring manager when multiple recruiting firms are competing to fill a role. I think that retained search may be a better option, but it's rarely used at lower levels for some reason.
anon114over 14 years ago
Another problem with recruiters is conflict of interest. They likely can't be seen to poach one client's employees for another.<p>If the recruiter is large and they represent many clients, the pool of talent you can pull from via the recruiter may not include someone very qualified and presently employed somewhere with no room for advancement they deserve.<p>If you had just advertised the job on LinkedIn and done some cursory research yourself before going to a headhunter, you might be able to access that resource. At a cheaper price, even.
retubeover 14 years ago
This is just 2 examples (real-estate, recruitment) of a general commercial rule: trust no-one! Most of the time the interests and motivations of the guy selling you x/y/z are not aligned with yours.
vorgover 14 years ago
Real estate agents are like the dealer in blackjack: they always sit on 17. Playing with recruiters means you go bust on 21 instead of 22: they add even less value than real estate agents.