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Launch HN: Cosmic JS (YC W19) - API-first drop-in replacement for WordPress

101 pointsby tonyspiroabout 6 years ago
Hey HN,<p>I&#x27;m Tony, one of the cofounders of Cosmic JS (YC W19) (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cosmicjs.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cosmicjs.com</a>). Cosmic JS is a drop-in replacement for WordPress that can power content for any website or app. We provide a web dashboard to create content and API tools and resources (REST and GraphQL) to integrate content into any new or existing project. Commonly referred to as a &quot;Headless CMS&quot;, this eliminates the need to build and maintain your own CMS infrastructure. For a monthly fee, you use our CMS infrastructure and can focus on what really matters: building great products and user experiences.<p>My cofounder Carson and I met at a digital agency where we built and managed WordPress websites. We noticed that lots of development time was spent building and maintaining the CMS itself, sucking time away from core application development. Plus we encountered the same CMS problems over and over: automatic updates caused sites to crash, a client would decide to install a bunch of plugins that caused the site to crash, comment spam was a never-ending battle. We began looking for a better way to manage content.<p>This was 2014 and API services were becoming more popular (Stripe, Twilio, SendGrid etc were gaining traction in offloading non-core dev tasks), and it made sense that using an API could be a viable way to deal with content as well. So Cosmic JS was created to be the solution that we wanted to use: one click to add a new project, unlimited projects with a single login, a simple web dashboard to create content, and API tools and resources to integrate content into any new or existing website or app. No CMS infrastructure needed.<p>After much beta testing, we eventually released to the public in 2016. We&#x27;re now powering production websites and apps for hundreds of teams around the world across various use-cases.<p>We know the market for a solution to this problem is big because WordPress, as of this posting, powers 30% of the web. That’s 75,000,000 websites (source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.whoishostingthis.com&#x2F;compare&#x2F;wordpress&#x2F;stats&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.whoishostingthis.com&#x2F;compare&#x2F;wordpress&#x2F;stats&#x2F;</a>). Plus the need for dynamic content extends beyond websites. Mobile, IOT and other emerging tech are increasingly requiring dynamic, easily integrated content.<p>This is a hard problem to solve because a CMS has to satisfy the needs of both developers and content creators. We&#x27;re different than other headless CMS providers because lots of effort has been made to make the CMS admin dashboard and content integration process as easy as possible for both the developer and content creator. We’ve been told “it doesn’t get much simpler”. We’re also very committed to education and community. We&#x27;re the only headless CMS that comes with a community of developers built-in providing hundreds of apps, extensions, and integrations to learn best practices and teach others. You can get up and running with a variety of use-cases in just a few clicks. And we have a free plan that rewards contributors with a free personal Bucket forever.<p>Check out some of the apps built with Cosmic JS: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cosmicjs.com&#x2F;apps" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cosmicjs.com&#x2F;apps</a>.<p>We&#x27;re excited to be participating in Y Combinator for the W19 batch to help more teams avoid the pain of CMS infrastructure management so they can focus on building great products.<p>We&#x27;d love to hear your feedback and learn more about your personal experiences building content-powered websites and apps!

26 comments

claytongulickabout 6 years ago
Going to be a hard lift to compete with the likes of <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;strapi.io" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;strapi.io</a> when you aren&#x27;t open source.<p>I&#x27;m all for the headless CMS space, but I&#x27;ll never recommend a solution to my clients that causes vendor lock-in and that I don&#x27;t have the ability to operationalize myself.<p>Most folks in this space, wordpress included, follow a model of &quot;open source, but pay us to scale and operationalize it for you&quot;.<p>They follow this model because it works.<p>As a CTO making decisions for my company, I&#x27;m not going to take the risk on a startup in this space without an open source fallback plan.
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eroppleabout 6 years ago
Up front: congratulations on shipping. <i>Shipping is hard.</i> My impressions from looking at CosmicJS are not super positive, though, and maybe this will be of some use to you.<p>WordPress has problems. Big parts of WordPress sucks. But WordPress-the-thing is hard to argue with. It doesn&#x27;t demonstrate a need to conflate <i>sites</i> with <i>apps</i> (maybe that impresses low-information folks but as a developer and a content creator I am left asking &quot;so what?&quot;) and it doesn&#x27;t need to hide its brain as a revenue model--they make a lot of money despite WP&#x2F;WPMU both being open source. And somebody who has spent a decent chunk of time and money wrangling CMSes--I don&#x27;t see a ton of value to a CMS I can&#x27;t audit and can&#x27;t just <i>run myself</i>. The `and` is important there. I&#x27;m happy to pay for support--and sometimes for operationalization, I&#x27;ve paid WPEngine a decent amount of money over the last few years--but I pay for support once I&#x27;ve validated the use case.<p>Perhaps I&#x27;m not the target audience. But I&#x27;m asking &quot;why would I use this?&quot; and coming up kind of empty. Beyond that, what <i>does</i> trouble me is the way in which you&#x27;re intensely attempting to slag WordPress (which, tbh, rings hollow; &quot;flies don&#x27;t bite a man who&#x27;s sure of himself&quot; and all that). You can use WP as an API these days, and it&#x27;s not bad. Not perfect, but not bad. But you can also do that with other headless CMSes, and I&#x27;m not really catching much differentiation between CosmicJS and those, either? The whole thing is coming off like low-information-targeting to me and that immediately makes me ask &quot;OK, where&#x27;s the grift?&quot;. I assume that isn&#x27;t your intent, and I&#x27;m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. But that&#x27;s kind of the message I&#x27;m picking up here, and that might be something to work on.
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JesseAldridgeabout 6 years ago
What does &quot;drop-in replacement for WordPress&quot; mean exactly?<p>At first I thought it meant I could maybe go to cosmicjs.com, enter a url and the username and password for my WordPress site, hit a button and have my site magically migrated to something that was 10x better.<p>But I guess what you actually mean is &quot;WordPress clone&quot; which doesn&#x27;t seem as exciting.
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tmikaeldabout 6 years ago
I have a hard time justifying the pricing here.<p>Wordpress is &quot;free&quot; vs CosmicJS is 49$&#x2F;mo minimum without backup and only 3GB space.<p>For 49$&#x2F;mo you could get a cloud VPS for Wordpress, including backups and even high-availability with no request limits (API limits in CosmicJS).<p>I know it&#x27;s not straight comparable, but..
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o_____________oabout 6 years ago
Now would be a good time to come for Wordpress and their huge failure in their new editor called Gutenberg.<p>Gutenberg promises to have WYSIWYG editable React components, which is a big deal, but they made insane decisions like storing the attributes in HTML, rendering HTML in the database, and requiring component developers to keep an array of deprecated changes when they want to modify anything on the component. In other words: you want to add a new CSS class to your component? Need an entirely new component for that in addition to maintaining the last one. Failure to deprecate will result in something like a fatal error in the editor that the user can&#x27;t recover from. It&#x27;s like PHP-era decisions with modern promises.<p>People are thrashing around in Github Issues, but the team seems unbothered. I would pay $$$$ for someone to unseat them.
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codegeekabout 6 years ago
What is your plan to beat WordPress or get people to switch to your CMS away from WordPress ? There are plenty of other CMS providers out there who are doing a decent job but no one is able to take out the giant that is WordPress due to its market share and the community of support and plugin eco-system.<p>Also, terms such as &quot;headless CMS&quot; does not mean much to a regular user who is looking for a &quot;site in WordPress&quot;. So is your intended audience primarily developers and freelancers&#x2F;agencies ?
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nickthemagicmanabout 6 years ago
Because you&#x27;re closed source and charge outrageous amounts for a service that&#x27;s been done a billion times.... I actually hope Wordpress puts your company out of business.<p>I would hate for naive people to get trapped in your ecosystem and continue to get overcharged for no reason.
jtippensabout 6 years ago
I&#x27;m currently using Cosmic JS for a personal project, and so far I&#x27;ve been really impressed -- I was able to launch my site in under an hour, and that was starting completely from scratch with no prior knowledge of Cosmic and having never used a headless CMS before.<p>One thing that helped a ton was the availability of pre-built templates; there happened to be a node app template that fit my frontend use case perfectly, so I was able make the tweaks I wanted and launch.
ddriabout 6 years ago
Congrats on the progress so far. I can attest from spinning Corilla out of Red Hat and the journey we had with it, that there&#x27;s always a niche for CMS or knowledge management tools.<p>Especially in the Series A to Series B segment, where ability to change, and necessity to remove complexity, meet the sudden availability of funds to assist. That&#x27;s where your example of &quot;you can pay X and hour for your engineer or Y a month for us to handle it&quot; works well. How will you pitch this moving further up-market? Especially where the opex exists that dev costs are less important. And vendor lock-in (or likelihood of existing in five years) becomes an issue?<p>And further up the enterprise scale, the greater the demand for a robust open source community. Is this on your roadmap? If not, why not? Especially given you use Wordpress as an example, and most of the industry itself using open source as a basis for content engineering tools. It&#x27;s now the default expectation. Even moreso with the likes of near competitors like Strapi being open source. Thoughts?<p>Your app library is nice, but much like Gatsby or Hugo... it&#x27;s not &quot;wow&quot;. Any plans to ramp up the devrel? How will you stand out from all the other headless CMS products? Especially with the likes of Contentful so well funded. Are you worried that the lack of open source cuts off the lower end of the market and community growth, and the war chest of competitors at the higher level of the market constrains your customer base somewhat?<p>And.. wat will CosmisJS look like in two and five years? What I love about CMS teams is the creativity and intent of the awesome people who run them, so I&#x27;d love to hear more about the big vision too! :)
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csbartusabout 6 years ago
Is it me, or the latest YC batch is rolling out negative surprises?<p>First, a magazine startup with sloppy design when design should be their foremost asset (after content): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19320608" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19320608</a><p>Now a WP replacement which showcases and labels a sloppy editor as Delightful Experience ... <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cosmicjs.com&#x2F;headless-cms#features--content-creators" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cosmicjs.com&#x2F;headless-cms#features--content-creators</a><p>Have you checked Gutenberg, the lates WP editor? It does blocks, like Contentful, Strapi and the other few dozens competing on the headless CMS scene.<p>Headless CMS is in equal part about content creation and content delivery ... a REST API and Graphql is not enough.<p>Sorry for the harsh words again but ... I do Wordpress since the beginning and I’m actively searching for a replacement. Yet dissatisfied again with a YC startup, the second disappointment in two days.<p>Tell me it’s coincidence.
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dimitry12about 6 years ago
If anyone is interested in a much-much more basic version of headless-CMS (micro-CMS): check out <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dropconfig.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dropconfig.com&#x2F;</a> - we built it as a collaborative repository+hosting for JSON files.<p>You can use it to manage all variable things in your app, including content itself, of course.<p>It literally takes less than a minute to get started, because you can create an &quot;anonymous&quot; dropconfig without signing-up.
artparabout 6 years ago
Shameless plug<p>If you are looking for a self-hosted opensource MIT licensed option, checkout Daptin<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;daptin&#x2F;daptin" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;daptin&#x2F;daptin</a><p>I have been working on this since about a year and half, use it across a bunch of my own personal sites and desktop apps.<p>Would love to elaborate if there is interest :)
tmikaeldabout 6 years ago
In Wordpress we can combine plugins to create a &quot;whole&quot; system, but your app directory looks like a ton of separate applications - which means, you can&#x27;t pull together a bunch of plugins to create a complete system like with wordpress.<p>Or am i missing something?
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harrisonjacksonabout 6 years ago
How do you position yourselves against someone like <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.contentful.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.contentful.com</a> ? Seems like a similar product, though less targeted directly at Wordpress Devs.
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laurynas-sabout 6 years ago
I was looking something like this when I wanted to add a blog for my React SPA apps. I didn&#x27;t want WordPress, but I wanted a simple backend just for editing the blog posts.<p>However, I realised that it is going to be bad for SEO as I cannot do serverside rendering this way.<p>I cosidered adding a WordPress blog, but eventually just ended up with a simple markdown rendering from the files - 1 file - 1 post.<p>If you manage to find a easy way to support serverside rendering, the product is going to be good.
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smacktowardabout 6 years ago
Just my $0.02, as someone who&#x27;s been building things on WordPress more or less full-time for something like a decade now, and working with various other CMSes for another decade before that.<p><i>&gt; Cosmic JS is a drop-in replacement for WordPress</i><p>I don&#x27;t know what &quot;drop-in replacement&quot; means in this context. To me, a drop-in replacement for WordPress would offer one or more of the following features:<p>1. Connect to my existing WordPress content database and use it as its content store<p>2. Use my existing WordPress theme to define its presentation<p>3. Provide APIs that are 100% identical to the existing WordPress APIs (the Plugin API, the REST API, etc.)<p>4. Allow loading and running existing WordPress plugins without modification<p>I don&#x27;t see how Cosmic JS does any of these things. Some of them it addresses partially, an example being that there is a content importer available to pull content in from a WP site. But that still doesn&#x27;t feel like a &quot;drop-in&quot; solution to me. A drop-in solution means I can pull out WordPress and replace it with the new thing without having to think much or rebuild anything, which does not seem to be the case here.<p><i>&gt; We noticed that lots of development time was spent building and maintaining the CMS itself, sucking time away from core application development.</i><p>I don&#x27;t understand this. WordPress famously installs in five minutes, and once that&#x27;s done you only have to deal with it by installing updates, which is increasingly something it can do on its own without your intervention.<p>It may just be a matter of semantics - to me, &quot;core application development&quot; on WP is everything you do beyond installing WP itself: designing content architecture, selecting or building plugins and themes, etc. The &quot;application&quot; in the WP context is the complete bundle of database content, first-party code and third-party code you assemble to create a given site.<p><i>&gt; automatic updates caused sites to crash</i><p>I have literally never seen this. Never. If anything, my complaint on automatic updates is that the WP core team has been so cautious to avoid breaking sites that it&#x27;s made getting automatic updates into the hands of WP users a glacially slow process.<p><i>&gt; a client would decide to install a bunch of plugins that caused the site to crash</i><p>Any sufficiently popular CMS that allows third-party extensions is going to have this problem. There are going to be third parties out there writing crappy code, and users out there who get dazzled by the marketing of that crappy code and install it. If your solution to this problem is to tell users they can&#x27;t install third-party extensions, or to drastically limit what those extensions can do, you&#x27;re going to be at a severe marketing disadvantage to systems that don&#x27;t have those limitations. There are lots of dumb people out there who desperately want to do these dumb things, and don&#x27;t like being told the reason they can&#x27;t is because it&#x27;s for their own good.<p><i>&gt; comment spam was a never-ending battle</i><p>Turn comments off (which you&#x27;d do on any non-blog site you&#x27;re building with WordPress), problem solved. If for some brain-damaged reason you <i>want</i> comments, install Akismet (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;akismet.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;akismet.com&#x2F;</a>), problem solved.<p><i>&gt; We&#x27;re the only headless CMS that comes with a community of developers built-in</i><p>WordPress itself is <i>becoming</i> a headless CMS. WordPress.com already provides a REST API (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.wordpress.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;api&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.wordpress.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;api&#x2F;</a>), so if you just want to host your frontend and let a remote service host the software and database, you can do that with WordPress. (You can also do it with self-hosted WP, but the value proposition is less obvious there since you still have to run and maintain all the complicated backend stuff.)<p>If what I really want is a headless CMS, and WordPress has already started providing me with a way to satisfy that desire and is clearly going to be doing even more along those lines in the future, why should I switch? What do I get by switching that compensates for losing all the other stuff that comes along with using WP?<p><i>&gt; providing hundreds of apps, extensions, and integrations</i><p>I guarantee you do not have as many of any of these things as WordPress does.<p>Please note that none of these things are issues with the Cosmic JS product itself. (For all I know, it may be very good!) <i>They are 100% about the way you are pitching and positioning it.</i> If you came to me, a guy who&#x27;s responsible for dozens of WP sites, and used this positioning to pitch Cosmic to me as a replacement engine for all those sites, I would not find it to be a very compelling pitch. A cursory examination of the product leads me to be skeptical that it would really be an actual drop-in replacement -- and if I&#x27;m going to have to rebuild those sites to use the product, then suddenly it&#x27;s not just competing with WordPress, it&#x27;s competing with WordPress and every other potential CMS I could rebuild them on. Now I&#x27;m doing what (IIRC) Joel Spolsky called &quot;the dreaded market survey,&quot; which means now there&#x27;s a million paths I could end up going down other than the one that leads me to buying your product. You <i>do not want that.</i> You want to keep me focused tightly on your product, not start me out window shopping.<p>So my suggestion would be to retune the way you pitch this product. If it really <i>is</i> a drop-in replacement for WP, make it clearer exactly how and why. If it really <i>isn&#x27;t</i>, then don&#x27;t pitch it that way. Find some angle that Cosmic JS has that both makes it superior to WordPress and is clearly taking it in a direction that WP can&#x27;t or won&#x27;t go, and lean on that.<p>I hope this advice is helpful, and that it is received in the spirit of cheerful willingness to help with which it is sent!
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taytusabout 6 years ago
The page insight report is really really bad: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developers.google.com&#x2F;speed&#x2F;pagespeed&#x2F;insights&#x2F;?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcosmicjs.com%2F" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developers.google.com&#x2F;speed&#x2F;pagespeed&#x2F;insights&#x2F;?url=...</a><p>I mean, you are providing a CMS and your own page is this slow?<p>Shouldn&#x27;t speed be the main focus?
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taytusabout 6 years ago
Question: How was your traction before you guys joined YC?<p>&gt;We&#x27;re now powering production websites and apps for hundreds of teams around the world across various use-cases.<p>I guess I don&#x27;t understand why would anyone join an accelerator with this level of traction. Seems that fundraising should be pretty straightforward.
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seanwilsonabout 6 years ago
Does this work with static site generators?<p>For the API requests per month pricing tiers, roughly how many API calls get made each time a site build is triggered for a site with say 100 blog posts?
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sbr464about 6 years ago
Which database backend are you using? Apologies if it&#x27;s been mentioned. Also, does Cosmic support graphql subscriptions or streaming&#x2F;live data?
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emilsedghabout 6 years ago
This sounds amazing. Good luck Tony. Cosmic is very useful and I wish you luck.
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deepstreamabout 6 years ago
you guys know you&#x27;ve got something important because there&#x27;s an amazing amount of pushback from hnow it alls here. a bit of a lightning rod for criticism. well done!
dustindiamondabout 6 years ago
What is your current MRR?
thomasflabout 6 years ago
Check out sanity.io. They have a somewhat similar product.
vamshi4001about 6 years ago
Sounds very good by the description! I&#x27;ll give it a try.
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ninja10about 6 years ago
A lot of skepticism and resistance here. @tonyspiro, all the best at this. I do follow what you&#x27;re doing and see the benefit of this in comparison to and also regardless of WordPress. At some point most things will be operating via APIs, and via hassle free SaaS services anyway. I, for one would not want to deal with installs, updates of any kind. It sounds like you&#x27;ve got some good traction that can hopefully continue. I will though acknowledge a few concerns:<p>1. A proper import &#x2F; export tool for risk management<p>2. A slightly more refined message &#x2F; call to action<p>3. Why the JS centric name&#x2F;brand? Can it be used outside of NodeJS based tech stacks?<p>4. The price poice does seem high for small teams. You mentioned that this is normal for SaaS for some companies you listed. However, until you&#x27;re established, it sounds a bit high. Can you perhaps go for a discount for the first X amount to time to entice potential customers?<p>Best! - K
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