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It’s not about how many countries you have been to

128 pointsby clementmasabout 6 years ago

30 comments

dalbasalabout 6 years ago
Where I live (dublin) there&#x27;s a persistent tourist subculture that photgraphs doors of georgian buildings. I&#x27;ve met several tourists with irish surnames who set out to visit every pub that has their name (hard work if you&#x27;re a murphy, kavanagh, ryan...). I met a chinese-australian couple doing an &quot;ancestry trail&quot; visitng the ancestral villages of their in-law.<p>That kind of stuff is ultimately just a frame. A way of exploring, selecting destinations, and allowing the unexpected to happen. The premise itself isn&#x27;t the point. The premise is a way of facilitating harder to target stuff: meeting people, exploring.<p>I&#x27;ve heard similar criticisms of photo-takers. They&#x27;re more concerned with photos than experiences.<p>These criticisms and accusations of shallowness are shallow themselves, and uncharitable. Collecting countries, places, pubs, doors or whatnot is just a way of deciding what to do next, and allowing experiences to happen themselves.
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netsharcabout 6 years ago
I very much agree with the article, but &quot;... instead, talk about your most memorable experience, how that one time you had this deep connection with this person in at meditation camp in Southeast Asia because you speak their language, or the quiet moment, the intense gratitude you had after a long day of cycling, after setting up camp, and looking at the beautiful sunset in the offing.&quot; makes me think of this pic: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;atimetoheal.london&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2017&#x2F;03&#x2F;Cmon-Inner-Peace.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;atimetoheal.london&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2017&#x2F;03&#x2F;Cmon-In...</a><p>Next it&#x27;ll be the trend to collect &quot;Deep moments&quot;. I guess some influencers do it on Instagram already, copy-paste a &quot;deep&quot; thought onto their vacation pic so the IG scrollers can fool themselves into thinking they&#x27;re being deep.
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zimablueabout 6 years ago
Deep travelling is also nonsense, this kind of modern travel is largely just status fencing by upper middle class people who can&#x27;t gain status through thoughts or substantive actions. Which is all fine, where it gets disgusting is tendency to somehow conflate it with virtue. &quot;He&#x27;s a really interesting person he spent 2 years in Holland&quot;. &quot;Everyone should travel.. if you don&#x27;t it betrays some closed mindedness&quot;.
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renholderabout 6 years ago
Whilst I agree with the underlying premise, there&#x27;s a touch of what the kids are calling &quot;privilege&quot; these days in the blog post that&#x27;s entirely unrealistic for the predominance of the world:<p>&quot;<i>It is way better to spend 1 month working and living in Ethiopia than 1 month visiting all the famous attractions of the African continent.</i>&quot;<p>It purely depends on a few suppositions automatically being &quot;true&quot; for everyone:<p>1. People have a enough capital for such ventures.<p>2. People have employers who will &quot;allow&quot; this.<p>3. If not via employ, then they have enough vacation per year to do ventures like that.<p>For expounding on point 3, take our American counterparts, whom only get something like two weeks off a year. They would have to either consume their sick leave (assuming that they even have it) to make the full month or just have the crap-shoot of the two weeks.<p>If that&#x27;s all that you get, would you rather take a chance that you&#x27;ll be miserable for two weeks <i>or</i> would you do what all of the other cool kids are doing and just hit the main attractions because, then, at least you&#x27;re doing <i>something</i> and you&#x27;re not sandboxing yourself into possibly being miserable for the only time that you <i>do</i> get off for the year?<p>Whilst the article seems to have the best intentions at heart, its perspective seems pretty myopic, when you take into consideration the grand stage of the world and the arresting details those other cultures might include - which is what I assume the intended audience of the blog is (e.g.: the world).
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vr46about 6 years ago
People playing cultural bingo is nothing new, but at least gives people some sense of progress and accomplishment, which is probably the priority of those people.<p>Personally, having travelled a bit, think that travelling is not about moving. If you actually want to understand anything about anything, you need to stand still for a while, and then go away and come back. It&#x27;s hard to reconcile this with being a (passport) stamp collector.
supermattabout 6 years ago
This is so true. I spent 3 years travelling through Europe in a converted military truck. I would say that of the 24 countries we have &quot;been to&quot;, we have only truly known 2 or 3 (and of those, I was born in one, and now live in another). That is despite having spent months in many places, city and countryside alike. How anyone could ever consider &quot;doing europe&quot; in anything less than a lifetime is beyond me. City-hopping, and going to the typical instagram pictures to take more of the same is not travelling, IMHO.
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keiferskiabout 6 years ago
If you can manage it, I really recommend visiting places in the off-season. You’ll get an entirely different perspective of the place, especially if it’s a touristy one. E.g. Dubrovnik in August is a humid, crowded nightmare. In February it’s an empty seaside village.
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quickthrower2about 6 years ago
Yeah I did some back packing, south east asia tours and all that and honestly I didn&#x27;t like it that much overall. You are whisked from one place to the next, 6am starts and getting drunk is the norm every night. My favorite part was just hanging out in Hanoi for a day or two without much of a plan.<p>I met people doing months of this stuff back to back around the world. I wished I had just spent the whole time in New Zealand in a couple of nice places. It would have been more relaxing and more up my street.
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rofo1about 6 years ago
Spot on article. I always preferred spending more than couple of days at a place (say, couple of months, if possible), just to see how it really is. Try to be one of them (locals) during the months you are there.<p>Also, walk. Walk in random directions, without a plan. See what&#x27;s really going on!<p>In my opinion, there&#x27;s no other way of truly experiencing another culture. Taking a picture in tourist-packed place is surely not the way to experience anything.<p>I realize that&#x27;s difficult to spend a month in another country due to other obligations (kids, work, etc.) - not sure how are we going to solve that, ever (or even if it needs &quot;solving&quot; at all). That&#x27;s just how society is structured, for now.
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keithnzabout 6 years ago
I&#x27;d say do both... in New Zealand we have the idea of an &quot;OE&quot; (Overseas Experience... and every other country is overseas for NZ). The OE often goes through asia and ends with working in England (often London) for a few years and doing excursions into Europe. Some of that can be soulless, you never really experience a place and its people. So you definitely do want to slow down and take your time with some things. But some stuff, you&#x27;ve read the history, the stories of a place and you really just want to go to the place and just &quot;touch&quot; it to feel connected to that piece of history.
seluneabout 6 years ago
Just... let people enjoy things their own way. I like taking photos of architecture and I don&#x27;t like talking to people or immersing myself into culture (I rarely even eat local food because of my diet).<p>Tourism is a form of entertainment. It doesn&#x27;t need to be &quot;deep&quot;.
Allivaabout 6 years ago
This hits home. Truly understanding a country is one thing and visiting somewhere for a few days is totally different. You don&#x27;t get to experience countries inner values in a few days nor its problems.
angarg12about 6 years ago
I see where the author is coming from, but I have the exact opposite experience.<p>Me: I&#x27;m travelling to x<p>Chap: for how long?<p>Me: 3 days<p>Chap: Only 3 days?? You need at least 1 week!<p>If it is 1 week you need 2, if it&#x27;s 2 you need one month.<p>I get the benefits of slow and deep travel, but I don&#x27;t have the money and time to spend weeks in every single location I&#x27;m going. I also feel like there is a diminishing return on how much time you spend on each place.<p>So for the last few years I have been doing this &#x27;speed travelling&#x27;, and although it might look like checkbox ticking, I feel I&#x27;m getting a wider range of (albeit shallower) experiences.<p>So it might be the case that the dial has moved way too far into the fast travel and it needs a correction, but with the experiences that I am gathering now I&#x27;ll be able to travel deep and slow to my favourite places later in life.
peteretepabout 6 years ago
&gt; It is way better to spend 1 month working and living in Ethiopia than 1 month visiting all the famous attractions of the African continent<p>Is it though? I have lived on a bunch of different continents, traveled both fast and slow, and this kind of weird elitism about getting a “true cultural experience” is way overdone.<p>You want a true cultural experience? Catch a local tropical disease. Pay a bribe. Get in a road traffic accident. There’s nothing special about getting bitten by a dog in the Caribbean as opposed to Bali. People are about the same everywhere.
KozmoNau7about 6 years ago
Every time I&#x27;ve traveled somewhere, I&#x27;ve deliberately kept the plans extremely vague. My biggest priority is to sample the local culture primarily through food and drink, and to avoid the stereotypical tourist traps.<p>So far, this approach has been a resounding success. I just don&#x27;t get the people who need to plan out their vacations in every detail. To me, the entire purpose is to relax and let life unfold on its own, away from the routine of everyday life.
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wenhamabout 6 years ago
Sounds to me like keeping up with the Jones&#x27; but in a different way. &quot;Oh you&#x27;ve been to 20 counties? Well I&#x27;ve done one, but covered it 20 times deeper&quot; Does any of it really matter? You experience life for you, not anyone else, if you get more out of speed running every country you can than spending a year in Provence- then that is the way to go.<p>Both are good, both are bad, both are nothing to keep score over.
platzabout 6 years ago
The advice here boils down to: don&#x27;t just vacation, quit your job and take up a freelance&#x2F;remote worker lifestyle for an unknown period of time.
abcd_fabout 6 years ago
&gt; <i>Rue Cremieux, a trending attraction in Paris</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;technology-47482034" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;technology-47482034</a> - the other side of the same coin. &quot;Paris street to shut out Instagrammers&quot;.
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bmmayer1about 6 years ago
Something I can relate to, having &quot;done&quot; 85 countries myself (yes, I&#x27;m one of those &#x27;shallow&#x27; travelers who counts countries).<p>This article is right in some ways. It&#x27;s right in that deep travel experiences are almost always more memorable than shallow ones; that traveling by hitchhike will get you more face time with locals than traveling by rent-a-car. If you travel to truly understand a place, you need to spend real time there (I define &#x27;real time&#x27; as at least 2-3 weeks, which is an eternity in travel world, since you really fully immerse yourself in the place during that time).<p>But it&#x27;s wrong to try to define a right way to travel, as if there is some authentic travel nirvana that all travelers could or should reach.<p>First of all, it depends on what kind of traveler you are, and why you travel. If you travel to learn about as many places as possible, because you crave exposure to new experiences and cultures, and you know that every time you go someplace new you learn something new that you never would have known if you hadn&#x27;t gone, travel has to be somewhat of a quantity game--unless you are a full-time traveller and have the luxury (or the tolerance for nomadship) to live on the road.<p>But most of all, there really is no &#x27;wrong&#x27; way to travel.<p>There will always be people who criticize Club Med-goers and cruise-takers for only dabbling in &#x27;tourist traps&#x27;, glampers for not doing &#x27;real&#x27; camping, backpackers for living like &#x27;hippies&#x27; without jobs and &#x27;vacationing&#x27; in other peoples&#x27; poverty, hostel-stayers for hanging out too much with other tourists, expats for isolating themselves from the countries they live in, students abroad for not making friends with locals, homestayers for not learning the language, peace corps volunteers for being neocolonial, missionary trips for dressing a vacation as charity...at the end of the day, every traveler is trying to explore their horizons at their comfort level, and no one who travels is truly ever &quot;authentic&quot; in their experience, no matter how many chickens they pluck themselves or squat toilets they use.<p>All travelers are just visitors, and before long they will leave, and everyone who knows them on their journey knows that their stay is temporary, whether it is 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months or 3 years. The best you can do is learn as much as you can in the time you have, be open minded, and take your lessons with you when you go home, or to the next place.<p>Unless you&#x27;re moving to a place permanently, starting a family and plan to die there, you&#x27;re a transient, and you have no right to criticize how other people choose to be transients in their own way. Every traveler is better off for the experience and the world is better off for the cultural exchange and greater global understanding facilitated by travelers.
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grecyabout 6 years ago
I agree with the article, and I will also say if you&#x27;re looking for a truly special experience, make the effort and go places on the planet where tourists simply don&#x27;t venture.<p>In West Africa I repeatedly had people say &quot;What means Tourist&quot; and often people would want to touch me because they had never seen a white person.<p>I took a stupidly small route from Nigeria into Cameroon, and the Immigration guy that I eventually tracked down was more than a little shocked to see me. In three years working there, he had never seen a single foreigner.<p>When you spend time with people like that, it is a genuine experience, and sitting on floors to share communal food or being hosted in people&#x27;s houses is something I will never forget as long as I live.
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rebuilderabout 6 years ago
The main reason I don&#x27;t like urban travel is it takes so long to get to know a place. Having been abroad to study and work on a few occasions, that experience of actually becoming part of the city is so powerful that just visiting one seems unfulfilling. Also, urban environments are pretty stressful at the best of times IMO, and spending a week in a city just means I never get comfortable.<p>Now, nature travel... I loved touring the western USA. The country is just designed for road trips. What little interaction you do need to have with the local culture is made tremendously easy by how standardized the service sector seems to be. Too bad flying is so damaging to the environment, I&#x27;d love to go again.
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hellofunkabout 6 years ago
I&#x27;m in agreement, and many people just throw the &quot;quantity over quality&quot; perception towards everything in life. It is as superficial a way to experience the world as it is anything else you do with your time.
clementmasabout 6 years ago
We wrote this article for our blog but here is our website if you want to check out our app: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;travelmap.net" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;travelmap.net</a>
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kstenerudabout 6 years ago
It depends on why you&#x27;re traveling. I you&#x27;re traveling to impress your peer groups, that&#x27;s fine. Nothing wrong with a little peacocking. Building your networks? OK, sure. Just want to do something to enjoy yourself? Rock on. Just be honest with yourself about what the purpose of your travel is, and make sure it actually serves you. Beyond that, anything anyone has to say about how YOU travel is nothing more than advice.
dorwiabout 6 years ago
Ha, I love these discussions about what is a &quot;good&quot; way of travelling. In the end it&#x27;s all about your personal values; if you prefer to be one with the nature you&#x27;ll be labeled as a &quot;deep traveler&quot;, if you are playing the social game you&#x27;ll be labeled as a &quot;shallow traveller&quot;, or you can do both and get a label accordingly. Long story short, the way you travel is proxy for who you are.
newsgremlinabout 6 years ago
How does the saying go, it&#x27;s about the journey not the destination? Have a destination in mind, but don&#x27;t get completely caught up focusing on getting there. Head off the beaten track whenever something catches your eye or ears.
Krasnolabout 6 years ago
Nice. This blog post delivers the message that everybody should open an account there because even the one trip you made is worth putting it on. You don&#x27;t have to be part of the traveling elite to be on travelmap.net.
runn1ngabout 6 years ago
Good recommendation for getting to know a foreign country is to marry a guy&#x2F;girl from there and move there.<p>I can guarantee you will really get to know the place and the culture very well, perhaps even too much
wwqrdabout 6 years ago
Do we really need to police how the young and affluent are talking about their gap years?
mlrtimeabout 6 years ago
Interesting opinion but if someone wants to travel this way, so be it. Reminds me of this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1314&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1314&#x2F;</a><p>Maybe someone has a more relevant one.