+1 Richard<p>Sure, he is cherry picking examples, but there are a lot of examples to choose from.<p>I used mostly Linux at home for about 15 years, then switched to a decade of MacOS. My new laptop is a Linux laptop and I think I will go back to Linux as my main driver.<p>I am really conflicted about cellphones. I was unhappy with the crap ware preloaded on my Verizon Android phones. I am happier with a Verizon iPhone, as far as not having a lot of junk preinstalled. I am reading Cal Newport’s new book Digital Minimalism that is making me realize that I need to be more focused in how I spend any screen time.<p>I really like the iWatch and if/when it becomes possible to use one independently of an iPhone (now my iWatch with a data plan needs the phone for app installation and configuration) I would like to either ditch the phone or mostly keep it turned off.<p>Still, I differ from Richards opinions in that I think that Apple and Google do have some good privacy policies in place. I feel fairly OK using a personal G Suite account and Apple has a fairly good track record for privacy.
The problem I have with Stallman is that he’s usually right, but he is remarkably horrible at coming across as someone with valid opinions. It is disingenuous to come to the table with clearly cherry-picked evidence, and calling companies and their products with stupid names is just childish. There are a lot of problems with companies, and Stallman is very good at recognizing them, but he’s just pretty bad at getting people to not consider him as somewhat crazy :/
> <i>If you carry a cell phone, it tells Big Brother where you are.</i><p>It's worth remembering that if one carries a mobile telephone, and it is not fully powered off, <i>TPC always</i> knows where you are, and the powers that be do not need to go to <i>Apple</i> for that information. A mobile telephone broadcasts to let the world know where it is, and the mobile telephony system only works in the first place if the system knows how to route incoming calls and SMS messages to a person's telephone.<p>* <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19215636" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19215636</a>
1. Apple takes privacy and data safety seriously. It invests a significant amount of engineering effort into keeping user data safe. It doesn't comply with government requests unless forced, after deploying its vast legal means to hold them back.<p>2. Other consumer electronics devices aren't built in factories that are any different or better than those of Foxconn. While it doesn't absolve Apple from taking some responsibility, RMS should have called for avoiding mobile devices altogether if he's so worried about personnel abuse.<p>3. Fortunately or not, digital platforms aren't exempt from real world rules and laws. If something is prohibited in some territory, we can't seriously expect foreign companies who do business there to ignore local laws and regulations. Would you be so lenient towards a Chinese company which operates in USA disregarding all intellectual property laws? About a Japanese media company operating in Europe that markets material that would constitute underaged pornography?<p>4. We need to respect sovereignty and local customs. If there's a lesson to be learnt from the Arab Spring uprisings and their incredibly bloody outcomes is that freedom of information requires a certain societal foundation, and can't be thought of as an absolute universal value. Even the Western world is in a disarray following the information propagation offered by online platforms; to expect a society with much weaker civil institution and foundations to face the same challenges is wrong. Therefore, when Apple is asked to block content in China by the local authorities and complies, it's not any more than respecting the rule of the land.<p>The alternative to that is that the Chinese would create their own Apple (which they of course do), and that's worse for everyone at the end. It leads to a bisected global economy in the style of the Iron Curtain. I'd much rather have Apple operating in China and constantly pushing against government regulation than see the Chinese setting up their own Apple run by government cronies which would pipe user data right into the agencies of Beijing.<p>5. That aside, some of Apple's behavior (as illustrated by Spotify lately) is downright predatory, intended to lock Apple users to inferior alternatives. I don't like that one bit. On the balance though, I support Apple's discretion with my dollars, because I feel they are selling to me rather than selling me, and because their devices are great.
The #1 reason not to use Apple is their arrogance toward their users. I don't want them to lie to me about my battery, nor make me choose their music over spotify and engage in other customer-hostile policies to make money.<p>If it were only that simple, sigh. Google is much worse. Apple at least lip sync's privacy, I suspect when it is to their advantage.<p>I believe Apple just has no clue as to how to create products any more. How much money are they sitting on and and this is the best they can do?
Found at least one error on the list. This claim:<p>> Apple's mail service silently censors the mail people send.<p>Is based on this article:<p><a href="https://www.cultofmac.com/103703/apple-may-be-invisibly-filtering-your-outgoing-mobileme-email-exclusive/103703/" rel="nofollow">https://www.cultofmac.com/103703/apple-may-be-invisibly-filt...</a><p>Where one user was unable to send one email via the MobileMe web interface because of an outgoing spam filter. The Mail app worked btw, and was not "censored".<p>From this Stallman extrapolates censorship of all users who use Apple email.<p>Give me a break.
Let’s not water down the major issues with a long list of grievances. Apple’s anticompetitive practices are hugely problematic, and it’s the one area in which Apple refuses to budge. That’s where we need to focus, starting with the App Store.
Apple doesn't really spy on users imo. Internally, the privacy team is quite powerful and forces lots of safeguards about how exactly data can be used.
It's highly admirable to see a person who's so strong on his convictions and philosophy. And the entire world is better for it even if most people think he's too radical. Some of the terms he uses (as alternative to the real names) may sound silly, but his heart is in the right place.<p>The problem that I see is (inputs welcome from others on this) there are no mass produced goods (hardware and software) that are also easy to use and secure and private that conform to his requirements (leave alone cheap or being friendly to the environment, to workers, against censorship, and many other factors). It would take quite a bit of effort (to set things up) even for technical people to live as he does.
I could not care less with Apple abiding by national laws of each country (to provide or not provide some app). Wanna do business somewhere, play by their laws, not impose your clout (which for some companies is bigger than some states, hence the "Banana Republic" notion) to have the laws of your preference enforced. (Most Americans are OK with it, because it's usually their companies doing the enforcing. But consider the opposite, you being forced to accept the terms of some other country).<p>But I dislike their enforced prudery. Unless something is considered illegal (e.g. CP), it should be up to the users to decide. At worse, implement age restrictions when shopping.
I don't think I'd be where I am today if I lived how Stallman lived. He is once again technically correct but I also think he has immense privilege others do not have.<p>It's almost like he can't change his principles either, because at this point his livelihood depends on it.
Recent examples of why not to use apple:<p>1. Their new keyboards are terrible, and are buggy.
2. Lack of headphone jack on phones.
3. Vast price increases for relatively little new features.
4. Constant upgrading of the OS which breaks half of the software you use.
You can call out a multitude of things to be mad at Apple for. The question is, what alternatives currently available would do any better on the whole, for what you need?<p>You demand a phone that has all these services and qualities to it. Or websites or apps that you like. What system have you come up with that provides a viable alternative to what exists? All these social media companies thought they could create a self-policing, open, free place for discussion. Surprise, turns out every country/government wants to put restrictions on these capabilities, in a different flavor. Or people want to be paid for things, while others want them for free.<p>Almost every one of the things on his list is a result of people, users like you and me, doing things that weren't intended to be done. And they had to come up with rules to take care of. Or are what's needed to reach this many people.<p>Not saying there aren't things on there that couldn't be changed. (and by the way, some of his examples are 10 years irrelevant)<p>But you're mad at Apple because it reaches more people, and does so while ignoring these (let's face it, minor) concerns that most people don't care -- at all -- about. Ask any of your friends to identify / name even 2 of these issues?<p>So go invent something different. See how long it is before you come under similar constraints and start having to make rules that someone, somewhere disagrees with.<p>The actors in a system are servants of the things we want (or can't resist wanting) them to do.
Most of the reasons in that list are ideological, not technical. I mean, I like listening to RMS, but prefer my choice of technology to be governed by technical reasons, not by what a company does in China or in Russia. Incidentally, given a choice between an Apple machine and a well-functioning GNU/Linux machine I would pick the latter.
I would like to see the same details about google / android and microsoft / windows from the author of this comprehensive list. And his conclusion what to use as an OS considering all.
This is only one item of a larger list. As someone whose university buys Apple products (and uses quite some services on the Stallman's list): does HN have any advice for advocating for making the switch?<p>Let's take Slack as an example: what strategies are there to convince people to make the switch to an alternative product? From the perspective of users (who may not always care about the things RMS cares about), a switch just involves a lot of time and effort.<p>Any suggestions or hints how to approach this?
I was going through RMS' site and found the daily notes section. Here[1], on the 14th March entry (Kamala Harris staffing), he links to an article from the onion. Is it intentional? Does he not know onion is a satirical publication?<p>[1] <a href="https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#14_March_2019_(Kamala_Harris_staffing)" rel="nofollow">https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#14_March...</a>
So google then? Haha well let us not forget Apple denied the FBI a backdoor and to unlock an iPhone. Hmm wonder how that would have turned out if it was any other company. Sorry but that spoke massive volumes to me. And when those FBI text leaks came out they were going to harass Tim Apple lmao. But I see a lot of errors & more personal opinions that lacks evidence but ok. But by all mean please if you have more to show please do we all need to know. This Has nothing to do with fanboy either I use both and the comparisons is night & day. Also I'm only interested in censorship in places it shouldn't be. In China that's how it is. Although we disagree that's there way of life and it's just the same as if you were to fly into there country and stay for a few days you'd obey there laws right? Or go in with your country's laws? Pointless to add that imo. So if that is a problem for you. I suggest taking it up with China the ones who call the shots not Apple. Its annoying for that to pushed on someone or something that absolutely has no power over a country. Dumb,Just sayin. I'd prefer that business not to be conducted there. But kinda to late for that when everything says made in China.<p>How bout that prism 5 privacy phone? Hope it's successful and provides the needs which we all grown accustomed to with all these apps. Over all even tho I dislike there practices and absurd prices. And just putting out there I know my way around the phone then the average because both views are different, I'd rather stick with Apple a hardware company than a software company like google 2 different agendas. And to just be flat out real & honest where can you go? Everything is doing F*ckery everyone decided to wait to damn long to say anything when I know majority of us here knew about it all way back but the sheep heard didn't budge till recently to damn late they grew to powerful and google no longer needs you to have there device or any on you to track you. Plus everyone just welcomes all there products into there home already. If they are gonna farm my data I at least expect it to be handled like it's gold. And they could offer a paid version that we can choose to use that will keep our data off limits since we are paying for it. They still get there money. I personally think if we are paying outta pocket our data is off limits. The isp sells our data so why do we still pay for cable? Sometimes I think a solar flare would be nice and reset everything but I doubt people will learn.
Surprised Spotify's antitrust claims are not mentioned there<p>Edit: All right so this website is meant to make a library of opposition against big corporations. I understand now
I think Apple takes privacy more seriously than anyone. They don't need to spy on people to make money, unlike many tech companies.<p>Content control is different from political censorship. Every company has the right to policy their content and choose their customers. It sucks, but it isn't evil.<p>Those are pretty old arguments, because Apple does allow Bitcoin related apps now, and has been for many years.
The last update to Telegram on iOS was two weeks ago. Is the rest of it worth reading if point #1 is wrong?<p>edit: This last page update was 2018 according to the copyright. The OP didn't put (2018) in the title.
Wow - regardless of whether one agrees with RMS, alone the fact that this submission has been heavily flagged already (and will thus drop from the frontpage soon) tells you a lot about the power of Apple and their fans here.<p>HN urgently needs to address the flagging problems, this has been the case for many important but controversial topics recently and leads to a degraded quality of frontpage submissions in my view.
I consider it responsible Capitalism to not buy products from Apple, AT&T, BP, etc...<p>Apple has not been pro consumer or pro developer in my lifetime. They do advertise a lot.
> Apple practices tax avoidance using loopholes and lobbying.<p>He’s cherry picking things here that really don’t have anything to do specifically with Apple. Amazon paid zero taxes last year and they had more income than nearly any company in the world. Google is also quite famous for the loopholes it finds. I’m not sure it’s fair to single out Apple specifically for this.
I disagree with the bullets about banning/censoring apps.<p>There are ways to install and run software on iOS without using the AppStore. If developers share source code, people are free to compile and install it using Xcode. It’s also possible to run Python programs using Pythonista. Finally, programs can be run as JavaScript in Safari.<p>Apple definitely controls the AppStore. That makes it less convenient to install programs than on GNU/Linux, but the freedom is still there. And maybe the added steps mean the people who choose to run code via Xcode, Pythonista, or JavaScript are more likely to understand the risks of running that code.<p>Edit: Posted incomplete comment on the first try. Also wanted to add that I look up to Stallman as a role model and advocate for open source & contributing back to open source.
This list sounds like it was written by someone who wants to use Apple but needs some justifications not to. I only ever needed one reason to not use Apple products unless I was forced to: They're mostly not good products. The parts that are good are completely obstructed by the bad parts.<p>For instance, macOS is a stable, supported Unix on slick hardware. That's great! But only at the cost of all the core desktop functionality being complete fucking garbage. The global menu is colossally stupid and it sucks, the Window management sucks, the Finder sucks and the Dock sucks. Everybody knows this except for the people who have made their computing hardware and software choices part of their identity.<p>That last one was also infamous internally for sucking at the time it came out except in one respect: It marketed well. Oh and that slick hardware that you're being forced to buy is probably outdated before it left the store. Also, you were probably steered directly to the most expensive version of that hardware due to the skimpy lineup that you have to choose from and the lack of upgrade-ability.<p>Same thing with iOS - you get some great stuff like long battery life and stability, but only at the cost of this little thing we call "freedom" to do what the fuck I want without having to ask my Apple parent.<p>Seriously - Fuck Apple. They've always been a smug bunch of assholes. If you have to use their products (since they have just enough market share to be annoying) - just buy it used from a non-Apple source. Don't give these assholes your money.