Appl Still Hasn’t Fixd Its MacBook Kyboad Problm

Apple has lost that magic it had. It&#x27;s no longer a special company where people used to wait for hours at a time to buy a phone. Apple isn&#x27;t that company anymore, where someone with good taste used to make your choices for you, and they somehow knew what you couldn&#x27;t quite articulate.<p>There was an iPhone, an iPad, a MacBook Air, and a MacBook Pro. If you wanted the experience of an Apple phone, you bought an iPhone. You didn&#x27;t go around asking if you should buy an Xr, Xs, or X, 9, 7, or iPhone googol. You went to the store and bought an iPhone. The product categories were clear. The vision behind them was clearer. Everything just made sense. And it worked too!<p>Apple doesn&#x27;t make sense anymore.<p>I have a top of the line MacBook Pro 2016 that I can&#x27;t type on. I am the professional these machines are meant to target. My use case isn&#x27;t &quot;hardcore&quot; or &quot;niche.&quot; It&#x27;s that of most entrepreneurs, programmers, and designers. I wanted a machine that I could carry around in my backpack with good-enough battery life that could let me work from a coffee shop. Nothing fancy. Nothing complicated. Just a machine that a woman can use at a coffee shop with her soy latte.<p>What I got for my thousands of dollars is a machine that can&#x27;t be used without its cradle. The keyboard has stopped working correctly despite weekly cleaning. I am worried that the screen will stop working too. And I don&#x27;t have the time to take my machine back to the store and get it replaced because I&#x27;m so busy that I can&#x27;t live without my computer.<p>Apple was supposed to be the company that made computers for people who do stuff. Now, it&#x27;s a dividend machine that happens to make crappy computers.

Not a lot of people know this because most people will try to get the problem fixed, but the problem will actually fix itself after enough time and use. The problem with the keyboard design is actually two fold: particulate AND keys slightly out of tolerances. You will notice that the problem almost always gets worse when the computer gets warm. E, C, X, R and a lot of keys on the left side of the keyboard seem to be the most troublesome when it gets warm. The keys expand and start to actually &quot;click&quot; different. The sound is audibly different. It actually drove me crazy when I first got it. It took almost a year for all the keys to have the same tone, and the S key is still ever so slightly softer than the rest.<p>I have a 2016 MBP and after about 3-6 months I started getting stuck and repeating keys. I was going to take it to the Apple Store to get replaced, but just sort of struggled through it for another 3 months or so as I missed appointment after appointment because I was busy. The problem is now entirely gone and all the keys click the same. I actually had this same thing happen with another 2016 MBP. With enough use, the keys break in and no longer stick.<p>This is, obviously, a ridiculous solution—if you can even call it that. But an aged keyboard is actually more reliable than a new one.<p>The fix for this wasn&#x27;t just adding in a layer to keep the dust out, but getting tighter tolerances on the butterfly mechanism itself and designed around the expansion issue or using different&#x2F;better materials.

I honestly don&#x27;t think they will ever fix it. Why should they? People keep buying the product!<p>At this point, I&#x27;m on a 2012 MBPr and I keep on deferring to the next year and waiting to see if it&#x27;s resolved. They are pushing me ever year to say F-it and build a hackintosh.<p>I&#x27;m holding out some hope for the new rumoured 16&quot; to come back to the original 2012-2015 design, but I know Apple is belligerent and will release an even thinner design!<p>My dream spec would be:<p>- the 2012-2015 chassis<p>- improved 4k oled screen and bezel less design<p>- arm processor which will do away with throttling and fans<p>- no touchbar<p>- 2012-2015 keyboard<p>- 2012-2015 touchpad not the massive one in newer models<p>- magsafe<p>I can wait a couple of years, but in 2021... Apple won&#x27;t get my money anymore.

Been a Mac user since the very early fat Macs. Love Macs. Will miss iTerm. Can’t stand the new keyboards, let alone their reliability issues, my fingers feel like they are typing directly on a desk&#x2F;concrete. Fingers hurt.<p>Went to Dell XPS 13. Awesome Machines. Run Linux great. Got given a Thinkpad T407 and fell absolutely in love with the keyboard. It may not be perfect, but comparing side by side with the MBP 2017 one, it’s so much better that I can’t believe I put up with the MBP one.

Apple keyboard related tale, though not an Apple butterfly keyboard:<p>I had to call Apple support yesterday to register an AppleCare Protection Plan agreement. The way this works is you first get routed to someone who takes some notes about your case, then that person sends you to the correct specialist.<p>Anyway, after waiting on hold a short while (Apple lets you choose your genre of on-hold music or wait in silence... though normally they call you but for some reason they kept getting my voice mail so I had to call them), the woman who picked up starting asking me for information.<p>Thwack, thwack, thwack I hear as she’s typing, like fire crackers going off. Eventually I couldn’t take it anymore so I said: “that is not an Apple Keyboard you’re typing on!”<p>“Nope,” she said. “I spilled water on my Apple keyboard earlier today and it stopped working, so I pulled out this old PC keyboard I had. But I hate it. I texted my husband and asked him to go buy me a new Apple keyboard.” (It seemed like she was working from home.)<p>So I told her some people really prefer those mechanical switch keyboards, that they probably wouldn’t stop working from a bit of water, but maybe her Apple keyboard would start working again when it dried out. “I hope so,” she said, “Because I really prefer it for typing and my husband balked at the $100 cost of a new Apple keyboard.” (Obviously she meant an external Magic keyboard and not a MacBook PoS keyboard.)<p>(Aside: I’d consider it a public service if the WSJ would make this article available for free. I love the toggle switches! I was unable to make an outline.com link but I could read it by following the link from a Google search in an incognito window.)

Here&#x27;s the article in plain text in six parts:<p>1) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952654757347330" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952654757347330</a><p>2) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952697426034688" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952697426034688</a><p>3) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952738685440000" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952738685440000</a><p>4) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952781270126594" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952781270126594</a><p>5) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952834856570881" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952834856570881</a><p>6) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952873934970880" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;bookofjoe&#x2F;status&#x2F;1110952873934970880</a>

As one of the early engineers of the company, I have a 2015 Macbook Pro. New engineers with their new touch bar Macbook Pro are jealous. Other than some minor battery degradation it hasn&#x27;t failed me. I&#x27;m holding on to this as long as possible.

I have a 2016 MBpro. I only use it with an external keyboard, except on week-ends (and I do not type much on these).<p>Then the N key started repeating.<p>Unbelievable. I cannot imagine the pain of a frequent typer on the keyboard.

Ummm<p>&gt; NoScript detected a potential Cross-Site Scripting attack<p>&gt; from <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com</a> to <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stags.bluekai.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stags.bluekai.com</a>.<p>&gt; Suspicious data:<p><pre><code> (URL) https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stags.bluekai.com&#x2F;site&#x2F;4454?ret=html&amp;phint=serverDomain=www.wsj.com&amp;phint=primaryProduct=Online Journal&amp;phint=pageName=WSJ_Multimedia_Collection_Appl Still Hasn’t Fixd Its MacBook Kyboad Problm&amp;phint=section=WSJ_Collection&amp;phint=contentChannel=WSJ_Collection&amp;phint=articleType=WSJ_Multimedia_Graphics&amp;phint=contentType=Multimedia&amp;phint=isSub=WSJ_free&amp;phint=edition=North_America_USA&amp;phint=__bk_t=Appl Still Hasn’t Fixd Its MacBook Kyboad Problm&amp;phint=__bk_k=Apple keyboard,Apple butterfly keyboard,MacBook keyboard,MacBook Air keyboard,MacBook Pro,MacBook Air,AppleCare,Apple keyboard problem,Joanna Stern&amp;phint=__bk_pr=https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;&amp;phint=__bk_l=https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com&#x2F;graphics&#x2F;apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem&#x2F;&amp;limit=10&amp;bknms=ver=2.0,ua=0dd7c7d553f2517fa22a86fdfb24611b,t=1553703693224,m=4b4e4ecaab1f1c93ab1f1c93ab1f1c93,k=1,lang=07ef608d8a7e9677f0b83775f0b83775,sr=1920x971x24,tzo=420,hss=false,hls=false,idb=true,addb=undefined,odb=undefined,cpu=4b4e4ecaab1f1c93ab1f1c93ab1f1c93,platform=1c17637dbf2f8edebf2f8edebf2f8ede,notrack=,plugins=4b4e4ecaab1f1c93ab1f1c93ab1f1c93,cn=38593d014c984362435c7473ff6387ce&amp;r=16711535</code></pre>

Wow, in the WSJ. That&#x27;ll get some attention from Apple management

Thank You Apple. Finally you have the courage to admit it. ( Although in both cases they were under the pressure of media and press )<p>Unfortunately the extended warranty programme [1] still does not include MacBook 2018. Now they have acknowledge it, at least there is hope this will change. I could never understand why Apple don&#x27;t have some internal guidelines on it, even if it was out of warranty they could have fix it for free as Standard Procedure, without actually admitting it was a problem. Instead they try to charge people outrageous repair price on it.<p>Keyboard, TB3 Charging, Internal Display Connector, Trackpad False positives, and numbers other small things I can&#x27;t remember. I am hoping 2019 Apple will have a MacBook Pro redesign that fixes all of these issues.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apple.com&#x2F;support&#x2F;keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apple.com&#x2F;support&#x2F;keyboard-service-program-for-m...</a>

Apple needs to simply put all their products and features through &quot;what would Steve Jobs have done&quot; filter. He would have probably thrown the butterfly design out the window and ask them to come up with a better design.

I always felt laptop keyboards&#x2F;key caps were ALWAYS flimsy feeling. I guess just the older ones you could pull off and replace. But I never was a huge fan of the earlier chiclets either.

I&#x27;m surprised people are still buying these models with all the issues with keyboards, GPU glitches, T2 chip, etc.<p>The repair program doesn&#x27;t really solve anything. I&#x27;m willing to bet most MBP owners do not have a second Mac to keep working while it is being repaired.<p>Also, at least in Mexico, Apple is being super strict about which machines go into the repair program. I know a couple of people with keyboard problems that were told there was no problem with the keyboard.

Love the new keyboards. Not been a problem for me. Love the size too. The 15in is about as heavy as the old 13in, making it very portable. Had to sacrifice some keyboard depth for that but so worth it.<p>For anyone working for extended periods of time, you will benefit greatly from having an external keyboard. Preferably one that tilts up in the middle. Why anyone would want a bigger laptop that they use at home to type on the laptop&#x27;s native keyboard is beyond me.

I really hate the keyboard on most laptops. XPS&#x27;s I don&#x27;t like and new macbooks seem the worst. Anyone recommend any? Thinkpads seem good, and many HPs.

Current gen MacBook pros can’t fit latest intel processors into that thin body. Other vendors already leave mbps in the dust performance wise. That fact makes me hopeful that apple will have to go thicker for the next mbp generation and that will maybe warrant a better keyboard.<p>This form-over-usability-and-function madness has to end.

louis Rossman did an episode on the macbook keyboard problems:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4KuVvb9DTaU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4KuVvb9DTaU</a><p>It&#x27;s insane what a mac user must go through even to attempt to repair this themselves. Another reason it&#x27;s important to support right to repair, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;repair.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;repair.org&#x2F;</a>.<p>There&#x27;s also a lawsuit for the keyboard defects:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.classlawgroup.com&#x2F;apple-macbook-pro-keyboard-defect-lawsuit&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.classlawgroup.com&#x2F;apple-macbook-pro-keyboard-def...</a>

Extending the warranty of the MacBook&#x27;s with the keyboards that have issues isn&#x27;t enough. They should be under warranty indefinitely or made affordable to replace, even if it&#x27;s at a loss for AAPL.

As long as people keep buying their laptops (what proportion of HN users are on Macs? Probably &gt;80%?) why should they resolve the problems with it.<p>Personally, I&#x27;m in love with my new XPS 13 and wouldn&#x27;t touch a Macbook Pro.

I would by a laptop with a mechanical keyboard even if it makes it much thicker.

They should have done one paragraph without the Es and Rs to make the point and then had it read as normal. I bet a lot of would be readers aren&#x27;t bothering with this otherwise good article because of it.

I was planning to buy Macbook 2018 next week now after seeing all this complaints, i think I should wait for the 2019 model. Anyone with an idea when the next release would be?

MacBook updates of 2016 and onwards are an example of “don’t fix it if ain’t broken”. There isn’t much choice on the market though. MacOS is something special still.

Surely the need for Apple to noticeably grow profits is going to lead to ever more situations like this?<p>More flimsy products combined with more glamorous marketing to distract.

Sad the article is behind a paywall. This is a topic I care about.<p>The penultimate generation MacBook Air keyboard is still my favourite typing device, and it’s what I use today.<p>I would pay Apple double the price of their current MacBook for the same thing but with the old keyboard, and the MagSafe connector.

Does anyone have a similar issue with 1 of the Logitech keyboards? The &quot;{&quot; key keeps falling off, and it has happened with multiple keyboards.

I&#x27;m planning to buy a MacBook Air. Is this butterfly keyboard affects only Macbook Pro? Is it the same with MacBook Air?

I know she is trying to make a point, but I don&#x27;t think she should have mispelt almost every word.

Wow, Joanna really carried that bit till the very last word. I love it.

my MacBook&#x27;s shit key doesn&#x27;t work occasionally. I&#x27;m still thinking to bring it to fix or not.

You don&#x27;t need an E. This is why we have autocorrection in macOS :p

Nice title, sad paywall