TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Announcing AMP Real URL

190 pointsby chdanielabout 6 years ago

20 comments

AlexandrBabout 6 years ago
This is a &quot;solution&quot; to a &quot;problem&quot; that AMP itself created. And in the process it creates additional complexity[1] and a new potential revenue stream[2] for middlemen providing a service that shouldn&#x27;t be necessary in the first place.<p>Astounding.<p>And oh yeah:<p>&gt; AMP Real URL is only supported in the Chrome browser at this time, but we are optimistic it will be supported more widely as its benefit to Internet users becomes clear.<p>Who needs web standards, right? [3]<p>[1] Especially egregious because it&#x27;s making SSL identity validation even more complex than it was before. I&#x27;m sure this will make getting security &quot;right&quot; even harder.<p>[2] Or in this case a new barrier to competition:<p>&gt; After speaking with publishers and with Internet users, we have decided not to charge for AMP Real URL. This is not because our customers haven’t been excited or willing to pay for it, AMP makes up a huge component of many site’s traffic. Our motivation is the same as for offering CDN or SSL services to millions of customers free of charge, we are here to help build a better Internet and improving AMP is a huge step in that direction.<p>Edit: [3] dfabulich (below) has correctly pointed out that this is in the process of being standardized: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;html&#x2F;draft-yasskin-http-origin-signed-responses-05" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;html&#x2F;draft-yasskin-http-origin-signed...</a><p>Despite this, Firefox has currently marked this proposal as &quot;harmful&quot; (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mozilla.github.io&#x2F;standards-positions&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mozilla.github.io&#x2F;standards-positions&#x2F;</a>). It seems to me as though Google may be ramming this one through despite objections.
评论 #19679117 未加载
评论 #19679032 未加载
评论 #19679360 未加载
评论 #19683108 未加载
评论 #19679719 未加载
ocdtrekkieabout 6 years ago
It&#x27;s really unfortunate to see awful claims like &quot;we are here to help build a better Internet and improving AMP is a huge step in that direction&quot; that are blatantly dishonest and harmful to the Internet being promoted by Cloudflare in this blog post. AMP is a horrible cancer the Internet is plagued with, and we keep being told it&#x27;s great even though <i>literally nobody wants it</i>.<p>Claims like &quot;Many of the sites we have spoken to get as much as 50% of their web traffic through AMP&quot; ignore the fact that this is only true because it&#x27;s been forced down our throats without our consent.<p>Anyone implementing an AMP-based technology which doesn&#x27;t come with a way for users to decline to participate is actively harming the open web. I like Cloudflare and a lot of what it does, but I&#x27;m really disappointed in them today.
评论 #19679187 未加载
评论 #19680444 未加载
评论 #19679460 未加载
评论 #19682470 未加载
maxymeabout 6 years ago
Mozilla&#x27;s Position: &quot;Mozilla has concerns about the shift in the web security model required for handling web-packaged information. Specifically, the ability for an origin to act on behalf of another without a client ever contacting the authoritative server is worrisome, as is the removal of a guarantee of confidentiality from the web security model (the host serving the web package has access to plain text). We recognise that the use cases satisfied by web packaging are useful, and would be likely to support an approach that enabled such use cases so long as the foregoing concerns could be addressed.&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mozilla.github.io&#x2F;standards-positions&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mozilla.github.io&#x2F;standards-positions&#x2F;</a>
评论 #19679172 未加载
评论 #19683127 未加载
pupppetabout 6 years ago
Thumbs down to anyone enabling AMP’s success. Google should be measuring page speed only, it’s none of their business what methods you used to achieve that speed.
评论 #19679183 未加载
评论 #19679018 未加载
评论 #19679217 未加载
评论 #19679620 未加载
sudhirjabout 6 years ago
Despite all the hate against AMP, this will actually improve the state of a decentralised web. Disconnecting the web packaging feature from the application that birthed it, the format allows a website to sign its content and create an immutable package that any server in the world can distribute - with the signature allowing clients to trust where it came from and show the origin address instead of the cache.<p>Isn&#x27;t this exactly what the distributed web needs? This is a massive boon to IPFS (a content hash can still show the proper origin name), a big blow to censorship (a censored website could spread its content to a thousand different servers, each served over HTTPS, and viewers would still the original URL whichever cache they access), consensual permanent archiving, and much more?
评论 #19679570 未加载
wtmtabout 6 years ago
&gt; If your site has AMP Real URL enabled Cloudflare will digitally sign the content we provide to that crawler, cryptographically proving it was generated by you. That signature is all <i>a modern browser (currently just Chrome on Android)</i> needs to show the correct URL in the address bar when a visitor arrives to your AMP content from Google’s search results.<p>Is the dig (emphasized above) about what constitutes “a modern browser” really necessary? Is a modern browser now whichever one that supports something you like?
judge2020about 6 years ago
Based on the discussion from the Cloudflare announcement and here, I don&#x27;t think people understand why Amp was created and is being heavily pushed by Google: global accessibility.<p>Many countries, including India, are just now getting widespread broadband rollout. Due to its infancy, many ISPs have data caps and may even be delivering data over 4G&#x2F;LTE to homes. With AMP, Google and CF have the privilege of driving all of this (search-driven) bandwidth to datacenters within the same country, or at least the same continent, to the visitor. If all of this content was really served from the origin, latency would be considerably worse since the data will have to go through the undersea cables and the performance issues that may occur with bad routing.<p>You could also say the Data Saver web proxy they run is to encourage these users to browse the web without worrying as much about their phone data bill.<p>Google really wants everyone in these countries to be using and depending on the Internet just as much as Americans use and depend on it, otherwise they may miss out on advertising $$$ potential from a country that&#x27;s ~4.5 times more populated than the United States.
评论 #19679684 未加载
评论 #19683918 未加载
评论 #19679679 未加载
评论 #19683614 未加载
评论 #19680966 未加载
anfiltabout 6 years ago
Sigh that last thing we need is more AMP.
评论 #19678867 未加载
评论 #19678871 未加载
zackbloomabout 6 years ago
I work on AMP Real URL at Cloudflare and am happy answer any questions (live from AMPConf in Tokyo)!<p>If you&#x27;re looking for a super in-depth technical post which includes all sorts of wonderful bits about the engineering and cryptography involved don&#x27;t miss <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.cloudflare.com&#x2F;real-urls-for-amp-cached-content-using-cloudflare-workers&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.cloudflare.com&#x2F;real-urls-for-amp-cached-content...</a><p>AMP Real URL was built by engineers Avery Harnish (started when Avery was an intern!) and Gabbi Fisher, and is built on top of our Workers [1] tech.<p>1- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cloudflare.com&#x2F;products&#x2F;cloudflare-workers&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cloudflare.com&#x2F;products&#x2F;cloudflare-workers&#x2F;</a>
评论 #19679726 未加载
评论 #19678931 未加载
评论 #19679147 未加载
评论 #19679163 未加载
评论 #19678920 未加载
评论 #19682858 未加载
评论 #19679048 未加载
motyarabout 6 years ago
In related news:<p>Google signed exchanges, Instant-loading AMP pages from your own domain<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;webmasters.googleblog.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;04&#x2F;instant-loading-amp-pages-from-your-own.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;webmasters.googleblog.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;04&#x2F;instant-loading-am...</a>
rob-olmosabout 6 years ago
Found this more lively page, apologies if cross-posting a comment is not allowed:<p>Semi-related, I think Web Packages and Signed Exchanges could have some usefulness outside of Google&#x27;s caches. One of their spec examples was for verifiable web page archives. Another idea it could be used for a wifi &quot;drop box&quot; (drop station?) when there&#x27;s no internet connection around. That isn&#x27;t uncommon at some popular spots up river into the woods in the US.<p>The idea is that as people enter the area, they can update the drop station automatically for things like news or public posts with whatever they&#x27;ve cached recently.<p>I&#x27;m pretty sure I read about this idea before the spec was drafted but I couldn&#x27;t find or remember the site, something like vehicle-transported data.
r1chabout 6 years ago
I&#x27;m rather worried about how closely Cloudflare is working with Google in pushing their proprietary stuff. I would have hoped they would be more neutral and take a similar position as Mozilla.
m-p-3about 6 years ago
I&#x27;ll just keep using the Redirect AMP to HTML addon[1]. AMP links annoys me to no end.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;addons.mozilla.org&#x2F;firefox&#x2F;addon&#x2F;amp2html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;addons.mozilla.org&#x2F;firefox&#x2F;addon&#x2F;amp2html</a>
vorticoabout 6 years ago
Who uses AMP? I&#x27;ve only ever heard of it on Hacker News but never seen it when using Google or any news websites. What actions does a normal user have to take to use AMP?
评论 #19682197 未加载
评论 #19682204 未加载
christianmmabout 6 years ago
&gt; <i>Importantly your site is still being served from Google’s AMP cache just as before; all of this comes without any cost to your SEO or web performance.</i><p>Glad to see they&#x27;ve addressed AMP&#x27;s main leverage point
bjokoabout 6 years ago
I wonder if this will have any impact on AMP for Email as well.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;emailinnovations.com&#x2F;the-email-is-being-amp-ed&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;emailinnovations.com&#x2F;the-email-is-being-amp-ed&#x2F;</a>
tambourine_manabout 6 years ago
Will the usability still suck? Can I tap the menu bar to go to the top?
cphooverabout 6 years ago
Glad cloudflare and Google are now ramming through de facto web standards without consensus from the rest of web and browser developers...
verisimilitudesabout 6 years ago
&gt;The promise of the AMP (Accelerated Mobile Pages) project was that it would make the web, and, in particular, the mobile web, much more pleasant to surf.<p>That&#x27;s, ostensibly, the goal, but anyone with an independent mind can tell it&#x27;s just about control.<p>&gt;It was particularly aimed at publishers (such as news organizations) that wanted to provide the best, fastest web experience for readers catching up on news stories and in depth articles while on the move. It later became valuable for any site which values their mobile performance including e-commerce stores, job boards, and media sites.<p>What a harrowing paragraph.<p>&gt;As well as the AMP HTML framework, AMP also made use of caches that store copies of AMP content close to end users so that they load as quickly as possible. Although this cache make loading web pages much, much faster they introduce a problem: An AMP page served from Google’s cache has a URL starting with <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;google.com&#x2F;amp&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;google.com&#x2F;amp&#x2F;</a>. This can be incredibly confusing for end users.<p>This wasn&#x27;t an issue before TLS everywhere was pushed, was it? The same organization that pushed for encryption, no matter how useless, Google, is now there to solve the problem of caching encrypted pages, centrally of course.<p>&gt;But the problems with the AMP cache approach are deeper than just some confusion on the part of the user. By serving the page from Google’s cache there’s no way for the reader to check the authenticity of the page; when it’s served directly from, say, the BBC the user has the assurance of the domain name, a green lock indicating that the SSL certificate is valid and can even click on the lock to get details of the certificate.<p>There&#x27;s already no foolproof way to do that. Rather than checking that it&#x27;s actually BBC and BBC has verified what it&#x27;s delivering, you instead ask a third party if this is the BBC and if what it&#x27;s sending is true.<p>&gt;That signature is all a modern browser (currently just Chrome on Android) needs to show the correct URL in the address bar when a visitor arrives to your AMP content from Google’s search results.<p>So, just as with &#x27;&#x27;DNS over HTTPS&#x27;&#x27; and other nonsense, this is yet another thing they want to pile on.<p>&gt;Importantly your site is still being served from Google’s AMP cache just as before; all of this comes without any cost to your SEO or web performance.<p>Only fools and cretins care about SEO and &#x27;&#x27;web performance&#x27;&#x27; is solved by not having so much JavaScript and actually bothering to optimize images you send.<p>&gt;Brand Protection: Web users have been trained that the URL in the address bar has significance. Having google.com at the top of a page of content hurts the publisher’s ability to maintain a unique presence on the Internet.<p>Not violating people already trained is very important.<p>&gt;Easier Analytics: AMP Real URL greatly simplifies web analytics for its users by allowing all visitors, AMP or otherwise, to coexist on the same tracking domain.<p>Anyone using anything more than HTTP server logs, which are already too revealing, is likely a fool.<p>&gt;Increased Screen Space: Historically when AMP was used room would be taken for a “grey bar” at the top of your site to show the real URL. With AMP Real URL that’s simply not necessary.<p>This sentence is only possible due to a dearth of independent implementations, which communicates a great deal about this nonsense. Also, it&#x27;s nice to see Google beginning to kill URLs as it wanted to; lying in the UI is a good first step.<p>&gt;Content Signing: By relying on cryptographic techniques, AMP Real URL ensures that the content delivered to visitors has not been manipulated protecting the sites and brands it is used on. It’s now not possible for any external party to add, remove, or modify the content of a site.<p>Remember when Cloudflare was spewing private information all over the Internet?<p>&gt;We are also taking this opportunity to sunset the other AMP products and experiments we have built over the years like Ampersand and Firebolt. Those products were innovative but we have learned that publishers value AMP products which pair well with Google’s search results, not which live outside it. Users of those older products were informed several weeks ago that they will be gradually shut down to focus our attention on AMP Real URL.<p>Don&#x27;t worry about this being shut down for the next big thing, though.<p>&gt;Our motivation is the same as for offering CDN or SSL services to millions of customers free of charge<p>You mean subverting the Internet through increasing centralization and also enabling mass-spying by the perversion of the very encryption that&#x27;s ostensibly so important?<p>Does anyone actually think Cloudflare isn&#x27;t a US government operation? They have so much hardware and they get so much support from these other companies that we know are paid off by the government.
paavoovaabout 6 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand why AMP is targeted at the &quot;mobile web&quot;. What exactly makes browsing the web on mobile different than other platforms?
评论 #19679410 未加载