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Career advice I wish I’d been given when I was young

423 pointsby robertwiblinabout 6 years ago

32 comments

algoriasabout 6 years ago
Some people seem to be missing the context in which this article was written: 80000 hours is about effective altruism, in the sense of deliberately building a career that does the most good in the world (whether that be charitable work, politics, or &quot;earning to give&quot; as a software engineer &#x2F; banker &#x2F; etc). The article itself doesn&#x27;t explicitly state this unfortunately.<p>So yeah, the advice is very nuts and bolts, and several of the points don&#x27;t make any sense without that context (e.g. picking the low-hanging fruits). It&#x27;s assumed that the reader is already highly motivated to have an impactful altruistic career, and that this motivation is a primary source of self-fulfillment.<p>Just pointing this out because there seems to be a bit of confusion in the comments here.
jacheeabout 6 years ago
&gt; Be a pleasant person.<p>This is the cheat-code for getting everything you&#x27;ll ever need and most of what you want out of life. Frankly, I would have made it number one.
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GCA10about 6 years ago
I like this list a lot more than Sam Altman&#x27;s How to be Successful.<p>Sam does have some excellent pointers about everything from compounding your impact to having an exploring mindset. But his list feels as if it&#x27;s written mostly from the perspective of a racehorse breeder who wants to win the next Kentucky Derby with one of his beasts. (Doesn&#x27;t really matter which one. Also doesn&#x27;t hugely matter if some of the others collapse during the quest.)<p>The 80,000-hour author is much more in step with advice that can help people at almost every decile of achievement.
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Impossibleabout 6 years ago
&gt; Crowdsource your career decisions. I’ve done this for most of the last few decades, polling people I trust, and the advice seems generally good in hindsight.<p>I&#x27;ve been trying this recently and I can&#x27;t get really good advice. Is the issue that I haven&#x27;t built up a useful enough network? The advice tends to be in 1 of 3 categories<p>1) You&#x27;re smart, you should just start your own thing and make (b&#x2F;m)illions.<p>2) Come work with us, we have a role that kind of fits your skillset and pays you less.<p>3) You already make a lot of money and&#x2F;or are successful in your career just chill\coast and collect a paycheck.
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faitswulffabout 6 years ago
&gt; Back in my 30s, [about half] of the things on my resumé [...] didn’t pay me any money. Those projects sounded fancy and helped me to get good full-time jobs later on.<p>The rest seemed reasonable, but this is not actually doable for a lot of people who need a regular source of income to live.
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qnttyabout 6 years ago
Does anyone else find things like this from sites like 80000 hours really alienating? Do people really think like this? I don&#x27;t know anyone who takes their career so seriously.
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jedbergabout 6 years ago
&gt; Avoid spending time to earn or save money.<p>This could be dangerous advice. Sure, if you value your time at $20&#x2F;hr, maybe saving a few bucks now doesn&#x27;t make sense. But no one is paying you $20&#x2F;hr for the time your spending doing that. Unless your other option is to work more at an hourly job instead of bargain hunting, that time is worth $0&#x2F;hr (plus whatever you value your sanity at).<p>But more importantly, when you save it gives you the change to purchase greater opportunity in the future, which make have a greater than $20&#x2F;hr value down the road.
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tony_cannistraabout 6 years ago
&gt; &quot;Find easy ways you can come across better.&quot;<p>Listen, I know that we live in a world in which <i>many</i> things other than objective merit matter when it comes to success&#x2F;relationships&#x2F;upward mobility. I realize there&#x27;s psychology involved, perhaps even evolutionary psychology (i.e., hard to change).<p>But I hate this advice. It reeks of elitism, with a nose high in the air.<p>&quot;Want success? Look good and smile.&quot;<p>What about: &quot;Find easy ways to be open and accepting of what others have to say, despite your instinct not to listen.&quot;<p>Might be overthinking this one, but this line of thinking is frustrating.
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therobot24about 6 years ago
don&#x27;t care for this list, primarily because it&#x27;s focus is that a job is a stepping stone to something else, never a career (guess the field is the career here):<p>&gt; Don’t focus too much on long-term plans. Focus on interesting projects and you’ll build a resumé that stands out...<p>&gt; Be a pleasant person. People want colleagues who seem pleasant and happy and good humoured. Washington DC especially operates more on social capital than on merit..<p>&gt; Avoid stuff that could cause irreversible reputational harm...<p>&gt; Work to solve problems that aren’t popular. Popularity of a problem is evidence that it is hard to solve, competition is high, and your individual contribution is likely to be small. In contrast, neglected problems often have low-hanging solutions that no one has bothered to look for...<p>&gt; Some jobs in government may be easier to get than you imagine. ...Rather than consider a life in government, I suggest trying a 3 to 5 year stint, and see what you’re able to contribute.<p>Why do i see this as a problem? Individually, this is all good advice for the new engineer. But collectively, building your career in a field by <i>using</i> a Gov job or some other employ simply as a stepping stone is incredibly disingenuous. The whole thing stinks of any lack of self-reflection - here jobs are just what you do to gain a better hold of where you can exist in the field. It&#x27;s very similar to chasing fame in LA, but this time it&#x27;s DC.
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slgabout 6 years ago
The Google Alerts thing is one of the more unique suggestions and one I haven&#x27;t heard before. What kind of Google Alert would both be relevant to your career and be rare enough that it only triggers a result roughly once every 15 years (assuming the numbers from the post are accurate)?
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kenabout 6 years ago
&gt; Avoid stuff that could have irreversible reputational harm or slow down a security clearance.<p>This sounds a little strange to me, coming from &quot;Anonymous&quot;. Do they think there is advice here which could cause them irreversible career damage?<p>I suppose it could also simply be the desire to not have half the internet jump down your throat for a typo, as often happens these days.
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mnm1about 6 years ago
&gt; Avoid spending time to earn or save money. I now see time as my most valuable resource, and I’m willing to spend money to save time. I pay for ridesharing so that I can work during transit, I frequently buy meals so that I can save time spent cooking, I pay higher rent to have a shorter commute, and I don’t spend time searching for bargains.<p>This is stupid. If you&#x27;re an engineer in the Bay area making good but not FAANG money, this can easily lead you to save absolutely nothing and have nothing to show for years of your life. If you live elsewhere, it&#x27;s a bit easier, but eating out all the time and spending money when you could do the work yourself, including looking for bargains is going to limit the amount of savings you have significantly.<p>Let&#x27;s face it, time is NOT money. That&#x27;s fucking absurd. No one works around the clock. It&#x27;s impossible. Even the people that pretend to are not actually efficient or effective. They&#x27;re just wasting most of that time. Especially in something like software engineering. Time is not fucking money. That&#x27;s just a dumb saying. The only time this advice might apply is if you&#x27;re making millions easily and you don&#x27;t need to budget. Time is still not money and it won&#x27;t make your pretend work worth anything, but at that point you can afford it. For 99.999% of people, this is just terrible advice. I say this from experience having spent years working in the bay area as a software engineer and then leaving in debt. And that was years ago when rent&#x2F;prices weren&#x27;t so high. Stupid advice.
Wumpabout 6 years ago
A bit of meta-advice: don’t take advice from people that don’t have any context on you, don’t align with your values and priorities, or may have misaligned incentives.
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jingw222about 6 years ago
<i>Find the biographies of people whose job you’d like to have, and figure out how they got there. You can effectively reverse engineer their career path.</i><p>I highly doubt that one.
d_burfootabout 6 years ago
&gt;&gt; 16. Some jobs in government may be easier to get than you imagine.<p>I will add to this my observation from reading Michael Lewis&#x27; book The Fifth Risk: if you can tolerate the bureaucracy, it&#x27;s often possible to get to work on hugely impactful and highly-resourced projects early in your career by going into government.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Fifth-Risk-Michael-Lewis&#x2F;dp&#x2F;1324002646" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Fifth-Risk-Michael-Lewis&#x2F;dp&#x2F;132400264...</a>
kreekabout 6 years ago
&gt; I still read a lot about technology, but at the margin I probably get more value from reading histories of institutional disasters and near-disasters, and the biographies of people who helped avoid some of those disasters.<p>Anyone know of a reading list or a website that collects &#x27;institutional disasters and near-disasters&#x27;? e.g. stuff like the recent Accenture&#x2F;Hertz article, breaking then saving healthcare.gov etc.
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aj7about 6 years ago
“there might be no more cost-effective self-improvement investment than enrolling in Toastmasters and buying a gym membership”<p>Horrible advice. Do not do.
leetcrewabout 6 years ago
&gt; I’m also pretty sceptical of ‘earning-to-give’ careers. That’s because it’s very unlikely that you can earn more money than you would have been able to direct in a funding organisation — there’s a lot more competition to become a billionaire than there is to become a leader or grantmaker at a foundation or important government agency.<p>I&#x27;m sure this is literally true, but I&#x27;m not sure what I think about it. when you&#x27;re directing large amounts of money at a nonprofit, for the most part you are just allocating money that has already been donated; you are choosing between charitable causes, but perhaps not advancing the &quot;production frontier&quot; that much unless you are really good at spending efficiently or fundraising. but if you accumulate wealth of your own and donating it, you are actually increasing the amount of money that can be spent on problems. might it not be better to add $1 million to the pool than to decide how $10 million gets allocated?
codingdaveabout 6 years ago
This advice makes sense... only if you are already fortunate enough that choosing to take unpaid work, buying all your meals out, etc. is a reasonable choice that doesn&#x27;t impact your personal finances.<p>For the rest of us, though, we need to get there first. The best advice I have for younger people to help them get there is not to optimize your earnings, but instead to minimize your personal burn rate. It is nice to have enough money for nice homes and other things. It is even nicer to know that if your income went away, you can still live on a low-paying job is you absolutely had to. And it is wonderful to be able to take any job you want, with a high salary being a nice-to-have bonus, not a requirement due to choices you made in where and how to live.
sunstoneabout 6 years ago
One piece of advice almost never given is that some people just should not work for a boss. It&#x27;s hard to know when you&#x27;re that person because you can be smart and engaging and still qualify.
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agsamekabout 6 years ago
&gt; Work to solve problems that aren’t popular. Popularity of a problem is evidence that it is hard to solve, competition is high, and your individual contribution is likely to be small.<p>I think this is a relevant advice for us - wannabe millionaires. Or at least for me. Do not be a copycat. Look deeper for a good enough problems. Don&#x27;t focus on what is hot.<p>It may not be an advise to surely become the next billionaire, but millionaire may be fine.
anotheryouabout 6 years ago
I&#x27;m 30. Am I still young enough? (I guess the answer is: for some things, not for others and never stop making progress)<p>P.S.: Anyone looking for a (senior) IT product manager and working on something slightly altruistic, scientific and interesting?<p>Preferred topics: News, News Aggregation, Knowledge Management, anything from Data over NLP to Deep Learning (ethically though please), generally Scientific Topics.
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ThomPeteabout 6 years ago
Here is the thing.<p>You probably got that advice when you were young, but you wouldn&#x27;t listen to it even if it was being served by someone you respected because you didn&#x27;t understand it because you hadn&#x27;t lived through the things that would make you appreciate that kind of advice.<p>A muchh better approach is to go make mistakes and you will learn what you needed to learn to get through life.
graycatabout 6 years ago
I&#x27;ll give an answer:<p>The most important thing in life is family.<p>For family and more, the most important raw material is financial security.<p>In the US, the main path to financial security is to start, own, and run a successful business.<p>In the US, for nearly all the businesses, the most important <i>Buffett moat</i> and, thus, protection, is a <i>geographical barrier to entry</i> -- for the business you are in, it is a big advantage to have no competition more than 100 miles away so that if do well in a radius of 100 miles will likely do well. Next, pick a business where you have lots of customers, not just a few really important ones.<p>This owning a business is important: It can be just super tough even to buy a house when working for someone else. Commonly they just don&#x27;t have to pay that much.<p>Beware the usual, <i>mainstream</i> media: They are at best smelly bait for the ad hook and otherwise propaganda for special interests. They are NOT serious sources of valuable information.<p>DO exploit compound interest, in an index stock fund, real estate, etc.<p>Unless are already wealthy, avoid restaurants and eat at home. Restaurant food is MUCH more expensive, and the cost really adds up. Eating at home is MUCH cheaper. E.g., I have developed a recipe for a pizza for one meal for one -- ready to eat at anytime within 20 minutes with 10 of those just waiting on the cooking. Cost per pizza $0.40 to $1.00 depending on the toppings. Cost of the flour, $0.09. It&#x27;s better, cheaper, and faster than frozen, carry-out, or delivery. Do much the same for 6-12 dishes, and call that mostly ENOUGH. The $1 version is better than $10-20 in restaurants. The extra $9-19 really adds up -- put that in a piggy bank and then in an index fund for 30 years and will really have something. I wish I&#x27;d known that.<p>These days often can get buy wearing blue jeans. Do that. They were and are made of canvas originally designed as cloth for sails for sailing ships -- DARNED tough. Don&#x27;t need the expensive, famous, fancy brands. Similarly for shoes -- boating shoes are good because they are still good in rain and light snow.<p>For education, learn enough so that you can learn more as needed and how to filter the good stuff from the 99% which is junk, even in the best academics.<p>What to learn for your business? Mostly have to learn that year by year or even month by month to RESPOND to what the MARKET wants. Master&#x27;s and Ph.D. degrees (I have both, in the STEM fields, from one of the world&#x27;s best research universities) can help a little but, except in rare cases, do not replace the learning in response to short term market opportunities.<p>Make friends, associates, acquaintances whenever and however you can, just casual and even superficial can be much better than nothing.<p>Don&#x27;t waste time, e.g., don&#x27;t watch TV.<p>Learn about human psychology, e.g., as in common psychological counseling. Hopefully you don&#x27;t need the counseling, but you DO need to know what it is about the maybe 50% of other people who DO need such counseling. E.g., you need to know about emotions quite generally and also anxieties, obsessions, libido, duplicity, manipulations, deceptions, etc. The best single source I found on human psychology is E. Fromm, <i>The Art of Loving</i>, but alone it is not enough.<p>Learn about organizational behavior. Learn about management and, in particular, borrow some points from the US military.<p>Know how politics works, and, when you need to, play the game.<p>Learn about law -- mostly try to avoid it since there mostly only the lawyers make money.<p>If you have any hope or intention of getting some financial security, then before getting married have a good pre-nup. To s LOT of people, from whatever in their personalities or backgrounds, the meaning of <i>love</i> is not very strong and, even if it is, usually can blow away, <i>Gone with the Wind</i>, at anytime in about three years. Just accept that in that famous Norman Rockwell painting of Thanksgiving, nearly everyone at the table is acting.<p>You have to be the CEO and COB of your own life; a good co-CEO would be TERRIFIC but in practice is asking for a LOT -- without some really good evidence, don&#x27;t bet much on a good co-CEO relationship lasting. Here are some things that have a good shot at lasting longer than a good co-CEO relationship -- a leather belt, a wooden chair, Casio wrist watch, a bedroom chest of drawers, a good pair of boat shoes, a bottle of red wine from <i>Corton</i> in France, a piano, a violin, a collection of stemmed wine glasses in the kitchen, nearly any new car, a cast iron frying pan, even most Teflon frying pans, a house that initially meets code, a good index fund account.<p>From Fromm, &quot;Men and women deserve equal respect as persons but are not the same.&quot; Learn about the difference.
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blfrabout 6 years ago
<i>Find easy ways you can come across better.</i><p>Surprisingly few hackers wear suits. And it&#x27;s probably the cheapest universal social hack around.
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dannykwellsabout 6 years ago
I find this website absurd. Is it really just articles by random people which give high-level advice on how to have a career? Because if so, most likely there is little coherence between any of these pieces, meaning that people will really just listen to whichever article they agree with.<p>Also, lot of this advice in particular, sucks:<p>&quot;Reverse engineer the paths of famous people&quot; - too bad these paths often start very young due to privilege and wealth, and also have huge amounts of luck involved. The two things you can&#x27;t really control in this world: how rich your parents are, and how lucky you are.<p>&quot;Avoid spending time to earn money&quot; - what, like compound growth isn&#x27;t a thing? I would much, much rather make $20 now than have to make $100, or $500 when I&#x27;m 60.<p>&quot;Work to solve problems that aren&#x27;t popular&quot; - his&#x2F;her advice is, work on an un-important problem because no one cares about it, so at least you&#x27;ll make big contributions. But, ummm, no one will care. This goes common advice, which is to seek leverage in your role - that is, big effects through small contributions.<p>I could go on. This is garbage and just not redeemable.
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jimmcslimabout 6 years ago
Keep a journal would be the bit of advice I&#x27;d give.
teh_klevabout 6 years ago
As a 52 year old Scottish person who&#x27;s doing ok(&#x27;ish), and typically in a Scottish fashion has no problem being forthright, I don&#x27;t have a problem stating that for any normal human being in a professional career....this is mostly a pile of wank.<p>I guess my point is, sure it&#x27;s nice to reflect on your &lt;30 life, but no-one normal in their late teens and into their 20&#x27;s needs to apply any of this bollocks.<p>Go enjoy your 20&#x27;s, you never get them back again, they were the best years of my life and I did very little tech. You&#x27;re likely never going to be Mark Zuckerberg or the Google twins (god forbid). If you do come up with a cracking idea (like the Stripe brothers) then go yourself, but this list is what is wrong with our industry when it comes to younger folks entering the biz. You don&#x27;t need these crutches, you either got it or you don&#x27;t. But I implore folks in their 20&#x27;s to go get some life experience, and then develop a &quot;life changing&quot; or &quot;disrupting&quot; app.<p>And you know there&#x27;s nothing wrong with being an expert mort, with a blog and now and again being invited to talk at a session on your favourite tech you got invested in.<p>Happy to answer questions.
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kartanabout 6 years ago
&gt; Don’t focus too much on long-term plans.<p>I always have long-term plans. But, I abandon them as soon as I find a better way to achieve my goals. Goals do not change so often, tho.<p>&gt; Find good thinkers and cold-call the ones you most admire.<p>I will change this to read, read a lot. If you are introverted or realise that this advice does not scale (millions of developers calling the same poor guy) books are your best option. The advice, teachings, etc. that someone will give to you personally probably are also part of their writing.<p>&gt; Crowdsource your career decisions.<p>It is essential to get good friends that will tell you that you are wrong. And you need to listen.<p>&gt; Be a pleasant person.<p>Always. :)<p>&gt; Assign a high value to productivity over your whole lifespan<p>Yes. But, do not worry when you wast time. It happens, it is part of being human. If you regret each time &quot;wasted&quot; your life is going to be just regretted. Acknowledge that you did not do what you planned, adjust realistically.<p>&gt; Don’t over-optimise things that aren’t your top priority.<p>Good enough is that &quot;good enough&quot;.<p>&gt; Read a lot and read things that people around you aren’t reading.<p>Yes. Look for the best book on each category and read those. Then go to a shop a read anything that gets your attention (Judge the next book you are going to read by its cover).<p>&gt; Avoid stuff that could cause irreversible reputational harm, or slow down a security clearance.<p>Be a pleasant person. :)<p>&gt; Reflect seriously on what problem to prioritise solving.<p>I do not agree with this one. To try to solve the heat death of the universe is an interesting thought experiment and abstract thinking is a good skill to have.<p>&gt; Work to solve problems that aren’t popular.<p>I will change this one to solve problems that you care about and&#x2F;or understand. There are billions of people on earth; anything you try to do someone else is already doing or did it in the past. Stop worrying and do what matters to you.<p>&gt; Read more history.<p>Science, history, biology, literature, mathematics, culture, architecture, all books are your friends.<p>&gt; Avoid spending time to earn or save money.<p>If you have the luxury, I saved most of the money I earned when I was young. That has allowed me to be free to make decisions that I would have not without money. Now that I have a good job, I prefer to pay than to spend money.<p>&gt; I’m also pretty sceptical of ‘earning-to-give’ careers.<p>Do whatever motivates you.<p>&gt; Find easy ways you can come across better.<p>Be a pleasant person. :)<p>&gt; Find the biographies of people whose job you’d like to have, and figure out how they got there.<p>Do not. What worked 40 years ago, may not work nowadays. The realisation is that any job is achievable if you follow the correct career path. Being a billionaire is not a job description.<p>&gt; Some jobs in government may be easier to get than you imagine.<p>Any job is achievable if you follow the correct career path.<p>&gt; I think there might be an over-emphasis on ‘personal fit’ in effective altruism.<p>Be realistic but do not abandon too soon.
doitLPabout 6 years ago
Whoever the author is, they are probably from a commonwealth country, based on their spelling of “prioritise” and “organisation”.
skookumchuckabout 6 years ago
I wish I&#x27;d bought more Microsoft&#x2F;Apple stock.
neokantianabout 6 years ago
&gt; Avoid stuff that could cause irreversible reputational harm, or slow down a security clearance ... avoid saying stuff online that you could regret later.<p>Avoid jobs where it matters. A corporate drone cannot say what he wants, neither online, nor elsewhere, because the HR department could be watching. Ever since cashing out from my startup, I care even less about what any culturally-marxist corporate HR department may think about me.<p>&gt; Reflect seriously on what problem to prioritise solving. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about global health and animal welfare.<p>No, don&#x27;t waste your time on problems that you cannot possibly solve by yourself. Work on stuff in which you can make a difference.