Non-vegans are always trying to do this smug "checkmate vegans" bullshit. It's incredibly tiresome.<p>There's this bizarre, illogical trope that doing <i>some</i> good is pointless if you can't be absolutely, impeccably perfect in every way. Again, it's just obvious bullshit from people who don't even really believe what they're saying, they're just playing a stupid gotcha game.
I hate these stupid arguments. The entire point is to muddy the definition of a word so much as to render it worthless for political reasons. It's like how assault rifle was a well understood term in the 70s and 80s, but today groups quibble over technical minutiae in an effort to invalidate the term.<p>As with most labels, the word vegan has a fluid, rough definition which varies slightly over time and person-to-person. If someone tells me they are a vegan, I know they are trying to tell me that they avoid foods that use animal parts or their byproducts. It's not some fucking contract they entered into prohibiting them from eating whatever foods society decides to impose the vegan label on via mental gymnastics. If they are cool with eating the butter made from Betsy, my happy cow, then whatever, let them eat the butter.<p>FWIW, I'm a carnivore and object to the consumption of almonds because of their harmful impact to the environment. That might make me a hypocrite to someone because I'm totally okay with eating a banana or something. But I don't care, I'm free to decide my own arbitrary moral compass for whatever reason I choose.<p>I guess I'm aggravated by society's needless pedantry over language. Not every word needs a rigid legal or technical definition that should be adhered to. And the people guilty of this are largely doing so because they don't agree with you and are attempting to make you look stupid to justify their position.
Even the most ridiculous of militant vegans (and they get pretty ridiculous) would consider things like almonds, avocados or figs vegan. Stop with the perfectionism and the nitpicking. It's bad for the movement and bad for the animals/environment.<p>"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, <i>as far as is possible and practicable</i>, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."[1]<p>1. <a href="https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism" rel="nofollow">https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism</a>
Here's the definition of veganism by the Vegan Society: "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."
As a non-vegan, it really irks me when other non-vegans try to “checkmate” vegans with situations like this. It’s a personal choice to not partake in the factory meat/animal products industry and the measurable harm that comes to life forms from it. True, you can show that vegetables and other byproducts can be derived from human labor cost, but when the rubber meets the road, and you make an individual choice on what products to consume, it’s valid to judge these ethical concerns and decide what best fits into your personal values set. I think it helps that I come from the Hardcore Punk scene where many of my friends are vegan.
Clickbait title! Nothing on this planet would be vegan if we look closely at harm caused by any behavior or habit or use. It’s about reducing harm and least harm. If people understood that part of veganism and then moved further to understand it better, there wouldn’t be so much hatred or so many clickbait titles.<p>Pointing out the truth and informing people about the consequences of their choices can be done without silly titles that make many people roll their eyes.
Not sure about the vegan part but I've just discovered that avocados require lots of water during production and as such are not very natural-resource-friendly.<p><a href="https://old.danwatch.dk/en/undersogelseskapitel/how-much-water-does-it-take-to-grow-an-avocado/" rel="nofollow">https://old.danwatch.dk/en/undersogelseskapitel/how-much-wat...</a>
The absurd logical conclusion is to stop eating and die.<p>We all want it to be better. Vegans are trying. People are trying. What good does this discourse serve?
It's fun to reduce complex, varied and nuanced ethical stances into as few as possible boxes and give them cool names like sufficientarianism, and that way, we can all pick a clan and then argue about true scotsman all day long.<p>I'm curious, what ethical box would I fit in if I'm more worried about maximising my sustained access to high quality avocados and honey? So that it is the balance optimum between being healthy and safe to eat, produced sustainably, delicious, varied in flavors, and available for me to buy year round?
My first impression was "D'uh", but then, from the article:<p>> Vegans avoid animal products. For strict vegans this means avoiding honey because of the exploitation of bees. That seems to imply that vegans should also avoid vegetables like avocados that involve exploiting bees in their production.<p>I'm not vegan, so I don't know how deep they are involved in "not animal exploitation" even is not obvius nor direct
I think you can make a case that there are vegans, and there are Vegans. Much like you can be libertarian without being a Libertarian, or enjoy the search for truth without ever worrying if what you have learned is The Truth.<p>I strive to be vegan, though sometimes I am unsuccessful. I also strive not to lie, though sometimes my friend wants to know if this whatever looks good on him or her.<p>I strive to be a person who eats only plant and plant-derived food, for several personal reasons (including some ethical!), though I don't really care about whether a bee was transported from one field to another to pollinate something. If that makes me not a Vegan, then I don't care. But I still try to eat plant-based foods.<p>But I also don't call myself a vegan or even an aspiring-vegan. I am almost certainly a vegetarian since I don't eat any meat, though I don't call myself a vegetarian.<p>Personally, I am satisfied letting the person who wants to or is trying to be vegan decide for themselves whether they are comfortable eating avocados or whatever.<p>People would be happier in life if they weren't so concerned about absolutes, I think. Just try to be who you want to be. If you want to try to be the best capital-V Vegan as defined by someone else's standards (and adopt them as your own or w/e) that you can be, then maybe don't eat avocados.
If they aren't because of the “exploitation” of bees in migratory beekeeping, then ethical vegans probably need to also consider the use of manure as fertilizer, where or comes from, and what crops it is used on in assessing acceptable vegan food.
I tired of zealots.<p>What you eat is a personal choice.<p>If the whole world ate dogs routinely, I would choose carrots.<p>Some would say "Ah, stupid carrot eater doesn't know the root bacteria he's killing is also sentient!" Dogs, bacteria: all under the living tree.<p>See, eat anything and shut up you stupid carrot eating zealot.<p>Then there's the Corgi burger macs for $2.5 and the corporate lunches where I ask for any menu exception and get the carrot soup entree for $25.<p>Never mind the free range German Shepherd steaks or bulldog sausage, that shit is everywhere.<p>But taste is not everything my friends,<p>sometimes it takes real cognitive effort to be aware of factory farming, government subsidies, nutritional health, environmental downstream effects and other considerations before you open your big mouth.<p>A little impulse control goes a long way.<p>That said, I still wear my 7 year old dog leather shoes from China and don't subscribe to any CarrotPower YouTuber channels.<p>What's up, doc?