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Tech Jobs Lead to the Middle Class, But Not for the Masses

89 pointsby lordgilmanalmost 6 years ago

8 comments

seibeljalmost 6 years ago
There has always been a bottom-tier category of software development, which is programming at the level of &quot;tweaking wordpress websites&quot;. Not that all jobs at this level are doing this, but the technical skill is what it takes to setup, configure, operate, and tweak a wordpress website, which requires some understanding of how websites work, web servers, PHP, JavaScript, CSS, a plugin ecosystem, backups, etc. It is quite simple for a software pro, but light years beyond what someone untrained could do.<p>Also, this can be extremely high-impact to a business. Consultancies exist at this technical difficulty making lots of money but also delivering lots of value. Go into a non-tech business, notice how 1000 man hours per month are essentially updating Excel files, automate most of it with a Python or VB script, and save the company hundreds of thousands of dollars.<p>You don&#x27;t need to feel attacked or nervous that these jobs exist. &quot;Software [Developer|Engineer|Architect]&quot; has no legal definition and the title is meaningless, which is why hiring developers has overhead where you need to check far beyond what the resume says to assess a candidate&#x27;s true skill.<p>It&#x27;s great that $50-80,000 salary jobs can exist for people who have a modicum of software development talent. I&#x27;m very happy for these people.
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frankbreetzalmost 6 years ago
I worked teaching factory workers how to use a software, and can say that no matter how much education and training the majority of these people receive they are not going to become software developers, and it isn&#x27;t just the older generation. It takes a certain level of abstract thought to be a software developer. The kind of software development jobs that a typical factory worker is capable of are quickly disappearing if they aren&#x27;t already gone.
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csensealmost 6 years ago
&quot;Your job screwing bolts on cars disappeared? Learn to code and be a programmer.&quot; Great advice for the typical HN reader, but a lot of people who can learn to screw bolts on cars just don&#x27;t have what it takes to be a good coder.<p>I don&#x27;t know if it&#x27;s due to innate intelligence, upbringing, environment, attitude, or what. But there are millions of people out there who just don&#x27;t seem to be able to master the abstract thinking required. And I&#x27;m not sure they&#x27;ll ever be able to, regardless of how much education we give them.<p>What should our economy do with those people going forward? For social stability and ethical reasons, we ought to give them a path to decent middle class lives. How do we make that happen?<p>I think the key&#x27;s that from 1880 to 1980, we invented mainly technologies that pulled more and more people into the labor force. Now we&#x27;ve started inventing technologies that push more and more people out of the labor force.<p>How do we reverse the trend? What kind of technology can we try to invent that pulls in a huge number of people to work, the more laborers, the better?
richdevalmost 6 years ago
Remember why Agile&#x2F;Scrum sucks and you&#x27;ll see when attitudes started to get out of whack : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5406384" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5406384</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;programming&#x2F;comments&#x2F;44bmmq&#x2F;why_agile_and_especially_scrum_are_terrible&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;programming&#x2F;comments&#x2F;44bmmq&#x2F;why_agi...</a>
ngcc_hkalmost 6 years ago
Can everyone (the mass) is in the middle ... is the middle ...
killjoywasherealmost 6 years ago
&gt; Training, mentoring and counseling people — often from disadvantaged backgrounds — is not a mass-production process.<p>Yes, yes it is. It literally is. Maybe you need some additional sorting of raw materials in, maybe the machines (the teachers, the mentors) have a relatively low number of cycles in their lifespan (number of students they can teach), maybe there&#x27;s more sorting on the output (just like chips are sorted after production), but at nation-scale software engineers are definitely mass-producible.
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jstewartmobilealmost 6 years ago
&quot;<i>Today, Mr. Davis, 27, is a cybersecurity specialist working on an incident response team at the company. He earns above $40,000, more than twice his salary in retail.</i>&quot;<p>Isn&#x27;t that like what people at Costco make for running a cash register and being friendly?<p>And who do you think has more job security?<p>edit: To be less coy about it, if you are any good at this stuff and are only making &quot;above $40k&quot;, you are getting f-ed.
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marsroveralmost 6 years ago
I&#x27;m tired of the continued devaluation of my profession.<p>Software development (I hate the term &quot;coding&quot;) is not a manufacturing job, as much as some company wants it to be. And apprenticeships at body shops isn&#x27;t going to create software developers, it&#x27;s just going to create terrible software with obvious rot and decay as the years go own.
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