TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

More evidence that autism is linked to gut bacteria

174 pointsby fraqedalmost 6 years ago

16 comments

jcranmeralmost 6 years ago
Derek Lowe just had a blog post out today which is quite skeptical of the mice study: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.sciencemag.org&#x2F;pipeline&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;31&#x2F;autism-mouse-models-for-the-microbiome" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.sciencemag.org&#x2F;pipeline&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;31&#x2F;au...</a>.<p>The salient points are:<p>* Very small N.<p>* Behavioral studies of mice can be very subjective in their own right, so you can definitely get bias, particularly with small N.<p>* There&#x27;s no generally accepted model of autism in mice. In other words, mice might not even be capable of getting autism in the first place, so saying that &quot;these behaviors in mice correlate with autism in humans&quot; is a bit of a limb.<p>* No measurement of the microbiome in the descendants-of-the-implanted-microbiome (the ones that were actually tested) was demonstrated.<p>So you can come away from the paper with the feeling that they set out to test a hypothesis, interpreted subjective results in the way that best matches the hypothesis, and failed to (or perhaps even purposefully excluded) test for alternate hypotheses that might explain the evidence better.
评论 #20064703 未加载
评论 #20064479 未加载
评论 #20064078 未加载
评论 #20066160 未加载
gnodealmost 6 years ago
I think something which should be considered, is that gut bacterial abnormality is very plausibly a consequence of autism, rather than a cause. Selective eating and food refusal occurs in about three quarters of children with ASD, and has been used as a diagnostic criteria (which reinforces the correlation). Poor diversity in nutrition leads to poor biodiversity in the gut flora.<p>That said, poor gut biodiversity could in turn lead to exacerbated presentation of symptoms, due to gut flora&#x27;s involvement in neurotransmitter systems, interactions with the gut&#x27;s nervous system, or simply painful intestinal distress.
评论 #20064150 未加载
评论 #20063890 未加载
评论 #20064401 未加载
hprotagonistalmost 6 years ago
Derek Lowe is extremely skeptical of this result. the hypothesis might be Ok, but this work in particular isn’t especially convincing:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.sciencemag.org&#x2F;pipeline&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;31&#x2F;autism-mouse-models-for-the-microbiome" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.sciencemag.org&#x2F;pipeline&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;31&#x2F;au...</a><p>more criticism: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;WiringTheBrain&#x2F;status&#x2F;1134129415456264193" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;WiringTheBrain&#x2F;status&#x2F;113412941545626419...</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;DrBrocktagon&#x2F;status&#x2F;1134339288907206656" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;DrBrocktagon&#x2F;status&#x2F;1134339288907206656</a>
gwwalmost 6 years ago
I am not a microbiome expert but I have always wondered how dynamic is the gut microbiome? For example, maybe I travel for a week and consume a bunch of fast food and drink a bunch of alcohol or I contracted food poisoning. Would my gut microbiome be substantially different than if I followed my regular diet of relatively healthy home made foods? and how long would it take to go back to its default state before I travelled (if ever).
评论 #20063547 未加载
评论 #20069790 未加载
评论 #20064056 未加载
评论 #20063656 未加载
评论 #20063612 未加载
评论 #20063967 未加载
neonatealmost 6 years ago
<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;ykDqk" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;ykDqk</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20190530230118&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;science-and-technology&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;30&#x2F;more-evidence-that-autism-is-linked-to-gut-bacteria" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20190530230118&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.econo...</a>
tzsalmost 6 years ago
I hope this doesn&#x27;t provide ammunition for the people pushing making autistic children drink bleach or giving them bleach enemas as a &quot;cure&quot; for autism. Yes, there are such people, and yes, there are parents stupid enough to take their advice and do that to their kids.<p>Since killing bacteria is one of the legitimate functions of bleach, I can see them claiming that their bleach therapy will work by killing off that bad, autism-linked gut bacteria.
vlalmost 6 years ago
If it&#x27;s true, it will be one of the biggest medical breakthroughs!<p>Shifts like this happen and lead to huge difference in people&#x27;s lives. Now mostly forgotten, but it was believed that ulcers are caused by stress and food and not bacteria. I have a family member that didn&#x27;t survive surgery for mistreated ulcer. Then, for me it was a simple matter of taking antibiotics for few weeks.
tsherralmost 6 years ago
Is there a way to get good guy bacteria? I&#x27;ve read probiotics are useless.
评论 #20063503 未加载
评论 #20063661 未加载
评论 #20064197 未加载
评论 #20063863 未加载
评论 #20063185 未加载
评论 #20063710 未加载
ThrustVectoringalmost 6 years ago
The biggest issue with a lot of autism research is in how they measure the symptoms of autism. Autistics will often &quot;melt down&quot; or engage in other stereotypical behaviors when the environmental stressors are more severe than what they can deal with through behavior that appears &quot;normal&quot;. The more severe the stressors, the more severe and frequent the behavioral deviations.<p>In short, most scientific approaches will often conflate reducing autism with helping people handle their autism better. It&#x27;s a pretty chronic problem for understanding the disease, but much less impactful for generating practical treatments. Mental healthcare in general doesn&#x27;t care much whether it reduces the severity of neurodivergence or the distress and socially problematic behavior caused by neurodivergence.
评论 #20066833 未加载
syntaxingalmost 6 years ago
This might sound naive, but isn&#x27;t the easiest method to reject the hypothesis is to gather data on gut bacteria in people with ASD and those that don&#x27;t? Wouldn&#x27;t that be much more direct and explain much more? Or is there some sort of technological or cost limitation to this method?
onemoresoopalmost 6 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outline.com&#x2F;BkAwaE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outline.com&#x2F;BkAwaE</a>
ManuelKiesslingalmost 6 years ago
Call me old-school, but from my perspective, if we are talking about actual <i>evidence</i>, you need exactly one piece of actual evidence, and a case is settled.<p>Maybe this is about <i>hints</i>, not evidence?
评论 #20065432 未加载
gubbroraalmost 6 years ago
Are we at the peak of the hype cycle for gut bacteria now?
评论 #20063742 未加载
评论 #20064042 未加载
评论 #20064880 未加载
评论 #20064940 未加载
评论 #20063677 未加载
TheAceOfHeartsalmost 6 years ago
There appears to be an increasing amount of evidence linking an unhealthy gut microbiome with various conditions (mostly psychiatric), including a few big ones like Alzheimer&#x27;s and depression. This has gotten me wondering: how many people might be sick as a consequence of their poor diet? It&#x27;s probably a good idea to carefully scrutinize your diet as a potential influencing factor if you have a medical condition. Maybe making a few tweaks could end up helping you feel better? In any case, always discuss things with your doctor!<p>Anecdotally, I began to regularly consume more fermented foods (e.g. plain Greek yogurt, kimchi, kombucha, kefir) about 8 or 9 months ago, which helped trigger a cascade of other positive changes and led to gradual but marked improvements to my health.
评论 #20065916 未加载
Chazprimealmost 6 years ago
This seems to be a trend: a study finds correlation between X and Y in mice, <i>no evidence</i> that X is linked to Y in humans.
评论 #20065823 未加载
phjesusthatguy3almost 6 years ago
[d]
评论 #20066568 未加载