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Boeing Knew the AOA Disagree Alert on the 737 Max Didn’t Work

93 pointsby samrohnalmost 6 years ago

10 comments

Deimorzalmost 6 years ago
This is blogspam from over a month ago.<p>Here&#x27;s the official release from Boeing that this is just reiterating (from May 5): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;boeing.mediaroom.com&#x2F;news-releases-statements?item=130431" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;boeing.mediaroom.com&#x2F;news-releases-statements?item=1...</a><p>NYTimes article: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;05&#x2F;business&#x2F;boeing-737-max-warning-light.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;05&#x2F;business&#x2F;boeing-737-max-w...</a><p>HN discussion of that article: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19835608" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19835608</a>
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aaronbrethorstalmost 6 years ago
<i>&quot;Senior company leadership was not involved in the review and first became aware of this issue in the aftermath of the Lion Air accident.&quot;</i><p>i.e. the buck stops somewhere else!
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jandeboevriealmost 6 years ago
First line: In 2017, Boeing learned that the angle-of-attack (AOA) disagree alert — a standard feature on all 737 MAX aircraft — didn&#x27;t work on the majority of the planes. The company determined that the alert was not necessary for safe operation, so it did not inform operators or the FAA.<p>So all those lives could have been saved and they knew it in 2017? And they let two crashes happen? Explain that to the ones who got left behind...
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josefrichteralmost 6 years ago
I&#x27;d be curious to read more about those cases when MCAS was engaged, but the pilots were able to recover. There were a number of them.
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CamperBob2almost 6 years ago
This is an interesting point. Some will argue that the AOA disagree indicator wouldn&#x27;t have made any difference in either crash. But it seems like it <i>would</i> have caused Lion Air to take their aircraft out of service and fix the problem after it occurred on the penultimate flight.<p>Of course, the fact that they kept the aircraft in service without bothering to diagnose the issue that almost got everyone killed on the previous flight is a counterargument in itself. There&#x27;s more than enough gross negligence to go around in this case, unfortunately.<p>Edit: actually, it appears that Lion didn&#x27;t spring for the &quot;optional&quot; warning indicator feature in the first place.
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frostburgalmost 6 years ago
Boeing should be fined enough that &quot;shareholder value&quot; would be roughly zero after all the assets are sold to pay the fine.<p>That (besides any personal penalty that might be appropriate, of course) might realign the incentives for the next set of managers facing similar choices somewhere else, but it won&#x27;t happen.
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basicplus2almost 6 years ago
&lt;The company said that a Boeing-convened safety review board affirmed in December that the absence of the AOA disagree alert from flight displays would not have presented a safety issue.<p>The FAA confirmed the discussion and that it deemed the issue &quot;low risk&quot; at the time.&gt;<p>So the FAA is culpable as well as Boeing
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dfeojm-zlibalmost 6 years ago
Still wondering about why 737 NGs (-600,-700,-800,-900) are still deemed &quot;airworthy&quot; despite the 2010 investigative report on Boeing&#x27;s intentional deception and cover-up of Ducommun&#x27;s absurdly dangerous and substandard critical structural fuselage components. Several passengers have already died from fuselage breakups from hard landings and runway overruns when previous aircraft have survived similar situations intact; plus the possibility of aircraft catastrophically breaking up in heavy turbulence.
afarrellalmost 6 years ago
Boeing has over 100,000 employees. What does it mean when a sentence says that &quot;Boeing knew X&quot;?
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jdsullyalmost 6 years ago
It’s not clear the AOA disagree light would have saved the two flights, so waiting for the next release was reasonable.<p>The critical jump pilots had to make was that this was a trim runaway event. AOA indicators were not connected to the trim system before.
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