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We tried to hustle our way into YC after we got rejected

300 pointsby sabbakeynejadalmost 6 years ago

33 comments

filmgirlcwalmost 6 years ago
I don&#x27;t want to be a jerk to kids in their early 20s who are bootstrapping their startup idea, but reading this account would actually confirm for me why this team wasn&#x27;t ready to be accepted into YC or a similar program.<p>A big part of the onus of the original product, at least, as it was launched, was that it was &quot;watermark free&quot; and the way it was &quot;sold&quot; to end-users was that it was a free service. Now, I can understand the initial rationale here -- you want to get users, you start with free, and assume you&#x27;ll pivot to paid options&#x2F;add-ons at some point or get sponsorship or other revenue streams, or pretend it&#x27;s still 2009 and that startups with no revenue can obtain ridiculous valuations and then be acquired by Yahoo or whatever.<p>The problem is, it&#x27;s no longer 2009 and investing strategies have changed. Revenue has replaced users as the important growth metric for lots of investors. (There are exceptions, I&#x27;m aware, but this is a general trend we&#x27;ve seen over the last few years. Don&#x27;t worry founders, the pendulum is bound to go back in the other direction in another few years.)<p>Now, I don&#x27;t know what the team&#x27;s original business plan was for this service, but based on the YC letter, it appears that they said &quot;we&#x27;ll start charging eventually&quot; and that led to the question about why you aren&#x27;t already trying that now, when you have 35,000 MAU. A fair question -- and one that really represents more of a question about business plan rather than lack of MRR.<p>But the team read this as &quot;if we can show MRR, we can prove we&#x27;re ready&quot; -- except that wasn&#x27;t and isn&#x27;t the problem here. Yes, it&#x27;s impressive that the team was able to hack together a payment gateway and offer a pro product in a weekend and obtain $500 in revenue (should be noted that this isn&#x27;t recurring and it won&#x27;t be clear what the actual recurring revenue is for several months), but the fact that it was done so haphazardly, and honestly, for what looks like the wrong reasons (it wasn&#x27;t about &quot;this is best for the business&quot; it was about &quot;this will get us into YC&quot;), is the biggest red flag.<p>If you want to change a fundamental part of your product (no watermarks) and make it a pro feature to entice users to pay, you&#x27;re welcome to do that. It may or may not work for existing users, and it&#x27;s possible there are better ways to extract revenue&#x2F;add value. The truth is though, this was an idea done at the last minute to try to secure placement in an accelerator, it doesn&#x27;t appear to be born out of actual business rationale for the product.
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d0malmost 6 years ago
So, that&#x27;s the dichotomy of YC.<p>YC is an accelerator, and as such, needs to accelerate &#x2F;something&#x2F;. If you join too early, then it&#x27;s almost a distraction to getting the product out and talking to users. However, hit the sweet spot and YC is an invaluable resource to help you grow.<p>On the other hand, YC opens the door to so many opportunities and great people, that even if you&#x27;re too early, the net result is still a pure positive for your career and startup.
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prickledpearalmost 6 years ago
It&#x27;s great that YC provides feedback on why they don&#x27;t accept (some) companies. However, it&#x27;s a bit disappointing to see that not having MRR is a reason to reject a company. It seems like a lot of the successful YC companies were accepted way before they were anywhere to close to revenue -- and some were even working on a completely different product when accepted.<p>My hope is that MRR is sufficient, but not necessary for acceptance!
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whiddershinsalmost 6 years ago
At first I was with them, but when they summarized at the end I think they missed the underlying point of the feedback.<p>The feedback was “why have you waited so long” not “this was too early for you to apply”<p>The fact that the founders bent that around in their heads after changing their actions, to me, indicates they aren’t quite getting what the email implied.<p>But what do I know, I’ve never gotten in to YCombinator or launched a successful startup.
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slap_shotalmost 6 years ago
&gt; In March, we submitted our application, and kinda forgot about it.<p>&gt; Two months later we got an email saying that a partner would like to speak to us.<p>This is a tangent, but I want to share something about my YC interview experience for anybody ever in this position.<p>I filled out my application in February for the NYC interviews. They passed on me for the early NYC interviews, but ~2 months later I got an email for Mountain View interview.<p>During my interview, I was asked what my revenue was two months ago, and what it was last month. When I gave my answers it created immediate disarray between the three interviewers.<p>I walked through my numbers and could tell something was visibly wrong, but time was ticking and I had to steer back to the product, vision and growth.<p>When I got my rejection email, the lead-in reason was that the revenue wasn&#x27;t clear (and to clarify, we are doing VERY well with revenue growth).<p>A bit perplexed, I went back to my application and realized what had happened. The YC application asks for &quot;what was your revenue last month, two months ago, three months ago, etc)&quot;<p>The partner was trying to get me to talk about what caused a 100% revenue spike (and again, we&#x27;re not talking about small revenue here) between February and March. But when filling the answers out in February, those questions are anchored to December and January. That spike was just onboarding customers.<p>As I personally had to live through the hell of onboarding these customers from December to January, it never occurred to me that he was asking about that spike while looking at my &quot;last month&quot; and &quot;two months ago&quot; revenue.<p>I read my application a lot the week leading up to my interview. It never occurred to me change my answers to realign with the two month gap between when I filled it out and when it was accepted. I&#x27;m not sure I would even do that now, knowing what happened.<p>So the upshot is this: if you fill out your YC application well in advance, be prepared to speak to your financials (and company as a whole) both as are they are today, but also as they appear in your application, because the answer to &quot;what was your revenue last month&quot; is different depending on whether the partner is referring to your application, or the last calendar month.
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plehouxalmost 6 years ago
missiveapp.com and conferenceBadge.com, my two startups, have both been rejected at the interview phase. Our yearly revenue for both now stands in the 7 digits. We are still just a team of 3 + 1 employee, 100% bootstrapped. Life is good. My advice, keep pushing!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;missiveapp.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;missiveapp.com&#x2F;</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.conferencebadge.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.conferencebadge.com</a>
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csomaralmost 6 years ago
Check this out: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;03&#x2F;18&#x2F;here-are-the-85-startups-that-launched-today-at-y-combinators-w19-demo-day-1&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;03&#x2F;18&#x2F;here-are-the-85-startups-t...</a><p>Many YC startups don&#x27;t charge anything. Here is one that seems still to be figuring stuff out (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.54gene.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.54gene.com&#x2F;</a>). One that seems to be figuring out who and how much to charge (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ultralig.ht&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ultralig.ht&#x2F;</a>). In fact, I&#x27;d like that someone goes through the startups and deduce how many of these are making any money or have strategies to make any money.<p>Here is what I think is going on: YC is trying to be polite (bullshitting) about the rejection. They won&#x27;t straightforward tell you: You suck. Or you are not sexy enough to be in bed with. And it&#x27;s fair enough. When was the last time a potential hookup told you they won&#x27;t have sex with you because your face is ugly or you have an ugly belly.<p>YC probably picks up on intuition. You can&#x27;t judge a dog for 10 minutes. They are using subconscious cues based on their experience. They are looking for founders. The startups with high MRR are probably suckers for scaling that made it at monetizing a product to market. YC takes them (expensive %7 for cheap mentoring) because they can afford that.<p>You can&#x27;t change the built-in neural networks inside YC brains. They might be going against their intuition on the diversity front because data has suggested they should or they are trying to look cool.<p>What this team did is basically show up next morning and have a black t-shirt because they figured out that I don&#x27;t like guys in white t-shirts. That&#x27;s not going to make me like them. Probably hate them more. It shows lack of consciousness and maturity. This is not a government position with cold requirements where you need to check the boxes.
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camjohnson26almost 6 years ago
These founders haphazardly threw a new paid feature into their app just to try to impress the YC team? They should have taken the time to do market research and do it right rather than risk alienating their user base. I wonder if getting rejected was a big enough blow to their ego that they couldn’t see clearly, just like college applicants will go to top ranked colleges with no concern for the price or the risk&#x2F;reward profile of that decision, but instead so that they can brag about being the best. YC is “the best”, but that doesn’t make it right for every startup.
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rococodealmost 6 years ago
I wonder if the results thus far actually validate the concerns raised by YC (&quot;hard to know whether people are willing to pay&quot;)? $250 MRR strikes me as rather low for 35K MAU - assuming that&#x27;s 50 users it&#x27;s just over a 0.1% conversion rate, and a little over 2 weeks in I&#x27;d expect most of those monthly users to have come across the option to pay at some point by now. Nonetheless, wish you guys the best of luck in figuring out the monetization!
daltonalmost 6 years ago
I would recommend “hustling” for a period of time <i>before</i> the interview, rather than as a reaction to the outcome of it :)
wenbinalmost 6 years ago
Thanks for sharing your YC story!<p>Some personal experience: I applied to YC for 8 times over the past few years. Got one onsite interview (late 2017). Got rejected. I documented that onsite interview experience here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;broadcast.listennotes.com&#x2F;my-y-combinator-interview-experience-w18-c12e6d98c1d0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;broadcast.listennotes.com&#x2F;my-y-combinator-interview-...</a><p>Probably YC is not a good fit for everyone. I stopped applying to YC since then. My small startup is doing well now, so I&#x27;m happy :)
dannykwellsalmost 6 years ago
I kinda wonder, if you believe what&#x27;s missing in your platform is a single feature that can be implemented in 2 days, do you really think YC wouldnt realize that too?<p>So this is likely not the reason for the rejection.<p>I would have <i>even more</i> worries about these founders after this stunt because it shows a lack of self awareness and strategic insight.<p>I&#x27;m in no way affiliated but Id guess YC is looking for foundational advantages and paradigm changing ideas in their companies. You can&#x27;t pivot to those in 2 days.
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natchalmost 6 years ago
Sort of an aside but it’s really impressive to see the level of care the YC team puts into the feedback provided in the email. It would be easy to just have a generic rejection. Considering the number of teams they are interviewing, it’s even more impressive. Kudos.
ricardobeatalmost 6 years ago
I don&#x27;t think this looks very good for them. They suddenly added watermarks over their videos to &#x27;encourage&#x27; users to sign-up. A pro plan with <i>added</i> value would have been more considerate, or even a full switch to paid users with a notice period.<p>They are also displaying company logos under &#x27;Trusted by thousands globally&#x27; that obviously are not paying customers since they didn&#x27;t have subscription plans before.
auntienomenalmost 6 years ago
Your goal shouldn&#x27;t be to get into YC in a year. Your goal should be to not need YC in a year.
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teiloalmost 6 years ago
How many of those paid subscriptions are the result of people stuck in the middle of editing projects that they suddenly could not finish because of the watermarks?
rsweeney21almost 6 years ago
&gt; We had positive feedback from YC...<p>There was a time when I thought positive feedback from a VC meant something. 2 startups and $16M in VC funding later I&#x27;ve realized that it doesn&#x27;t. Having a VC tell you your startup is awesome is like having your mom tell you your startup is awesome. They have no incentive to be honest with you and every incentive to have you walk away with a positive impression of the firm.<p>Founders REALLY need to stop looking to venture capitalists for validation of their business. Your metrics are all the validation you need, especially if those metrics are profit or revenue. Putting confidence in the feedback of a VC can cause you to ignore warning signs.<p>Even if they write you a huge check, it doesn&#x27;t mean you have a good business. All it means is that you are good at fundraising.
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staunchalmost 6 years ago
This kind of feedback is not to be taken at face value. YC says very clearly that the point of the interview is to judge the quality of the founder(s). Whatever excuse they invent to write in the rejection email is really nothing more than that: a polite excuse.<p>They don&#x27;t feel that they can be frank and just say: <i>&quot;We think you&#x27;re probably bad founders based on the fact you have been very slow to charge customers.&quot;</i><p>Just remember that they&#x27;re attempting to judge the potential of a team of human beings in 10 minutes. Realize how fundamentally flawed (and demeaning) that concept is. It&#x27;s quite possible, and even likely, that their interview selection process is worse than random chance.<p>Of course, they think they&#x27;re good at picking. But this belief is based on the theory that the companies that they don&#x27;t pick will succeed even without YC&#x27;s help i.e. that there would be an embarrassing anti-portfolio.<p>Since many of YC&#x27;s most successful founders acknowledge that they wouldn&#x27;t have succeeded without YC, that theory is obviously bunk.<p>IMHO the YC application and selection process is reasonably good. It&#x27;s something approaching a crowdsourced process. The interview is them injecting their egos into the process, to the detriment of themselves and founders.<p>The problem is perpetuated because the people that do luck their way in are then immediately convinced that the system works. After all, it did select them, it must be pretty darn good. This is the destructive power of ego.<p>Someone could beat YC at selection simply by copying them and removing the interview part of the process (i.e. just accept the top N applications). Crowdsourcing is going to most closely approximate the customer point of view, and that&#x27;s what ultimately matters for startups.<p>It&#x27;s okay that YC is kind of bad at their core function. They&#x27;re still good enough to stay in business and it&#x27;s their prerogative. It&#x27;s just a shame that they&#x27;re not improving and that there isn&#x27;t anything better, yet.
Animatsalmost 6 years ago
There are tons of video editors, all the way back to Adobe Premiere. OpenShot, which is free and open source, isn&#x27;t bad. What do these people have that they don&#x27;t?<p>(Yes, it&#x27;s &quot;in the cloud&quot;. So?)
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jvagneralmost 6 years ago
&quot;venerable&quot; should be &quot;vulnerable&quot;, and Mountain View is mis-capitalized in a few places... :-)
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paulsutteralmost 6 years ago
They should put this much hustle into the business for the sake of the business, every week. Not just one weekend for YC.
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dheeraalmost 6 years ago
Raise from another VC (if you need) and keep moving. Don&#x27;t raise if you don&#x27;t need to, obviously. Like dating, if they don&#x27;t want you, it&#x27;s their loss. Hounding them will only make you sound needy, and unfortunately people (especially investors) are wired to give to the people who least need it, in general.
mychaelalmost 6 years ago
Anyone else get the impression that this team is more excited about getting into YC than building a successful business?
simonebrunozzialmost 6 years ago
&gt; Over the space of a year, we had a 60% MoM Growth Rate, 35K MAU and a great team!<p>I smile when I read &quot;X% MoM growth&quot; and the starting numbers are obviously very little. I think it&#x27;s a BS metric when presented this way.<p>Besides that, congrats on hitting 35k MAU. Not a small feat.
jacobsenscottalmost 6 years ago
I hope you start making enough money before next YC round that you don&#x27;t need to sacrifice a percentage of your company to investors - remember vc funding should be a last resort, not a goal.
samfisher83almost 6 years ago
I thought YC main thing was growth not revenue. Why did they get rejected for revenue? Also making someone fly overseas for a 10 minute interview to get rejected really sucks.<p>I hate the all day interview, but if you are coming from overseas then maybe give them more than 10 mins.
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essivealmost 6 years ago
Too much emphasis on YC - there are others
emcrazyonealmost 6 years ago
why stop with YC? There are other VCs that might pull the trigger, no?
dannylandaualmost 6 years ago
cool video editing tool!
djsumdogalmost 6 years ago
Hmm. Some rapid development. I wonder if they wrote test cases for the subscription functionality. When they had that test-payment gateway go to production, did they add safeguards to prevent that from happening again?<p>I mean, it seems like an impressive story, but when I read it, all I see is potential technical debt.<p>I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;d like to be back in startup culture. I really like solid testing, and I hate moving so fast that we don&#x27;t create that safety net.
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harrydryalmost 6 years ago
great read
stOneskullalmost 6 years ago
this ticks all the buttons, ha
hartatoralmost 6 years ago
&gt; kinda forgot about it<p>At least you didn’t ended loosing one of your dragons because of it.