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Guess I'm Done with Discord

86 pointsby stargraveover 5 years ago

18 comments

jrockwayover 5 years ago
Discord&#x27;s phone verification is awful. They are using some super old database of what provider is associated with your phone number. I ported a Google Voice number to Verizon and they said I can&#x27;t use it for phone verification because it&#x27;s Grand Central, a company that went out of business before Discord even came into existence.<p>I pay them $99 a year, and their customer service treated me like shit for this. What do I care if someone hacks my account and destroys the large community that I moderate? That&#x27;s their problem, not mine. But I doubt they care.
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ChuckMcMover 5 years ago
I am more and more thinking of this as a symptom of the &quot;Data wars.&quot; I define that as the conflict between how much data someone is willing to share in exchange for a &#x27;free&#x27; service.<p>The services aren&#x27;t free of course, they pay their overhead and costs by re-selling the data they collect about their users. And as other sources of revenue (like ads) have lost value the data service has filled in. And since the data buyers know that the service provider is in a weak negotiating position they keep pressing on them to get more and more datamilk out of their data cows for the same amount of money.<p>The pressure is on to create a low friction pay as you go service for these things that don&#x27;t extract data.
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esotericnover 5 years ago
It&#x27;s frustrating to be a power user in general with these sort of &#x27;automated lockout detection&#x27; mechanisms.<p>I&#x27;ve lost count of the number of times I&#x27;ve tried to log in to, I dunno, eBay or whatever, and computer says no, and I have to call some bloody line and speak to someone who hates their job and doesn&#x27;t understand what I mean when I talk about IP addresses.<p>I wish that these services had a way to check some box and say &quot;look, I really know what I&#x27;m doing, let anyone with the correct password&#x2F;SSH key&#x2F;whatever in&quot;.<p>If it gets hacked, _then_ I can go through all of that shit. In this case we&#x27;re talking about a bloody chat server for christ&#x27;s sake.
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kart23over 5 years ago
Tor breaks a lot of shit for me, and I dont even bother with captchas becuase it usually just flags me as a bot. So I dont think this is particularly surprising or out of the ordinary.<p>But yeah, discord used to be held in high standards by me and plenty of other gamers, but they have made it clear that they cannot handle tough situations, and dont really care about their userbase. Someone should start a privacy focused phone number as a service, acces to texts online and through an app. Allow people to basically have a spam phone number that they can give out to online services, but make people pay for it obviously. Like 10minutemail but long term and for texts only.
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gigel82over 5 years ago
Why the insistence on Tor? Just use a normal VPN. Tor exit nodes are limited in number, and the same IP probably ends up being used by thousands of people... I assume a lot of them use it for nefarious reasons so you just end up in the same bucket. To some extent VPN providers can get hit by this too, but it&#x27;s easy to just switch outbound IPs (for most of them). And if you want more than that, get a cheap VPS and install OpenVPN on it (you get your own unique exit IP address) - pay with bitcoin for the privacy aspect, also a good place to install an ad-filter, a secure DNS proxy (DOH) and so on.<p>I also don&#x27;t understand the 2FA point, that says nothing about your accounts&#x27; intentions.<p>The account history is an interesting point... if you have a long-standing history with no reports of inappropriate actions, they should factor that in somehow into their algos.
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Pfhreakover 5 years ago
&gt; I refuse to provide phone verification as I believe it is Discord&#x27;s fault for flagging my account...<p>&gt; I will be communicating with a couple communities with which I&#x27;m involved to explain that I am unable to use Discord<p>Does this person not have a phone? &#x27;Unable&#x27; seems like a stretch. If this person said, &quot;I don&#x27;t want to provide my phone number to Discord, so I&#x27;m going to stop using it&quot; I&#x27;d understand.<p>Their opening email also strikes a pretty aggressive tone -- calling Discord anal, insulting, &quot;spit in my face&quot; then goes on to make a number of demands of the company? I&#x27;m not super surprised the customer service rep on the other side didn&#x27;t go out of their way to help.
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elmerfudover 5 years ago
This is a typical response from service companies in the Internet age. They don&#x27;t care about truth, or what actually happened, the algorithm says you&#x27;re bad then you&#x27;re bad. There&#x27;s no human to appeal to, no human oversight of if their algorithm is right or wrong. They use another algorithm to check it, which tells them that you must be a bad actor.<p>I&#x27;ve had my own issues with Lyft that are similar. Banned from using their service even though I&#x27;ve never actually ordered a ride from them. Banned upon sign up. No review, no appeal, they don&#x27;t even follow their own terms of service.<p>I&#x27;m not one to normal advocate for government regulations and oversight, but there&#x27;s way to much consumer abuse for these Internet age services. Consumer protections can&#x27;t come soon enough.
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simonblackover 5 years ago
Social media gets less and less &quot;social&quot; every day.<p>My last remaining social media with input from me is HN. But I accept that, sooner or later, HN will be just as intrusive, aggressive, just plain nasty and censoring as the rest of them. And then it will be time for me to &quot;go completely dark&quot; as far as my contribution to the internet is concerned.
steve19over 5 years ago
I like that for privicy reasons they won&#x27;t tell you why you were banned. Whose privicy?<p>Does that just mean &quot;our black box NN has banned you and we won&#x27;t know or care why&quot; ?
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Havocover 5 years ago
Point 2 in particular rings true.<p>...If you can&#x27;t filter out your core user base with 2FA (!!!) from bullshit like recaptch then you&#x27;ve got real problems
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nullandvoidover 5 years ago
Strange I was just thinking about this issue the other day<p>Discord is a bit of a haven for spammers &#x2F; scammers with my own account having received messages from several hundred random accounts ( to be fair the user is normally deleted before I read the message )<p>As a discussion &#x2F; personal curiosity point how would the HN community reccomend discord handle this level of spam going forward?
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mostlysimilarover 5 years ago
I understand the frustration on the part of the user and I dislike that we&#x27;re all being forced to give up our anonymity to use these platforms... but also the tone of both emails was quite antagonistic. They may have had slightly better luck if they&#x27;d been friendlier and not attempted to school the Discord staff on how their app should behave.
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Prohiasover 5 years ago
If the only deal breaker is your phone number, this is going to be an issue for you moving into the future with many service providers. Consider leasing a number through Twilio, it will save you from frustration.
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jhggover 5 years ago
Hey. I work at Discord - and actually, this system is a thing I work on - and code my team wrote caused your account to be locked. If my team is doing a good job, you won&#x27;t notice us. If we&#x27;re doing a bad job, you might get some spam, or your account may be blocked for false positives.<p>Discord gets a lot of spam. We&#x27;ve disabled, and&#x2F;or challenged millions of accounts for trying to use our platform for unsolicited spam (trying to advertise their service, sex bots, crypto spam, etc...). Our anti-spam systems continue to evolve - just as the spammers who target our platform continue to evolve. The spam attacks against our platform vary in terms of how elaborate and skilled they are. Some are very obvious in terms of a detection perspective, and some are not. As such, we use a blend of signals, heuristics and machine learning algorithms to determine whether someone is spamming on our platform. Additionally, we look at where spam is originating from as an input to our heuristic.<p>One such source is TOR exit nodes - and as such, our system considers content created (DMs opened, etc..) from people using TOR exit nodes with more stringency than other sources. As such, if you are using TOR, it is definitely more likely that you may get challenged either via captcha, or phone verification. The system is definitely not perfect - and unfortunately in OP&#x27;s case, it flagged the account for phone verification.<p>To address the 3 demands in OP&#x27;s email:<p>&gt; 1. Discord&#x27;s anti-spam isn&#x27;t so anal,<p>I&#x27;m not entirely sure what this means, nor what actionable steps I can take. You are using TOR, a source of a great amount of spam&#x2F;attempted spam on our network.<p>&gt; 2. my account (and other accounts in good standing and with proper 2FA) is exempt from such checks<p>Having 2fa is not a strong signal as to whether or not an account is legitimate. It is very trivial to automate setting up 2fa on an account. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;pyauth&#x2F;pyotp" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;pyauth&#x2F;pyotp</a> can be used to both generate and validate 2fa codes. It&#x27;d be trivial to hook that up to the registration flow to enable 2fa - and if that was a way to &#x27;bypass&#x27; our anti-spam measures, it&#x27;d surely be exploited.<p>&gt; 3. I don&#x27;t have to solve a Google reCAPTCHA for an account I have taken every step to protect against bruteforcing. Using Tor is not a crime; don&#x27;t treat it as such.<p>Malicious actors constantly attempt to brute-force logins on our system - generally from public password dumps or other leaks. A lot of these brute-force attempts come from TOR, and other public proxies. In order to avoid information disclosure, we always captcha logins from these kinds of IPs, regardless of whether or not an account exists with the e-mail in question, whether the login credentials are correct, or there is 2fa enabled on the account. So, the &quot;captchas&quot; you notice are not really specific to your account, but rather, the origin of the login. Using TOR is not a crime, you are right - but - it&#x27;s also our responsibility to our users to make it reasonably hard for their accounts to get compromised on our platform (even if they don&#x27;t employ the best security practices - and reuse their passwords across the internet.)<p>Finally, I&#x27;d like to address: &quot;Discord has shown to be hostile toward FOSS and privacy for a while now&quot; and understand why that is.<p>As a company, we have tried to give back to open source software (either by financial sponsorship, or by contributing our bugfixes&#x2F;changes upstream.) We also attribute all open source projects we use in our software here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;discordapp.com&#x2F;licenses" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;discordapp.com&#x2F;licenses</a>. Additionally, we host many open source communities on our platform: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;discordapp.com&#x2F;open-source" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;discordapp.com&#x2F;open-source</a>. And finally, we try to open source software we make which may be useful to the eco-system in general: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;discordapp&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;discordapp&#x2F;</a>.<p>As for privacy, we&#x27;ve stated that we don&#x27;t sell your data. When you verify your phone number, we ONLY use it for the purpose of anti-spam, and it is never shared with anyone (aside from twilio, which sends you the SMS), especially for the purpose of financial gain. We&#x27;re pretty up front about how we make money (freemium model: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;discordapp.com&#x2F;nitro" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;discordapp.com&#x2F;nitro</a>, in-app commerce: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;discordapp.com&#x2F;sell-your-game" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;discordapp.com&#x2F;sell-your-game</a>). We provide privacy controls: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.discordapp.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;360004109911" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.discordapp.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;36000410991...</a>, and allow you to request an export of all the data we have stored on your account: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.discordapp.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;360004027692-Requesting-a-Copy-of-your-Data" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.discordapp.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;36000402769...</a><p>I know this reply won&#x27;t satisfy everyone, but hopefully, being truthful and upfront about this will help!
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Havocover 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve been waiting for this in a way.<p>This surge in adopt is pretty classic. It feels artificially hot &#x2F; running at too high temps if that makes sense.<p>I don&#x27;t see a superior product so don&#x27;t see this crashing, but Discord is going down only from here
buboardover 5 years ago
I want to be done with discord. The only value i find is the notifications when you have an @reply. Isn&#x27;t there someone that has done this for freenode or other IRC ?
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pfischover 5 years ago
1)You&#x27;re not a paying user<p>2)You use proxies&#x2F;tor which probably makes your concerns the concerns of 0.01% of the user-base.<p>Why should a company whose primary motive is to be profitable go so far out of their way for you, a non-paying client whose concerns represent basically none of the legitimate user-base?
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ricardbejaranoover 5 years ago
A private company has the right to choose where its traffic comes from, nothing surprising here.<p>There are legitimate reasons to block TOR traffic, and even if there where none, they&#x27;d still have the right to block anyone of their users.<p>There are plenty of alternatives, simply remember not to choose one ran by a private company again.
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