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Propositions Are Not Types (2018)

16 pointsby shalabhcover 5 years ago

10 comments

fauigerzigerkover 5 years ago
Initially I thought that this could be one of those automatically generated nonsensical but scientific sounding texts (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pdos.csail.mit.edu&#x2F;archive&#x2F;scigen&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pdos.csail.mit.edu&#x2F;archive&#x2F;scigen&#x2F;</a>)<p>But upon closer reading I now think it&#x27;s actually the reverse. The author apparently tried very hard to obfuscate the fact that he does have something meaningful to say by using utterly nonsensical sounding language.
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evdevover 5 years ago
The content of this whole wing of thinking is &quot;you have to have a brain-like system to have a brain-like thing&quot;. Which, fair. But what&#x27;s crazy-making about it is that people have decided this sort of insight says something about mathematics and metaphysics, which it <i>does not</i>.<p>For example, this:<p><i>This observation which they refer to as the “hard problem of content” or the “covariance-is-not-content principle” is that systems acting on covariance information, while acting on information, do not constitute content-bearing systems, because to bear content is to embody claims about how things stand, when in fact they merely embody capacities to affect the world.</i><p>is just complete nonsense, and to extract the charitable reading I put in quotes above, you have to read closely for paragraph after paragrah to see that what&#x27;s going on is the word &quot;content&quot; is reserved to mean &quot;things brain-like things do in a brain-like way to other brain-like things in a context built for brain-like things.&quot;<p>Again, okay! But: it&#x27;s <i>wildly</i> misleading to frame this as being about mathematical logic or the metaphysics of symbols, syntax and semantics.
urygaover 5 years ago
the title seems to be an unfortunate pun. from a quick look at the article, it&#x27;s mostly cogsci stuff, where &quot;proposition&quot; has a very different meaning from the one &quot;Propositions as types&quot; normally refers to:<p><i>&quot;The proposition is a concept borrowed by cognitive psychologists from linguists and logicians. The propostion is the most basic unit of meaning in a [mental] representation.&quot;</i> [1]<p>the article seems to mostly be talking about AI and the problems of making it &quot;actually refer to the real world&quot;. so i think title could be paraphrased as sth like &quot;Information about the world ([mental] propositions) is hard to represent with symbolic, digital things (types)&quot;.<p>[1](<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bcp.psych.ualberta.ca&#x2F;~mike&#x2F;Pearl_Street&#x2F;Dictionary&#x2F;contents&#x2F;P&#x2F;proposition.html#targetText=University%20of%20Alberta%20Dictionary%20of%20Cognitive%20Science%3A%20Proposition&amp;targetText=The%20proposition%20is%20a%20concept,judged%20either%20true%20or%20false" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bcp.psych.ualberta.ca&#x2F;~mike&#x2F;Pearl_Street&#x2F;Dictiona...</a>)
TheAsprngHackerover 5 years ago
I&#x27;m very confused about what this blog post is trying to argue. Most of what it discusses isn&#x27;t related to the Curry-Howard correspondence at all?<p>At the risk of sounding anti-intellectual, perhaps Orwell&#x27;s &quot;Politics and the English Language&quot; [0] is relevant here?<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.orwell.ru&#x2F;library&#x2F;essays&#x2F;politics&#x2F;english&#x2F;e_polit" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.orwell.ru&#x2F;library&#x2F;essays&#x2F;politics&#x2F;english&#x2F;e_polit</a>
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mcguireover 5 years ago
On what grounds is it argued that humanity operates on &quot;content&quot; grounds? If the stuff in my head operates purely on syntactic, formal, biological, chemical, physics methods, then the introduction of semantics or &quot;content&quot; is a red herring, even if you argue that multiple humans is the magic factor, it seems to me.
auggieroseover 5 years ago
Sorry. This text is absolutely useless to me. What is it trying to say? Don&#x27;t get it, although I agree that propositions are not necessarily types.
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lupireover 5 years ago
This nonsensicaly-titled article is somewhere between a rehash of &quot;the map is the not the territory &#x2F; one cannot pass from the informal to the formal by purely formal means&quot; and Sokal-esque gobbledygook.
otikikover 5 years ago
I couldn&#x27;t follow this. I&#x27;m usually capable of following technical papers. The jargon was thick as a jungle, it seems auto-generated. Use plainer language next time, please.
ppodover 5 years ago
Has the author read Brandom?
nathiasover 5 years ago
bad title, good article