I'm astonished and pleased to see they walked back the two worst things about the original Touch Bar MBPs - the lack of a physical Escape key, and the full-size left and right arrow keys.<p>The lack of physical function keys remains regrettable, and the Touch Bar is still no worthy substitute, but perhaps this is a sign that Apple is finally interested in listening to feedback from its long-term customer base, even if that feedback conflicts with the design team's desires.
It's hilarious to me that their own marketing image has two dongles plugged into the laptop so that the user can still use USB.<p>Apple please for the love of usability: please give me back USB. I AM the pro that you want to feature in every one of your marketing videos. I have a music studio in my house, I build interactive lighting installations for the biggest music festivals in the world, I build custom hardware controllers for fire effects that travel all over the country, I travel around the world teaching people how to build hardware devices, and when home I spend the majority of my time teaching and building software that people love; I use my laptop for over 10 hours a day.<p>All of this stuff uses USB. ALL OF IT. Having to carry around stupid dongles all the time is the biggest pain in my ass when I'm trying to do all of this stuff. PLEASE give me back USB, you can even call it the "stupid loser old crappy loser lame macbook for loser non pros". I don't care. This nonsense minimalist sleek design stuff is actually harming my productivity.
Can someone explain to me how Apple can justify only including a 720p FaceTime HD camera into the "the world’s best pro notebook"?<p>The last iPhone that had this FaceTime camera was the 6S, released in 2015. Since the iPhone 7 (2016) the phones have had at least a 1080p FaceTime camera. Given that FaceTime / Skype calls are such a common use case and rarely anyones uses external webcams anymore, why doesn't Apple use the existing camera system of the iPhone 11 for the MacBook?<p>Seriously, if I pay north of $4000 dollars for a laptop, why do I get an obsolete camera?
Would it materially harm a company with a trillion dollar market cap to offer a version of this without the touchbar (thus yielding a lower price), so people can afford to upgrade the soldered memory and NVMe drive?<p>Would it also harm them to make a version that didn't have soldered memory/NVMe drive?<p>Ultimately, this is why I switched to a Dell Latitude. Being user hostile to basic memory/disk replacement doesn't fly with me when spending $1500+ on a machine.<p>And if replacing either breaks the crypto chain - I don't need a black box T2 chip, I'll do my own disk encryption.
For others who might be wondering, this replaces the 15-inch MacBook Pro. There's a small increase in size (15 vs 16):<p>- Thickness: 1.55cm to 1.62cm (+0.7mm, +4.5%)<p>- Width: 34.93cm to 35.79cm (+0.86cm, +2.5%)<p>- Depth: 24.07cm to 24.59cm (+0.52cm, +2.2%)<p>- Weight: 1.83kg to 2.0kg (+170gr, +9.3%)<p>The display alone is ~1.3cm wider (and ~0.7cm higher), so there was a small reduction in bezel sizes, allowing the screen to grow more than the rest of the hardware.
Holy heck, they re-added a physical escape key. That's a huge improvement. a slight shame they didn't just move the touchbar up and re-add the F key row too, but it is a good compromise and improvement regardless.<p>This could be the one a lot of people have been waiting for if the new switches/design pans out.<p>PS - Although I might be an unusual demographic as I touch type and wouldn't use the touchbar regardless (since I look at the screen, not the backs of my hands while I interact with a Mac).
64GB RAM is like "hallelujah". Doing enterprise dev with Docker + Java is pretty horrible with 16GB on my 2017 MBP.<p>The fact that this review didn't even once mention the fact that this machine is now thicker & bigger and yet they didn't add any useful ports back in is amazing.<p>I still hate that the 2017 one I have has only USB-C + Headphone jack. I appreciate that it still has the headphone jack.<p>But at our office we all got OWC Thunderbolt 3 Docks @ $300/desk and the whole experience sucks.
This is Apple going all in on pro for this laptop.<p>The display is fantastic all around, 64 GB of ram, 8 GB of DDR6 VRAM, 8 cores, biggest battery FAA will allow on planes, 8 TB SSD, etc.<p>This will also be able to connect to Apple's upcoming 6K 32-inch display.<p>This is a very impressive update all around and it shows Apple putting a lot of space between their pro laptops and the MBA and iPad Pro now. The lineup is starting to make a lot of sense again.
11 years ago I bought a 15” MacBook Pro, the first model year with the unibody design. I’m still using it almost every day for web browsing, watching videos, editing documents, etc.<p>In 2008, it cost $2,400. The new 16” released today costs... $2,400.
Imagine they offered the same configuration with and without TouchBar, with the model with TouchBar costing $400 more - how many people would choose the model with? I bet less than 5%.<p>Is Apple afraid to offer this because it clearly would show that almost no one is ready to pay for it?<p>Even from this audience, who of you would be willing to pay the premium for the TouchBar?
John Gruber’s review<p><a href="https://daringfireball.net/" rel="nofollow">https://daringfireball.net/</a><p>And before everyone accuses him of being an Apple fanboy and biased, there is no disputing that he is very much a keyboard snob. He hated the last generation keyboard and he called it out during his initial review. He also famously still prefers an old ADB Apple Keyboard and he never bought a laptop with the old one.<p>He’s also linked to a lot of articles criticizing it.<p>If he praises it, I think you can trust him.<p>Edit:<p>And Marco Arment’s review. He’s never pulled punches when it comes to Apple’s hardware, their development tools, or the quality of the OS frameworks. He’s gushing over the review unit.<p><a href="https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16" rel="nofollow">https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16</a>
A co-worker is really impressed with all the improvements, but they seem to mostly be improvements over previous poor ideas from Apple, that other brands already had or never abandoned.<p>I admit, a 16" screen in a 15" body sounds really nice. But most of this is stuff other brands already had.
I love the USB C/Thunderbolt 3 connector on my Macbook. I just have a single cable going into my mac from the display which also has the keyboard and mouse connected to it. The single cable does charging, display and peripherals.<p>For work, I have this display: LG 5K2k (<a href="https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-34WK95U-W-ultrawide-monitor" rel="nofollow">https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-34WK95U-W-ultrawide-monito...</a>)<p>For a cheaper setup at home: LG 27inch USB C Monitor(<a href="https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27UK850-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor" rel="nofollow">https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27UK850-W-4k-uhd-led-monit...</a>)
People make a lot of noise about the missing function keys. But the keys that I miss the most on my 2018 Macbook Pro are the "E" and "SHIFT" keys.
As much as I appreciate Apple's U turn on the idiotic design of the butterfly keyboard switches, I still:<p>- cannot even begin to understand why these things lack an important usability feature like MegSafe: there is really absolutely no reason why it cannot coexist with the ThunderBolt I/O (4 TB ports, one MegSafe: charge it however the heck you want).<p>- find the presence of the castrated TouchBar an offense to users. It seems they just want to shove it down our throats whether we want it or not.
Just make it optional: I'm sure that there are certain users out there that love it but every single peer of mine [1] hates the sole idea of something like that.<p>[1] I'm a software guy in the Valley
It's amazing to see such a positive response to such weak sauce with the touchbar. Our expectations really have fallen through the floor. There is no reason the escape key needs to be physical that doesn't also apply to the function keys. So why has Apple admitted the touchbar doesn't work, but still forces you to use it for F keys. With this form factor it wouldn't have been difficult to have function keys as well as a touchbar- but Apple don't seem interested in actually solving this problem.<p>I'm very tired of having to settle for serious shortcomings in what used to be such a great product.
Am I the only one that is scared at the prospect of losing physical keys for changing volume and brightness? I do this all the time, changing volume up/down during conference calls, adjusting the brightness when working late at night. Can you even map the Touch-bar to have "keys" for these instead of the slider which seems way less precise and direct? Genuinely asking since I'm still on 2014 MBP.
I'm pleasantly surprised that Apple decided to implement a physical escape key, the inverted "T" arrangement along with redoing the keyboard.<p>While I don't know if we should be applauding Apple so heavily, it's good to see that they "listened" to customer feedback and made these changes. I know that I'll be looking forward to getting one after my 2015 MBP gives out.
So the top of the line specs get you:<p>* 2.4GHz 8‑core 9th‑generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz<p>* 64GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory<p>* AMD Radeon Pro 5500M with 8GB of GDDR6 memory<p>* 8TB SSD storage<p>for $6099USD.
I wonder how it will handle the thermals.
"Built‑in 100‑watt‑hour lithium‑polymer battery"<p>That is quite respectable! As large battery as possible, instead of saving the few grams or cubic millimeters.<p>I'm comparing this to for example Lenovo, which seems to like coming up with imaginary battery life promises ("The T490 delivers up to 16.1 hours of battery life") and then cutting the actual battery to minimum.
> Featuring a new Magic Keyboard with a redesigned scissor mechanism and 1mm travel for a more satisfying key feel, the 16-inch MacBook Pro delivers the best typing experience ever in a Mac notebook.<p>Feels like they claim "best typing experience" every time they release a new laptop.
While it's nice to see an opinionated company like Apple admit fault and revert to what people want, I wonder if this move is too late for many of those that decided to move away from Apple?<p>Years ago, I switched to a Surface Book, and while I'm tempted to go back for this MBP I reckon that a Surface Book update would be enough to kill any desire for the Mac range. While Apple stagnated, many of the high-end manufacturers caught up.
I wish it had one USB-A. I plug in a mechanical keyboard, and when a job provided the previous macbook pro, I managed to lose or break a dongle about once a month.
Marco posted an update earlier - <a href="https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16" rel="nofollow">https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16</a>
I'm not against spending money on essential tools of the trade that you keep for years but carrying around a super expensive laptop makes me feel really nervous e.g. it could get stolen, dropped, get wet in the rain, drinks spilt on it.<p>When I don't need the extra power, I think I'd rather travel with an easy to replace $900 laptop than a $3,000 one for ease of mind.
I am very happy about this and the Mac Pro -- it seems like Apple is finally admitting where it has room for improvement in hardware.<p>Which, of course, makes me wonder whether they will ever abandon their hubris with software. There really ought to be a Rosetta-style compatibility layer for 32-bit and GC apps in macOS. Sadly, I don't think that will ever happen. Anyone know whether it's possible to install Mojave on one of these?<p>I've been a Mac user for thirteen years this month. I'm not sure I can buy another one.
RAM and HD are still soldered down, which means you have to decide up front how much you want <i>and</i> you have to pay the 3x-4x Apple markup on both. These are both dealbreakers for me, and the continuing inadequate port situation just seals the deal. It's a no.
Is it me or this laptop is eye-wateringly expensive? I'm no Mac noob but it's getting a little hard to justify the expense to stay in the ecosystem.
This is too irresistible not to upgrade. I'm more interested in CPU/Memory and the Graphic card bump is only $100. In total, it should cost $3.900 excluding taxes (or $2.500 if I "trade in" my current machine). Looking at the competition, a ThinkPad P53 Mobile Workstation with the 2.3Ghz processor / 32GB of RAM will cost $3.759.<p>I think the pricing is <i>very</i> competitive, given that the ThinkPad is a giant box. So even if Lenovo lowers its price in the next iteration of its ThinkPad, the MacbookPro will quite match up.<p>Kudos for Apple for doing this!
Is anyone else wondering about that 8TB SSD bit? Unless they have four M.2 slots which I doubt they must use 4TB SSDs and that'd be QLC which sucks.
I had the displeasure to have a quick go on a new Macbook Air.<p>I decided after some testing that I prefer the keyboard on my calculator.<p>Then I had to ask what the point was of making a laptop so thin that it can't have any real ports, then having to carry a bag full of adapters?<p>I'll stick with my Thinkpad T480
Only a few more iterations before we have the complete row of Fn Keys!<p>That said, I'm glad they bumped up the base to 512GB and the keyboard is improved.
I loved the marketing copy in the "New Magic Keyboard" section...<p>Wow! A <i>physical</i> escape key?!? A scissor mechanism?!? Will the innovation ever cease?!!?!<p>But more seriously, kudos to them for the full 180 fix.<p>(Well, I know some hate the existence of the Touch Bar, but I think it has very interesting potential which perhaps could be realized with its major fatal flaw finally fixed.)
If this holds up, then man... am I happy.<p>I ran the gamut looking for comparable laptops recently in an effort to figure out what I'd do if they didn't get it together, and the options really vary and nothing feels as nice.
It's really something that one of the first promotional photos on the page is a macbook hooked up to audio gear through daisy-chained dongles and adapters instead of just a regular USB or ethernet cable like it would've been in the old days. The price of thin.
The big problem with the Touch Bar for me is the difficulty building muscle memory because it's only used part of the time. I have to learn 2 workflows "Docked" and roving. Since for me I spend so much more time docked, the Touch Bar patterns never get added to my muscle memory. If there was a Touch Bar based external keyboard I would at least have the chance to try it full time.
This is a little tangential, but does anybody find it weird that, even on desktop, the article seems hyperoptimized for mobile? The huge margins made it feel like I was reading on a phone emulator instead of on a desktop.
I was so hoping for a constant bezel width. Unfortunately the top bezel is still a lot larger than the side ones. I know it's because of the camera, but that makes for an awkward looking device…
Made a special point to request an Air instead of a Pro when I started my new job recently. Office manager was confused and insisted everyone else was using Pros but I stayed strong. No regrets.
In the UK and the `Buy` button redirects to a not found page.<p><a href="https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/go/macbook_pro/select" rel="nofollow">https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/go/macbook_pro/select</a> this 404s for me.
As a person burned by the "improved" 2018 keyboard, I'd wait a couple months to see how sensitive to dust this one is.<p>It's not the typing experience that was the main problem with the previous keyboard, it was that you couldn't use the laptop outdoors...
MKBHD already has an overview video on this: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDAv4qOU_04" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDAv4qOU_04</a> (with apparently real hardware).
The line about the “Apple-designed rubber dome” sticks out. Why even say that? Did Apple not design the other bits? My sympathy for whomever over there is trying to navigate the whole keyboard situation and messaging.
It is unfortunate to see the jump from 16 GB to 32 GB of ram cost so much. I realize this isn't anything new for Apple, but I would have hoped for the base 16-inch model to have 32 GB at this point.
After much deliberation, I bought a 2017 13" MBP, upspecced to 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM. While I've not had a complete failure from the keyboard, it did need looking at at the Apple Store when it also had the entire display assembly replaced because the keyboard had damaged the screen - despite me looking after it well, always putting it in a soft slip case and then a laptop bag.<p>While I've liked some elements of the design, it's not (to me) a Pro piece of kit, and I've sine replaced it with a 2016 15" MBP which is much better built and doesn't need extra dongles to connect to everyday devices (and has magsafe, which is the best piece of design I've seen in many years).<p>Given this performance, I'll never buy a new Macbook again - particularly given all the issues about thermal throttling, battery life and indeed the way that macOS seems now to be going.<p>Don't get me wrong, there are elements of the 2017 MBP that I love - it looks amazing, the screen is fantastic and it's just so precisely made. But the lack of ports, the lack of ruggedness, the keyboard and the performance outweigh any 'look, shiny!' feeling I have about it - so much so that I've not sold it because I feel like I'm stitching the buyer up - even though they've not held their price compared to previous models, which shows that people know this to be the case, and the keyboard still has the 4 year warranty in place.
OMG, I'm very depressed as a user who loves the butterfly mechanism. I hate the wobbly feeling that the scissor mechanism produces. Apple didn't need to return to the scissor mechanism, it should have reiterated the design. I'm very disappointed that Apple just gave up & used the safe way of regressing back.<p>It feels like Apple is losing the spirit of doing things itself, whether other people dislikes it. Apple is more and more becoming a usual company that just does what consumers demands. And I'm sad with that.
I simply don't get it. NH reader base are usually well versed in technology and as such we should expect them to get some attitude towards their computer.<p>We have basically a computer which will never allow you to install what you want except if that software is signed by apple in a process taking 1 minute and said to garantee an extra level of security (how this process is able to check on any security issue in 1 minute is beyond my understanding) to user.<p>So they simply lose the ability to install anhthing not signed by apple. Old programs, a ton of open source programs. If Apple decide tomorrow to stop its signin program (and it will happen soon or later), user will be basically stuck with a computer limited to install Mac Appstore Software.<p>This is as significant as the fact there was a nodejs issue regarding the inability of the team behind it to distribute new release of nodejs because apple server simply refused to sign the package that contained the binary.<p>Apple computers are destined to become giant iPhone once apple decide to ditch apple notarization program, and the user will be leftwith absolutelly no control of what's happen in their computer like what is the case in ios device.<p>How someone with technical education can be satisfied with such scenario is beyond me. AApple computer are simply becoming Grandma computer.
The "Inverted-T" arrow keys here are <i>way</i> better than the previous version with full-height Left/Right but half-height Up/Down.<p>But I've always preferred the "6-key" layout, as seen on ThinkPads. Half-height arrow keys, but then an additional key on top of both Left and Right.<p>Commonly marked as Page Up / Page Down, but easily reconfigurable to 2 additional arbitrary hotkeys.<p>Looks nice and symmetrical enough for Apple. Wish they would use it.
I'm sure they're still rolling this out.. the "buy" button on the MacBook page leads to "Page Not Found".[0] Unfortunate, because I've been waiting for the 16-inch ever since the first rumor came up..<p>[0] <a href="https://www.apple.com/us/shop/go/macbook_pro/select" rel="nofollow">https://www.apple.com/us/shop/go/macbook_pro/select</a>
I have a one year old 15” that I’m super bummed about now. It’s a pretty powerful machine w/ 32gb of ram but I wish I could have waited for this.<p>Problems I currently have that are annoying:<p>- I miss the 13” air form factor a lot. I knew it would be a trade off for the performance, but using this beast anywhere but on a desk is pretty tough. On a plane you need a first class seat to open it. It gets super super hot with most workloads.<p>- there is an obnoxious electrical whine coming from the mainboard and it might be the SSD. Lots of videos on YouTube show that the ssd actually makes a lot of noise and almost sounds like it’s a physical disk. Poor manufacturing from Toshiba.<p>I guess that’s really it. I just wish I could use it on the couch without burning my thighs. I don’t have any qualms with the keyboard or touchbar. I have caps lock remapped to escape so that doesn’t bug me. Also the touchbar is in “old school mode” or whatever so it looks like a regular function key bar on a non touchbar Mac.
Genuinely curious, why did so many developers ask for the return of the physical Escape key when you could easily re-map it to caps lock? Before this was an officially supported option, I always hated having to do big hand-shimmies every time I needed to press the escape key, which is quite often for programs like vim!
I wonder if they fixed the trackpad? The previous trackpad's palm rejection never worked properly.<p>It always surprised me how broken the palm rejection was on the recent MacBook Pro since previous models (2012-2015) running the same macOS version had no such issues; moreover, palm rejection also works fine on the iPad and iPhone.
I'm amazed how accurate the rumour mill is in Shenzhen.<p>First heard about it back in March, when all OEMs were scrambling to make lookalike products before Apple's release.<p>Would be interesting to know if they went back to Samsung panels from LG. I remember Samsung salesmen were pushing hard their new 500 and 600 nit panels a year ago.
Funny enough I just replaced my MBP 15 with a Sager notebook due to two of the issues they seem to have addressed with this release. First and foremost was lack of ram I have to virtualize a lot of specialty hardware for one of my clients so that I can simulate a total environment on a single machine. There can literally be 1000's of nodes running custom embedded systems. 16GB was stretching it on my last MBP and 32 just got me back in the game with my 15. I really needed 64GB and my new Sager has the ability to go to 128GB.<p>The second was the move away from the 17 MBP I know they are not popular and I know the reasons for killing it, but I develop on the road a lot and the extra screen space helps when a second monitor is not practical.<p>Had this been out 6 months ago I may have reconsidered my switch to a PC. That being said I am happy with my switch.
Pricing is shot across the bow to Lenovo: higher end configs of Carbon X1 Extreme have similar prices, even though they aren't really comparable in terms of brand recognition and in some aspects of hardware quality. Good. Then there's also the fact that X1 Extreme is troublesome when it comes to Linux compatibility, so if you want a proper Unix-like experience, Mac is still one of the best options, although Microsoft is really trying nowadays. If someone from Lenovo is reading this: I like Carbon X1. I'd buy X1 Extreme if it ran Linux as well as plain X1 does. I'm not price sensitive. But Windows is not really viable for me when it comes to professional use.<p>Looks like Apple will be getting another $3K or so of my money 6 months from now after other people beta test the new MBP for bugs.
> You can spec this machine up to 64GB of RAM and 8TB (not a typo) of storage on the SSD. That’s just a massive amount of storage — and it will cost $6,099 to get a fully loaded 16-inch MacBook Pro.<p>Wow, that is a lot of computer. Even the base model is 16gb and 512gb.
"The 16-inch MacBook Pro features a new Magic Keyboard with a refined scissor mechanism that delivers 1mm of key travel and a stable key feel, as well as an Apple-designed rubber dome that stores more potential energy for a responsive key press"<p>Wow..
"Today, Apple also announced that the all-new Mac Pro"<p>"Mac Pro starts at $5,999 and Pro Display XDR starts at $4,999. Both will be available to order in December through apple.com."<p>They keep announcing it, yet you still can't buy it. I wonder why.
> Inverted-T arrow keys! A millimeter of key travel!<p>Which is still quite poor - Thinkpads offer between 1.3 to 1.9mm of travel depending on the model. It is surprising that a $1Trillion computer hardware company cannot design the best keyboard in the world while tiny Lenovo seems to have done much better.<p>Why would a "pro" user care more thinness and form than the usability of the primary input mechanism?<p>Add: It's not merely the travel. Lenovo keyboards are so slightly concave which offer perceivably better support for finger tips. The key surface also has a rougher texture instead of being flat, smooth and glossy, which I hope more manufacturers will emulate.
I'm not a fan of Apple but there are a few things I like of this laptop. Starting with the most important:<p>- It's got no number pad, so the screen, the keyboard and the touch pad are aligned with the nose of the user, which doesn't have to shift the laptop to the right to work and have 2/3 of the screen to his/her right.<p>- It's got a slightly larger screen than my HP ZBook but it's narrower and lighter: 14.09 inches (35.79 cm) and 4.3 pounds (2.0 kg)<p>- It can go up to 8 TB of storage and 64 GB of RAM (but there are laptops with 128 GB in 2019).<p>I didn't investigate if it can be upgraded (RAM and SSD) or if everything is soldered.
Wow! The "New Magic Keyboard." I wonder what it is. Oh, wait, it's the old scissor keyboard. "Largest Retina display ever." With 226ppi... But the Esc key is back! I'm so excited! /s
I bought one. If they hadn’t produced this I would have walked on Apple hardware. The only thing that is jaw dropping to me: the price tag.<p>I’m surprised to not see people talking about it in the comments. 3900 US without Apple care? Holy god. I bought the max spec or close to it in 2015 for 800+$ less. The differences are negligible, and then I spent an additional 200$ on dongles I don’t want. I’m probably not done. When all was said and done I spent 4600$ on this machine. I make my living on a computer and I need the pro part of the MacBook Pro, but it is still a really jaw dropping price for what it is.
How long until they walk back the touchbar though? I figure if it was useful to anyone it would be cloned by now. I cant imagine they're holding onto that feature for any other reason than to save face.
Go from 16GB to 32GB of RAM and 1TB to 2TB and you have over $800 in upgrades.<p>I put 16GB in my 2013 Mac Book Pro. The extra RAM is key to getting a few more years of use.<p>An external SSD would be fine but Mac laptops never have enough ports.
I'm a bit surprised no one has talked about the price. Starting at 2400$US? That's... a lot.<p>For anyone who is going to use this as their primary computer, the real price is 2800$.<p>That's a lot... Who is the end consumer here? Folks who are computer illiterate and want 'the best' laptop apple has to offer?<p>Laptops promote poor posture, can't match desktop speeds and are expensive! Their use-case to me is limited to business people who hop from meeting to meeting all day, but then you don't need the horsepower and will be fine with a 500$ option.
I am really stoked about this. I am typing this on a 15 inch MB Pro. I survived the keyboard issues by not buying a new MB Pro.<p>There is always this lurking sense that if my existing MB Pro dies, that I would have to transition to something with a defect.<p>This new model has piqued my interest. I am excited to see that it has a bump in memory. That has always been something that has not sat well with me. Newer software demanding more and more memory while models of the MB Pro has been released with no increases in RAM.
The lack of a larger screen size coupled with the keyboard deficiencies are what drove me away from macOS to various linux distros.<p>While I'm immensely happy with my new OS - a lot more could be said about the hardware ( especially when running larger screens on pc that just can't keep up battery wise ).<p>This is a phenomenal step in the right direction, but one that comes too late for me. At this point I can't begin to consider jumping back until macOS sees some substantial improvements.
Related: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21523736" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21523736</a><p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21526058" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21526058</a> has few comments but points to a long interview with Phil Schiller that has some interesting things but (brace yourself) says basically nothing about the touch bar.
This looks really nice and I want one, but 1mm of key travel doesn't seem like something to brag about. I know it's a personal preference thing, but 1mm ?
Those full sized arrows on current 15” MacBooks were driving me crazy! It’s great to see them put half sized left and right arrows back! I’ll Definitely b buying it
The current MacBook pros are a menace for the sounds those keyboards make alone.<p>I was stunned that no one at Apple heard that ridiculously obnoxious CLACK CLACK CLACKING and didn't think we would do something about that.<p>Does anyone inside Apple know how that disaster of a keyboard came to be? How did logic and rationality not see it turfed the moment it was trialled?<p>(This new keyboard claims to be quieter. Although calling it "magic" is just so pretentious and so.. Apple)
I like it, finally Apple although I’ll still wait for the 13” to downsize (the touchbar is still just an excuse to drive the price up.)<p>The real issue here is the intel chip. New vulnerabilities have just been found and the company isn’t addressing them so I’m starting to question the platform.<p>What about an AMD machine. It would be cooler, slower yet un-throttled so about the same performance. But it wouldn’t be a sitting duck.
Off topic, but can someone explain to my why their releases start this way:<p>> Cupertino, California — Apple today unveiled an all-new 16-inch MacBook Pro — the world’s best pro notebook<p>It’s on apple.com for fuck’s sake and if you don’t know that Apple is based in California, do you really care? Why do they write this stuff as if it’s some other entity writing about Apple as opposed to “today we are pleased to announce...”?
I've been scared away from Apple for some time. It started with the touch function keys, then the butterfly keyboard, reducing ports, reducing the machine to near throw-away status when the warranty is up, while remaining very expensive. Never say never but I don't see anything here worth pulling me back, when their are PC laptops that could do the job just as good, perhaps better.
For those of you mentioning the esc key, I suggest mapping capslock to esc, I've been doing that for years now (both Linux and Mac) and it's awesome. Except when you're using someone else's computer and constantly turn capslock on and off...<p>Edit: You can do this natively since Mojave(?) in the keyboard settings without having to resort to something like Karabiner.
I'm still using the last Macbook Pro without a touchbar, and plan on not upgrading until either this dies, or Apple decide to make a laptop with a full keyboard. If it dies before that, it's Hackintosh or Linux time.<p>It honestly astounds me that the device that has traditionally been adopted most by developers has lost so much of what developers need in favour of gimmicks.
Boy, every new Apple laptop release people harp endlessly about the cost.<p>Look, people, Apple high-end laptops generally cost $3-4K. And if you think that's high, you're forgetting that (in many of our cases) you're running your whole business on that.<p>$3-4K every couple of years should be in the noise. Cost relative to other laptops has little meaning, if you want high-end Apple gear.
I've been holding onto my 2015 MacBook pro now for ages, waiting and waiting.<p>I'd like to see the touchbar disappear completely, and the function keys return - but the real escape key and no butterfly keyboard is enough of a change that I think I can finally buy another MacBook!!<p>It was definitely off the cards for a few years there, and I was starting to wonder what I was going to do!
I think my question will be ports. The article didn't say what they broke there. Will it only support Bluetooth headphones? Bluetooth monitors? No USB? No SD card slot?<p>Especially for a 16" laptop, I'd like something without a mess of dongles and adapters. The 2015 15" Macbook was pretty good in this department, but Apple is on a port-cutting rampage.
Hmm, so they improved the keyboard? Kinda makes me wish I'd waited a bit longer to buy a MacBook Pro, since I think I would have preferred this version of the keyboard to the one on the version I'm using right now.<p>Still, the important thing is that Apple seemingly listened to feedback. Too many double down on bad decisions regardless of feedback.
I have a TouchBar MacBook and I was pretty peeved about the escape key at first, but once I remapped the caps lock key to escape I never looked back. The caps lock key is worthless anyway.<p>That said, the only cool use for the TouchBar that I've noted is with iTerm2. Changing terminal colors on the fly from the TouchBar is actually kinda nifty.
I’m totally not regretting upgrading to this year’s 15 inch model.<p>Just a huge bit.<p>Apple do take your current model back for credit but given I’ll only get 900 pounds for it (presumably much more in the USA!) I guess I’ll stick to it for now. I’d be happy to pay a few hundreds for the upgrade; it’s unjustifiable to upgrade for full price minus a 900 pound discount.
The Touch Bar is still there and horrible. The price on the 16" model is downright insane. Add some customizations past the bare bottom and you are up in the stratosphere.<p>I'll be sticking with my 13" 2015 MBP for the foreseeable future. I'll just build up a home machine that I can log into and do some heavier workloads on.
Looks pretty good, I think I'll wait until the new microled displays though.<p>The thermal design updates are welcome, that was seriously crippling previous Macbook Pros.<p>I'd love to know how long and what clock rate the 8-core 16" MBP can sustain multi-core workloads running at 100% core utilisation. My guess is for a minute or so at 3.5ghz+.
Windows development -- specially if you develop with a terminal editor -- has become very feasible with WSL.<p>I was scared away from Apple by the keyboards and found a new dev home in Windows. I've tried to go back for personal projects, but it's just too much conversion for very little compensation.<p>I think I'm done with Apple macs
I agree that the improvements like the ESC key and 16" screen are good things.<p>But is it strange to anyone else that a company that prides itself on being innovative and motto is "think different" is parading around a screen size change and a keyboard regression as the biggest selling points for a product launch?
The screen resolution of 3072x1920 (224.6ppi) is triple 1024x640.<p>Apple states that it also scales to<p><pre><code> • 1920x1200 (3:5)
• 1680x1050 (48:25)
• 1280x800 (12:5)
</code></pre>
which obviously are all fractions. With the small pixel size (0.1122mm) it probably doesn't matter that much.<p>The 16" display has a 16:10 aspect ratio.
It's nice to see Apple fixing their keyboard issues (they don't normally bow to customer pressure).<p>I just wish they would allow Linux to be installed natively on it (with supported touchbar drivers, etc.).<p>And a small part of me secretly wants Apple to release a MBP with a TrackPoint, just to see people's reactions ;-)
It just seems like, for people who aren't wealthy, it might make more sense to buy a gaming laptop and get very close to or better specs/performance and save $500 or maybe even $1000.
Although I guess the reason people waste money like that is partly just to prove they can waste money.
Too little too late. By now, Apple has lost me. The only Apple HW I might (theoretically) still buy is a Mac Pro, but not in practice, since you can't get it with a 32-bit capable OS any more. So fuck Apple. I'll have to get Windoze hardware and put a BSD Unix on it.
Sweet, a MBP that lives up to the name again. Congrats on listening to your customers, Apple. Too bad for me, I gave in and 'upgraded' my 2011 to a top of the line used 2015 MBP about six months ago, now I kinda want this new one. Ah well
Interesting that the tag line is "world's best". I feel as though they usually go with something more quantitative like "fastest" or "most powerful", etc. "Best" obviously being completely subjective.
The 17" Pro from around 2011 was the world's best pro notebook. The things are still pretty capable beasts, even today.<p>Apple could do well to dust off that design, toss in an updated processor, and put whatever price tag they wanted on it.
Big plus to regain the Escape key.<p>Hopefully the new keyboard is reliable.<p>The Touch Bar is forgettable and a row of physical function keys would be an improvement. I don't know any "pro" user who likes the Touch Bar or who wants to look down at the keys when typing or interact with a microscopic touch screen.<p>Still puzzled by the lack of ports for a pro laptop. It's 16" with a huge body, not particularly thin or light, and they couldn't add two USB-A, SD slot, HDMI? The age of a dozen dongles continues.<p>64GB RAM option is a big plus, though the prices are 2x-3x market.<p>Presumably the SSD is still soldered onboard, which basically makes these unrepairable and disposable premium priced laptops.<p>Overall far better than what it replaced, but still missing some key features from the 2015 MBP line which remains the best Mac laptop ever made.<p>Will be interesting to see if they ditch the 13" and move to a 14" with similar specs.
I didn't have a touchbar but wouldn't the escape key have been the easiest non-physical key to reach without looking, due to its indexed location? Or was the problem that it wasn't always exposed by the software?
Got my 2019 top spec but then revert to get a macbook old stock for daily use. The macbook 12 inch is great. Work nicely with my ipad. Can’t do two screen even the 2nd screen did show. But all is fine. The 15 cold feet.
Still wish it had a touch screen. The physical escape key is nice. The fact I can hackintosh a touch screen dell xps to see if my app's gestures work etc is just so crazy why they won't give in.
Why has Apple gone with Touch ID on Macs, while moving to Face ID on iOS devices?<p>Is there some technical reason why Face ID isn't a good fit? I can't see cost being an issue, nor physical space for the sensor.
With the 15" MBP being EOLed into a 16", it's hard not to wonder if the 13.3" displays might become 14". Makes a big difference at the size, as the X1 Carbon is able to prove.
“ The new Magic Keyboard also features a physical Escape key” - really? It was there as a physical escape key, Apple removed it, put it back in and called it, wait for it ... a physical Escape Key.
I'm curious why this memory controller that supports 64 Gigs would not have made it into the recent refresh of the 15" MBP. Is this related to the new thermal design they mentioned maybe?
I'm curious why the memory controller in that supports 64 Gigs would not have made it into the recent refresh of 15" MBP. Is this related to the new thermal design they mentioned maybe?
> The 16-inch MacBook Pro features a new Magic Keyboard with a refined scissor mechanism<p>Probably one of the most important features, even if mentioned in passing, given the problems of the butterfly mechanism.
Is the form factor the same as 15" Macbook Pro or is this bigger? Did Apple simply reduce bezels on the sides of the screen to fit 16" display instead of the standard 15"?
The photos in the article do show the physical escape key but do not show the sides of the laptop where the ports would be. I hope that it has a MagSafe charge adapter and an HDMI port.
I was thinking to buy that line of MB, but since September I fully switched to Linux after being OSX user for the last 14 years. I ditched my mbp for a Dell XPS 7390 (latest model, 16GB RAM, i7 10th). Me and my girl couldn't be happier.<p>Me, because I ditched that monopolistic machine, which you can't fully enjoy if you are not in Apple's ecosystem. The only Apple machine I have is macbook. Even my desktop was a hackintosh. As a developer Linux gave me extreme freedom. The only thing I miss, is the touchpad but I learned to live without it.<p>My girl because I gave her my Macbook Pro 2015 and moved away from windows, win-win situation, the machine will just "work"
As the keyboard replacement program starts ending next year for the earliest lemons it will be interesting to see if Apple voluntarily recalls and replaces anything with these.
About bloody time, Apple.<p>Too bad I bought a ThinkPad back in June after THREE YEARS of ESC'less computing. This after almost two decades of not even looking at non-Mac machines.
Would it KILL them to build a regular keyboard with function keys? It's a $100 part...<p>I can't be the only software engineer who refuses to buy it on this one major issue.
Hello, 2019!<p>Real talk, if I could easily do my own repairs, and HW replacements on it, I would get it.<p>Typed on the flawless keyboard of my insanely awesome, truly immersive, MBP 17" Mid 2010.
Something I found hilarious:<p>I just clicked through to the purchasing page, and at the top there is this:<p>"Get a refund of up to $2530 when you trade in an eligible computer, or recycle it for free.*"<p>If you click it, it asks you to choose if your trade in was made by Apple, or "Other" - if you select "Other", it says:<p>"Based on what you’ve told us, your computer is ready to recycle"<p>Beneath, not so hilariously, there was:<p>"It’s a big win for the planet.
Recycling your device helps replenish resources and drive innovation."<p>Come on, this is marketing spin at it's worst, and not the kind of thing I'd expect a "hipster" company like Apple to say!
Why does everyone seem grateful that they kept the headphone jack? Where did Apple give the impression that they would remove it from a more stationary device?
I checked my trade in value for my 2018 MBP. $1130. Come to think of it, my 15 inch is actually pretty big, so I'll wait to get the next generation.
My first laptop was an Apple PowerBook 140 and I've owned a succession of Mac laptops since then (Wallstreet, G4 Aluminum, 2012 & 2017 Macbook Pro) and yet I'm typing this on a Surface Pro because I had such a poor experience with the 2017 Macbook Pro that I'll probably never go back. That keyboard was such junk that I literally feel like Apple robbed me. I really regret not returning the computer within the two week window for a full refund. I realize this rant isn't very productive but I still hope the ghost of Steve Jobs reads it.
"Bigger, better, and more broken than ever before."<p>(Disclosure: My 2017 MBP has been repaired 8x and replaced 1x. My iPhone repaired 1x and replaced 1x.)
So Apple made a decent MacBook Pro again. Good. But they still haven't made things right for the lemon they sold me. My keyboard is still not working, even after I handed it in for repair twice. Now I'm expected to shell out a few more grand just to have a working f key, and Apple is not even willing to acknowledge that they for years sold faulty products to gullible idiots like me.<p>Would it really hurt their octibajillion dollar valuation too much to just make things right for the customers who got shafted by their broken keyboard design?
I find it bizarre that Apple hasn't cottoned on to the market for 14" laptops yet.<p>Easily the best tradeoff for me between screensize and carry-ability.
> 96W USB‑C Power Adapter<p>That's a big deal for everyone. I do not know why it's not 100W but I will take what I can get. You see, Apple landing on 87W for their USB C adapter led to a lot of third party chargers also being 87W (or if multiple ports then one maxing out there) which is very frustrating to those who need more oomph. There's something to be said about education in the US when you need to explain to people a higher wattage charger doesn't damage their equipment...
for whatever reason wishing for anything different always gets downvotes for Apple.<p>I like the changes. I wish they would target weight next. 2kg is nearly twice as heavy as the same size LG Gram and 33% heavier than then 17" LG Geam.<p>No, I don't want an LG Gram but I would love a lighter 16" MacBook Pro.
Now if they would just support the new 7nm AMD mobile processors, I'd buy one of these without question. But I have a feeling that next spring I'll have to choose between this Mac and lower compute performance or a half price Linux model from some Asian company with ~50% more oomph. Tough call. If you're a developer, which would you pick?
I ordered one. It will be replacing my 2017 with a swollen battery and messed up keyboard. I'm worried I'm throwing good money after bad, but hopefully the MacBook Pro is back on it's game.<p>I'll be taking the 2017 to the Apple store and get them to fix it up under their keyboard (and hopefully battery) replacement program.
I wonder how many developers purchase MBP that don't require to build iOS apps or install xcode.<p>I realize i don't even look at other laptop makers just because i need to build iOS apps (which in theory shouldn't have any kind of relation) That's probably the textbook definition of monopolistic abuse.
I am still pretty astonished at the strict lack of the ports you would expect on a typical pro laptop: Ethernet, HDMI and at least one USB-A in particular. As someone who occasionally forgets to bring dongles with me, it's a bit of a shame.
Why do they get away with saying the world’s best pro notebook“ when I don’t see anything materially better than the dell precision 55xx and 75xx line?<p>More pixels in the 15.6
Xeon chip 5ghz
128GB ECC memory<p>I guess I’m wondering what metric singles this one out as being best?
I’m kind of amazed that people want a better laptop speaker. I feel that’s like the one thing that could be just decent and nobody would complain. Everybody I see either uses headphones or a bluetooth speaker.
Looks like an upgrade, for sure. I'd look at it if they did a few more things:<p>1) Ryzen Options; Icelake Options
2) Regular USB 3 Ports and 3.5mm Jack
3) Make the Touchbar Optional.
4) Do not solder stuff to the Board.
Friendly reminder:<p>it's == (it is | it has)<p>It's my responsibility to correct grammar. it's been tough for the Lions this year.<p>its == (the thing belonging to it)
You should always judge a book by its cover.
Prediction: These comments will be obscenely hostile toward the new device, yet the new device will rank among Apple's best selling computers to-date.
People pay a lot of money for what is in reality an abridged notebook.<p>"Look, we give you your Esc and arrow keys back"<p>it's a scam.
a couple of months ago I bought a fully decked out 15" for $6k CAD; for the same amount, I can now get a 16", and double the storage and slightly better graphics.<p>What the hell! I'm going to try getting a replacement from Apple. The 15" upgrade that I got was just announced too when I got it.
Why does every Apple promo read like a Trump speech or propaganda out of North Korea? "Most superlatives ever!" Am I being facetious? This kind of excessive language - every single time - is actually a big turnoff to trusting Apple's product announcements. With such excessive adjectives, I can't take it seriously.
I urge everyone to remember Apples actions regarding HK protests,specifically how they are able to remove an app from the store, without any easy way to side load it on devices.<p>Also keep in mind that warranty and repairs on Mac products are a complete ripoff.
right... a "Pro" computer with only USB-C ports, no HDMI out, no SD card reader, soldered memory.... dongle dongle dongle. no thanks. (before i'm accused of being a troll. I have a MBP with all those things circa 2005 or so, it's old and slow AF now. But still works for what I use it for and I have quite a few PC laptops as well.
Please give the same keyboard at the less than $1500 price point on the regular MacBook models. Also, give us ports and please stop with the thinner == better. This is a great step but I’m not spending $2600 on a new machine.
I'm thrilled that they've rolled back some of the worst post-2015 MBP changes. I'm a vim user, so I was never going to switch to something without a physical escape key. The key travel on the new machines were terrible; it's like typing on a piece of glass. Most importantly -- regardless of whether or not I have an external keyboard plugged in (sometimes I do, right now I don't) -- an internal keyboard needs to be reliable! I'm really glad Apple has seen the light and returned to the reliable scissor switched keys that I'm currently typing on.<p>My Late 2013 MBP has been serving me well for the last 5 or so years, but I've been wanting to upgrade it ever since 2016 (the battery life is quite poor & the GPU is showing its age). I refused once I saw the changes in the 2016 MBP, and was glad I never bought in after seeing more and more complaints about the machines roll in every subsequent year. I spent the next two years hoping for a redesign & started to give up. As much as I didn't want to, I've been spending the past few months looking at ThinkPads and Dells and mapping out my transition from OS X to Linux.<p>As much as I love OS X (and I do -- I've been dreading having to leave it), I just could not spend $2000+ dollars on a computer that I was going to have to fight with to make it work like my old one. This is going to be a daily driver, not a novelty or a toy. Yes, I could've remapped my escape key to caps lock. Yes, I could've bought a bigger laptop bag that could fit a small external keyboard. Yes, I could have learned to live with the new key travel. This is all beside the point if you ask me: I shouldn't have to do that.<p>Frankly, I'd be okay if Apple kept the old model around, as some people (including many commenters above me) have grown to prefer the butterfly keyboard. Maybe some people prefer the extra touch bar space? (I don't see why it has to be one or the other; I remember how many MBP variations/SKUs Apple carried when I started buying MBPs back in 2010.)<p>Just give me the option to opt out of these things -- even <i>most</i> of these things -- and I'll keep writing you checks. I'm looking forward to doing this in a couple months assuming the reviews on this machine are good.
For less money something more open and more powerful? <a href="https://system76.com/laptops/galago" rel="nofollow">https://system76.com/laptops/galago</a><p>Here is a nickel kid: buy yourself a real computer
-Dilbert
I don't believe this press release indicates which ports the laptop has. I assumed that meant it had a crappy selection, and further googling proves correct - 4 Thunderbolts and a headphone jack.<p>In my eyes, that makes it a non-starter for an alleged "Pro" laptop. For the professional work I do, an SD card reader (for photos and video), HDMI/DisplayPort (for presentations, either in the boardroom or better viewing of photos and videos), USB A (because thumb drives), and for my specific work, an ethernet jack, are all required to do my job. Also magsafe power is a lifesaver.<p>I'll be holding onto my 2014 15" until it's cold and dead. And if Apple still doesn't have a suitable replacement, Lenovo likely will still have great pro laptops.
It feels as though Apple looked at the two biggest complaints, and gave the smallest concessions they possibly could.<p>• The keyboard uses scissor switches (and thus hopefully won't completely die), but still only has 1mm of key travel.<p>• They added back an escape key to the top row, but the touch bar is still there—and there's still no function keys as a result.<p>The keyboard, okay, <i>maybe</i> Apple really needs those thinness metrics for marketing purposes—but would it really have killed them to up the travel to 2mm? And, why the heck are they so dug in on the touchbar? While I admittedly only have anecdotal evidence, I think it's relatively clear at this point that neither users nor developers have taken to it in any significant way. Just kill it already. It's been three years—if people haven't discovered how amazing it is by now, they aren't going to have a sudden awakening.