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Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

122 pointsby herohampover 5 years ago

51 comments

rc-5over 5 years ago
Allow me to preface this by saying that I am, in fact, a teen, and absolutely do not represent the majority of teenagers.<p>This post is a generalization and a subjective rant that absolutely doesn&#x27;t hold up in real life.<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;When you explain what happens under the hood, they will ignore you. When you tell them what a certain setting probably does, they will ignore you.<p>In my experience, although there may be some teenagers for which this is true, this is also true for people of all ages - those who aren&#x27;t interested in learning the base technology simply won&#x27;t.<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;Green text with a black background is the norm, right? No.<p>This seems a diversion from the writer&#x27;s point, that teenagers don&#x27;t understand computers. Maybe it&#x27;s meant to simulate what the writer believes teenagers think of the command line? If so, it&#x27;s hopelessly off it&#x27;s mark, like much of this post.<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;All they want is a computer that works, and that runs their text messaging, anti-privacy and social media apps. They think that Linux is for hackers, that OS X is premium users and windows is what everybody else uses.<p>No. Just no. I don&#x27;t know where the writer could have gotten such an idea - most people who use OS X at my school do so for dev, but there is definitely also a sizeable Linux population in addition to the Windows contigent. Personally, I have devices running Windows, OS X, and a few Linux distros.<p>Ultimately, however, the writer disproves his own point, that teenagers don&#x27;t know how to use computers as well as their reputation deserves. Being at home with the development of computers is vastly different from actually using them - something at which, I counter, teens are actually pretty good. Yes, the majority of teens may not use the command line much. But the computer is much more than the command line - something other posters on this thread have noted well.
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rootsudoover 5 years ago
I am happy that I grew up in the golden age of computing - people say it was the 80&#x27;s, but being a &quot;90&#x27;s&quot; kid, we had classes from HTML w&#x2F; dreamweaver, how to modify&#x2F;break windows 95&#x2F;98 ---<p>In fact in NYC, my elementary school had keyboard class where you&#x27;d learn to type and general proficiency w&#x2F; a computer.<p>In Florida, middle school photoshop, dreamweaver, fireworks and even access database.<p>High school had C++ class - from what I believe was a fired Compaq programmer, needless to say it sucked but gave me a foundation.<p>Meanwhile this was also the time where you needed to know a bit of HTML to modify your Geocities, Angelfire, Neopets (middle school days) to Myspace profile.<p>Facebook came in and removed that whole layer of customization - Windows XP was really stable and besides malware no one needed to really know how to fix their computer.<p>Then if you were into Video game culture, you had to learn how to solder to modify consoles with modchips, how to burn a CD, and generally modify and configure OS settings from IRQ to adding a DVDRW.<p>Same with pirating videos, there was no youtube - maybe you&#x27;d get lucky and find an FTP server that hosted videos but even then you&#x27;d had codecs. Default, Windows didn&#x27;t include Divx, MPEG2, etc - just WMV&#x2F;WMA.<p>Same with burning an MP3 to CD.<p>Nowadays I feel like a SRE&#x2F;Sysadmin hack, but man then again I know my way enough a system, can program lazily and hold my own with people who consider themselves senior devs, architects etc from MSFT, NIST, SpaceX --<p>It&#x27;s nice. Maybe I do know something.
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joezydecoover 5 years ago
The motivation is different, that’s all.<p>When we were kids we needed to learn to hack DOS and Windows because our games wouldn’t run without them. Hard drive crashes, SCANDISK, reinstalls, fucked up drivers... whatever it took.<p>My kids can’t fix Win10 but now they know their way around web filters and how to hack Screen Time to bypass the shutoff. They’re trading pirated movies in gDrive and doing all kids of other stuff I have no clue about.<p>Nothing has changed. It’s just a matter of your point of view.
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kdamicaover 5 years ago
I think there&#x27;s a point to be made here that proficiency with UI is often conflated with technical understanding by nontechnical people, but I&#x27;m not sure the point about teens is well-founded. Specifically, while it&#x27;s probably true that teens don&#x27;t understand IT, neither do the vast majority of adults. I&#x27;d love to see some data on this.
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gumbyover 5 years ago
They don&#x27;t know what their car&#x27;s choke would have been, or what a dwell tach is. So? They can still drive. Not one in 100,000 could milk a cow.<p>I write assembly code that runs in supervisory mode. My kid couldn&#x27;t write assembly code to save his life, but just taught me a new algorithm I&#x27;d never seen before. And he <i>could</i> learn assembly if he wanted.
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cuddlybaconover 5 years ago
When I was in school, there were computer classes from grades 6 until 12. It covered topics like typing, keyboard shortcuts, internet browsing, internet research, and basics in more advanced topics like Photoshop and programming.<p>By the time my sister, who is 7 years younger than me, got to school that was mostly gone. It was cut back &quot;because kids just know that stuff&quot;.
nkriscover 5 years ago
In my own experience, it has nothing to do with age or generation, it&#x27;s simply down to one particular aspect of one&#x27;s personality: curiosity. A lot of people just aren&#x27;t that curious about the world around them. Ever notice that lots of tech and IT geeks are also very knowledgeable about completely unrelated fields? It&#x27;s not a coincidence, I don&#x27;t think. The type of people that are drawn to the tech field are often people that are simply curious about <i>everything</i>. Just so happens you can make a good living in tech, but not as easily in gardening or building RC planes.<p>I grew up in the late 90s and early 2000s and was very interested in computers, dabbling in C++ and Flash ActionScript and all sorts of things. It was just because I was curious about it. Most of my other friends just weren&#x27;t. When they saw something and they didn&#x27;t know how it worked, they didn&#x27;t even think to care. I see this with people of all ages, young and old. My mother is like that, but my father is very curious.<p>As I&#x27;ve gotten older, I&#x27;ve gotten <i>more</i> curious about things and I just keep learning more and more. Some people just want to know how everything works and will take the time to figure it out.
8bitsruleover 5 years ago
When I was a teen, I couldn&#x27;t have explained (in any detail) how a car engine worked either. Five years later, I&#x27;d quickly learned in order to keep my own running. Those who need to, and have the time, will figure it out.<p>If they are clueless, that&#x27;s good. There are <i>much more important</i> things a teen needs to learn.
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guggleover 5 years ago
Hello,<p>I think the article is not very good, however its main point still stands.<p>Part of my activity is teaching basic word processing and basic html&#x2F;css to non-IT students. And it&#x27;s quite a struggle because most (I say most because of course there are exceptions) students don&#x27;t know how to use their computer for the most basic tasks.<p>Most have no idea how files are organized on a computer, ignoring the concept of file system. They simply can&#x27;t navigate their file system and end up stuck between their &quot;Documents&quot; and &quot;Downloads&quot; folder. They routinely &quot;lose&quot; their files.<p>Once they&#x27;ve been introduced to the notion of file system, most don&#x27;t understand the difference between regular folders and files and zip archive. Arguably, Windows is to blame here since it tries to hide the difference. Then they try to edit the files directly from the archive and don&#x27;t understand why they can&#x27;t save them right away.<p>Most don&#x27;t know how to use a keyboard. Basic shortcuts (ctrl+c&#x2F;ctrl+v and the like) are ignored. Most rely on the mouse and the menus for everything, and of course are terribly slow to achieve their tasks.<p>So we have to explain all these things before we even start with our subject, to the point where I wonder if they&#x27;ve been exposed to desktop computer before. I think most have only been using phones and tablets.<p>So, from my point of view, the conclusion of the article is right: teachers and parents should not assume their children and students know how to use a computer, because it might not be the case.
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TeaDudeover 5 years ago
You want to know who&#x27;s fault this is? Yours, whoever wrote this article.<p>It constantly complains that modern teens barely touch anything underneath the surface in tech but ironically completely smears over any of the underlying issues.<p>Let&#x27;s have a think...<p>Do any of the mainstream tech publications cover low level programming? No.<p>Are any low level computer skills taught in college or other mainstream programming courses? No.<p>Do big tech companies give a thought to the quality of their software as long they can foist it on people? No. (Although you could probably argue that that isn&#x27;t a new phenomena)<p>Garbage in, garbage out. Someone failed to protect the tech industry and it isn&#x27;t these teens&#x27; fault that real programming is completely obscured. The best chance they have is getting into retro games so they can stumble across David Murray or Clint Basinger or the like.
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vsaretoover 5 years ago
&gt;They most likely won’t care about the operation of their system<p>Frankly, I don&#x27;t either. Most of the important know-how comes to servers or cloud service configurations. My personal and work computers just work, no thanks to my knowledge. Win10 is vastly better than all previous versions in terms of this. Even if I run into something, there&#x27;s always Google&#x2F;YouTube. I think most teens can handle Google.<p>You don&#x27;t need to have this stuff memorized any more. That under-the-hood knowledge you&#x27;re trying to get me to memorize? Just tell me what to search for and I&#x27;ll go look it up if I want to learn about it. I can remember that search phrase easily. I&#x27;m not going to remember every detail you talk about.<p>When I can&#x27;t google my way into 6 digit jobs, I&#x27;ll start worrying. Until then, those under-the-hood people can rest easy knowing things are much more streamlined these days because of their work.
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tuzakeyover 5 years ago
From 2013: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coding2learn.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;29&#x2F;kids-cant-use-computers&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coding2learn.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;29&#x2F;kids-cant-use-co...</a><p>It&#x27;s not just teens.
outimeover 5 years ago
When I had my first computer as a kid (~8yo) and no one to teach me about the inner workings, I still felt that I wanted to dig deep into it. As the years passed by and saw the evolution from dial-up to all-day-long available &amp; fast connections, tons of material to learn online, videos on demand... I thought oh wow, the next generations are going to have so much IT knowledge very early!<p>Turns out that today, in my humble experience, it’s very rare to find geeky (pre)teens unless they have geeky parents (and not even then). Computers became much more simplified, problem-free and in different forms to mostly consume content. So the curiosity that grew inside of me while solving daily computer problems is very difficult nowadays as most of the issues aren’t very challenging (which is very good for the average user).
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RandomGuyDTBover 5 years ago
I hate that this is true. I&#x27;ve posted here before on the same topic[1] and although we <i>know</i> a lot of stuff about computers, we don&#x27;t really <i>grok</i> them. Or at least, not a lot of my peers do, and I&#x27;m sorely missing some info myself. My friends just don&#x27;t care. At all. About anything related to lower level computing. I explain things and they ignore me, even when I try to make it relatable (without being patronizing). I&#x27;m glad I&#x27;m not a teacher because I don&#x27;t know how to get people interested in what I&#x27;m interested in.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21707864" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21707864</a>
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ratsmackover 5 years ago
I have three boys, two are engineers and one is a gamer. Guess who fixes their computer when things go awry? That&#x27;s right, it&#x27;s me, their 65 year old father that learned to code assembly back in 1976 on a Dec PDP. I tried to teach them something more than just the superficial shell visible to users, but they just weren&#x27;t interested in learning what was inside.
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leokennisover 5 years ago
Even if the premise of this article is true...being able to fluently use computers (even if you don’t understand their inner workings) is already better than what their parents achieve.<p>No one was complaining that mom and dad don’t know what defragmentation is, and why it doesn’t matter on an SSD. No one was sad grandma had no clue why changing the DHCP setting on her router made no difference when she was outside the house.<p>The issue was your mom calling for the 20th time asking how to rip a cd in iTunes, or dad not being able to attach a photo to an e-mail.<p>That issue seems more than solved by the current generation.
chrisco255over 5 years ago
It ought to be a dying trope that kids know tech better than adults. I think the author is correct in observing that tech has become so user friendly and ubiquitous that understanding the basics doesn&#x27;t really mean much. It&#x27;s certainly not going to help you get ahead in any field. And as Millenials and gen X gets older, they have been around technology for decades longer, and the tech is no longer changing the workforce as quickly as it was in the &#x27;90s and &#x27;00s and even early &#x27;10s.
dangover 5 years ago
The article is rather silly but the thread is rather good, so let&#x27;s try turning off the flags and letting it run. Current, former, and future teenagers welcome!
baldfatover 5 years ago
Early Generation X Computer users will be the greatest generation of computer users because:<p>1) We had an easy time with simple CPU like the Z80 or Assembly for the C64. You could have the whole chip in your head.<p>2) Graphical Interfaces hides the nuts and bolts and we didn&#x27;t have them.<p>3) We had to hack to do things because usually that was the only way to do something you wanted to do. We had to tweak and modify files and ram just so a game would launch. It was magical at the time.
thrower123over 5 years ago
There&#x27;s no golden age when people used to know how to use computers. It&#x27;s always been a small percentage that had any idea how things actually worked. You used to have to have that type of obsessive, systemizing kind of mind to work things at all, so most people just didn&#x27;t. For every one of us futzing around with autoexec.bat, there were a dozen or more who didn&#x27;t care to frig with systems where troubleshooting was more complicated than turning it on and off and blowing dust out of the cartridge.<p>Most people are not curious nor do they care to know things at that level of detail.
jtmcmcover 5 years ago
I use green text on a black background in my terminal.
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arexxbifsover 5 years ago
Computers have evolved into commoditized entertainment appliances. Nobody who spends their time watching TV is expected to know how to fix their TV or even how it works: it just does, and everyone&#x27;s happy.<p>It&#x27;s not even a new thing. Granted, when computers were less common, it was of course more likely that someone who owned one also had an interest in it beyond the bare basics. Still, I had friends who didn&#x27;t know anything more than how to plonk a disk into the drive of their Amiga 500 to start a game, or otherwise learned the bare minimum required to for example load a C64 game from tape. And let&#x27;s not even talk about the Nintendo crowd. What a bunch of ignoramuses!<p>Those who are interested in how computers work will learn about it. The rest will treat it as the appliance it&#x27;s intended to be and go about their lives, spending their time getting proficient in other areas and skills instead.
mywacadayover 5 years ago
I don&#x27;t know why there was ever an expectation that teens would know more. People that are interested in a topic know more, its not a factor of age. The same could be said of cars, boats, household appliances, anything! If you are interested you will learn and if your not you won&#x27;t. Exposure and use on a daily basis does not imply that you will know whats going on under the hood, a literal old car metaphor for understanding whats going on out of sight. The majority of people drive or are driven in cars and only have a cursory knowledge of how they work and the thing is they don&#x27;t need to and that&#x27;s how it should be. We don&#x27;t expect people to understand in detail how their cars&#x2F;trains&#x2F;elevators&#x2F;coffee machine&#x2F;hair dryer work, why should a computer be different?
ImprovedSilenceover 5 years ago
I mean, I didn’t have a clue about IT and only ever used windows until AFTER college. In high school I didn’t have the slightest care for any computer type stuff besides AIM, Napster and cracked video games. I had two programming classes in college. (Neither Of which I cared for too much or really learned much about the underlying machine)and they were both done on Windows computers. I guess I’m lucky my degree (EE) overlapped with comp eng, I got into some decent jobs that let my work overlap gradually into software land. I now I work on Linux machines all day, and have a very healthy hunger to continue to learn and pick up new knowledge.<p>But bottom line, none of this developed until I got into a career. Kids back in the day were just as clueless. And there are a few outliers, sure.
numlock86over 5 years ago
First paragraph:<p>&gt; Many teachers and parents believe the younger generation know more about technology and “computers” then their own generation. They believe the teens of today know more about computers because we grew up with them, we have always used them and use them for almost every task.<p>Ok, the entire article basically starts off with a subjective assumption. Great ...<p>By that logic my parents should know how analog telephones or TVs work, but I already have doubts that they have an idea of how 3.4 kHz sound like or even know what a kHz is. I doubt they ever heard of cathode rays either. So why should nowadays teens know how MIPI DSI works for example? Because they look at a 7&quot; screen driven by that the entire day? The whole idea is just plain bogus.
Klunyover 5 years ago
&quot;When you explain what happens under the hood, they will ignore you. When you tell them what a certain setting probably does, they will ignore you.&quot;<p>So teenagers do what teenagers have always done? I agree with the others - kids who need to figure stuff out will find a way.
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VLMover 5 years ago
IT is about highly scaled standardized system level engineering of documented verifiable reliable processes in support of even more complicated business processes that theoretically make, or at least save, profit.<p>The article title is correct in that teens don&#x27;t know anything about that. Most management personnel don&#x27;t, either.<p>Although the article contents seem to be that teens are somewhat worse than average at manipulation of UIs. Given stereotypical teen performance at automobile operation, culinary skills, operating romantic relationships, and muscular coordination in general, I&#x27;m not sure why anyone is surprised.
voldacarover 5 years ago
I unironically find green text on a black background really nice to read, it contrasts well without being fatiguing on the eyes like dark text on light background. not sure what the author is on about
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the_jeremyover 5 years ago
Don&#x27;t know how an unsubstantiated rant like this (from 2016, no less!) is trending, but I&#x27;ll respond.<p>When I was a teen, I knew practically nothing about computers - I remember trying to use regedit to hack a server-side game because some friend told me to. I could type and play games and surf the internet, that was about it.<p>I wrote my first program in college, and I&#x27;m doing reasonably well in software (graduated 2017 with a SWE job at median wage for my area, job hopped for a 20% raise after a year, and just got put in for a promotion at my new job).
imgabeover 5 years ago
I imagine the author shaking his fist at the sky while writing this.<p>Speaking as a former teen, teens don&#x27;t know much about sales and marketing, mechanical engineering, international politics, or basically any other aspect of the adult world. This is because they&#x27;re teens.<p>I guess because they learn to use new technology faster it gives the impression that they know all about it. But I don&#x27;t know why anyone would expect them to be an expert in operating system design or anything.
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PeterStuerover 5 years ago
The article and many of the responses here to it sadly reflect the casual agist narrative that was long present but especially in the last few years has become more prevalent. It is not a productive model to reason from unless division is your goal.<p>You will find computer literate in each generation, just as you will find the majority in each case completely oblivious to and uninterested in acquiring the knowledge to understand and troubleshoot non trivial issues.
pnathanover 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve observed this myself. A lot of the computer studies stuff for high schoolers in the 1990s was &quot;How To Use Word&quot;, I don&#x27;t imagine its gotten better since.<p>&gt; Using green text on a black background is not only obnoxious but also hard to read.<p>speak for yourself. :-)<p>&gt; they don’t care. All they want is a computer that works,<p>This isn&#x27;t actually an unreasonable ask. It&#x27;s roughly identical to cars, phones, and other tools.<p>The author&#x27;s original point - that teens aren&#x27;t gurus - is quite excellent.
Izkataover 5 years ago
&gt; Green text with a black background is the norm, right? No. Using green text on a black background is not only obnoxious but also hard to read. If at all the norm is white text on a black background or white on black.<p>Hm. I use white-on-purple at work, and green-on-black at home. Anyone else use apparently-unusual terminal colors?<p>*green-on-black with occasional red, was part of a rotating color set I used to use. The Christmas colors were nice enough I kept them year-round.
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newsgremlinover 5 years ago
Thinking back to my adolescence, there were few that were that proficient and similar observations could have been made, being able to use limewire and the office suite was about as technical as it got for my late millennial class.<p>I think we are getting smarter overall, but I don&#x27;t expect it to be the norm, it requires a societal shift away from distracting platforms and entertainment that don&#x27;t facilitate the need to explore and learn.
fmajidover 5 years ago
The whole computing experience is overwhelmingly complex compared to the Apple ][ I started with. My daughter just turned 8 and I am struggling with how to:<p>1) get her interested (she has been an iPad generation girl since 3)<p>2) ease her into it without the layers of complexity that I had the time to learn organically as they were introduced over the last 40 years.
jacobsenscottover 5 years ago
Breaking news: Teens don&#x27;t have a clue about *! Also IT &lt;&gt; using a computer. IT &lt;&gt; hacking, etc. IT is a department in the basement of megacorp. I&#x27;ve been programing for 25 years and I don&#x27;t have a clue about IT. I understand it involves getting Microsoft certifications.
rdiddlyover 5 years ago
Kind of like every other demographic. But yeah definitely don&#x27;t make the mistake of assuming tech knowledge is inversely proportional to age. Otherwise it&#x27;d be like we&#x27;re all coming out the womb writing assembly language and by age 50 we can&#x27;t even work a toaster.
cm2187over 5 years ago
I am trying to help juniors in a financial institution to pick up programming. What is interesting is that it is a skill a lot of people wish they had, and lots of people sign up. But very few follow through when they realise what it means in practice.
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theLotusGambitover 5 years ago
&gt; Why do the teens of today think this? Because simply, they don’t care. All they want is a computer that works, and that runs their text messaging, anti-privacy and social media apps.<p>Wanting technology to just work without having to deal with esoteric nonsense? How childish!
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mattlondonover 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve done a bunch of things at work for &quot;bring your child to work&quot; days etc where we run a class with the kids for an hour or two to make a game using Scratch on raspberry pis.<p>There is a wide spectrum of ability and interest (and the ages go from perhaps 8 or 9 to mid teens), but a large proportion of the kids get it and are off and happily programming away to make their flappy bird clone based on some basic instructions. Many say they already know Scratch from school. Many get bored and go rogue by ignoring the instructions and doing their own thing with the game and you start to see some bizarre mashups of what they&#x27;re supposed to be making and what their imagination came up with. When we run those classes, the feedback is usually really really positive.<p>Sure - scratch is not &quot;programming&quot; as most of us would think of it, but it <i>is programming</i>.<p>Tl;Dr - give kids a break. There is interest and ability there if you give them the chance to express it.<p>It is very easy to judge.
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mastrsushiover 5 years ago
&quot;When you explain what happens under the hood, they will ignore you. When you tell them what a certain setting probably does, they will ignore you&quot;<p>Was this written by a teen?
RMPRover 5 years ago
Interesting article, although the absence of margins made the reading painful (at least for me)
lota-puttyover 5 years ago
Sounds like grown-ups are failing to learn how to engage teen-minds during these tech-vibrant times.
kube-systemover 5 years ago
Heck, I&#x27;ve worked with a lot of developers who would fall into the same camp.
what-the-grumpover 5 years ago
And thanks to python... devs dont know anything about IT either... import ml, import scikit-learn, import pandas, why is my pc out ram when i try to load 4gb of text into a data frame?<p>[Angry sysadmin will show himself out now]
jcimsover 5 years ago
I&#x27;m less worried about teens than I am the folks we&#x27;re interviewing with masters degrees in computer science that don&#x27;t know what a subnet mask is or how to use a sniffer.
the_dripperover 5 years ago
this article has bad spelling. not to be a snob but i could do it better, as a non-english speaker. also i dont get why the youth always has to be represented in a bad way. i mean most uf us are kinda stupid, but not all of us.
rodgerdover 5 years ago
Gen X doesn&#x27;t have a clue about punch cards. Boomers don&#x27;t have a clue about steam engines.<p>My teen is a lot more interested in what she can use tools to do and create, not fucking around with installing hardware and operating system. I feel like this is a better use of her time, frankly.<p>This is like listening to people my parents&#x27; age rant about how no-one has to use their pantyhose to fix a broken fan belt, or adjust a carb to a richer or leaner fuel mix as you go skiing and come home.
learn_moreover 5 years ago
Jonny can&#x27;t troubleshoot.
zekuover 5 years ago
this is just a rant and not constructive.
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jdofazover 5 years ago
This is from 2016
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