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Federal safety official slams Tesla, regulators for misuse of its Autopilot tech

118 pointsby velmuabout 5 years ago

20 comments

tristanbabout 5 years ago
I don&#x27;t agree with many of the points here. My partner bought a Tesla, I had little interest in them. I now would buy no other car. The autopilot has changed how I drive forever. We regularly take long three hour drives to get to a scenic spot that I would never consider doing in another car. With autopilot engaged, I am monitoring everything - probably with more accuracy then if I was driving, due to the decreased cognitive load. I don&#x27;t get tired, like I do in an other car, with all the negative effects that come with that.<p>Im a safe driver, and autopilot makes me better at driving. I am not surprised that if you don&#x27;t follow the instructions bad things can happen. (I believe statistically less than meat powered driving). That is on the human, not the technology.<p>The guy in the article was playing a phone game. He crashed into a barrier he had had problems with before.<p>Same guy, playing a phone game, whilst on cruise control in a BMW. Should we regulate that? No, we should regulate idiots in cars.
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dmitrygrabout 5 years ago
I remain amazed that Tesla can keep marketing &quot;autopilot&quot; and &quot;full self driving&quot; as such, despite the obviousness of the fact that it has and will continue to keep killing people silly enough to believe the hype.<p>Hopefully the NTSB recommendations on this include better and clearer explanations that full self-driving is anything but, and that those recommendations get implemented into serious laws with serious penalties.<p>I get that it is easy to outsell your rivals when you can market fairy tales. I just don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s okay when people start getting killed because of it.
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Animatsabout 5 years ago
The fundamental problem with Tesla&#x27;s driver assistance system is straightforward - it won&#x27;t brake for anything other than a car rear end. So far, Teslas on autopilot have hit at speed at least two semitrailers, a fire truck, a street sweeper, and various other objects partly obstructing a lane. The NTSB has pictures of most of these.[1] In most cases there&#x27;s no braking at all - the thing just plows into the obstacle at full speed.<p>Musk&#x27;s decision not to use LIDAR is paid for in blood.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ntsb.gov&#x2F;news&#x2F;events&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;2020-HWY18FH011-BMG.aspx" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ntsb.gov&#x2F;news&#x2F;events&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;2020-HWY18FH011-BMG.a...</a>
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gokabout 5 years ago
From the CNBC article [1]:<p>&gt; The NTSB also called out Huang’s employer, Apple, for failing to set a strict policy for its employees banning non-emergency use of mobile devices while driving<p>Yeah the real problem here is insufficient employer paternalism during commutes.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;02&#x2F;25&#x2F;ntsb-calls-out-tesla-and-apple-for-neglecting-driver-safety.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;02&#x2F;25&#x2F;ntsb-calls-out-tesla-and-app...</a>
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erik_landerholmabout 5 years ago
My friend has one and uses the auto-pilot responsibly, works very well. Until someone shows me concrete evidence that autopilot is responsible for an inordinate amount of accidents at a rate higher than normal human driving,...this seems like a huge waste of time and fear mongering.
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BooneJSabout 5 years ago
That concrete is terrible there. At night it’s hard to see the painted lines but the lines made by the concrete totally bend towards that left exit. Challenging to tell which lines to follow to stay in your lane.<p>I don’t mean to give Tesla a pass mor marketing autopilot, but that section of road is hard for humans too.
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KingMachiavelliabout 5 years ago
&gt; Two, the cushion already was severely damaged. After a Toyota Prius crashed into it two months earlier, the length of the attenuator was shortened, offering less protection against the 3-foot-tall concrete median wall behind it.<p>Maybe the repairing crash mitigation devices of frequent &amp; deadly hazards should be a higher priority.<p>Or maybe better marking the &#x27;gore&#x27; lane as in its current state it&#x27;s simply an empty lane that would look identical to a real lane (i.e if you can&#x27;t see the divider then it looks like a normal lane).<p>I don&#x27;t get why we aren&#x27;t looking into slightly changing our roads to better work with self driving cars when all it takes is a little more paint.
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free652about 5 years ago
The problem is that the autopilot almost works, so drivers dont need to pay attention most of the time.
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Glyptodonabout 5 years ago
I think it&#x27;s bizarre that they call out Apple. Like what, they add &quot;though shall not game and drive&quot; to a document somewhere or put it in a memo and magically things like this wouldn&#x27;t happen?
Rebelgeckoabout 5 years ago
I dunno if LA Times changed the headline after this was submitted to HN, but it&#x27;s actually &quot;NTSB slams Tesla, Apple and regulators over a fatal Autopilot crash&quot;<p>The &quot;slamming&quot; of Apple seems particularly lame. Partially it&#x27;s because they make iPhones, but the head of the NTSB also seems to be implying that an employer has a responsibility to prevent its employees from engaging in risky behaviors when they&#x27;re off the clock.
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noahtallenabout 5 years ago
I thought autopilot did have a mechanism to get the driver’s attention when they stop touching the wheel?
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davidgardnerabout 5 years ago
&quot;In a 2017 study for Rand Corp., researchers assessed 500 different what-if scenarios for the development of [self-driving] technology. In most, the cost of waiting for almost-perfect driverless cars, compared with accepting ones that are only slightly safer than humans, was measured in tens of thousands of lives. “People who are waiting for this to be nearly perfect should appreciate that that’s not without costs,” says Kalra, a robotics expert who’s testified before Congress on driverless-car policy.&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;features&#x2F;2019-10-09&#x2F;tesla-s-autopilot-could-save-the-lives-of-millions-but-it-will-kill-some-people-first" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;features&#x2F;2019-10-09&#x2F;tesla-s-a...</a>
zarothabout 5 years ago
The CDC reports that every day in the US about 9 people are killed, and more than 1,000 injured due to <i>distracted</i> driving. [1] Annually, over 1 million people die globally in car crashes.<p>Driving is both the source of trillions of dollars of economic value annually, as well as the cause of ~$1 trillion a year in economic damages (including pain, suffering, and loss of life).<p>A focused and alert human is, overall, fairly awesome at driving, even in surprisingly adverse conditions. Humans, however, can also be lazy, easily distracted, and make irresponsible choices.<p>Cars to some extent try to protect humans against making these bad choices (like seat belt warnings) but to other extents respect that humans are not to be subjugated by a machine, and this means even being allowed to make bad decisions.<p>ADAS systems like AutoPilot and Level 3-5 self-driving are the most promising solution to the daily devastation that occurs on our roadways. This is literally a multi-trillion dollar problem. For an ADAS system to be most effective, it must be reliable and predictable, and it <i>also</i> must be easy to use. An ADAS system cannot increase driver safety if the driver turns it off, or won&#x27;t turn it on because it&#x27;s too annoying.<p>As a Tesla owner I can definitively state, that the safest way for me to drive is with AutoPilot enabled, with my hands on the wheel, and looking out the damn windows. This is how cars are supposed to be driven, and it&#x27;s how Tesla consistently tells its drivers to drive the car. While Tesla consistently and repeatedly instructs drivers to keep their hands on the wheel and to remain alert, it doesn&#x27;t stop humans from taking their focus off the road, just like humans do consistently with or without AutoPilot.<p>My point is basically this; it does not necessarily make driving <i>more safe</i> to make AutoPilot impossible to abuse. The way most drivers that I see on the road are operating their vehicle, it should be illegal to drive <i>without</i> AutoPilot.<p>In short, I think it&#x27;s important to understand that a technology can literally save lives while still not saving <i>every</i> life. It&#x27;s a tragedy every time someone dies on the roads, and it will be a miracle when we have technology fully deployed that can prevent 99% of those deaths.<p>[1] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cdc.gov&#x2F;motorvehiclesafety&#x2F;distracted_driving&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cdc.gov&#x2F;motorvehiclesafety&#x2F;distracted_driving&#x2F;in...</a>
dmitrygrabout 5 years ago
Some of the info NTSB released, direct from them: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ntsb.gov&#x2F;news&#x2F;press-releases&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;NR20200211.aspx" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ntsb.gov&#x2F;news&#x2F;press-releases&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;NR20200211.as...</a>
veeralpatel979about 5 years ago
I wonder why they chose the name Autopilot!<p>The name seems to imply something the tech does something that it&#x27;s not, though in all fairness to Tesla, they are very clear about the fact that Autopilot does require an attentive human at the wheel.
neonateabout 5 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.md&#x2F;5nRO8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.md&#x2F;5nRO8</a>
clouddroverabout 5 years ago
Bloomberg article on the same: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2020-02-24&#x2F;tesla-to-face-fresh-autopilot-scrutiny-after-company-snubs-ntsb" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2020-02-24&#x2F;tesla-to-...</a>
deeglesabout 5 years ago
If I was a passenger in a Tesla, I would not let the driver turn on Autopilot. If they refused, I would get out and get a rideshare.
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agumonkeyabout 5 years ago
maybe this will make Elon musk think twice
crmrc114about 5 years ago
Good, for a car that uses AI to control windshield wipers ( <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.inverse.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;39877-elon-musk-tesla-ai-wipers" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.inverse.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;39877-elon-musk-tesla-ai-wip...</a> ) You cannot tell me that Tesla cant be bothered to do something like simple driver attention checking. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Driver_drowsiness_detection" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Driver_drowsiness_detection</a><p>Tesla does not want to fix this issue- because they have to know that a large number of their buyers are wanting the car specifically to abuse the assertive technology.<p>When a rental Ford Fusion yells at me using Adaptive Cruise without sensing my interaction with the wheel you have got to be kidding me that Tesla cannot take the lead on this technology.
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