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New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

100 pointsby conse_ladabout 5 years ago

15 comments

adamgluckabout 5 years ago
The only reason a study like this works is because it takes place in a controlled environment where they can actually starve the rats (or sometimes make genetic changes that reduce the rats hunger.)<p>Study after study and clinical experience shows that low calorie diets are really hard for humans “in the wild” to maintain in practice. People who are on them constantly complain of hunger (in the mid-20th century these were actually called “semi-starvation” diets), and go back to their previous weight as soon as they are done. That’s why a lot of modern dieting has oriented around low carb &#x2F; high fat because it means that you get enough calories, but the composition of your macronutrients causes you to lose weight. You don’t have to go as low as Keto to get these effects (that’s 5-10% carbs) and certainly don’t need to entirely cut out fruit, etc. And the results have been observed clinically for 100+ years.<p>This, however, hasn’t prevented academic nutritionist after academic nutritionist from pushing these narratives without any clinical experience. Can you imagine being at least a little hungry for 20 years... the equivalent time span in humans to get the effect reserved here in rats? That’s insane. And, more bluntly, probably not doable.<p>If you’re skeptical of this try dropping your caloric intake by 30% for two weeks and tell me how you feel :)
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sonecaabout 5 years ago
Somewhat tangential. I often see people treating different diet restrictions that make you healthier as if they were competitors. Low carb&#x2F;high fat, versus low calories, versus intermittent fasting. They imagine the different orientations as startups in a winner-takes-all market and pump their preferred one <i>against</i> the others.<p>I think a better way to frame a healthy diet is that you should aim to follow all three and realize that they (obviously) help each other work. These are collaborative orientations, not competitive.<p>You can control i) what you eat (low carb&#x2F;high fat), ii) when you eat (intermittent fasting), and iii) how much you eat (low calories).<p>You should be following at least one of them at all times, two of them often, all three of them sometimes.
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ruminaseanabout 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve done strict calorie tracking for restriction, keto as well as IF.<p>The best I&#x27;ve ever felt was keto, the easiest for me to adhere to was calorie tracking. It&#x27;s marginally harder if you eat out a lot, but if you cook for yourself and can throw everything on a food scale for a week or so until you get an idea of what&#x27;s servings of your most commonly-eaten foods looks like, tracking calories made losing weight for me and reducing my daily eating almost comically easy. There&#x27;s a switch in my brain somewhere that works really well when I have to enter the calories of everything that goes in my mouth into an app....suddenly that cookie or those chips that were so hard to resist aren&#x27;t a thing for me at all....my brain manages to yell &quot;200 calories for THAT?? Nope.&quot; I found myself eating more at the end of the day just to hit my total calories and macros.
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grandmczebabout 5 years ago
Since people are sharing anecdotes I might as well share mine. I’ve personally tried IF, keto, calorie counting, and various combinations of all three. I’ve only ever lost weight when doing some form of calorie counting, and since that’s easiest for me without putting other restrictions on my diet, I’ve settled on just tracking calories long term.
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0xcde4c3dbabout 5 years ago
Do we actually know whether these effects are triggered by calorie restriction in general, as opposed to restriction of some specific nutrient that&#x27;s happening incidentally to the calorie restriction protocol? I seem to remember some reports from ~10 years ago that protein restriction, and possibly even restriction of specific amino acids, has shown similar effects.
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ip26about 5 years ago
Many of the observed effects at least distantly remind me of the known effects of exercise.<p>I wonder if there&#x27;s an intersection, e.g. without adjusting your eating habits, exercise results in an <i>effectively</i> calorie-restricted diet?<p>If there is no intersection, I wonder which is more valuable than the other? Not much exercise is going to be happening on a starvation diet.
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timwaaghabout 5 years ago
I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;m mentally capable of following this kind of diet for a very long time. It just makes you hungry and less productive. It also weakens you in terms of physical strength.
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hprotagonistabout 5 years ago
especially in lab rats, the null hypothesis is that lab rats eat too much and too regularly.<p>this may or may not generalize.
chubotabout 5 years ago
I watched part of Aubrey de Gray on Joe Rogan yesterday. He said that fasting (which is caloric restriction if not identical to it) has a smaller effect on lifespan for animals of greater mass:<p>Roughly<p>- worm: 5x longer lifespan by fasting<p>- mouse: 50% longer<p>- dog: 10% longer<p>- human: 1-2% longer<p>I&#x27;d be interested to hear support or refutations of this. It seems like something that should be pretty well studied by now.
bigbeeabout 5 years ago
Original title: “Eat less, live longer Salk scientists show how caloric restriction prevents negative effects of aging in cells”<p>What it should have been: Are you a lab rat? Eat less, live longer! Salk scientists show how caloric restriction prevents negative effects of aging in cells <i>of rats</i>
acdabout 5 years ago
I have read that calorie restriction can &quot;reset&quot; the immune system. How do you eat calorie restricted diet without getting very thin?<p>If you eat 30% less than you should calories do you not eventually get so thin that you die from under nutrition?
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djohnstonabout 5 years ago
so how does this translate to my day to day?<p>can i skip breakfast and eat whatever i want for 6-8 hours, ala IF?<p>does the window of consumption not matter, and i just need to eat fewer calories on the day?
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zackmorrisabout 5 years ago
I wish that it was possible to do a caloric restriction study on people who work out. I spent most of my 20s eating roughly twice as much as average and hitting the gym 3-4 times per week and I never felt better, especially after 20 rep squat sessions that naturally raise hormones like testosterone and HGH.<p>I occasionally cut calories to lose weight or train my metabolism to be &quot;ready&quot; for emergency situations (which was honestly camping or going broke, not exactly military excursions), but in my experience it basically felt like death. Like I could feel my body catabolizing muscle and I had flu-like symptoms if I took it too far for too many weeks.<p>Anecdotally, my parents&#x27; boomer generation felt that bodybuilding was generally a waste of time. If you watch old movies from the 60s and 70s, people were especially lean. And then unfortunately juicers in the 70s, 80s and 90s ruined the reputation of bodybuilding so everyone figured that being strong meant taking steroids. It&#x27;s only been in the last 5-10 years or so that I&#x27;ve noticed a resurgence in natural bodybuilding (check out Jeff Nippard, Steve Cook and Mike O&#x27;Hearn for examples of what&#x27;s possible natty).<p>So personally I really feel that lifting weights from about 15-16 years of age for life probably replicates many of the health effects of calorie restriction. Like, Arnold Schwarzenegger did some of his best work in his 40s when he was in better shape than most people in their 20s. Many athletes in their 70s and 80s look like they&#x27;re 50.<p>An untrained human bench presses about 100 pounds. When I was growing up, a 300 pound bench was considered mastery. Today with YouTube and better workout programs and supplements, that&#x27;s probably 400-500 pounds. I personally would choose to have 3-5 times average strength (anything above 4 is metahuman IMHO) rather than spend my life at a withered calorie restricted strength of 1&#x2F;2.<p>Of course ethically, it would be better for the planet if nobody worked out I guess. That&#x27;s a separate discussion though, and I feel that some of the downside could be alleviated if the extra calories came from relatively benign sources like rice and beans. So my question is, is this all just vanity? Or would a diet&#x2F;exercise approach be comparable to calorie restriction?
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waterheaterabout 5 years ago
I recently read a copy of Isaac Asimov&#x27;s &quot;The Chemicals of Life.&quot; Written in 1954, the book talks about how and why our bodies work. It hardly mentions DNA and focuses on the larger structures of enzymes, proteins, vitamins, and hormones. Some of the information is outdated in its presentation, but the book still holds up in almost all areas. (Also, I had never realized Asimov was a Professor of Biochemistry. He knew his stuff in this area.)<p>The first chapter of the book is titled, &quot;The All-Important Protein.&quot; This struck my 2020, DNA-oriented mind as an odd starting point, yet Asimov was very clear: &quot;all life is protein.&quot; The book is remarkably lucid, and here&#x27;s one of the best portions of the book:<p>&quot;Suppose the food you ate contained very little fat. That wouldn&#x27;t bother your body a bit. It would take the carbohydrate you eat and turn it into fat. It happens all the time. Everyone knows what starchy foods will do for the waistline.<p>&quot;If both fats and carbohydrates are low, the body is still not at a loss. It can manufacture both out of the proteins of the diet.<p>&quot;Where the body <i>does</i> get stuck is in the case of a shortage of proteins. It cannot manufacture proteins out of fats and carbohydrates. Proteins require nitrogen, and neither fats nor carbohydrates have any. So proteins can only be obtained for the body by making certain that protein is in the food. It is impossible to live on a diet of starch, butter and sugar. You can get all the energy you need, but you can&#x27;t build tissue.&quot;<p>Asimov places heavy emphasis on the two primary categories of what our body cannot naturally produce: essential amino acids and vitamins. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins. The human body cannot produce nine of these amino acids, and we term these to be &quot;essential&quot; (Asimov said there were only eight; the necessity of histidine for adults was not yet established in 1954.) We must acquire the essential amino acids from a source outside our body. If we don&#x27;t acquire these essential amino acids, our bodies will fall apart. Wikipedia says &quot;protein deficiency has been shown to affect all of the body&#x27;s organs and many of its systems&quot; [1]. Asimov later discusses the importance of vitamins, or &quot;atom groupings, which the body cannot make for itself and must get from the food it eats.&quot; Without vitamins, we cannot produce certain coenzymes and will fall ill and possibly die.<p>Essential amino acids and vitamins. I&#x27;ve been focusing my diet on the acquisition of those in correct quantities. My diet-optimizing function seeks to minimize sugar, maximize protein, and moderate the rest. So far, it seems to be working well; I still build muscle at the gym and fat stays off. Wonder if this is what keto basically optimizes for as well.<p>So many articles about bodily function I&#x27;ve seen online jump straight to considerations of DNA. Certainly, this approach is more accurate, though I do wonder if we the layperson are approaching health issues with too much detail. To analogize to software, it&#x27;s like we&#x27;re trying to debug our complex C++ program by pouring over the binary. The issues are far more likely to be with what we&#x27;re putting in than what&#x27;s already there.<p>Sources:<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Essential_amino_acid" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Essential_amino_acid</a>
DoreenMicheleabout 5 years ago
<i>“This gives us targets that we may eventually be able to act on with drugs to treat aging in humans.”</i><p>Oy. Why do we do this nonsense? Why can&#x27;t it just be research that helps us better understand how to eat healthy?<p>&#x2F;pet peeve
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