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The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

403 pointsby processingabout 5 years ago

23 comments

aazaaabout 5 years ago
From the paper:<p>&gt; If the neuroinvasion of SARS-CoV-2 does take a part in the development of respiratory failure in COVID-19 patients, the precaution with masks will absolutely be the most effective measure to protect against the possible entry of the virus into the CNS. It may also be expected that the symptoms of the patients infected via facal-oral or conjunctival route will be lighter than those infected intranasally. The possible neuroinvasion of SARS-CoV-2 may also partially explain why some patients developed respiratory failure, while others not. It is very possible that most of the persons in Wuhan, who were the first exposed to this previously unknown virus, did not have any protective measure, so that the critical patients is much more in Wuhan than in other cities in China.<p>This is a good example of why writing off COVID-19 as no more dangerous than the flu is itself so dangerous.<p>I should also point out that most people in the US face similar conditions to those in Wuhan. The extent of infection is not known, and therefore protective measures are not in place. We have been actively discouraged from &quot;buying masks&quot; and told that they are ineffective.
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thijsvandienabout 5 years ago
As a side observation: most reporting seems rather binary, i.e. you either die or survive, period. What interests me the most, however, is how often survival means full recovery, especially now that the nervous system comes up. Are there any long term effects? Should one generally expect to come out of it worse, the same, or stronger? I&#x27;m much less afraid to die from this than to end up with chronic respiratory and&#x2F;or neurological issues.
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hirenjabout 5 years ago
Whether you believe this or not comes down to whether you believe references 32-34 from the paper. I haven&#x27;t read the stuff about transgenic expression of human ace2 in mice, but it would sound a lot more like it was aberrantly expressed, so I&#x27;m not counting that. &quot;More evidence needed&quot; is the correct interpretation here, I believe.<p>There&#x27;s other literature out there saying ACE2 is ubiquitously expressed (including brain) - so that means one of two things: People saying it&#x27;s expressed everywhere are wrong, or SARS-COV-2 requires more than ACE2 for infection. There are papers saying that transfecting cell lines with ACE2 doesn&#x27;t always render the cells susceptible, so it&#x27;s probably a good idea to consider the requirement for a co-receptor.<p>Like anything, the true answer probably lies in between all these possibilities.
hannobabout 5 years ago
This is almost a week old, I haven&#x27;t read about it anywhere else. I have read and heard plenty of interviews with scientists involved in this in the past few days and noone has mentioned anything in that direction.<p>Anyone has any link to secondary sources where other scientists try to put this in perspective?
vilhelm_sabout 5 years ago
&gt; According to the complaints of a survivor, the medical graduate student (24 years old) from Wuhan University, she must stay awake and breathe consciously and actively during the intensive care. She said that if she fell asleep, she might die because she had lost her natural breath<p>Sounds like something from a horror movie!
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sombremesaabout 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve only read the abstract, and it seems to clearly say that the virus can get to the brain via the lungs. So I have no idea what people ITT are on about regarding purposeful infection or masks for prevention. Regardless, this abstract also does not explain the mildness of the disease except for the immunocompromised and elderly, which to me renders the link between how you get the infection and fatality a bit suspicious.
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majosabout 5 years ago
Not a biologist, but reading the paper, the chain of reasoning appears to be summarized in this section:<p>&gt; <i>Taken together, the neuroinvasive propensity has been demonstrated as a common feature of CoVs. In light of the high similarity between SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2, it is quite likely that SARS-CoV-2 also possesses a similar potential. Based on an epidemiological survey on COVID-19, the median time from the first symptom to dyspnea was 5.0 days, to hospital admission was 7.0 days, and to the intensive care was 8.0 days 15. Therefore, the latency period is enough for the virus to enter and destroy the medullary neurons. As a matter of fact, it has been reported that some patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 did show neurologic signs such as headache (about 8%), nausea and vomiting (1%).</i><p>There&#x27;s also this rather disquieting anecdote used as evidence of a link to the nervous system:<p>&gt; <i>According to the complaints of a survivor, the medical graduate student (24 years old) from Wuhan University, she must stay awake and breathe consciously and actively during the intensive care. She said that if she fell asleep, she might die because she had lost her natural breath.</i><p>Supposing that this neurological link is real,<p>&gt; <i>the precaution with masks will absolutely be the most effective measure to protect against the possible entry of the virus into the CNS. It may also be expected that the symptoms of the patients infected via facal-oral [sic?] or conjunctival route will be lighter than those infected intranasally. The possible neuroinvasion of SARS-CoV-2 may also partially explain why some patients developed respiratory failure, while others not. It is very possible that most of the persons in Wuhan, who were the first exposed to this previously unknown virus, did not have any protective measure, so that the critical patients is much more in Wuhan than in other cities in China.</i><p>So let me ask a dumb question for someone with actual biomedical knowledge. Are they saying that infection of the CNS is somehow easier through the nose, in which case high-quality face masks actually do matter?<p>I&#x27;m also confused by this sentence in the introduction, which appears to contradict the hypothesis that the upper respiratory tract is a high-impact area?<p>&gt; <i>However, different from SARS-CoV, SARS-CoV-2-infected patients rarely showed prominent upper respiratory tract signs and symptoms, indicating that the target cells of SARS-CoV-2 may be located in the lower airway.</i><p>I will note that, unlike some other papers on this topic, this one has been peer-reviewed in what seems to be a legitimate medical journal (Journal of Medical Virology), so there should be some genuine substance here.
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jxyabout 5 years ago
I see a lot of &quot;may&quot;, &quot;possible&quot;, &quot;if&quot;, ...<p>Is this how people typically write a paper to Medical Virology?
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xenoniteabout 5 years ago
The link should be changed to the publisher‘s page where the pdf is linked.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;abs&#x2F;10.1002&#x2F;jmv.25728" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;abs&#x2F;10.1002&#x2F;jmv.25728</a>
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john_moscowabout 5 years ago
PDF (link buried within the page): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;epdf&#x2F;10.1002&#x2F;jmv.25728" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;epdf&#x2F;10.1002&#x2F;jmv.25728</a>
liquidforceabout 5 years ago
If I understand this correctly, could wearing nose clips and only mouth breathing be an effective strategy to reduce impact?
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newsbinatorabout 5 years ago
If it did turn out this virus is neuroinvasive and that is what causes acute respiratory problems, how would this be prevented&#x2F;mitigated&#x2F;treated, theoretically?
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citboinabout 5 years ago
Great. I work in an E.R. and my neurological system is already being ravaged by M.S. I&#x27;m not sure that I would not just walk off of the job if we are inundated with COVID-19 patients.
vorticalboxabout 5 years ago
Question what effect is vaping having on the spread? Walking in a city in the UK I see people leave large plumes of vaper which seems to me be an excellent transport system.<p>Warm and wet.
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endorphoneabout 5 years ago
It is interesting how absolutely <i>passionate</i> some people are about masks. There is a pretty heady contingent here that seems to be of the &quot;I DID MY PART&quot; sort (by mindlessly pushing an absurd anti-science anti-mask angle -- I was one of the silly minority countering it a few days ago, to very little effect).<p>&quot;If you wear a mask your testicles will shrink and everyone will hate you!&quot;<p>But the more important question: Is it time to stop trimming nose hairs?
biolurker1about 5 years ago
Was this forced to second page?
pombrandabout 5 years ago
Airborne viral particle protection: N95 masks may only be effective used with eye protection. Surgical masks may not help at all.<p>Looked for interventional studies testing whether face masks and eye protection work in humans to protect against airborne viral particles. A critical issue with many such studies is that medical staff only use masks and&#x2F;or eye protection at work, opening them to being infected outside of work.<p>Found a small study [1] getting around this problem by exposing subjects (n = 28, avg age 30.5 years) to monodispersed live attenuated influenza vaccine particles by placing them in front of a vibrating-orifice aerosol generator for 20 minutes, subsequently testing for infection using RT-PCR and culture in nasal washes.<p>Surgical mask: 3M 1818 | N95 mask: 3M 1860&#x2F;1860S | Eye Protection: Z87 Uvex non-vented<p>-----------------------------------------------<p>RESULTS<p>-----------------------------------------------<p>No precautions: 4 out of 4 infected.<p>Ocular exposure only: 4 out of 4 infected.<p>Surgical mask only: 5 out of 5 infected.<p>Surgical mask + eye protection: 5 out of 5 infected.<p>N95 mask only: 3 out of 5 infected.<p>N95 mask + eye protection: 1 out of 5 infected.<p>1. Bischoff WE, Reid T, Russell GB, Peters TR. Transocular entry of seasonal influenza-attenuated virus aerosols and the efficacy of n95 respirators, surgical masks, and eye protection in humans. J Infect Dis. 2011;204(2):193–199.
daunabout 5 years ago
I was actually wondering about this because both the Spanish Flu and the 2009 H1N1 pandemics left life-long brain damage for some survivors in the form of narcolepsy with cataplexy. The vaccine for H1N1 caused it in a very small amount of patients as well. After the Spanish Flu they called it &quot;encephalitis lethargica&quot;. It appears that it damages the hypothalamus.
daenzabout 5 years ago
Who wants to help make a design file for 3d printed nose plugs? If blocking the intranasal path is effective in preventing the CNS infection, as this paper suggests, nose plugs should be effective here.
nswest23about 5 years ago
don&#x27;t forget that the title includes the following:<p>&quot;...may be at least partially...&quot;
Santosh83about 5 years ago
I thought papers dealing with this virus were to be made available publicly?
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vernieabout 5 years ago
How many fucking names does this thing have?
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clonabout 5 years ago
Would this explain the apparent sudden collapse of people on the streets in China and Iran? [1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.snopes.com&#x2F;fact-check&#x2F;people-collapsing-coronavirus&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.snopes.com&#x2F;fact-check&#x2F;people-collapsing-coronavi...</a>
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