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Not all young people are ‘digital natives’

157 pointsby thgabout 5 years ago

22 comments

heyflyguyabout 5 years ago
I changed my business recently to a situation where I deal with alot of millenial aged college graduates. For all the talk of this generation &quot;growing up with the internet&quot;, I am consistently surprised by how poor their non social media skills are. Things like copying files from a thumbdrive to a computer, filling out a spreadsheet, adding a header or footer to a document - sometimes it is quite shocking.<p>I graduated from High School in 1994 and had some computer classes leading up to that. I learned how to type a letter in wordperfect. I learned how to save it to my floppy disk. I learned how to use a spreadsheet to make a budget.<p>What has happened that we don&#x27;t teach these basic things any more? Social media is important as a medium but basic job skills are really being left to the employer to teach.<p>Of course, it could be the kind of young person I am contracting. But they are finance majors, political majors, and so on.
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Hokusaiabout 5 years ago
&gt; But our social and media users are a group marked by narrow and limited digital media use and a lack of data literacy. They are likely to come from some of the poorest households in the country.<p>I see this when I open Youtube in a private Window. My feed is full of videos about movies, software engineering, history, ... I just do not get what the most popular videos are about.<p>With TV there was a similar drift toward low quality content. But, there was a limit how low it could go and at prime time they needed to cater to everybody, including the middle class.<p>With Youtube and social media, you can live in your own bubble of low quality content. Facebook is just the same but much worse.<p>Many young people are as close to be digital natives as I am of being an airplane pilot for flying frequently.
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jccalhounabout 5 years ago
I teach at a community college in the USA. Maybe 10 percent of them are what I would consider computer literate. 80% can get by but the other 10% are very computer illiterate.<p>On reddit I will sometimes see memes about tech illiterate professors but they only think that because they don&#x27;t see the rest of their classmates try to use tech in front of them.<p>I had typed up a list of things that I see students struggle with when they try to use computers but I don&#x27;t want to make it seem like I am sitting around &quot;look at these kids these days!&quot; because in reality in a class or say 20 there will only be 1-2 that really struggle with computers.<p>-- Of course this will make it a real shit show with all the schools at all levels going to &quot;elearning&quot; to deal with the Coronovirus.
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code_duckabout 5 years ago
I was friends with someone who had a couple of kids who were obsessed with video games. For me as a kid, that naturally led to some sort of hacking. If something didn&#x27;t work, I would try to investigate or fix it.<p>For them, it was playing games while constantly talking to their friends, and if not that, watching videos on YouTube of other kids playing games.<p>One of them, a 13-year old boy, was upset that his laptop screen didn&#x27;t work. He had been complaining to his mother for months about it. I pointed out to him that his laptop had an external monitor port and that he could plug it in to something else and it worked fine. He had never investigated this possibility. I also took the laptop and cleaned it out viruses and spyware... Something like 42 different packages were removed.<p>Basically if something didn&#x27;t work, they would just give up and say that it was &quot;broken&quot;.
sorenjanabout 5 years ago
I saw a teacher somewhere say that he had noticed that kids increasingly have trouble understanding how file paths work in computers. It&#x27;s something I think is very intuitive and key to use a computer, but I guess when you&#x27;re only used to smartphones you rarely if ever have to think about files and folders.<p>This is exactly why the Raspberry Pi was created, to enable kids to get computer experience in a world full of locked down phones and tablets.
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keiferskiabout 5 years ago
This link is about inequality in the U.K., but what&#x27;s even more interesting to me is the massive number of people that don&#x27;t <i>use the Internet at all.</i> Only about half of the world population is online and there are dozens of countries where only 20-30% of the population has &quot;accessed the Internet in the last 12 months from any device, including mobile phones.&quot;<p>- DRC (8.62% of 81,339,988 people are online)<p>- Nigeria (27.68% of 190,886,311)<p>- Indonesia (32.29% of 263,991,379)<p>- Pakistan (36.18% of 220,892,340)<p>We truly are only at the beginning.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_number_of...</a>
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Ididntdothisabout 5 years ago
I don’t understand how this is surprising. We have reached a point where devices and software are working well enough to not worry about how they work. The same happened with cars and probably a lot of appliances. Some decades ago you needed to know how they work so you could repair them. Nowadays not many people have even the foggiest idea how a car works. They just use it.
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dsalzmanabout 5 years ago
Classic blog post from 2013 on this subject.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coding2learn.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;29&#x2F;kids-cant-use-computers&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coding2learn.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;29&#x2F;kids-cant-use-co...</a>
dpeckabout 5 years ago
Whether someone is a “digital native” or not has everything to do with whether they’re 1) interested in creating something, and 2) what they’re interested in creating.<p>I may think they’re really missing out on everything that a computer&#x2F;the internet can do, but there are plenty of people really into cars that feel the same way about me driving a 23 year old vehicle.
Aweltonabout 5 years ago
The thing I&#x27;ve noticed about the younger generation is that they are better at consuming tech intuitively, but mostly have no idea what makes it work. They seem to be able to use technology almost instinctively, but if they have to troubleshoot or create anything they don&#x27;t know where to start.<p>You have to design UI for &#x27;digital natives&#x27; to be just as user friendly as you would for baby boomers that didn&#x27;t see their first computer until after they were grown. Both of them would be equally lost if you plopped them down at a terminal with nothing but a blinking cursor. This is generalizing, of course, there are exceptions.<p>Anecdotally the only thing that separates a 9 year old and a 60 year old is that the 60 year old won&#x27;t want to touch a computer because they are afraid they will break something and the 9 year old will mash away until they get where they want to go. Neither knows or cares how or why it works.
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PopeRigbyabout 5 years ago
This is mostly my experience. I&#x27;m 18 and a lot of the people that go to my school only know how to use social media, and come to me when they need tech help. My closer friends are more tech literate, but they still come running to me when they need help with something more complicated. I supposed I should be happy that they even have interest in getting help. Most would just give up.
decasteveabout 5 years ago
As someone who grew up tinkering with computers I can relate but then I remember the perception of my elders towards my generation. I remember all the things I couldn’t do or didn’t pick up on that my family (and extended relatives on the homestead) could do. They could so easily fix and build everything and anything around the house and farm. Everyone was just so incredibly handy.
ineedasernameabout 5 years ago
And not all slightly older people meet the expectations of tech use for that slightly older generation. I think it&#x27;s not uncommon for HN, but I have a minimal social media presence, and am rarely an early adopter-- more like a stage-2 adopter once something is proven, and very much not on board with social media adding anything positive to my life. So-called digital natives are, I think, becoming increasingly skeptical as well, in a grass-roots phase of limiting contact to closer, well-known friends&#x2F;acquaintances. Not yet a majority, no, but the beginning of what has the potential to be a trend.
neuralzenabout 5 years ago
My siblings are 10+ years younger than me, and have very little technical savvy, despite holding advanced hard science degrees, whereas such things are of my profession. I think part of the difference was growing up in an era where I could break things easily, and would have to understand and investigate them in order to fix them. More modernly, this sort of understanding isn&#x27;t needed, so unless you have a burning curiosity, there isn&#x27;t an ambient technical nourishment that is required to imbibe. No eLan Vital, as it were.
rndmizeabout 5 years ago
In recent days I&#x27;ve been starting to feel this idea of &quot;digital natives&quot; is a silly one. There&#x27;s no such thing as a &quot;reading native&quot; or &quot;math native&quot; – these are skills and concepts we learn in school because society at large has decided they are important enough to warrant the investment.<p>On the other hand, there&#x27;s no standard curriculum or expectation around computers and software (afaik). We have this expectation that people will learn how to use things by osmosis or will be taught by the thing itself, perhaps because some kinds of software are extremely good at this (primarily games) and some types are easy enough to get started and have a motivation (eg. social) that they can &quot;pull&quot; users through their difficulties (or they can ask friends). People jump to conclusions - &quot;if the kids can do that, they can do everything&quot; - which is clearly not the case. My knowledge of Excel won&#x27;t help me with Snapchat which won&#x27;t help me with Blender - and the difficulty difference between commonly used consumer apps and work apps can be significant.<p>The issue is that outside of the easy spaces, learning about computers is boring, difficult, doesn&#x27;t have obvious usefulness, provides largely useless feedback, is often wildly unintuitive compared to how things work in the real world, and tends to require a baseline of knowledge most people won&#x27;t have the interest to develop. This isn&#x27;t surprising - the same applies to many subjects we learn in school. Most people will have no more interest learning common computer abstractions and mechanisms than memorizing their times tables or writing essays with an opening, body, and conclusion or looking up words they don&#x27;t know in a dictionary.<p>In short, computing is something that should be actively taught in schools. Typing is a basic skill that should probably be taught in elementary, when children are learning to write (or shortly after). UI abstractions like files, folders, windows, searching should probably follow. Word processing should be covered before middle school, other productivity software during, along with more complex abstractions (clipboard, storage, paths, permissions, networks, accounts&#x2F;passwords&#x2F;security, scams, where to get help). Introductory programming should be taught as well.<p>None of this is to say that the average student should be a capable programmer after completing K-12. But I think that almost everyone should know enough to draw reasonable conclusions about systems and problems they encounter without outside help, if for no other reason than to avoid being exploited by scams, ransomware, ads, and whatever new attack vectors show up in the coming years.
Ghjklovabout 5 years ago
<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coding2learn.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;29&#x2F;kids-cant-use-computers&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coding2learn.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;29&#x2F;kids-cant-use-co...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6186730" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6186730</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=13506283" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=13506283</a><p>Just posting because I was reminded of this
buboardabout 5 years ago
the tech community (i.e. us) celebrated the mobile &quot;revolution&quot; and simple (i.e. dumbed down) UIs for more than a decade. You reap what you sow though, you have kids growing up not knowing what a file is. This is no testament to the success of the mobile and dumb-down revolution either: people use their phones more, but the only action they know is scroll and like, so it s not like the UX empowered people, it just steered all their energy to consuming. There is less and less features everywhere, and we are now celebrating new emojis. We are essentially creating a new inequality with the &quot;dumbit down&quot; revolution which pushes people to walled gardens and single-function apps to avoid the pain of learning elementary configuration.<p>In more concrete terms, Apple is probably the first preacher of hiding complexity behind a mask, and then almost everyone followed, even those that shouldnt (e.g. linux, windows). Gone are the logical, consistent , hierarchical UIs like windows 95, now windows doesnt even have a start menu and you need a search bar to navigate the control panel. Of course people will never learn about a directory tree if they never see one, but those concepts are key and undestanding them simplifies the understanding of just about anything.
steve_adams_86about 5 years ago
My kids were unfortunately indoctrinated by chromebooks and iPads in our public school system. Using real computers to do things is way too complicated and frustrating for them. Most kids are just like them - they&#x27;re great using very limited technology for very specific things. The rest of computing is a mystery to them. They type on keyboards at less than 30WPM. At their age, I was doing 50 or so - a requirement for the typing class to &#x27;meet expectations&#x27;.
WJWabout 5 years ago
Well clearly. Almost everyone alive today is an &quot;electricity native&quot;, but it&#x27;s only a very small minority that can safely install wiring and the like. Everyone else just interacts with the consumerized version of it where everything interesting but potentially dangerous has been abstracted away. There is no reason to believe that younger people are more savvy about the workings of digital technology just because they grew up with consumerized versions of it.
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k__about 5 years ago
I saw a report one day, where they interviewed many young people (&lt;25) about their tech usage.<p>Most only used a smartphone and many of them only knew about well known apps like FB, IG, SC and WA, etc.<p>They were &quot;natives&quot; in their apps, but most of them didn&#x27;t know much besides that.<p>Which is probably what you would expect and its probably still better than the mindless TV junkies from before.
singsabout 5 years ago
“Data thinking”, “data doing” and “data participation” struck me as an unintuitive way to categorise digital literacy, especially as the example for “doing” seems to fit more squarely under critical thinking: “being able to identify and highlight the source of information others share”.
allovernowabout 5 years ago
The sooner we dispell the notion that all people are equally capable at everything, the sooner we can get back to prioritizing merit and see it return to the country. It will take decades. The virus has exposed the incompetence that pervades the nation.<p>Articles like this are only surprising because some two generations of propaganda has convinced young Americans that everyone deserves a trophy and we can all be Einsteins and Armstrongs if we just set our minds to it.<p>But this is moreso a structural, institutional issue. This mindset has resulted in the conflation of equality of outcome with equality of opportunity as we take for granted that everyone is equally capable in the west. So now instead we throw money and man hours and bad policy at our lowest achievers in a sort of crabs in a bucket mentality, I stead of prioritizing resources for those who are more likely to benefit society in broad strokes - scientists who cure disease, for example - and as a result our native students are being thoroughly outcompeted by other nations.<p>This has resulted in a net reduction of the standard of living for all Americans. And is probably one reason for inequality and general unhappiness.
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