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Stop Taking Regular Notes; Use a Zettelkasten Instead

785 pointsby 7d7nalmost 5 years ago

69 comments

gas9S9zw3P9calmost 5 years ago
This seems to be a new trend now. I&#x27;m skeptical. Many of the most successful people I know don&#x27;t have complicated systems like this - instead of spending time on optimizing note taking, they actually get stuff done. In fact, many don&#x27;t have systems at all. On the other side, most people raving about the systems are &quot;productivity gurus&quot; writing articles and books, not people who actually get stuff done or would be considered &quot;successful&quot; in the economic sense.<p>I see a similar trend with org-mode users. It&#x27;s great and all on a technical level (I&#x27;ve used it myself in the past) but it&#x27;s easy to fall into the elisp and customization rabbit hole. Over time, the few hours spent here and there to optimize the system add up to thousands of hours that could&#x27;ve been used to get stuff done.<p>These complex systems are the perfect excuse for procrastination because they make you feel like you are doing something productive while you actually aren&#x27;t. Just get stuff done.
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taghalmost 5 years ago
It&#x27;s important to keep in mind that Zettelkasten&#x27;s creator was an academic in the humanities. When I tried this system, I found it really shone when my goal was literature review -- i.e. to weave together arguments from disparate sources and articles, particularly when there was no quantitative or numeric way to do that weaving (e.g. in a table).<p>I think that more technical and quantitative subjects do not benefit as much from these large &#x27;connectionist&#x27; note-taking systems. For example, if your goal is to learn a new programming language, I don&#x27;t see Zettelkasten being particularly helpful: you&#x27;ve already grokked a a for loop in other languages, and you gain nothing by creating a new linked note under the &#x27;for loop construct&#x27; heading. Just do some practice problems instead!<p>But if your goal is to compare and contrast features across many languages, or to identify where certain software architectures are lacking, Zettelkasten would work just fine.
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meagheralmost 5 years ago
People love doing things that feel like work, but aren’t.<p>I’m terrified of picking up new systems like this without having a purpose. I could spend hours building out a graph, admiring all of MY knowledge, but not really have any intended use for it other than telling others about it and how I’m going to use it someday.
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knzhoualmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve taken 3000 pages of notes in a linear, bullet-point fashion, and I also keep up with education research.<p>As far as I can tell, both in studies and in personal experience, the fiddly details of your note-taking schemes don&#x27;t matter. The only thing that matters is attempting to integrate the information into a cohesive whole, which takes intentional thought.<p>With linear notes, there&#x27;s a failure mode where links that should be made aren&#x27;t; you can even walk around believing outright contradictions without noticing. But with a web, there&#x27;s an equally bad failure mode where your knowledge gets diffuse and unstructured (instead of &quot;X causes Y if Z&quot;, you get &quot;X, Y, and Z are related. But... was Z the thing that caused X? Wait, but then what was Y for?&quot;).<p>Both of these reflect a failure to aggregate and chunk the information into hard tools, but no productivity system can magically fix that; it always takes time.
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omginternetsalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve come to realize that:<p><pre><code> 1. 80% note-taking value is in writing the info down in *any* form. 2. 19% is in re-reading your notes. </code></pre> Moreover, you&#x27;ll evolve a loose&#x2F;informal system if you stick with it long enough. You&#x27;ll learn to read your past self. That&#x27;s presumably what Herr Luhmann did.<p>Note-taking changed my life. I urge people to stop chasing perfection and just get started.
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Normillealmost 5 years ago
Are Zettelkasten the latest Hipster fad?<p>A fortnight or so ago, I saw a link on HN mentioning &#x27;Zettelkasten&#x27; and had to look up the word, because I&#x27;d never heard it before. Since then, there must have been a Zettelkasten reference at least every other day.
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Gatskyalmost 5 years ago
This looks interesting, but one potential problem with this method is that you start treating the number of notes or the size of the graph as a success metric. The author even notes how it is &#x27;pleasing&#x27; to see their note graph grow in size. This could be a perverse incentive.
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ZainRizalmost 5 years ago
I recently studied both Zettelkasten and Build a Second Brain&#x27;s P.A.R.A note taking methods. They share some core principles but BASB seems much more practical for most people<p>The biggest difference was that Zettelkasten required a ton of work up-front, which made it nearly impossible for me to stick with it. BASB on the other had was more Just-in-Time based which makes it much easier to stick with.<p>I compared the two methods here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zainrizvi.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;remembering-what-you-read-zettelkasten-vs-para&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zainrizvi.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;remembering-what-you-read-zettelka...</a>
M5x7wI3CmbEem10almost 5 years ago
I searched for hours for a viable Zettelkasten method: org-mode, vim-org, TiddlyWiki, Roam, Notion, Joplin, Notable, Obsidian, Zettlr.<p>All of them were too complex, and not lightweight, cross-compatible, private&#x2F;secure, or futureproof enough.<p>I decided to settle on the default MacOS editor using a mix of .txt&#x2F;.rtf files, with extensive folder organization and the built-in tagging system. I plan on consolidating journal entries into subject categories.<p>Example: let’s say I learn something about investing. I write something brief about it in my \journal folder, tag it under investing, then maybe save a .pdf of the source to my \investing\temp folder.<p>Next, I add the new info to a note under the relevant category, such as \investing\ETFs.txt<p>Or, I create a new .txt&#x2F;.rtf (depending my needs)<p>I believe tags are saved as metadata, so it should be cross-compatible.<p>For books, I’ll structure it as \library\broad_category \book_name\chapter_n.txt, add the relevant folder tag, and maybe add an alias&#x2F;shortcut in the relevant folder. I summarize key points under relevant files such as \investing\ETFs.txt<p>This seems like the best method to me, but I’m open to other strategies.
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vijucatalmost 5 years ago
OneNote&#x27;s Linked Notes Taking does exactly this. You can combine it with the &quot;Dock to Desktop&quot; &#x2F; Docked Window feature which makes it hijack a part of the desktop space (to the RHS, typically) so that you can continue to take notes while reviewing stuff on the LHS. The window on the LHS can be another OneNote window (or one of the other Office applications), and as you type in the RHS, docked window, sentences are automatically linked to the page and line on the LHS.<p>Unfortunately, I didn&#x27;t find a single video showing the power of both Linked Notes AND Dock to Desktop, but these two show the usage of these features separately:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=tyon2RC_NIQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=tyon2RC_NIQ</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=F_6QsFfk06s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=F_6QsFfk06s</a>
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madballsteralmost 5 years ago
I don&#x27;t think one should suggest Zettelkasten to anyone who is looking for a simple to-do list or note taking implementation. Regular notes are perfectly fine if one wants to take regular notes.<p>Luhman&#x27;s zettels weren&#x27;t random thoughts or casual ideas that popped into his head during a stroll with the dog., but rather full, jargon-laden sentences that were close to publication-ready in quality, sometimes highly abstract in nature. He would take a couple dozen related zettels, arrange them on a table in sequence, rearrange them and eventually have a rough outline for an article or the chapter of a book.<p>Here&#x27;s a random zettel from Luhmann&#x27;s archive, translated by deepl.com. This is 1 out of 90,000 total:<p>1.6c1 &quot;About an activity, at one time, central and centralization.&quot; -- In some ways comparable to the view of Mary Parker Follett, Dynamic Administration, p. 183ff., e.g. p. 195: &quot;Unity is always a process, not a product.&quot; -- But she confuses unity and unifying, and says below quite correctly (p. 195): &quot;Business unifying must be understood as a process, not as a product.&quot; -- Except, of course, that the word unity does not mean process, this dynamic view is that the process can be described as valuable and characterizes the organizational view, from the finished fake unit to the unification unit process.<p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;niklas-luhmann-archiv.de&#x2F;bestand&#x2F;zettelkasten&#x2F;zettel&#x2F;ZK_1_NB_1-6c1_V" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;niklas-luhmann-archiv.de&#x2F;bestand&#x2F;zettelkasten&#x2F;zettel...</a>
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dangalmost 5 years ago
See also, for your Zettelkästen needs:<p>4 months ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22085837" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22085837</a><p>7 months ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21208196" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21208196</a><p>Definitely a trend, as 2&#x2F;3 of the posts have been in the last year: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?dateRange=all&amp;page=0&amp;prefix=true&amp;query=zettelkasten&amp;sort=byDate&amp;type=story&amp;storyText=none" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?dateRange=all&amp;page=0&amp;prefix=true&amp;que...</a>
Mizzaalmost 5 years ago
I find it very funny that all of my nerd friends are all suddenly using an archaic German note-taking system.<p>I started a simple system myself after reading the thread about them here a few weeks ago, and I have to say that it&#x27;s already been useful. It reduces the lookup times from O(all of the internet) to O(just my notes).
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slightwinderalmost 5 years ago
&gt; Zettelkasten is German for “slip-box”. It originates from German sociologist Niklas Luhmann.<p>Should this implicate that Luhmann invented Noteboxes? Because this is absolute not the case. There are many famous Zettelkaesten from famous people. The most famous might be the Mundaneum, a kind of wikipedia in noteboxes, from around 1900.<p>What Luhmann did was adding basic hypertext-principles to a common note-taking-tool.
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dghfalmost 5 years ago
IIRC, Robert Pirsig (author of <i>Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance</i>) described pretty much exactly this method of taking and organising notes on index cards in <i>Lila</i>, his 1991 follow-up to <i>Zen ...</i>.<p>Does anyone know whether Pirsig got the idea from Luhmann, Luhmann from Pirsig, both from someone else, or if both invented it independently?
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alexashkaalmost 5 years ago
I think it&#x27;s important to identify what your goal is, <i>before</i> deciding which note taking system works for you.<p>Regular notes are a spoon, this method may be a fork. Until you know what type of dish you&#x27;re going to be eating, it&#x27;s hard to advocate one utensil over another, although when in doubt, a spoon is a pretty decent universal.
bowmessagealmost 5 years ago
Roam looks neat. I wonder if anyone has tips on how one could use org-mode to achieve some similar results?
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can3palmost 5 years ago
I tried roam research and org roam only to find out that the overhead of managing notes quickly started preventing me from taking notes in the first place.<p>Why? Because now instead of just writing down a note I started thinking about what terms do I want to make links and maybe go through previous notes to do the same. Of course you don&#x27;t have to do that but the whole promise of the system is that the more you connect the more value you get.<p>I&#x27;ve dealt with this problem a lot (for example it&#x27;s the same with going through lot&#x27;s of rss feeds to categorize articles for later reading) and it&#x27;s always about book keeping taking more time than an actual action.<p>After that I started thinking what was the most important about note for me. Actually it wasn&#x27;t connections it was about the sole fact of taking a note (it has a higher chance that I&#x27;ll remember it) discovery and ability to take a not from any where. A laboratory journal of sorts.<p>In my particular case discovery is easily covered by git grep and since I use plain markdown files I can always edit it offline with vim or online via github&#x2F;gitlab web ide. Since it&#x27;s only one file I don&#x27;t even need to think about file names. The structure of notes is pretty well defined so it shouldn&#x27;t take too much to write a script that would generate a digest for some term.
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Kosirichalmost 5 years ago
It might sound kinda weird, but I see Azure DevOps Boards (or similar) as an ideal system for implementing this. Why: 1) Small notes via User Stories (or tasks) 2) Has linking capabilites 3) Has TAGs 4) Visual representation of LINKS 5) Most of the grind associated with doing this via other systems is removed 6) Free &amp; you can download the data in .csv if needed<p>Thoughts? It is something I wanted to try out for a while ( I currently use onenote with #(tags)).
GekkePrutseralmost 5 years ago
I used to do all my notetaking in Tomboy. It had very few features (no embedding of pictures even) but it was lightning-fast and you could add links on the go just by typing them. One of the big benefits was that there were keyboard shortcuts for literally everything.<p>However the application was deprecated and the &quot;NG&quot; version of Tomboy didn&#x27;t have the same performance. I moved to OneNote for the pictures which didn&#x27;t help.<p>I find snapping screenshots of meeting is much less helpful to memorise them than trying to filter them down to a few lines of written summary during the meeting itself. It requires more active listening rather than the practice of &quot;let&#x27;s snap all the slides in case I ever need to look at them later&quot;<p>Unfortunately all the recommended apps here seem to be Electron which tend to be slow and wasteful and have poor keyboard control. I don&#x27;t think this will work for me.<p>But in general, the practice of notetaking itself is in my opinion more important than the linking and method of storing them. It helps store information in our brain which is the fastest database we have :)
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miki123211almost 5 years ago
99% of the notetaking tools I&#x27;ve tried were completely inaccessible for screen readers.<p>In the end, I went with a much simpler, zettelkasten-like approach. All my notes are stored in a single wiki.txt file, stored on Dropbox for easy editing and in Git for history and as a backup. The file has very little formatting, two blank lines to separate notes, a line surrounded by single blank lines for headings and a &quot;-&quot; for lists. New notes are always appended at the end, and my journal for the current day is always my last note. That makes it very easy to append stuff there.<p>I use hashtags for organization. If I consider a note relevant to an idea, i just put #ideaName in there, wherever it fits. I find connections by searching for #ideaName via the search box of my text editor.<p>The system is very simple, very portable and works pretty well for me.
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john4532452almost 5 years ago
One datapoint of a power user using this method <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;braindump.jethro.dev&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;braindump.jethro.dev&#x2F;</a>
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chadlavialmost 5 years ago
It&#x27;s completely possible to achieve the same connection with a git repo of simple markdown files if you make sure:<p>* each file has a descriptive name that starts with an iso date<p>* each file is on a specific topic or idea<p>* you are using a text editor&#x2F;IDE like vscode that has good search tools<p>You can search a keyword across your whole notes database and you can see immediately when the note was written to get some chronological context and see, of course, the note itself. You can scroll through the list of results to see other places where you&#x27;re using that keyword.<p>The visual graph part the author is using is just a toy.<p>TLDR: any full-text-search notes database is functionally a Zettelkasten, don&#x27;t stress about it, just start taking notes
tugberkkalmost 5 years ago
A CRUD system where every post is a page, and every post can link to other posts in form of (look: topic) can help tremendously. I think that this is an improved form of Zettelkasten. For every topic there will be a timestamped post, unlimited.
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Cogitoalmost 5 years ago
I have no idea what system they used (if any) but this reminded me a lot of how &#x27;Every Frame a Painting&#x27; [0] described their note-taking when watching films.<p>One of the best parts of their videos was that every technique they were describing had multiple examples from often very different genres, or directors, or periods. The assumption was that they managed to keep all those connections in their head, but the reality was excellent note taking!<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;user&#x2F;everyframeapainting" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;user&#x2F;everyframeapainting</a>
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entha_saavaalmost 5 years ago
I think most of these &#x27;advanced&#x27; note taking features (even interlinking when used pervasively) distract more than it helps.<p>&gt; Regular note taking sucks<p>It sucks the least, I tried some of note taking apps and software, then settled at some lines of shell script.<p><pre><code> notes () { cd ~&#x2F;notes&#x2F;$1 clear ls } note () { vim $@ clear ls } </code></pre> This works surprisingly well for most purposes, along with syntax highlighting for markdown. I sometimes wish it had interlinking and images, but I haven&#x27;t come across a situation where I needed it.
fastballalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;m building a knowledge-base &#x2F; note-taking platform[1] built around digital notecards rather than documents. One of the things we found is that Zettelkasten is great, but it can shoehorn you into a certain organization method when sometimes it doesn&#x27;t make sense. So we also allow multi-parent nesting and tagging as powerful ways to organize your notes.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supernotes.app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supernotes.app</a>
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xseparatoralmost 5 years ago
This reminds me of a piece Stephen Johnson once wrote for the New York Times called &quot;Tool for Thought&quot;, which described his process using DEVONthink software.<p>(<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2005&#x2F;01&#x2F;30&#x2F;books&#x2F;review&#x2F;tool-for-thought.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2005&#x2F;01&#x2F;30&#x2F;books&#x2F;review&#x2F;tool-for-tho...</a>)<p>&quot;The raw material the software relies on is an archive of my writings and notes, plus a few thousand choice quotes from books I have read over the past decade: an archive, in other words, of all my old ideas, and the ideas that have influenced me[...]Consider how I used the tool in writing my last book, which revolved around the latest developments in brain science. I would write a paragraph that addressed the human brain&#x27;s remarkable facility for interpreting facial expressions. I&#x27;d then plug that paragraph into the software, and ask it to find other, similar passages in my archive. Instantly, a list of quotes would be returned: some on the neural architecture that triggers facial expressions, others on the evolutionary history of the smile, still others that dealt with the expressiveness of our near relatives, the chimpanzees. Invariably, one or two of these would trigger a new association in my head -- I&#x27;d forgotten about the chimpanzee connection -- and I&#x27;d select that quote, and ask the software to find a new batch of documents similar to it. Before long a larger idea had taken shape in my head, built out of the trail of associations the machine had assembled for me.&quot;<p>That process eventually turned into a startup around 2010 I helped found in NYC. Good times.
qwerty456127almost 5 years ago
By the way, what I hate about most of the note-taking apps is they usually require or push you to give every note a title. C&#x27;mon, people, do you invent a title for every note you would write on a paper or a sticky?<p>The same is relevant to e-mail subjects: i many cases the subject is wide, volatile or plain lacking. It often happens the actual contents of an email I receive has nothing to do with what&#x27;s there in the subject field.
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goktugk97almost 5 years ago
I would say if your workflow is not research-centric where you only implement software, these kinds of methods are not necessary. Only simple note-taking would suffice to ease your brain.<p>On the contrary, if you are reading papers and doing research, taking notes in a meaningful way is more helpful than you would realize. The human brain tends to skip information while reading and you only realize you didn&#x27;t actually understand that part when you try to write it yourself. The note-taking part doesn&#x27;t actually take that much brain resources. I am not a native English speaker but I am taking my notes in English. While taking my notes I don&#x27;t care about grammar or anything, I just read and write what I understood. When I finish the paper and I am comfortable with the topic, I return to my notes, fix grammars and, link them with my other notes. For example, sometimes I come up with a research idea, I make a note about it. In the future, while reading a paper, I realize some of the techniques that are described in the paper might be beneficial to that idea so I link them together.<p>In conclusion, it really depends on your area of work whether to take regular notes or Zettelkasten notes. Forcing your workflow to these methods might hurt your productivity but if you are a researcher I can say, it will be beneficial.<p>I recommend reading &quot;How to take smart notes&quot; book if you are interested in the topic.<p>I am using <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;org-roam&#x2F;org-roam" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;org-roam&#x2F;org-roam</a> to take my notes, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;org-roam&#x2F;org-roam-server" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;org-roam&#x2F;org-roam-server</a> to visualize it.
CatsAreCoolalmost 5 years ago
Thanks for sharing this. I had not heard of Zettelkasten, but it is just like the site <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mathlore.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mathlore.org</a> I created to help people collect math knowledge to study, learn, and explore mathematics.<p>That is, just like in a Zettelkasten, mathlore.org is a collection of items where each one is a self contained piece of mathematical knowledge that links to other items. It is designed so that the more you add to the system, the more interconnected things are, and the more useful it is.<p>I also decided to use tags instead of categories too. It is really cool to see the creator of Zettelkasten decided the same.<p>Again thanks for sharing this because I tried to find others that had researched a similar approach for storing information that I was thinking of, but I couldn&#x27;t find any. Now that I know about Zettelkasten I can gain a lot of knowledge in what works well and what doesn&#x27;t in this approach.<p>It is really cool to know that there are others that like this approach.
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carterklein13almost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve found that as a software engineer, the best note-taking medium for me is just one massive GitHub repo. It takes a bit of extra planning and oftentimes a bit of reorganizing to keep things in the right place, but I feel like as a software engineer it&#x27;s the one place I can truly keep all my relevant notes in one place. I can keep code snippets along with markdown notes files along with little hello world apps I build out.<p>notes - OS -- mutexes -- concurrency - architecture -- microservices --- serverless --- MOMs<p>etc etc... I think it&#x27;s very useful to me to keep high-level notes next to actual executable code. But perhaps most importantly is the ease with which I can replicate and reference other notes. While I&#x27;m writing out notes on concurrency with Go, I can easily reference or fully copy over my high-level concurrency notes.<p>It&#x27;s a little bulky, and requires a bit more overhead, but I think for a software engineer it&#x27;s one of the best ways to keep all your thinking in one place.
surefalmost 5 years ago
To me the most important thing in notes is to find what you want easily. Because of this I think having some sort of online system is needed, otherwise if you have the notes at different places you will in the end give up on it and also tags and search is a huge advantage. But in the end I don&#x27;t think there are one system that fits all, Zettelkasten might work for some people while others want it another way, this hypothesis is strengthened by the continuous output of new notes software. For this reason I created my own system, fitting _my_ needs. As a coder I chose markdown to also have the functionality to add snippets and search those snippets. The markdown documents stays in a folder type structure to organize the content and be able to use the vs code command cmd+p that I&#x27;m very used to. This works for me, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theorylog.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theorylog.com</a>.
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mark_l_watsonalmost 5 years ago
I have invested a lot of time and thought in organizing my notes, including writing an Evernote mini-clone in Clojure and Clojurescript (with a Javascript Firefox plugin for capturing stuff on the web) many years ago.<p>I settled instead on Google Keep because at the time I didn&#x27;t have a way to backup Apple Notes. I then saw a reference to the macOS Exporter app, it works OK, and I moved to Apple Notes because I slightly prefer Apple&#x27;s privacy policies.<p>Now, on any device (use web app for Linux) I can get to my notes and search them. I especially like the interface on iOS and iPadOS: doing a global search on everything on the device shows results for the Notes.<p>I do a lot of research, writing, and development and I really need an extended digital memory. I also need the process of saving information to be as fast as possible so I don&#x27;t avoid doing it.<p>The Zettelkasten systems, like Roam, seem like there is too much up front effort.
monkeydustalmost 5 years ago
Just starting out with Obsidian.md for note taking, going well so far. Love the link connections.
larschdkalmost 5 years ago
Is there a note taking tool that fully separates taking the note from the organizing (filing) and auto-archives everything? After using any tool, e.g. OneNote or even just a text file for a while, I get overwhelmed every time I open it to take a note as it is littered with stuff that I no longer need. I want a tool that only shows me what I&#x27;m working on. I don&#x27;t want to build a collection of notes. I want to record my thoughts and be able to retrieve them later, optionally organize some things for easier access. The rest should be auto-archived by default. I use a college notepad this way, but found no tool that lets me just start on a blank page and ignore the history.
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hypertextheroalmost 5 years ago
Creativity is just connecting things together.<p>Consider paper and pencil or ink when away from a computer.<p>Consider the simplest notes application that supports a wiki linking system when on a computer.<p>For the latter I like [nvAlt][n] which lets you write [[this]] to create a link to and a note titled ‘this’, and I hope Simplenote [implements wikilinks functionality][s] at some point.<p>[n]:<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;brettterpstra.com&#x2F;projects&#x2F;nvalt&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;brettterpstra.com&#x2F;projects&#x2F;nvalt&#x2F;</a><p>[s]:<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Automattic&#x2F;simplenote-macos&#x2F;issues&#x2F;185" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Automattic&#x2F;simplenote-macos&#x2F;issues&#x2F;185</a>
sandGorgonalmost 5 years ago
In terms of an actual product, this is a note with clickable hashtags ?<p>This seems like an evolution of an idea that originated in the days before free text search.<p>If you have a personal diary which supports free text search (most hug trackers), why would you need to build structure?
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stippenplanalmost 5 years ago
Personally, I am a big fan of Vim-Wiki [0]. Provides basic note taking, can be reached anywhere from Vim. It is great for jotting down TODOs, while it is also suited for more substantial, longer thoughts. You can add links to other notes as references, or just for quick navigation. These internal links can then be visualised, to highlight the connection between your notes and thoughts [1].<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;vimwiki&#x2F;vimwiki" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;vimwiki&#x2F;vimwiki</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;maxvdkolk&#x2F;vimwikigraph" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;maxvdkolk&#x2F;vimwikigraph</a>
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BasilPHalmost 5 years ago
I personally found the archive[0] an excellent software to get started with a Zettelkasten. The forum and the blog posts on the site are great.<p>I&#x27;m also developing a CLI script to visualize your zettelkasten[1]. I mainly use it to print stats, like the number of connected components and find orphaned notes.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zettelkasten.de&#x2F;the-archive&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zettelkasten.de&#x2F;the-archive&#x2F;</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;BasilPH&#x2F;vizel" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;BasilPH&#x2F;vizel</a>
johnminteralmost 5 years ago
One needs to find a note-taking tool that fits one&#x27;s workflow. I do a lot of analysis using R and compose many documents in Rmarkdown using R-Studio. I keep a git repository with &quot;tips&quot; - one Rmarkdown document per subject area and master document that links all the others. I can access my notes from any computer and it is easy to keep them in sync. Like Zettelkasten&#x27;s creator, writing (and editing) these help refine my thinking.
zezalmost 5 years ago
Interesting, I keep coming across the technique but have yet to give a a try, I enjoy the thought of linking notes especially cross concept&#x2F;domain which I can imagine aids in learning and saving to both short&#x2F;long term memory<p>But rather than fumbling with cards it seems like an interesting use case for AR&#x2F;VR<p>I always thought VR&#x2F;AR would be very interesting in the studying&#x2F;notetaking space, are any of you working on something similar?
potasalmost 5 years ago
It looks like a simple tagging system with extra steps. Pretty much all modern blogs and social networks have tags&#x2F;hashtags. You can also refer to other posts with links.<p>Here the same idea is applied to notes, and I&#x27;m pretty sure it&#x27;s already been explored before (e.g. Bear app).<p>I feel like someone is trying to give a fancy name to an ordinary thing, so it would look like a fancy, innovative thing.
codeisawesomealmost 5 years ago
I found it interesting to consider that the people who leave lasting impact and legacy on the world, don’t have extensive note-taking or organisation systems (like I am anxiously given to do) or whatever else. That’s not what we remember them for.<p>Maybe a drive to “do” and “build” - and actually doing something about that - is far more important... I’m probably not articulating this properly.
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dschrammalmost 5 years ago
Nice to see that the &quot;Zettelkasten&quot; is getting more and more attention. We published an article about it on our blog a couple of months ago as well:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;emvi.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;luhmanns-zettelkasten-a-productivity-tool-that-works-like-your-brain-N9Gd2G4aPv" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;emvi.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;luhmanns-zettelkasten-a-productivity-t...</a>
kitdalmost 5 years ago
Does this work well for teams? Or does anyone know of a version of this that would do so?<p>I work on a large K8s-based project. Each person may know a lot about one small part of it, but when they need to find out about an unfamiliar part, they need to trawl through Slack messages or Github issues.<p>I could see something like this being really useful, assuming everyone is disciplined in using it.
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Kosirichalmost 5 years ago
It might sound kinda weird, but I see Azure DevOps Boards (or similar) an ideal system for implementing this. Why: 1) Small notes via User Stories (or tasks) 2) Has linking capabilites 3) Has TAGs 4) Visual representation of LINKS 5) Most of the grind associated with doing this via other systems is removed 6) Free &amp; you can download the data in .csv if needed<p>Thoughts?
Siddharth_joshialmost 5 years ago
I have followed a somewhat similar technique to zettelkasten-technique for cross-referencing information, and it has really helped deriving substantial perspective on the information presented. Hence, I believe this approach helps relate&#x2F;recall conceptual relationships while re-visiting those notes at a later time.
sharker8almost 5 years ago
This is not a cure-all. I started one, and much like a todo list, it stressed me out to look at the pile of cards.
danboarderalmost 5 years ago
I would like to understand how this note taking method is different than a hypertext wiki for notes? (e.g. TiddlyWiki) It seems very similar to use based on glancing through the examples in the article.<p>See <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tiddlywiki.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tiddlywiki.com</a> for example.
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pmdulaneyalmost 5 years ago
I started using the Zettelkasten approach for a side project (using The Archive) and it has a lot going for it, but one big minus: It felt like work rather than something fun.<p>I&#x27;ve reverted just to a combination of handwritten notes and notes files written in vim (which I find enjoyable).
cheschirealmost 5 years ago
I make sure to link my OneNote pages together by simply right clicking on a page and copying the link, then pasting it into another page.<p>When I want to find things, I use the search. If I was diligent about my taxonomy, then it&#x27;s effective.<p>Is there anything else to this system that I&#x27;m missing?
passer_chenalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;m using VSCode&#x2F;Markor to write notes and I&#x27;m using ripgrep to find the things I want to recall, it&#x27;s straightforward and easy to maintain. The method used in this post isn&#x27;t particularly convenient in mobile device.
BenGosubalmost 5 years ago
I am doing my daily journal in Roam and it&#x27;s very practical. Marketing or no marketing I think that the personal knowledge base is always best represented as a graph.
mgualtalmost 5 years ago
Is there a handwritten (stylus) notes software which can be used for this type of linking? I&#x27;m not talking about OCR, but handwritten&#x2F;drawn as default format.
kentosialmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;m finding this a concept a little hard to understand, but it vaguely sounds like a system involving hyperlinkable notes.<p>Wouldn&#x27;t vimwiki basically accomplish this?
keylealmost 5 years ago
Isn&#x27;t this how everyone takes notes?<p>Apple notes is geared towards this without the linking but you can hashtag the topics as you write notes and the search is very good.
jimothyhalpert7almost 5 years ago
How is this different to - making a note for every idea in an article - putting a hashtag of the article name and the idea name in the note ?
wendyshualmost 5 years ago
There&#x27;s some optimal place between writing nothing down and writing everything down. I don&#x27;t think this is that optimal place.
auggierosealmost 5 years ago
Don&#x27;t know how these systems work, but I can recommend Quiver for note-taking. You can link to other notes from within notes.
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andi999almost 5 years ago
If I take a note, then I shd cross reference it. But how do I find the cross reference? Do I have to remember it? Anybody help?
KayLalmost 5 years ago
Zettelkasten looks like a blogging system for notes, isn&#x27;t it? Write a piece of notes and tagging it.
DevKoalaalmost 5 years ago
Use a system that lets you add tags to your notes for quick indexing.
mateszalmost 5 years ago
I wonder what Ted Nelson would say to that :)
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BiteCode_devalmost 5 years ago
Isn&#x27;t what hypertext links are for ?
wruzaalmost 5 years ago
That is a mindmap, isn’t it?
kragenalmost 5 years ago
Maybe a description of my notetaking practice will be useful to others. I don&#x27;t know if this is strictly a &quot;Zettelkasten&quot; or not.<p>My note box for the last little while is Dercuano: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;canonical.org&#x2F;~kragen&#x2F;dercuano" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;canonical.org&#x2F;~kragen&#x2F;dercuano</a>. The notes are longer than a single index card (there are 882 notes averaging about 1300 words each), and they are hierarchically organized into sections and subsections. They often include links to other notes or other web pages, and they also have a chronological order and a set of tags. And I frequently grep them. I kept them in Git to keep them synchronized across different computers.<p>Typically a single note draws from many sources, and I tried to keep their contents in a readable order, which is easier to do on a computer where you can insert stuff in the middle. Some notes are one afternoon&#x27;s thoughts, while others got added to and reorganized for years. So that&#x27;s one way I make connections: I add hyperlinks, new data, explanations of how and why the entire rest of a note is wrong, new sources, etc. Another is that the process of writing a note involves bringing together different ideas, since few of the notes are just summaries of things others have written.<p>I learned a lot writing Dercuano, but in the end I was more frustrated than effective. I have a series of paper notebooks that are much less voluminous, only a few hundred pages a year, which are worse for text and hyperlinks, but much better for drawing, even things like schematics. Computers offer the potential of doing simulation, calculation, logic, optimization, rendering, data analysis, and data integration, the things that Engelbart and Kay envisioned in the 1960s. Yet Dercuano is stuck in the textual world without even transclusion or sketches. A much better medium is possible.<p>And we have lots of examples: spreadsheets, Jupyter notebooks, observable explanations in JS, diagrams in KSeg or GeoGebra, Observablehq and all of Bostock&#x27;s previous excellent work. These show us that a better medium is achievable. But incorporating such a model into a note like the ones in Dercuano maybe requires some UI work. I mean the whole revolution of VisiCalc was that you could see the results of your calculation as you changed the calculation, and that doesn&#x27;t really fit well into editing text files in Emacs.<p>Things like Darius Bacon&#x27;s Doe and Halp do go some distance toward that integration for textual output. And R-Markdown integrates statistical analysis and data visualization with text, and Ward&#x27;s Smallest Federated Wiki incorporates different media types on one page, including bytebeat. And I understand that org-mode SRC blocks offer the possibility of displaying image output inline. Still, none of these seem like they can scale to interactively doing a compass-and-straightedge construction or drawing a schematic for an analog circuit. Maybe I&#x27;m dismissing them too readily?<p>So I&#x27;m trying to figure out what this looks like in <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;kragen&#x2F;derctuo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;kragen&#x2F;derctuo</a>.
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modzualmost 5 years ago
i feel better about having dozens of sticky notes all over my desk now
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tasogarealmost 5 years ago
&gt; Though it’s still early days, adopting a Zettelkasten has been one of my most productive habits.<p>If productivity is measured against the volume of notes taken, sure. Otherwise probably not. Notes are an intermediate step to build something else, which is the real output on which productivity is usually measured.
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