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Weirdos in the depression

389 pointsby johndcookalmost 5 years ago

35 comments

throwaway_jobsalmost 5 years ago
&gt; Doc has a beard, and people are always asking him why he has a beard. Doc learned a long time ago that it makes people angry and suspicious if he tells the truth<p>I purposely have a big ole homeless looking beard specifically to keep people at arms length.<p>Ironically one time in a single weekend it backfired twice...on a Friday while doing planks&#x2F;pushups on a yoga mat in a park I was attacked by someone yelling “get out of my country” because they thought I was a Muslim praying to Mecca. Then the very next day I went to fresh market and ordered bacon and baby back ribs from the butcher and was confronted in the store by a man who followed me into the parking lot to attack me for being a bad Jew and ordering bacon and ribs on the sabbath.<p>I’m neither Muslim nor Jewish, and even after learning this neither of my attackers were apologetic.
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jaspaxalmost 5 years ago
I have my doubts that being a weirdo is actually that much easier today, and I see that others have made the same point. However, the kinds of things that qualify as weird have definitely shifted. Wanna be gay? Sure, no problem (in most cities in most parts of the western world). Want to avoid sending your kids to formal schooling, sell things out of the back of your truck, or avoid working a full-time job? Expect to get a lot of hassle both from society and from the state.
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lddalmost 5 years ago
&gt; “Lee. Got more name. Lee papa family name. Call Lee.”<p>“I’ve read quite a lot about China. You born in China?”<p>“No. Born here.”<p>Samuel was silent for quite a long time while the buggy lurched down the wheel track toward the dusty valley. ““Lee,” he said at last, “I mean no disrespect, but I’ve never been able to figure why you people still talk pidgin when an illiterate baboon from the black bogs of Ireland, with a head full of Gaelic and a tongue like a potato, learns to talk a poor grade of English in ten years.”<p>Lee grinned. “Me talkee Chinese talk,” he said.<p>“Well, I guess you have your reasons. And it’s not my affair. I hope you’ll forgive me if I don’t believe it, Lee.”<p>Lee looked at him and the brown eyes under their rounded upper lids seemed to open and deepen until they weren’t foreign any more, but man’s eyes, warm with understanding. Lee chuckled.<p>“It’s more than a convenience,” he said. “It’s even more than self-protection. Mostly we have to use it to be understood at all.”<p>Samuel showed no sign of having observed any change. “I can understand the first two,” he said thoughtfully, “but the third escapes me.”<p>Lee said, “I know it’s hard to believe, but it has happened so often to me and to my friends that we take if for granted. If I should go up to a lady or a gentleman, for instance, and speak as I am doing now, I wouldn’t be understood.”<p>“Why not?”<p>“Pidgin they expect, and pidgin they’ll listen to. But English from me they don’t listen to, and so they don’t understand it.” “Can that be possible? How do I understand you?”<p>“That’s why I’m talking to you. You are one of the rare people who can separate your observation from your preconception. You see what is, where most people see what they expect.”<p>- East of Eden, John Steinbeck
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officemonkeyalmost 5 years ago
Mezz Mezzrow was a Jewish C-list Jazz clarinetist from Chicago that was active during the depression.<p>He was also a successful marijuana dealer to the Jazz community. He married a black woman, moved to Harlem, and called himself a &quot;voluntary Negro.&quot; When he was arrested at the Worlds Fair (60 marijuana cigarettes with intent to distribute) he convinced the cops he was black and thus was housed with black prisoners.<p>He was good friends with Louis Armstrong and has such a cult status among Jazz fans that there&#x27;s a NYC Jazz Club named in his honor.<p>As Dylan wrote &quot;To live outside the law, you must be honest.&quot; Especially so when conformity was life-threatening.
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geocrasheralmost 5 years ago
I think that it&#x27;s not easier to be accepted because you&#x27;re an oddball. I think it&#x27;s easier to accept <i>yourself</i> as an oddball. People all over the Internet are oddballs to the greatest degree, and they aren&#x27;t outcasts- they&#x27;re founders, CEO&#x27;s and engineers. I am personally a Nobody, which I&#x27;m completely fine with, but I let my geek flag fly. I am unapologetic about any of the things I&#x27;m into, whether it be science, &quot;maker&quot; scene type stuff, ham radio stuff, or even religion. I am who I am. I&#x27;ve accepted it, and I expect others to accept it <i>if they want to</i>. I&#x27;m really okay with people thinking I&#x27;m a weirdo. I kind of <i>am</i> in a lot of ways, but I don&#x27;t care. Back then, you had to care. And in some cases, you still do.
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aminozuuralmost 5 years ago
I can think of some examples in my own life where I felt like I had to &#x27;larp&#x27; (pretend) in order to fit into the community I was part of. Luckily, I&#x27;ve stopped giving a fuck as I&#x27;ve grown older.
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chrischattinalmost 5 years ago
Interesting thought.<p>I think the weirdos today look a little different than the classic stereotype. Being a geek&#x2F;nerd actually became cool. In the 90&#x27;s, it really was only the weirdos who were into programming and computers. Coming out of the closet used to be very risky. Not just socially, but you opened yourself up to real physical danger. It took a lot of guts to be honest with yourself and openly be who you were. Now, being gay is fashionable.<p>Look that the things that aren&#x27;t considered cool to do&#x2F;say&#x2F;think today and you&#x27;ll find the weirdos. I think they make our world richer.
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5cott0almost 5 years ago
I did it to protect my good reputation in case anyone ever caught me walking around with crab apples in my cheeks. With rubber balls in my hands I could deny there were crab apples in my cheeks. Everytime someone asked me why I was walking around with crab apples in my cheeks, I&#x27;d just open my hands and show them it was rubber balls I was walking around with, not crab apples, and that they were in my hands, not my cheeks. It was a good story, but I never knew if it got across or not, since its pretty hard to make people understand you when your talking to them with two crab apples in your cheeks.<p>- Catch 22
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forintialmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve just read a nice little contemporary Japanese book about a woman who has a hard time not being &quot;normal&quot;: Convenience Store Woman.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Convenience_Store_Woman" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Convenience_Store_Woman</a>
adamcalmost 5 years ago
The envelope is a little bigger, but it&#x27;s still hard. Try working with facial tattoos, or (if you are male), wearing anklets to work. Or being polyamorous in a lot of contexts. I could go on...<p>At enormous costs, gay people and others have widened certain channels a little, but the mindset of conformity still drives us -- so thoroughly that it was even hard to think of examples, a second ago. We are socialized in childhood, and later from our teenage peers, not to step outside the norms for our communities.<p>We fear to be different, and we fear the different, and it isn&#x27;t even clear why. Why should I care if someone else is walking around naked? Why should I care if my coworker has tattoos? Or a thousand other things.
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galoisgirlalmost 5 years ago
It&#x27;s still hard to challenge stereotypes.<p>You&#x27;re not white, where are you from? Michigan? But where are you <i>really</i> from?<p>You&#x27;ve lost weight, how did you do it? Eat less? No, you must have found some magical shortcut, you just don&#x27;t want to reveal your secret.
LandRalmost 5 years ago
I think it depends what you mean by weirdo.<p>It&#x27;s much easier to have odd interests nowadays and wierd hobbies because you can counter it by dressing well, good personal grooming and being in shape.<p>People are very accomodating of peculiar people nowadays as long as your are aesthetically pleasing to look at.<p>I don&#x27;t know if that&#x27;s forward progress or it&#x27;s just shifted sideways.
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chiasalmost 5 years ago
&gt; I think it must be a lot easier to be a weird misfit now than it was in 1935.<p>Jane doesn&#x27;t have children, and people are always asking her why she doesn&#x27;t have children. Jane learned a long time ago that it makes people angry and suspicious if she tells the truth, which is that she doesn&#x27;t have children because she doesn&#x27;t want children. So she&#x27;s in the habit of explaining that she can&#x27;t have children as a result of a medically necessary hysterectomy. Then people are okay with it and even sympathetic. (There was no hysterectomy.)<p>Some things don&#x27;t change all that much.
dan-robertsonalmost 5 years ago
I like the examples but I’m not sure I agree with the conclusion. An alternative argument is that it’s in some sense easier to be a weirdo or misfit today because much of what was a weirdo or misfit in 1935 is now accepted today (though I guess other things aren’t)
throwaway98797almost 5 years ago
Society tells you to be honest but then only let’s you be free if you lie.
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staredalmost 5 years ago
For another example: &quot;Winnie the Pooh&quot;. Every character seems to be affected by a disorder (vide <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fantheories.fandom.com&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Winnie_the_Pooh" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fantheories.fandom.com&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Winnie_the_Pooh</a>), but it is fine. They accept each other as they are.
LeonMalmost 5 years ago
&gt; So he&#x27;s in the habit of explaining that the beard covers up an ugly scar. Then people are okay with it and even sympathetic.<p>Hah! My dad does the same thing with his mustache.<p>People keep bothering him about his unusually large mustache, so he always tells people it is to cover a cleft lip.
henearkralmost 5 years ago
I can&#x27;t even begin to tell how hard it is to be weirdo (e.g. vegan, teetotaller) even nowadays in some (although very much developped) societies like Japan. I am both (vegan &amp; teetotaller), working in Japan, and a substantial part of my coworkers were mad at me. Another coworker is vegetarian because of some health condition, and nobody bothers him.
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photonemitteralmost 5 years ago
I just remembered reading something years back about how “because” is a magical word.<p>People are surprisingly more susceptible and accepting of any request if you add a “because X” where the reason can be almost entirely arbitrary.<p>Examples included “can I cut in line, because I’m parked in a tow-away zone”, which resulted in something like 70% compliance vs 10-20% if the person didn’t proffer the added “because”<p>Was also examples of ridiculous ones like “can I use the photocopier before you (to a person copying 2 pages), because I have to make 200 copies of this (significantly bigger paper)” Surprisingly this also got a higher rate of compliance even though the request did not make any sense per-se.<p>TL;DR: Providing an explanation for any questionable request “closes” the narrative in a sense. The person now feels there is a justification for whatever made the situation weird to begin with, and therefore the situation no longer requires them to come up with justifications on their own.<p>(Brains&#x2F;minds being lazy and whatnot)
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bitwizealmost 5 years ago
&gt; Mr. Raymond explains he is not actually a drunk, he only pretends to be one so that the ⸢respectable⸣ people will write him off, stay off his back about his black spouse and kids, and leave him alone. If they think it&#x27;s because he&#x27;s an alcoholic they can fit it into their worldview and let it go, which they wouldn&#x27;t do if they suspected the truth, which is that it&#x27;s his choice.<p>Rick: Y&#x27;see, Morty? It&#x27;s just like I always said: there&#x27;s an upside to being a drunk. It means people leave you alone, and they won&#x27;t bother you with their stupid opinions on whatever it is you&#x27;re doing that they know nothing about.<p>Morty: Uh, gee, Rick, I don&#x27;t think that justifies annihilating universe G-435 on a bender...<p>Rick: Shut up Morty. That was a calculated risk. P<i>burp</i>eople who don&#x27;t take risks are like Galvani&#x27;s frog legs: twitching, but not really alive.
peterwwillisalmost 5 years ago
&gt; I think it must be a lot easier to be a weird misfit now than it was in 1935.<p>Everything is easier for people now than it was in 1935.
Reraromalmost 5 years ago
I had a professor who drank (presumably water) from a vodka bottle during an exam to mess with us.
motohagiographyalmost 5 years ago
The same is true now. People can be unforgiving if you challenge or change their world views, because while interesting, you have deprived them of psychological safety and the infallibility of their senses and beliefs. Worse, you may have infected them and exposed them to your weirdo social exile. What has changed is normal world views encompass more variation as a result of things like communications tech, seeing earth from the moon and space, adapting to urbanization and globalization, but there are still edges, and some very hard boundaries.<p>I used to be a weirdo, now I&#x27;m more of an intellectual traveller. Definitely from somewhere, just not here.
criddellalmost 5 years ago
The last (and only) Steinbeck I read was <i>Grapes of Wrath</i> in high school and 17 year old me thought it was okay.<p>Would <i>Cannery Row</i> be a good choice for somebody who wants to give Steinbeck another try?
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at_a_removealmost 5 years ago
Personally, I believe that there is a Conservation of Weirdness going on. Certain things are outside of the statistical norm (or mode, or whatever terminology you choose), with varying degrees of acceptability. What is acceptable now might not have been acceptable then, but something else will have become unacceptable in its place.<p>The current acceptability is a factor in determining how many Weirdo Points you accumulate for your various abnormalities.
diffrinsealmost 5 years ago
American society in particular is ultra-legalistic but supplements the bareness of context with unwritten rules, some communicated in code, in implicit ideations (the ongoing looting in major cities are referred to as &quot;violent&quot;), some through passive observation or mimesis (like learning how to stare at African-Americans from one&#x27;s avowed liberal parents).
RookyNumbasalmost 5 years ago
Doc may have been a weirdo, but he was also the most popular and liked person in the entire town. The plot revolves around people trying to throw parties for him because they think he&#x27;s so great.<p>Today, no matter your weirdness, it&#x27;s likely been productized and advertised to the masses in some way.
agumonkeyalmost 5 years ago
I get seriously torn about resorting to trickstery to live in society. I&#x27;d rather live in the woods than faking human relationships, but society seems to force that upon us too often.
technothrasheralmost 5 years ago
&gt; Doc has a whim to try drinking a beer milkshake<p>Yeah, I had that same whim one time back about twenty five years ago... Let&#x27;s just say that the idea of a beer milkshake is much better than the reality.
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cafardalmost 5 years ago
Of course the option is open to those in power also. Doesn&#x27;t Boris Johnson&#x27;s disheveled hair signify to all that he isn&#x27;t to be relied on for accuracy, truth, or judgment?
fnord123almost 5 years ago
Both of these books are fiction. I don&#x27;t see how any conclusions can be drawn about how easy or hard it is to be a weirdo in any particular time.
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ravenstinealmost 5 years ago
I see this phenomenon as similar to the noble lie, except that it&#x27;s to avoid personal trouble as opposed to some other altruistic reason.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Noble_lie" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Noble_lie</a><p>I&#x27;ve told my share of personal noble lies because many people can&#x27;t let go of irrational causes behind my actions. In order for them to easily accept my eccentricities, I have to provide a rationale, even though I&#x27;m well aware that many of the thing that I do are not motivated by reason but instead my unconscious.<p>There&#x27;s more minor reason that I tell personal noble lies, which is that if someone asks me why I do X thing, and I actually tell them the truth, said truth is usually ridiculously simple, in which case they think that I&#x27;m blowing them off. In these cases, it&#x27;s better for interpersonal relations for me to have either a canned story , or make something up on the fly, that&#x27;s more interesting than the real one.<p>The first example that comes to mind is my father, whom is a great man in my eyes but, if we haven&#x27;t talked in a while, he will ask me &quot;What do you eat these days?&quot; Depending on whether I&#x27;m trying to lose weight, I may have literally no rhyme or reason behind my eating habits. Often times, I couldn&#x27;t tell you what it is that I tend to eat or have eaten. If I told my father &quot;I don&#x27;t know. I eat lots of things and don&#x27;t think about it much.&quot;, I can tell that he interprets that as me trying to end the discussion. In that case, I don&#x27;t necessarily make up a total lie, but I will try and remember the things I ate in the last few days and then speak like those are the things that I eat all the time, and I might even say something like &quot;I eat the steak and eggs a lot because I&#x27;m trying to build some muscle.&quot;<p>Another example has to do with my mode of dress. Anyone who knows me knows that I wear the exact same outfit 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I wear a black t-shirt that&#x27;s well fitting, jeans, and dress shoes. This is a bit of a strange outfit to some, and the dress shoes are funny to most people. The real reason that I dress this way is that I don&#x27;t want to waste time and brain power deciding what to wear and in what combination; I don&#x27;t care what I look like so long as what I look like is acceptable and fits my self image. This is not a satisfactory answer to most people, in my experience, and I suspect it&#x27;s because they simply don&#x27;t relate. The average person doesn&#x27;t see the value in removing unnecessary choice from their daily routine, and their choice to wear a particular garment may indeed be necessary to them. So what I tell them is that I like to wear black because it doesn&#x27;t stain, and I wear the dress shoes because they happen to be very water resistant when I step through puddles.
stcredzeroalmost 5 years ago
<i>I think it must be a lot easier to be a weird misfit now than it was in 1935.</i><p>In Columbia, SC in the 1990&#x27;s, all of us misfits hung out with each other. We had wildly diverse world views. We even had heated arguments with each other at times. However, we were all vaguely united in our being non-mainstream. If there were cliques, they could have their own gatherings without any outsiders, but we also shared lots of spaces. The only people ever ostracized were the Nazi Punks.<p>However, the World Music folks, eastern religion&#x2F;woo enthusiasts, Old Timey music people, Rude Boys&#x2F;Rude Girls, metalheads, punks (of several varieties), alternative music crowd, Harley motorbike enthusiasts, some of the Baptist street preachers&#x2F;missionaries, neo-hippies, actual hippies, etc...we all hung out at the same cafes and music venues.<p>In the 21st century Bay Area, I find a lot more cliquishness of a particular aggressive, conformist kind. There can be this kind of quizzing&#x2F;seeking for what you &quot;really think,&quot; which might well be followed by judgments based on shallow outward signifiers and even outright verbal aggression. In years past, I never experienced something like that, outside of certain of the most intolerant religious&#x2F;homophobic&#x2F;ethnic zealots, usually sparked off by my appearance and&#x2F;or ethnicity.<p><pre><code> Subdivisions In the high school halls In the shopping malls Conform or be cast out Subdivisions In the basement bars In the backs of cars Be cool or be cast out</code></pre>
new2628almost 5 years ago
The stories are charming. I find the last sentence hopelessly naive.
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zevebalmost 5 years ago
&gt; I think it must be a lot easier to be a weird misfit now than it was in 1935.<p>I think it just depends. Some things are more accepted, others less.<p>It might be pretty career-limiting if one admitted that the reason one never works Sunday mornings is because one is at church.
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