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Syncthing is everything I used to love about computers

306 pointsby mrzoolalmost 5 years ago

33 comments

yogthosalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve come to realize that open source is the only type of software worth investing into. No matter how great a commercial piece of software might be, sooner or later it&#x27;s going to either disappear or change in a way that doesn&#x27;t suit you. Commercial software has to constantly chase profit for the company to stick around. This necessarily means that the product has to continue evolving to chase what&#x27;s currently in vogue. And if a company fails to do that, then it will die and the software will stopped being developed.<p>This is a bad situation to be in as a user since you have little control over the evolution of a product that you rely on. Instead of the product being adapted to your needs, it&#x27;s you who has to adapt to the way the product evolves, or spend the time investing in a different product.<p>On the other hand, open source has a very different dynamic. Projects can survive with little or no commercial incentive because they&#x27;re often developed by the users who themselves benefit from these projects. Projects can also be easily forked and taken in different directions by different groups of users. Even when projects become abandoned, they can be picked up again by new teams.<p>Evolution of GNOME is a great example of this. There are now many flavors of GNOME all catering to different workflows, and users don&#x27;t have to compromise their preferred way of doing things to chase how GNOME is evolving. Meanwhile, users of Windows or MacOS have very little choice but to continue adjusting to the ways Apple and Microsoft choose to evolve the desktop. Microsoft even uses DMCA to prevent users from doing customization. [1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;torrentfreak.com&#x2F;removing-annoying-windows-10-features-is-a-dmca-violation-microsoft-says-200611&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;torrentfreak.com&#x2F;removing-annoying-windows-10-featur...</a>
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jwralmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve been using syncthing for several months now, syncing lots of files (code under active development) between a total of five computers, Linux and MacOS.<p>It&#x27;s been fantastic.<p>It works well, it gets the job done, it doesn&#x27;t pester you with notifications and upsells. It also doesn&#x27;t eat all of your CPU&#x2F;battery by watching changes everywhere, like Dropbox does. And it doesn&#x27;t try to get at your photos. And other stuff.<p>I have not run into a single problem with it over the course of several months now, which is impressive.<p>I am about to sign up and start sponsoring it on a monthly basis — I started doing this recently with open-source software that I rely on. If everybody chipped in, we&#x27;d be in a world of great sustainable software, with people able to make a living on developing solutions like this.<p>BTW, a plug for another similarly impressive piece of software: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vpncloud.ddswd.de" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vpncloud.ddswd.de</a> — if you need to set up an encrypted VPN between a bunch of servers.
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athoraxalmost 5 years ago
Title might be better as: Syncthing is everything I used to love about computers.
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dreamcompileralmost 5 years ago
I applaud everything in this article except this:<p>&gt; Calendar sync? Why on Earth would FILE SYNCHRONIZATION application wants to access my calendar?<p>It&#x27;s very handy to have shared calendars across multiple devices. Dropbox&#x27;s advertised solution for this is garbage because I have no interest in letting Google or Outlook manage my calendars.<p>But there&#x27;s another solution that used to work with Dropbox that doesn&#x27;t any more. And the breakage is Apple&#x27;s fault, not Dropbox&#x27;s. Say you have two Macs and you want their Calendar apps to be in sync. Further, you don&#x27;t want to use iCloud because you know from painful experience that Apple has no idea how to sync anything properly. It used to be possible to move ~&#x2F;Library&#x2F;Calendars to Dropbox and put a folder symlink in its place. If you do this on both machines, Dropbox automagically syncs your calendars. But in later versions of MacOS when you replace Library folders with symlinks the apps in question stop working. Thanks Apple. Looks like Syncthing might fix this problem for me again, and I won&#x27;t even need Dropbox any more.
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anderspitmanalmost 5 years ago
&gt; Commercial solutions are interested in keeping users locked in and constantly upselling more features to them. As a result of that, you get notifications, features, popups.<p>At this point I&#x27;m pretty convinced that non open source software simply isn&#x27;t viable for end-user applications and tools. The incentives don&#x27;t work. You always end up with upsells&#x2F;ads, insane missing features, bad UX, etc.<p>Closed source seems to work fairly well for some things like OSes, games, and perhaps some big-contract B2B, but not for apps.
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Syzygiesalmost 5 years ago
I am a long-term user of Unison (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cis.upenn.edu&#x2F;~bcpierce&#x2F;unison&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cis.upenn.edu&#x2F;~bcpierce&#x2F;unison&#x2F;</a>) from the command line, to synchronize directories between my machines. If Unison weren&#x27;t available, from studying the Syncthing documentation it would be my next choice.<p>You wouldn&#x27;t think that writing synchronization software would be rocket science, but apparently it is: Unison&#x27;s author is Benjamin C. Pierce, a prominent computer scientist and author of &quot;Types and Programming Languages&quot;. Together with an active user community, he makes the correct call on some key design decisions.<p>I have tested many alternatives to expose these issues. I have not tested Syncthing, as this HN post is so poorly titled that it would sync into oblivion before I could complete the tests. I recommend writing your favorite sync software author if you find their handling of these issues problematic, though expect defensive replies.<p>[1] Symbolic links. They should be copied as is, not considered for their semantic content. Would you want sync software taking a half hour break if it found porn on your computer? Why should it think about symbolic links, either? It is your responsibility that they have some meaning on the target machine. Unison and Syncthing copy Unix symbolic links. All other programs wreck them or follow them. It confuses matters that some users beg for such behavior, in hopes of extending the capabilities of sync software beyond their original design.<p>On MacOS an application bundle, not meant to be examined by casual users, can contain internal symbolic links, for example from &quot;latest&quot; to a versioned directory. Software that mangles this will claim that it isn&#x27;t meant for &quot;system files&quot; as if that is some dangerous art. It is not; they are simply handling symbolic links wrong.<p>[2] &quot;Atomic&quot; directories. If one has for example a MacOS sparse disk image open on two machines, and makes conflicting changes, one cannot simply merge the pieces, deciding arbitrarily on conflicting index files. Think of the movie &quot;The Fly&quot;. A sparse disk image is again a directory of many files. This has many advantages, including ease of incremental backup. However, one needs to decide which copy to keep in case of conflict, at the directory level.<p>Unison has a way to declare this. I&#x27;ve never seen other software with this capability. This also applies for example to .git directories.<p>[3] Interactive conflict management. Using Unison, one chooses interactively how to resolve conflicts before committing to the sync. I sync many gigabytes of data, and I have no interest in dealing later with scattered renamed copies of files, many of which matter to automated tools and will never see my manual attention. I either choose a preferred copy at the time of sync, or I abort and fix the problem before the sync.<p>I prefer Unison&#x27;s handling here to Syncthing.
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anderspitmanalmost 5 years ago
syncthing is an incredible piece of software.<p>It should be noted that:<p>* &quot;Security&quot; changes in recent versions of Android seem designed to kill use cases like syncthing. See links below.<p>* There is no iOS version, as near as I can tell because iOS is already where Android is headed.<p>The crux of the problem is syncthing is a single golang binary, but the only way to manage filesystem permissions on iOS (and now Android) is through tightly controlled OS dialogs, and there is no way to do this from golang. There aren&#x27;t even NDK APIs for it. The closest thing Android is providing to an escape hatch is &quot;all files access&quot; [5], for which your app has to go through an approval process in order to be put on the play store. If you watch [2], GOOG makes it very clear that they want to minimize the number of apps that obtain this permission. It&#x27;s unclear to me whether apps installed through FDroid or side-loaded will be able to use that permission at all, or if the APKs must be signed.<p>I&#x27;m all for improved security, but never at the cost of controlling what I am ABLE to do with my computer.<p>It&#x27;s sad that our operating systems are turning into gatekeepers between developers&#x2F;users and the hardware they &quot;own&quot;.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;syncthing&#x2F;syncthing-android&#x2F;issues&#x2F;29" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;syncthing&#x2F;syncthing-android&#x2F;issues&#x2F;29</a><p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.xda-developers.com&#x2F;android-q-storage-access-framework-scoped-storage&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.xda-developers.com&#x2F;android-q-storage-access-fram...</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=UnJ3amzJM94&amp;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=UnJ3amzJM94&amp;</a><p>[3]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19506544" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19506544</a><p>[4]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;commonsware.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2019&#x2F;03&#x2F;25&#x2F;death-external-storage-what-now.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;commonsware.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2019&#x2F;03&#x2F;25&#x2F;death-external-stora...</a><p>[5]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.android.com&#x2F;preview&#x2F;privacy&#x2F;storage#all-files-access" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.android.com&#x2F;preview&#x2F;privacy&#x2F;storage#all-fi...</a>
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_bxg1almost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve been thinking about switching to a self-hosted solution over the last couple years as Dropbox has gotten increasingly annoying. But I always assumed that would mean spending a weekend fighting with config files and trawling forums, and unlike iCloud, the core product of Dropbox has continued to work well enough for my needs. But after seeing how incredibly simple it is to set up Syncthing, I may go ahead and take the plunge.
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LeoPantheraalmost 5 years ago
I agree with all of this - except for the part about the iCloud Drive path containing a space being a problem.<p>That should <i>not</i> be a problem, and if it is, it&#x27;s a huge flaw in the software you are using, and you should file a bug. (Or if it&#x27;s your software, fix it.)<p>Seriously, UNIX has supported spaces in filenames since the 70s.
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dylan-malmost 5 years ago
I set up Syncthing with an extra always-connected node on a NUC and it has been glorious :) Added Nextcloud on there for an easy way to share files with other people, and for more polished photo upload from my phone, contacts and calendar sync. The two work together great.<p>The fact that it&#x27;s so transparent is an interesting point. I&#x27;m very used to Dropbox reminding me it exists all the time, whereas Syncthing just quietly works. (I wouldn&#x27;t mind if syncthing-gtk provided a bit more information in its dashboard, though, like the number of changes sent &#x2F; received in the past hour. Sometimes I feel like I&#x27;m just trusting that it&#x27;s doing the right thing).
rcarmoalmost 5 years ago
For the record, since nobody mentioned it in the past three days or so, SyncThing does not sync extended attributes, which makes it lose data (mostly metadata, but _useful_ metadata like file tags, and other info that traditional apps store alongside the data fork) when syncing some macOS files.<p>YMMV, but right now it find it more useful for source code trees than media projects (or any kind of macOS bundle).
butzalmost 5 years ago
Is there any way to sync encrypted data to non-trusted server with Syncthing? I would like to have encrypted off-site backup.
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coffeelingalmost 5 years ago
This honestly sounds like &quot;FOSS advocate yells at cloud&quot;.<p>Many things the article paints as bad are pretty much &quot;I like vanilla ice cream&quot; level arguments, not actual faults.<p>eg. log in vs. generate and exchange codes.<p>&quot;Sharing is so easy, just exchange public keys&quot;. Yes, and sharing with a serverside cloud storage solution is as easy as giving someone the link or typing their email into a share dialog, <i>and I don&#x27;t have to do jack anymore</i>. It&#x27;s completely onesided to share files is wanted and need be.<p>Not liking a default share folder is, again, personal preference. Having a dedicated cloud storage folder is nice and clear to most people.<p>Being able to pick and choose is a legit advantage, though.<p>&gt; How do you connect two devices, if there’s no registration, accounts, email, etc? Simple! &gt; Each device has a unique id, generated automatically when you first run the program. &gt; Share this id with another device, let them share their, and you are good to go.<p>Totally easier than typing your account info, right?<p>Also means you have to install an app while with traditional storage services you can just log into a webpage and grab what you need.<p>&gt; More “features”: &gt; &gt; Desktop sync, &gt; Photos sync, &gt; Screenshots sync. &gt; &gt; These are at least file-like? I don’t understand why they have to be “special features”, though, &gt; if you already have an app whose primary task is to sync files. It already does that. Why are some files more special than others? &gt; &gt; The answer is simple: the only way Dropbox can survive is by building and selling more features. You’ll never have peace of mind with them.<p>Highly tech-savvy FOSS advocate is oblivious to the existence of non-UNIX operating systems.<p>Most of these are summarizable as &quot;Dropbox sucks&quot; more than &quot;cloud storage services suck.&quot;
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pwenzelalmost 5 years ago
I love tools like this, but one of the reasons I use Dropbox is that storage and transfer costs are a constant. I also don&#x27;t have to worry about maintaining a publicly-accessible server in my home. Are there any cloud services that syncthing can connect to that are comparable in cost to that of Dropbox?
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canistelalmost 5 years ago
This strikes a chord, as we too made the switch from Dropbox to Syncthing recently. We also ended up using Syncthing-GTK, which is a cross-platform UI front-end for Syncthing. (For us the process does not get killed in Windows platforms when Syncthing-GTK exits, but we can live with us for the time being.)
pyrophanealmost 5 years ago
The amount of up-selling is showing me as a paying customer is pretty egregious. Multiple prompts to upgrade to a more expensive plan. Multiple disabled checkboxes and additional prompts about features I can&#x27;t use because I am only giving ~$120&#x2F;year.
AnIdiotOnTheNetalmost 5 years ago
&gt; You download a single binary executable. You run it. There’s no step three.<p>Indeed. I&#x27;d like to personally thank probonopd for AppImage making applications on Linux sane, if only for the relatively few projects distributing that way.
tjchearalmost 5 years ago
I thought about the kinds of system I would like that is no longer the norm today, and that would be low latency UIs, like those text-mode UIs.<p>If I were building a user-oriented web app today, this is what I&#x27;d do. Store data locally (using PouchDB or plain localStorage, optionally syncs to remote CouchDB that user owns), with optional MS-DOS era UI (using Bootstrap 386) for clarity and minimal distraction, keyboard shortcuts for all major operations (like Windows&#x27; Alt+Letter shortcuts for easy discovery), and avoid implementing user authentication where possible.
GeeDeezyalmost 5 years ago
1) I agree with what you shared mostly, and I love SyncThing! 2) I think you over exaggerated how difficult DropBox is. For typical users, just selecting the defaults is good enough, and let&#x27;s be honest DP is pretty rock solid. 3) I think you WAY under exaggerated how technical setting up SyncThing is .. for non-technical users. It was a stretch for me, it would be a nightmare for most of my users. 4) If ST is reliable (I am testing now), I can see some place I would like to use it.<p>Take care! Gary
jason0597almost 5 years ago
What the author doesn&#x27;t realise is that Dropbox is not aimed at programmers or people who know how to work a computer. For example, when he says &quot;And Dropbox? Well… I still have nightmares about this Dropbox UI &lt;picture&gt;&quot;, he doesn&#x27;t realise that to a &quot;normal&quot; person, the UI looks absolutely fine and easy to use, much easier than &quot;that horrible looking terminal! it must contain viruses and be dangerous!&quot;
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mileusna1almost 5 years ago
About .stignore ... Dropbox actually offers tool for power user to exclude files from syncing, and no, it is not the tool in UI from you post. As a developer I use it a lot to exclude folders bloated with compiler&#x2F;linker temp files from syncing.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.dropbox.com&#x2F;files-folders&#x2F;restore-delete&#x2F;ignored-files" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.dropbox.com&#x2F;files-folders&#x2F;restore-delete&#x2F;ignore...</a>
elagostalmost 5 years ago
Been using syncthing as a dropbox replacement since 2017 - It scales from a raspberry pi with a USB disk, to a docker container on my NAS. It even works if the devices aren&#x27;t on the same network via relays.<p>It has very low system load, there are basically zero dependencies, and you can run it on your android phone too.
dddwalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve tried switching to syncthing, but it consumed so many CPU cycles that I deed it unusable eventually
seaghostalmost 5 years ago
Synching but with cloud storage support like B2 or S3 compatibility is what I need.
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Epskampiealmost 5 years ago
Does syncthing still use filesystem polling to detect changes? That&#x27;s what turned me off it last time I tried it. Now I&#x27;m using Resilio Sync, but would prefer an open source solution.
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jftugaalmost 5 years ago
ST works great with my Android phone and syncing to my Windows 10 PC. What is a good solution to sync photos, music, contacts, etc from an iPhone to a PC? There is not a ST app for iPhones.
magwa101almost 5 years ago
The computer has become a commercial ad delivery device. No doubt. These days work on my computers makes me feel like I&#x27;m in AdOps optimizing their ad delivery to me.
nordicdynoalmost 5 years ago
«I can’t run bazel, etc. Useless.»<p>Can&#x27;t agree more on bazel&#x27;s usefulness :troll:
m4rc3lvalmost 5 years ago
Nice program. Too bad it can not sync with a phone.
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merojealmost 5 years ago
Good time to remind everyone that the password prompt from Dropbox (in the screenshots, located right below the &quot;Turn on notifications&quot; from the OS) is fake. They pretend to use the password only to turn on accessibility permissions.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forums.macrumors.com&#x2F;threads&#x2F;dropbox-responds-to-mac-security-risk-accusations-updated.1994702&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forums.macrumors.com&#x2F;threads&#x2F;dropbox-responds-to-mac...</a>
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betimslalmost 5 years ago
upspin from Go people is also a good one.
AtlasBarfedalmost 5 years ago
&quot;Control it by editing XML config&quot;<p>NOOOOOOOOOOO! So close! Ack! The example is blinding my eyes!<p>The example even shows arbitrary attribute-heavy vs tag-heavy mixing. Truly a blast from the past.
RcouF1uZ4gsCalmost 5 years ago
&gt; Syncthing has reminded me how great computers can be if they are not made by corporations. It’s simple, predictable, sane, acts no-nonsense.<p>Says someone running MacOS.
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