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Video Games Are the Future of Education

478 pointsby nqureshialmost 5 years ago

86 comments

speederalmost 5 years ago
I own a educational game company.<p>Long story short: it doesn&#x27;t sell.<p>At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games.<p>1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play.<p>2. Sell them to the public directly, but word of mouth here is often poor, specially if your age range is narrow, for example if your target is kids between 4 and 8, the kids will play the game, love it, but parents won&#x27;t tell other parents to buy it, most of their friends probably WON&#x27;T have kids the same age.<p>Thus if you are going for fun games, you need path 2, and to do path 2 you need a ton of exposure that is NOT word of mouth, we found out this means or you have massive marketing budget, or you have some kind of connection to media so they advertise you cheaper.<p>Our biggest competitors all ended being media companies themselves, for example Disney is an obvious one, but another was Toca-Boca, at first they looked like a tiny indie studio, but somehow they ALWAYS get featured in multiple magazines, store front pages and so on, eventually I found out they were created by a multi-billion media empire named Bonnier,<p>Since then I found that is easier to get money from creating other things, since I don&#x27;t have the necessary media connections.<p>Well, even NORMAL games often need media connectios (for example, Jon Blow was a journalist before he made Braid, Nintendo literally printed their own magazine for a while, the indie clique that existed around TIGSource was heavily tied to CMPMedia, many of them being presenters in events, or being friends of their employees, or working for them directly, the whole thing is very &quot;incestuous&quot;).
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adrianhonalmost 5 years ago
The author claims “where games mostly fall short is that they’re not that transferable to the real world. The skills you learn are highly specific to that game,” but “this will change,” because the cost of game development is decreasing. But his conclusion doesn’t follow; we might get more educational games, but not necessarily ones with skills that are more generalisable.<p>As someone who’s spent the last 15 years making “serious” or educational games, the larger problem is that while it’s hard enough to design a good game that’s fun, it’s even harder to design one that’s fun <i>and</i> educational. So hard that most designers simply don’t bother, especially since it isn’t that lucrative.
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tchaffeealmost 5 years ago
Hot takes from people with no experience in the field are only interesting to other people who have no experience in the field. It seems developers are particularly prone to this hubris. I don&#x27;t find many doctors writing about the future of programming languages, or teachers writing blogs about the future of medicine. Yet you can find thousands of these hot takes from developers about the future of education. Or pick your subject. Even worse you can find startups by these folks. Startups who are getting it wrong with people&#x27;s education.<p>I would have way more tolerance for these articles if they started with &quot;I have never studied education, I have not taught children, I haven&#x27;t done the homework or any reading on pedagogy, but I would like to do some thought experiments on hacking education...&quot;.<p>Brainstorming can be useful and bad ideas should be welcome during brainstorming. I understand why it is embraced on HN. But it has to be closer to the end of the spectrum of experts brainstorming than it is closer to the end of the spectrum of monkeys randomly typing a work of Shakespeare.<p>Imagine junior programmers brainstorming the future of cryptography. It&#x27;s just going to be cringe. Nothing significant is going to come out of it. Of course they should do it between themselves. And that&#x27;s where it should end.<p>As far as why video games are not the future of education, there are many things worth learning that are best learned by doing them, not by taking part in a simulation. Speaking and understanding a language, playing a musical instrument, painting, public speaking, tying knots, soldering electronics, using shop tools, and many more. All things I learned in public school and many of which I still use. My public school wasn&#x27;t amazing. I could point out many flaws. But the good teachers I had were pretty amazing. Take that human out of the picture and replace it with a video game and I would have learned far less.<p>If you want to know the things that could immediately be improved about public education and have a measurable positive outcome, talk to teachers and get ready for some pretty obvious answers that are generally going to require more money.<p>Does that mean video games don&#x27;t have any future in education? Of course not. But they are nothing near the silver bullet promised by the author.
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fullsharkalmost 5 years ago
Look at what the “elites” do to educate their kids. Do they long to put their kids in front of a computer to play video games or do they pay top dollar for tiny teacher:student ratios at great facilities with competent teachers&#x2F;leadership?<p>I can’t imagine anyone dealing with kids learning from home this lockdown and thinking education should be more technologically driven.
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jay_kyburzalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;m a game developer who just finished a few months of home schooling 2 kids, and I agree that games are the future of Education, but not for the same reason as the author.<p>1. I think we&#x27;ll eventually have software manage the progress of our children as they learn. It will present new ideas when they are ready for them, and test that old ideas stay fresh in memory. Software can do a better job than a teacher can, because the lessons can be tailored to the student. (rather than the whole class at once)<p>2. The software can do a better job at encouraging a student to &quot;want&quot; to do the tasks. Teachers can use praise, rewards, and sometimes punishments, but software can open up a whole world of other things. What happens next in a story? Leveling up characters or objects you care about? Competition? Mystery Boxes?<p>It was never fun to grind through killing 100 Goblins, but you did it so that you could get the magic sword at the end.<p>The hard part is not software development. The hard part is finding things that students want to work towards, then give them so much of it that they want to do it all day long for 13 years.
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pcmaffeyalmost 5 years ago
Video games will change education in the way that books changed education (speculation I know). They&#x27;re not a replacement for human discourse, for the teacher-pupil relationship, for social fitting, etc. But they make learning scalable and accessible in a way it wasn&#x27;t before.<p>I&#x27;m most hopeful we will see this in maths. I know this has been talked about for 40 years with computers, since Papert&#x27;s Mindstorms (highly recommended if you haven&#x27;t read it). But the potential to teach math through immersion as you would a native language IMO = the potential to leap society forward exponentially.<p>Why hasn&#x27;t it been built yet? Lots of comments in this thread already about the blocking incentive model and education system. 100%. I&#x27;d look instead outside the system, to something like Minecraft. Obviously, we don&#x27;t want to privatize education into the hands of some monocultured tech platform. But a diversity of games that teach different things to people at different levels? That supplement social education? That are fun first? eg. Here&#x27;s a basic word game I built that everyone seems to enjoy, and is also a great vocab lesson: (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.apple.com&#x2F;app&#x2F;esoterica&#x2F;id1505210583" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.apple.com&#x2F;app&#x2F;esoterica&#x2F;id1505210583</a>).<p>If we can find the right models to support such a diversity (we&#x27;re certainly not there yet), I see great promise in that future.
kemydalmost 5 years ago
Related: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;notesfrompoland.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;06&#x2F;18&#x2F;poland-puts-computer-game-this-war-of-mine-on-school-reading-list&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;notesfrompoland.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;06&#x2F;18&#x2F;poland-puts-computer-...</a><p>Quote:<p>Poland’s government will add the computer game This War Of Mine to the official reading list for children in schools, the prime minister has announced during a visit to the developer of the game, Warsaw-based 11 bit studios.<p>“Poland will be the first country in the world that puts its own computer game into the education ministry’s reading list,” said Mateusz Morawiecki, quoted by Polsat News. “Young people use games to imagine certain situations [in a way] no worse than reading books.”
lubujacksonalmost 5 years ago
What consistently gets missed in educational software is that it tries to teach rote memorization through gameplay rather than process. Games excel at teaching process quickly - learn by doing, learn by experiencing. And yet we have had 30+ years of crappy games about jumping on the right number to learn multiplication tables.<p>Games should supplement traditional education, not attempt to replace it. They should fill in the gaps and extend what can be taught. Teach the scientific method through a mystery game where you have to compound evidence to validate a theory (or better yet, invalidate it - equally valuable). Instead of math word problems have characters with problems you can solve using various methods - don&#x27;t make the player do the math, train them to identify the right tool to use (a geometry problem, an algebra problem, a calculus problem).<p>Fill in those educational gaps that people only improve by stumbling in the dark.
wespiser_2018almost 5 years ago
Perhaps, but if there is one thing we know, it&#x27;s that massive online courses do not work well as we have currently tried them. Students don&#x27;t come back year to year, and engagement throughout the course is very low [1]. Using a video game might help solve the engagement problem, but I would be hard pressed to think benefit of using a video game (increased engagement in the learning process) would be worth the 10-100x development cost with considerably more risk.<p>Where I think video games can excel is in more niche applications like Kerbal Space Program, not teaching something like European Literature.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joseruiperez.me&#x2F;papers&#x2F;journals&#x2F;2019_Science_MOOCPivot_postprint.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joseruiperez.me&#x2F;papers&#x2F;journals&#x2F;2019_Science_MOOCPiv...</a>
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jimbob45almost 5 years ago
Nope. Human contact is the future of education. Rent-seeking scumbags trying to shove technology into education where it isn’t needed can find another industry to ruin.
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disqardalmost 5 years ago
For those who fervently believe that &quot;Video Games Are The Future of Education&quot;, I would like to recommend two books: &quot;Geek Heresy&quot; by Kentaro Toyama, and &quot;The Flickering Mind&quot; by Todd Oppenheimer.<p>The former offers a voice of caution, and is written by the former head of MSR Asia.<p>The latter is filled with historical examples of &quot;x is the Future of Education&quot; (for x ∈ {&quot;radio&quot;, &quot;television&quot;, &quot;computers&quot;, ...}) each of which has failed to replace human instruction, showing that there&#x27;s something about human interaction that appears to be crucial for education.
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austinlalmost 5 years ago
When I was in elementary school, my math class spent a good amount of time playing Roller Coaster Tycoon in small groups. I can&#x27;t remember exactly how it worked, but I think we rotated who got to drive, while two or three other kids watched and gave advice.<p>While a lot of adults have fun pushing the boundaries of Roller Coaster Tycoon (e.g. designing roller coasters that smash into each other), we were very serious about it! The goal was to make a truly profitable park, and I remember having conversations about optimal ride and souvenir pricing, revenue per building, etc. (with our very limited vocabulary).<p><i></i>I think games need to be fun first and educational second to have any chance.<i></i> We didn&#x27;t realize we were learning while playing RCT, we were just excited by the challenge and the goal. The means to achieve the goal just happened to be loosely grounded in real world business practices.
fatso784almost 5 years ago
Implicit in this argument is an egocentric and individualistic viewpoint in universalizing how the author learned as &quot;the future&quot; a.k.a. the way everyone should learn. I don&#x27;t fault the author for having this, many people do. I wish the author reflected on the role of social factors in education. Learning in this post is something that&#x27;s thought of as individualized, which is something that educators and cultural psychologists have pushed back on for decades. It totally ignores the role of teachers.<p>Consider: &quot;AI will make humans vastly more effective by automating tedious tasks.&quot; Sure, but <i>which</i> humans? If games are indeed &quot;the future,&quot; let&#x27;s pay teachers even less than we do now, or fire them --that will be the response. That&#x27;s in fact what Graham says --&quot;I had examples to work from, but no teachers or classes.&quot; Let&#x27;s be real here: Graham&#x27;s father was a nuclear physicist, he likely grew up rich, and he attended Ivy League schools. Maybe he &quot;didn&#x27;t need teachers&quot; because, I don&#x27;t know, his home life was very supportive and he knew how to engage in the dominant, elite American culture? I like Graham here, but c&#x27;mon man.
msbalmost 5 years ago
&gt; 1. The things you learn by yourself stick; the things that are “taught” to you do not stick.<p>This is called Active Learning and there are decades of work that have gone into demonstrating it&#x27;s effectiveness. Also see: Constructivism. Although the majority of k-12 education still emphasizes passive learning, constructivist approaches to learning are being taught around the world and in the U.S. (Papert&#x27;s work is a good resource for those who are curious)<p>&gt; 3. Schooling mostly fails at giving you this deep understanding.<p>I think calling &#x27;schools&#x27; (so many, not sure what type this person attended) a failure is a bit harsh. The type of freedom in learning that the author is arguing for is HARD at scale. It requires smaller classes, more engagement from teachers, and an entire re-evaluation of how academic achievement is measured. We humans are still evolving...we&#x27;ll get there. A good start would be to pay teachers more. A better start would be to prepare parents to support active learning in the home.<p>&gt; 4. Video games will become a core component of education.<p>They already are: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;clalliance.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;clalliance.org&#x2F;</a><p>The general sentiment of this article is fair, but if you are going to make a statement about education you should reference educators rather than bloggers and biographers.<p>Edit: One more thought about the PG tweet...<p>&quot;you&#x27;ll surprisingly often have to teach yourself. I had to teach myself Lisp, how to write essays, and how to start a startup. I had examples to work from, but no teachers or classes.&quot;<p>First, I would argue that school provides us with the ability to teach ourselves. Paul taught himself Lisp, but did he learn how to program at all in school? Probably. He had to teach himself how to write essays, but surely school taught him how to write? Also, there are plenty of schools that offer writing classes...usually electives. Startups, well...that&#x27;s silly...that&#x27;s why we have MBA programs. Actually, I am not sure what PG&#x27;s point is with this tweet. Is it a critique of the educational system in the U.S. or a reflection on missed opportunities from his youth?
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firefoxdalmost 5 years ago
Video games style learning are great. But I don&#x27;t know if a classroom of children systematically playing video games on a time based limit to learn a subject will be the same experience.<p>Freedom and pace is what makes them a great medium. That&#x27;s the opposite of our education system.
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anonytraryalmost 5 years ago
Mentorship is the future of education -- it&#x27;s all about minimizing the teacher to student ratio. Video games are a creative way to present content, but also deprive students of other essential inputs for education. Saying that video games are the future of education is like saying in 1999 that MS Office is the future of education.<p>Maybe everyone will be consuming homework and lessons through video games, but no video game is going to completely replace real-life interaction. I&#x27;m not entirely sold on remote learning, especially for children (K-12). Getting taught remotely is like watching TV in black-and-white. It works, but it&#x27;s just not the same.
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ChicagoDavealmost 5 years ago
Love it. Especially the failed business plan I had from 8 years ago. The OP is correct, but good luck getting the education world to change. It&#x27;s monitored by &quot;moms&quot; that don&#x27;t like change, school districts that run on what is known, and a publishing industry without a single success in interactivity in the decades computers have been around. Any success has been small and anecdotal, even Khan Academy. In order to truly change our education system, we need to spend a hundred million dollars on R&amp;D with interactive storytelling to get the breadth of material correct, then another billion developing the depth. After words, students could freely &quot;roam&quot; through stories and learn at their own pace. Interactive software could monitor reading and comprehension levels and adapt, it can provide real-time feedback to teachers who can &quot;steer the ship&quot;.<p>I worked on this for several years, got close to the Bill &amp; Melinda Gates Foundation. The guy in charge of their education grants eventually stole all of our ideas and put them in their next grant application process that was directed at &quot;publishers with an existing customer base of at least 100,000 students&quot; which means established companies.<p>Pearson, Britannica, McGraw-Hill, and all of the other education publishers have one goal. Maintain the status-quo. Feed their existing content-developers who are solely focused on static page-oriented content. Why change? They have billion dollar contracts with states to deliver textbooks at exorbitant prices ($100+&#x2F;student&#x2F;class&#x2F;year).<p>I&#x27;m not bitter. Just disappointed. I definitely did not know what I was getting into and did not have the pedigree to chase down this business. But I did have a pretty good team and had Gates Foundation took a chance, we may have been able to prove the interactive model. That in itself would have been worth the investment.<p>It&#x27;s dated, but still relevant. Here is Textfyre&#x27;s business plan...<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;plover.net&#x2F;~dave&#x2F;textfyre&#x2F;Textfyre%20Investor%20Presentation%20September%202012%20V3.3.pptx" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;plover.net&#x2F;~dave&#x2F;textfyre&#x2F;Textfyre%20Investor%20Prese...</a>
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sitkackalmost 5 years ago
For all the shallow criticisms and outrage at the quality and mechanization of education, I share the same angst, but as KSP, Factorio and Zachtronics have shown that is there is place for educational games.<p>With that said, we need to when and how to apply it. I would conjecture that education can&#x27;t be the byproduct, it has to be the goal. And that educational and fun are difficult in the product of each. Given that I have only given three examples and others would be hard pressed to add more, that (STEM) educational games are less .1% of the games market. I would argue that many of nextgen indie games are educational in how they help the player handle feelings and life changing events.<p>The most effective educational games will probably have to be funded by the state and implemented by interdisciplinary teams of academics and game developers.
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honkycatalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;ve always thought that the civilization series are actually pretty educational: You spend hours and hours in this game, full of real world countries and leaders, and a huge wealth of information is stored in the &quot;civipedia&quot;. If you get curious about a leader you can research them and who they were.<p>You learn, at very high level, how society progressed from sticks and stones to the modern age, and what level of sophistication technology was based on the date. Different forms of government, many other things.
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adenverdalmost 5 years ago
Video games will become a much more powerful force at sparking kids&#x27; interest and creativity in a subject, which will lead to better educational outcomes. In my experience, video games are a fantastic way to learn the initial 50% of a new subject, and to appreciate and enjoy it. Some anecdotes from my life:<p>- I learned programming through an in-game (Star Wars Galaxies) scripting language. That little bit of experience automating repetitive tasks set me up to excel in high school and college programming courses, which led to a career in data engineering, and now AI and robotics.<p>- I was introduced to game theory by a prisoner&#x27;s dilemma situation in a video game (KOTOR).<p>- I learned economics and market forces by trading on Runescape&#x27;s Grand Bazaar, and how to model and optimize a production system by managing a little island kingdom.<p>Not only did I learn new subjects from these experiences, but learned that I could excel at and have fun giving them my attention, on my own time and for my own purposes, without the external pressures of grades and tests. This gave me the confidence and energy to pursue them more deeply in school.<p>One thing that&#x27;s interesting about all of these experiences is that they were all multiplayer and extremely social games (KOTOR, while a single-player RPG, was played with siblings and friends). I suspect that the social aspect was a primary motivating factor, and wonder if that principle holds for the broader population. I certainly wasn&#x27;t the only kid in my class trading on the bazaar to get some extra GP.
jfarmeralmost 5 years ago
I replied to the author, here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;jfarmer&#x2F;status&#x2F;1274828706893066240" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;jfarmer&#x2F;status&#x2F;1274828706893066240</a><p>I think the author falls into the trap of &quot;transmissionism&quot;. There&#x27;s a universe of facts out there and students learn them one after another by interacting with the environment (directly, via a teacher, via simulation, via textbook, whatever).<p>But take an example like learning how to cook a medium-rare steak. &quot;Cook the steak until it feels like the flesh on your cheek.&quot;<p>What does it mean to &quot;learn&quot; that lesson? Anyone can say it out loud, obviously, even someone who has never cooked a steak.<p>The lesson about becoming sensitive to what a medium rare steak feels like when touched. What &quot;simulation&quot; or &quot;video game&quot; can capture that without reaching Matrix-like levels of fidelity?<p>As Carl Sagan said: &quot;If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.&quot;<p>When you simulate, you&#x27;re creating _some_ universe first, but you have no way of knowing if it&#x27;s faithful to _our_ universe.<p>Better to start with the actual environment and help people improve the way they pay attention, react to the feedback they&#x27;re already receiving without realizing, build better tools to navigate unfamiliar terrain, etc.<p>Let our universe work for you rather than having to invent the universe before you even start.<p>People might object to the steak example or might try to carve out things that require &quot;physical&quot; knowledge, but I think people underestimate how much of programming is like learning to cook a steak.<p>What are you going to &quot;simulate&quot; in order to develop a coding student&#x27;s ability to detect &quot;code smells&quot;, for example? Developing that sense isn&#x27;t just about memorizing the 198723 things that count as a code smell. Most programmers can&#x27;t even explain _why_ something is a code smell in a simulatable way, which is why we describe via metaphor to a sense rather than an acquired skill.<p>But unlike our sense of smell it&#x27;s _obviously_ acquired. Nobody&#x27;s born with the ability to detect code smells.
mstudioalmost 5 years ago
I disagree with this sort of thinking. I do see that there is some value from video games, but there are also certainly drawbacks. There&#x27;s plenty of research confirming that handwriting helps people learn and process information. There&#x27;s nothing wrong with lectures and worksheets. One early childhood handwriting study is here (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedirect.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;article&#x2F;abs&#x2F;pii&#x2F;S2211949312000038" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedirect.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;article&#x2F;abs&#x2F;pii&#x2F;S22119...</a>).<p>Anecdotally, I see many drawbacks in using video games for learning. With my kids doing remote-learning, most of the math is taught&#x2F;practiced with math games -- most of these have advertisements. It&#x27;s so easy for kids to tab to another site&#x2F;app that&#x27;s more interesting. I can only imagine that if I had YouTube a click away from my studies as a 12-year-old, I&#x27;d get absolutely nothing done.<p>I also disagree that learning always needs to be &quot;fun&quot; and that we have to sugar-coat everything, including education, for kids. I don&#x27;t understand why we can&#x27;t teach kids to deal with difficulty -- to work on learning -- and then be proud of themselves when they&#x27;ve accomplished something.
phist_mcgeealmost 5 years ago
My PhD thesis was on this very topic! <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eprints.utas.edu.au&#x2F;31437&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eprints.utas.edu.au&#x2F;31437&#x2F;</a><p>I created a reading comprehension game&#x2F;platform for 10-12 year olds. It was not easy designing the game to be fun and educational, but found stat significance for student&#x27;s reading comprehension scores playing my games compared to the control. It&#x27;s possible!
sneeuwpopsneeuwalmost 5 years ago
While yes the game industrie will change some very small parts of education, my beleef is that it will not change anything big. Most of the time the games are already there but it is just not used because of many different problems.<p>I think that there are some small field that will be changed to games. For example I think there will be more good typing games like Epistory typing chronicles used in education. And some simple games for counting and learning a language. But this does not mean it changes the future of education.<p>I&#x27;m a Game Developer my self, for 4 years now, and most of the applied games and VR companies out there are just a hype to me. But I firmly beleef that platforms like EDX and Khan Academy and others will become bigger and bigger. Some schools may introduce a few classes or years with this model and they may flip the classroom. So in other words watch video&#x27;s at home do your homework at school. And yes the simplest of simplest excesses on these platforms may become little games. But i&#x27;m interested to hear from all of you how you think games may be used or are currently used in education after the hype.
ironman1478almost 5 years ago
The article doesn&#x27;t really say how video games will be used. Will it be homework? In school? Lab time? I could see video games being an ok medium for showing examples of things, but I do find the arguments a bit strange. For example it brings up the Rutherford model. I imagine it&#x27;s outdated or incomplete, but people go get physics degrees where people learn to genuinely understand that topic. It might be disappointing that school can&#x27;t satisfy a person&#x27;s love for a specific topic, but schools are supposed to be holistic and introduce you to many ideas. Also, this seems very science focused. I don&#x27;t see how games would help with literature classes or a writing class, where the primary task is to understand a topic and construct logical arguments to defend a point (I know not everybody&#x27;s classes were like this). Even in math, I don&#x27;t really know how much this would help. The main way at getting better at doing proofs is grinding through proofs (which imo is fun and doesn&#x27;t need a game component).
alexbanksalmost 5 years ago
This has been said for the past two decades. I have yet to see anything beyond ideas&#x2F;hype.
thathndudealmost 5 years ago
There’s an app (not sure if iOS only) called Homer, that aims to teach reading. It’s more education than game. But one of my kids LOVES it. She taught herself how to read (with the app’s teaching) at 4. My other kid (6) has no interest in reading and finds the app boring compared to true games.<p>Point being, it’s a tough nut to crack, but I’ve seen the potential!
tgvalmost 5 years ago
Q1: Who&#x27;s going to pay for it? Any idea how much of an effort it is to create a video game that teaches, let&#x27;s say, statistics? Or geology? Or history? It&#x27;s a bit more than writing a text book or creating a series of video lectures.<p>Q2: Who&#x27;s going to check the assignments? That&#x27;ll be people, because there&#x27;s no system in the world that can correctly do anything else but check multiple choice tests and&#x2F;or provide sensible feedback. We&#x27;ve been trying that for 40 years now, and the results are not hopeful. But if you&#x27;ve got people checking the answers and giving you feedback, you&#x27;re not reducing the costs by much.<p>And about that KSP remark: while physics is one of the few areas for which you can build decent simulations, that game won&#x27;t teach you the basics of combustion, control systems or material science. It just lets you play around. That&#x27;s fine, but it&#x27;s no replacement for a PhD.
lordnachoalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;m hoping Minecraft is the thing my older kid needs to learn all the important stuff, like how to code, engineering, and math.<p>It&#x27;s been a lot of fun watching videos of automatic wood&#x2F;food&#x2F;etc farms. These people are really learning how to think and design solution based on the world they&#x27;re in. Some of these inventions are simply ingenious.<p>Plus, you can do actual code as well, I&#x27;m guessing after he&#x27;s tired of grinding he&#x27;ll decide he needs to learn how to get things done a bit more systematically.<p>There&#x27;s also the economic aspect of it, thinking about how different resources are connected, how trading happens, etc.<p>Whether it works it hard to say though. Video games are a double edged sword, you can sit for years without learning how to code. You need some way of creating intellectual progress. Plus you need to actually put time into school to pick up credentials, and that competes with whatever else you spend time on.
lemoncookiechipalmost 5 years ago
I think something that is being lost here, is the fact that video games are a broad term and educational video games are nothing new, in-fact, they&#x27;ve been around at least since the 80s.<p>To me, this isn&#x27;t about producing educational video games, as much as adding video game elements to existing products and making something new and compelling to the consumers.<p>An example of this would be Duolingo (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.duolingo.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.duolingo.com&#x2F;</a>), it&#x27;s not a game, but it acts like one by introducing mechanics from games into it&#x27;s identity such as the concept of leveling up, completing levels, earning points... They also do this on a visual level that feels mostly gratifying for it&#x27;s users.<p>Of course educational games also have a place, but they&#x27;re mostly disdained by children
enordalmost 5 years ago
This line again... Education only works insofar as it acculturates children to greater society (or novices to the society of some specific domain). The methods of education are social, present in the surrounding culture and mediated by teachers through social interactions. Consequently, for video games to be &quot;the future of education&quot;, video games have to be the future of society as such. Video games are _in_ society, much like music, television and harry potter, but neither are &quot;the future of education&quot;. Not even the printing press could upend the basic structure and process of education, only add literacy to the curriculum. Forgive me, but I just don&#x27;t see &quot;playing video games&quot; make that list in any meaningful way.
rementalmost 5 years ago
I am reminded of an early Veritasium video &quot;This Will Revolutionize Education&quot; [0]<p>0: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=GEmuEWjHr5c" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=GEmuEWjHr5c</a>
HenryKissingeralmost 5 years ago
Coming in 2021: <i>Call of Duty: Differential Calculus</i>
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photonemitteralmost 5 years ago
After thinking about this for a while, there’s a pattern to games that might be useful to think about: Games generally follow a pattern of: - presenting a pattern to look for. - presenting tools to solve that sort of pattern. Then task you with implementing and reiterating that sort of solution.<p>This is close to how we teach STEM, but games tend to start breaking their own patterns (or the contextual clues for the patterns) in a smoother way. (E.g. portal where you’re gradually asked to think more and more (laterally) “with portals”)<p>So if we take a dichotomal view on education vs learning, we can say that games will encourage you to learn more effectively (in the context of the game, typically)<p>I suspect this can be helped with the concept of gameplay loops&#x2F;cycles.<p>What games are good at is aiding the reinforcement cycle at the core of learning a skill.<p>(This cycle is also in any technical skill.)<p>Games are fun as long as they avoid this repetition and reiteration cycle feeling like a grind. Which is where Educational(tm) material quickly becomes stuck.<p>Grind is, in a sense, a qualifier of your experience. How the repetition feels to you. If you’re “grinding” with a purpose, and it’s paced so your progress feels steady towards a self-elected goal, then it does not feel like grinding.<p>If it’s dry-repetitions, then you feel the grind. And that’s the trap of educational (I think)<p>(The ideas here are still mostly half-cooked, but hopefully it can add to the discussion)
diegoperinialmost 5 years ago
I think video games are more inspirational then they are educational. Of course, their power can be channeled to make them more useful but success stories are rare, if there are any.<p>I know the head of the largest gaming magazine in Turkey, who quit his job years ago to consult Turkish game companies as well as the government to build such games. The government basically funded everything but the result is still below what they wished for.<p>Reforming education is hard. So is building video games. Now they had two problems. Reminds me regex. :)<p>The games that taught me real lessons were always those hardcore, for fun ones.<p>Back in the day (2005), we didn&#x27;t have Turkish translations for DnD rulebooks. I pirated PDF scans and read all of them (very slowly) to be able to play as a DM for my friends. That is still the most challenging reading comprehension practice I&#x27;ve ever done for the English language.<p>I played the entire Monkey Island series with a dictionary open. Finished Starcraft BW multiple times just to be able grasp the story. Played Medieval Total War with many factions just to see what had been the differences among them during those times. Started researching the cold war after playing MGS3 since it was otherwise a really opaque thing to look at as a kid from Turkey. I owe my almost reflex-like analytical skills to those games where number crunching is the deciding factor for success, such as WoW with its auction house, Dota with its item combinations, Cities Skyline with balancing resources, and all those other tycoon games that I don&#x27;t even remember.<p>Finally and most importantly, I&#x27;m a computer engineer today because Starcraft BW, Heroes 3 M&amp;M and Warcraft 3 had world editors that can produce maps even for &quot;multiplayer&quot;. Thank you Blizzard and 3DO, I owe you people big time &lt;3.
rgovostesalmost 5 years ago
Some time ago there was a foreign language education project in which localization files for Grim Fandango and The Sims were gradually mixed between English and the target language. That still strikes me as a great idea, avoiding the frustration of plunging completely into the other language (as anyone who has changed their phone&#x27;s language for all of 30 seconds can attest).
cosmodiskalmost 5 years ago
No,they are not the future. The fact that we now need &#x27;interactive&#x27; lessons with tablets,apps,smart boards and all other gimmicks,while at the same time motivation keeps declining, attention span is at all time low and etc. On top of it,the curriculum of most educational programmes getting more and more watered down. Video games aren&#x27;t the solution.
arendtioalmost 5 years ago
My biggest problem with games is, that they are wasted time. I would love to see more _good_ educational games, where you have the feeling that you spend your time on something meaningful and still have fun.<p>So far my favorites are the Dragonbox games [1].<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dragonbox.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dragonbox.com&#x2F;</a>
staredalmost 5 years ago
A collaborative games of science-based games: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;stared&#x2F;science-based-games-list" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;stared&#x2F;science-based-games-list</a><p>And a question for you: while I do share that games are the way to learn things (our instinct for playing, shared with other animals, is precisely so we can learn), do you know any good investors in that sector? My experience is that three words to turn-off an investor is &quot;a game&quot;, &quot;educational&quot; and &quot;for the public good&quot;. :)<p>The question is very practical: I develop Quantum Game with Photons (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;quantumgame.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;quantumgame.io&#x2F;</a>) and looking for investors to make it a fully viable game and educational platform.
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Cpollalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;d like to see simulation-based games as a supplement to traditional learning or apprenticeship.<p>There are a lot of XYZ Mechanic Simulator games which I think have potential to be effective learning tools. They won&#x27;t teach you muscle memory, but a good one can distill a lot of experience into a shorter timeframe than normal. A mechanic simulator can teach you engine diagnosis and repair quickly because you can fast-forward the slow, mundane parts. You can also pace the &#x27;lessons&#x27; for better retention, building incrementally on concepts.<p>We&#x27;ve already seen this be successful in aviation and racing.<p>On that vein, I&#x27;ve been wishing for a Zachtronics-style game that teaches electronics, starting with LEDs and resistors and moving on to more complex circuits.
ducaalealmost 5 years ago
&gt; It is currently too hard to make video games. Making it easier to create video games will massively increase the supply of good video games and cause a gradual revolution in education.<p>I don&#x27;t think it is that hard to make a video game considering the many tools that exist to simplify video game creation. What is hard is making a video game that is also fun to play.<p>Some of the tools which let you write a video game without coding experience.<p>1. Scratch - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scratch.mit.edu&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scratch.mit.edu&#x2F;</a><p>2. GameMaker - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.yoyogames.com&#x2F;gamemaker" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.yoyogames.com&#x2F;gamemaker</a><p>3. Dreams - <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;dreams.mediamolecule.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;dreams.mediamolecule.com&#x2F;</a>
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lern_too_spelalmost 5 years ago
It ended in a non-sequitur. Today, GPT-3 can be used to do smart autocomplete of a paragraph, but in the future, a model might autocomplete an entire book. Where is the symbiosis there? Gaming to aquire knowledge has nothing at all to do with AI replacing humans at various tasks.
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jccalhounalmost 5 years ago
Videogames have been said to be the future of education nearly as long as there have been videogames.
Animatsalmost 5 years ago
If that were true, we&#x27;d have at least a few really great educational games by now. Any examples?
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platzalmost 5 years ago
The language in this article about knowledge you &quot;feel in your body&quot; is only briefly mentioned is the concept of &quot;tacit&quot; knowledge, further developed here:<p>Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23465862" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23465862</a><p>The article rightly prizes tacit knowlege, but does not lay any argument for why games would give us tacit knowledge.<p>Tacit knowledge is primarily gained only by experience, and I don&#x27;t see how games give us that in ways that the majority of folks would can say they had unambiguously helped us in the kinds of real world tasks we care about.
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ccvannormanalmost 5 years ago
I built www.supermathworld.com and it was incredibly difficult to sell. It was too wild for institutions to back it, and word-of-mouth didn&#x27;t spread from individual users (as other commenters here have noted for other products)
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seastonATccsalmost 5 years ago
So I&#x27;ve got 4 four kids and was the tech director for a school district that was 1:1. We started iPads about 10 years ago but have now transitioned to Chromebooks. In my observations educational games work well with under 12. After about 12 years old social pressure and lack of complexity keep them from enjoying games that are &quot;educational&quot;. Over 12 apps suck as Minecraft, Tynker, Scratch become more inline with an older kids interest. But if you DO make educational apps please keep it up. For example Stack the States &#x2F; Stack the Countries has been a favorite in with all my kids.
coupdejarnacalmost 5 years ago
The only educational game I enjoyed playing in school in the late 80s&#x2F;early 90s was Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego. I remember kids loved Oregon Trail, but I don&#x27;t think it had a lot of educational value.
k__almost 5 years ago
My game design lecturer was a CEO of a serious games company. Now, they are making regular games.<p>Some games are used to train soldiers, as far as I know.<p>I also read, that companies should hire MMORPG clan leaders, because they usually know how to lead ppl.
100-xyzalmost 5 years ago
Our platform lets users make animations in minutes. With no effort from our side, the platform has been mentioned in a few educational blogs and there has been decent interest from language learners. Its not in the same vein as the article, but it does make learning easier. Here is an example animation created by a user <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;toonclip.com&#x2F;player?key1=d8cb0a4b6b" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;toonclip.com&#x2F;player?key1=d8cb0a4b6b</a><p>Creating while using stuff you are learning seems to have a strong &quot;ownership&quot; feel.
aaron695almost 5 years ago
&gt; 1 Books I chose to read myself<p>&gt; #1-3 happened despite formal schooling<p>How did they learn to read? Plus I&#x27;ve never met a school that didn&#x27;t encourage kids to read.<p>&gt; Making it easier to create video games<p>Yes, video games are getting harder. And will continue to. GTA 5 cost half a billion and it&#x27;s easy to see how it could be better. Until we have amazing AI it won&#x27;t change and then nothing in this blog counts.<p>&gt; Another insight is that making things easier has nonlinear effects.<p>This is where the blog gets it totally right and what Education really needs. Just nothing to do with computer games.
platzalmost 5 years ago
Sometimes games teach us thing implicitly in the subtext [1], but implicit learning is probably not a good model for primary education, much in the same way that music might teach us things in it&#x27;s subtext, but is not a good model for primary education of specific concepts.<p>[1] Naomi Clark: Why Tom Nook symbolizes village debt in 18th century Japan <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BgEnbXPZX4s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BgEnbXPZX4s</a>
azinman2almost 5 years ago
It’s a very common anti-pattern to think whatever worked for you will universally work for others. Some need more hands on, some need less. Few kids are entirely self-motivated.
jkhdigitalalmost 5 years ago
&gt; The fundamental principle of education is to give students an environment, and tools, where they can make discoveries themselves.<p>This is pretty much exactly what happens in Sudbury schools: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sudbury_school" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sudbury_school</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sudburyvalley.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sudburyvalley.org&#x2F;</a>
sushshshshalmost 5 years ago
X doubt.<p>Whoever are putting out the most cutting edge info on technology and innovation (think WhatsApp company blog, InfoQ, the latest and greatest academic books on the things you study), that&#x27;s where the first mover advantage is for getting a leg up on everybody else in learning the skills you need to be in high demand.<p>If you wait for someone else to digest that info and then gamify it for you, you&#x27;re already too late.
bnjalmost 5 years ago
Video games are great, but the future of education is personal relationships and caring.<p>There’s this (seems like mostly unchallenged) assumption that more technology improves education.<p>What if more (or any) technology is actually counter-productive for most learning?<p>I’m thinking mostly here about k-12 students, and I’m not talking about actually learning technology (which would definitely demand access) —- but everything else?
lorthemaralmost 5 years ago
In my opinion, this isn&#x27;t strictly true for educational games. There are many genres out there while some of them are just about reflexes but some games require strategizing, teamwork, and adapting quickly to changes. I wasn&#x27;t taught these skills which are extremely critical for being successful at my job. I gained all of these by playing games.
moonchildalmost 5 years ago
This idea certainly isn&#x27;t new. As far as I can trace it, it dates to the late 90s, with Chris Crawford&#x27;s Dragon Speech[1]. (Well worth a watch, though this shouldn&#x27;t be considered an endorsement.)<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=kaBte1cBi5U" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=kaBte1cBi5U</a>
hallgrimalmost 5 years ago
What I find interesting is that rarely do people say: we have to solve this game design problem. Often they say: it doesn’t sell. And that’s because making educational games requires more than taking classroom lessons and squeezing them into totally unconnected game designs. They require bespoke game designs for each and every topic!
estalmost 5 years ago
Sadly there is not open-world equivalent of education-by-gaming. I feel every learning path is preset with fixed dialogues. I can not explore the topic I like, it&#x27;s too easy to hit the boundaries of human knowledge.<p>I feel game design technics can be applied to know-how and know-what learning, but for know-why learning, we need more advanced AI.
AlchemistCampalmost 5 years ago
I agree. Has anyone else here played through Grid Critters?<p>It was a surprisingly engageming and effective way to learn CSS Grid and I&#x27;m almost certainly going to buy the author&#x27;s next course on <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mastery.games&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mastery.games&#x2F;</a>
analog31almost 5 years ago
When I was in college (1982-1986), my summer job was at a computer facility that served the K-12 schools for a large county in the Midwest. They had a big room that was equipped with each kind of personal computer, so teachers could come and try them out, and demo copies of every software title that they could lay their hands on, including &quot;educational&quot; software. The world had not yet settled on IBM and Apple, and the Mac was still in the future.<p>Virtually all of the educational software was lame, amounting to Glorified Flash Cards with animated characters and other decorations. Most if not all have been forgotten.<p>Fast forward to the past decade or so, my kids both grew up in the Internet era. Educational software is now Web based of course. But it&#x27;s still not very far removed from Glorified Flash Cards. The main new feature is surveillance, ranging from making sure that you covered the entire exercise, catching cheaters, and tracking your online behavior. Note what one of the other posts says about stuff being sold that school districts are likely to buy.<p>Okay, there were two &quot;educational&quot; software titles in the early 80s, worthy of note: Word processing and BASIC &#x2F; Pascal. As I understand it, both BASIC and Pascal were created as teaching tools, but both are completely open ended and imply no specific curriculum. They also allow students to learn at their own pace if they want to, and resemble tools that people actually use in the &quot;real world.&quot; They also fully expose you to the consequences of your mistakes.<p>What &quot;educational&quot; titles do we have today? My high school education predated the word processor. I believe that my kids learned to be good writers and thinkers because of the ability to do a lot of writing and have it read and critiqued easily. And I&#x27;ve never stopped learning from having a programming tool at my disposal, though it&#x27;s Python instead of BASIC today. Once again, those tools contain no built-in agenda and provide total exposure to making and learning from mistakes.<p>My favorite educational game is Jupyter. It&#x27;s not just for math and computation. It can be used for science too. Science has a peculiarity, that in order to really learn it, you have to experience how nature can prove you wrong. Building computerized experiments and measurements is one way to be exposed to this.<p>I believe that education is hard because it involves the brain, and we haven&#x27;t figured out the brain. We&#x27;ll be able to automate teaching when we can automate thinking. Meanwhile I think we can use software and automation to eliminate <i>wasteful</i> thinking, such as physical library searching and doing some kinds of mathematical manipulations by hand.
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kunalpowar1203almost 5 years ago
Is it just me, or the background in the link is killing my eyes. Request the OP to change it. On other note, I Completely agree with this. I would recommend online games to many students and even professionals to learn critical skills (Insert Leadership and planning).
tmalyalmost 5 years ago
I just watched the movie October Sky for the first time last night. It really resonated with me as I use to make my own rocket engines. I think kids figuring out things on their own is the real way to go. It’s going to have to come from the individual for it to matter.
ccktlmazeltovalmost 5 years ago
Fuck yeah, I feel like I&#x27;m a better driver thanks to video game, and got a shit ton of culture from the pink panther game as well[1].<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=JZkX544i8RA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=JZkX544i8RA</a>
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leroy_masochistalmost 5 years ago
If video games can teach K-12 knowledge more effectively than a teacher in a classroom, the implications for the educational world are interesting. Will we still need elementary and high schools as physical installations? If so, what will they teach?
irrationalalmost 5 years ago
I received a Masters degree in Educational Psychology and Technology in the late 90s. People were saying this exact same thing back then, but it has never come to fruition. I’m not holding my breath that the future will be any different.
eastbaygamesalmost 5 years ago
Friend sent me here because I&#x27;m working on this as we speak! Made 5 prototypes for VR and PC language-learning games over about 2 years. Our current PC version for Chinese Mandarin will hit Steam as Early Access in about a month. Feedback from the community has been positive. People find it very unusual, interesting, and helpful. It&#x27;s on Itch.io as a free download until we start charging for it on Steam.<p>GAME PAGE <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eastbayimmersivegames.itch.io&#x2F;sheng-tian-episode-1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eastbayimmersivegames.itch.io&#x2F;sheng-tian-episode-1</a><p>COMMUNITY FEEDBACK <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;ChineseLanguage&#x2F;comments&#x2F;hb762z&#x2F;10_years_ago_i_promised_my_wife_id_learn_chinese&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;ChineseLanguage&#x2F;comments&#x2F;hb762z&#x2F;10_...</a>
maitredusoialmost 5 years ago
This one of the most profound text on education! Because it is very simple, understandable and still tell us about the way we need to move forward in the near future.<p>Thanks for sharing. Thanks HN for putting this in the front page ;)
throwawayghalmost 5 years ago
I think there&#x27;s been a fundamental conflation of <i>schooling</i> and <i>education</i> in the USA. Go back and read Paul Graham&#x27;s essay on education. It&#x27;s ultimately a critique of a very specific and particular social institution.<p>It is possible that software is the future of US K-12 education. I could see huge success for a piece of software inspired by DuoLingo&#x27;s gamification and Khan Academy&#x27;s bite-sized quick-&quot;I get it&quot;-gratification content design.<p>But if you understand the institution of US K-12 schooling -- test scores, funding formulas, etc. -- you quickly realize that this is a quite dystopic future. We will raise an entire generation whose only skill is consuming software that relentlessly optimizes for their test performance. Whole hoards of students who can ace a very particular test on Algebra but never really understand deductive reasoning or the concept of a variable&#x2F;function. As bad as US schooling is today, and as mediocre as the teaching profession in the US might be, humans-teaching-humans at least provides <i>some</i> check on the system and enables real learning.<p>So, stepping back, the tech elite&#x27;s attitude toward US education scares me. It&#x27;s going to do to our schools what that particular set of neo-liberal MBA programs did to so many iconic American businesses.<p>Conflating education and the US K-12 schooling institution causes many smart and driven people to:<p>1. under-estimate the effectiveness of good teaching, and<p>2. <i>fantastically</i> over-estimate the role of self-directed learning in their own lives[^a].<p>These two errors result in critics of US education over-estimating the effectiveness of (and under-estimating the dystopian potential of) depersonalized&#x2F;scalable solutions to education.<p>--<p>[^a]: I want to say a bit more about #2. My opinion on this topic changed when I read through a bunch of my old code from middle&#x2F;high school. I noticed that my programming ability took three significant step-changes during that time. The first happened during the time when I was taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade, when I went from mostly simple CRUD programs to really understanding how dynamic programming worked. I went from building PHP&#x2F;SQL websites to being able to use data structures other than lists&#x2F;hash tables and design algorithms for things other than CRUD operations. The second happened during the time I was taking Geometry; that&#x27;s when I started really understanding how to decompose problems and compose solutions. The final step-change happened during my first programming internship during Junior year. So, I was entirely &quot;self-taught&quot;, but clearly <i>something</i> in my formal education was driving my programming ability in ways I didn&#x27;t realize without explicit and rather time-consuming reflection. And that final step-change was basically intense 1:1 tutoring from a mentor.
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shultaysalmost 5 years ago
This sounds like something that cab be also told a decade or two ago but it is yet to be true. I dont see it is being changed anytime soo
dgeiser13almost 5 years ago
I agree with some of what you are saying but if you have to realize that your best way of learning does not necessarily apply to everyone.
AtlasBarfedalmost 5 years ago
Rpg games should be great for foreign language, especially if zork style and voice recognition.<p>I always wanted to play through a final fantasy in French.
fenwick67almost 5 years ago
Educational video games have been around for like 40 years now, I don&#x27;t see what would have changed to suddenly make them better.
ilrwbwrkhvalmost 5 years ago
Just to add, VR adds a whole next level to this. Even as an adult, learning about the ISS in VR was a life changing experience.
Banderlyalmost 5 years ago
You left out your best example; at GC you received hundreds of hours of schooling at pool with no discernible improvement.
mudlusalmost 5 years ago
Even if it was, it&#x27;s not the future of learning.<p>But, yeah, I could see China using video games in re-education camps, sure.
petepetealmost 5 years ago
Not the best chess example when the white queen is toast in the next move.
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barrenkoalmost 5 years ago
Future of education is already here, but not many want to recognize it.
TheAceOfHeartsalmost 5 years ago
Video games can teach you a lot of valuable skills that apply to the real world. I play Heroes of the Storm at a fairly high level and I&#x27;ve experienced many improvements in cognition as a direct result. It&#x27;s important to note that this is a team-based game in which &quot;carrying&quot; isn&#x27;t often possible, so you&#x27;re forced to rely on your team in order to win.<p>Some examples of how it has helped me improve:<p>* Situational awareness and object tracking. Looking at the minimap frequently so I know the last location of each enemy and predicting where they will be moving based on the current state of the match. As a result, I&#x27;ve gotten much better at driving and I feel considerably safer since I can keep track of everything in my surroundings. The car&#x27;s mirrors are basically your minimap while driving. This same algorithm applies to other real-life situations as well.<p>* Communication. I&#x27;ve learned how to communicate more effectively to push the team towards victory. It might feel satisfying to insult someone for playing poorly, but that&#x27;s rarely a winning strategy. Bad players are usually ignorant and they lack a deep understanding of how to play the game. If you provide constructive criticism in a non-hostile or aggressive manner your allies will most often try to integrate that information. Of course, there&#x27;s all sorts of people, and if someone is unwilling to listen then you just have to play around them as best as possible. Sometimes this means you have to take bad engagement and try to turn things around. This is just learning how to better interact with people.<p>* Self-awareness and self-responsibility. It&#x27;s tempting to blame your allies when you make a mistake or a bad call. Sometimes it&#x27;s definitely their fault, but recognize that you&#x27;re not perfect and you also make mistakes. Own your failures, don&#x27;t let your ego get in the way of your growth. Your allies will take your calls more seriously if they see that you&#x27;re open and honest. Learn to take criticism. Sometimes it&#x27;s justified and other times it&#x27;s not, try to integrate the lessons when it&#x27;s reasonable.<p>Ever since I started weight training daily I&#x27;ve also experienced improvements in my reaction time, which has had a direct and positive impact on my gaming skills. When I&#x27;m hyper-focused on a game, it feels like it&#x27;s moving in slow-motion and I have way more time to think through each decision.<p>When I started playing this game I could barely keep track of fights with all of the enemies and spells flying around everywhere. My cursor would frequently get lost in the turmoil and I would just try to spam my abilities into the blob of lights and animations. Now I can largely keep track of each hero, their abilities, and the timings of everything.
homakovalmost 5 years ago
Something in Outer Wilds style of exploring, would be epic
qntmfredalmost 5 years ago
Looking forward to what Audrey Watters has to say about this
hejjaalmost 5 years ago
love the article, upvoted and saved. but the background was absolutely killing my eyes.
hypertextheroalmost 5 years ago
Carl Sagan, in his book The Dragons of Eden (p.p. 153–154 — ___emphasis mine___):<p>&gt; Computer graphics are now being extended into the area of play. There is a popular game, sometimes called Pong, which simulates on a television screen a perfectly elastic ball bouncing between two surfaces. Each player is given a dial that permits him to intercept the ball with a movable “racket.” Points are scored if the motion of the ball is not intercepted by the racket. The game is very interesting. There is a clear learning experience involved which depends exclusively on Newton’s second law for linear motion. As a result of Pong, the player can gain a deep intuitive understanding of the simplest Newtonian physics — a better understanding even than that provided by billiards, where the collisions are far from perfectly elastic and where the spinning of the pool balls interposes more complicated physics. This sort of information gathering is precisely what we call play. ___And the important function of play is thus revealed: it permits us to gain, without any particular future application in mind, a holistic understanding of the world, which is both a complement of and a preparation for later analytical activities.___ But computers permit play in environments otherwise totally inaccessible to the average student.<p>&gt; A still more interesting example is provided by the game Space War, whose development and delights have been chronicled by Stuart Brand. In Space War, each side controls one or more “space vehicles” which can fire missiles at the other. The motions of both the spacecraft and the missiles are governed by certain rules — for example, an inverse square gravitational field set up by a nearby “planet.” To destroy the spaceship of your opponent you must develop an understanding of Newtonian gravitation that is simultaneously intuitive and concrete. Those of us who do not frequently engage in interplanetary space flight do not readily evolve a right-hemisphere comprehension of Newtonian gravitation. Space War can fill that gap.<p>&gt; The two games, Pong and Space War, suggest a gradual elaboration of computer graphics so that we gain an experiential and intuitive understanding of the laws of physics. The laws of physics are almost always stated in analytical and algebraic — that is to say, left-hemisphere — terms; for example, Newton’s second law is written F = m a, and the inverse square law of gravitation as F = G M m&#x2F;r2. These analytical representations are extremely useful, and it is certainly interesting that the universe is made in such a way that the motion of objects can be described by such relatively simple laws. But these laws are nothing more than abstractions from experience. Fundamentally they are mnemonic devices. They permit us to remember in a simple way a great range of cases that would individually be much more difficult to remember — at least in the sense of memory as understood by the left hemisphere. Computer graphics gives the prospective physical or biological scientist a wide range of experience with the cases his laws of nature summarize; but its most important function may be to permit those who are not scientists to grasp in an intuitive but nevertheless deep manner what the laws of nature are about.<p>&gt; There are many non-graphical interactive computer programs which are extremely powerful teaching tools. The programs can be devised by first-rate teachers, and the student has, in a curious sense, a much more personal, one-to-one relationship with the teacher than in the usual classroom setting; he may also be as slow as he wishes without fear of embarrassment. Dartmouth College employs computer learning techniques in a very broad array of courses. For example, a student can gain a deep insight into the statistics of Mendelian genetics in an hour with the computer rather than spend a year crossing fruit flies in the laboratory. Another student can examine the statistical likelihood of becoming pregnant were she to use various birth control methods. (This program has built into it a one-in-ten-billion chance of a woman’s becoming pregnant when strictly celibate, to allow for contingencies beyond present medical knowledge.)
CMayalmost 5 years ago
Games have already had enormous educational impact and that satisfying to use tools can help pull us towards a better understand of a thing is well known.<p>The list of games with widespread educational impact of some sort is already much larger than most people think. As is usually the observation when edutainment of any sort is written about, the point is really that there are many important fields of education excluded from this revolution. Part of that is probably that the cross section of people that are interested in making a game and those who understand the topic well enough to start with is often not large. Persisting cultural relevance for your creation is very rare, which can be crushing. That a game like Snake Pass exists exposing more people to the uniqueness of snake movement is a near miracle.<p>Games aren&#x27;t currently categorized by what a player can learn from them, just as movies rarely are. Sometimes even putting into words what you came away with after an experience is difficult, but you know your perspective on yourself or the world changed in some way. Check any of the movie or game storefronts and see if they have any comprehensive sections to let you filter by what people thought they learned from them. Valve is the most well positioned to implement something like this through Steam, because they rapidly iterate with experiments and have a strong variety of games available with an engaged audience willing to do the tasks necessary.<p>At the moment, you have to guess what you might learn based on the genre or first impressions. Even still, the ratings for a product aren&#x27;t there to rate educational value and the time played doesn&#x27;t tell you how long you have to spend in the game to get that learning experience. You can have a 1-2 star game teach you something priceless, while a 5 star game is a nearly vapid lifeless husk of manipulation. Stores like Steam almost need a completely separate perspective view with its own ratings, own tags and own reviews to make these aspects of games more discoverable. There are people that would be more than thrilled to populate that information in good faith.<p>I think there are hidden riches waiting to be described when people are encouraged to explain to others what it was that they learned rather than what bugs they encountered or whether the production quality was bad and changes like that could over time apply meaningful pressure to add more important educational moments into their games for measurable marketing value.<p>Being father&#x27;s day, it wasn&#x27;t that long ago that my dad was reminiscing about old TV shows where every episode tried to deliver some moral education. How hard is it to find those old episodes categorized by what it tried to teach? Seinfeld was also saturated with educational value through a bevy of unique situations. South Park is probably more educational than Big Bang Theory, because oddly enough I see BBT as more of a facade.<p>In short, it&#x27;s not only the standard academic teachings that are underserved or have poor discoverability in all media and I do think continuing to neglect the explicit identification of this value as newer generations pass up old media of all types will have a cascading cost that will impact generations of families.<p>The side effect is that there will be some educational value that will be polarizing, like inauthentic diversity education that could become an avoid flag for many (for both good and bad reasons). That could be a good thing if it pressures political activism in media to be less overt in order to have more widespread subtle impact without preaching to people louder than the art itself is able to genuinely speak.<p>There are exciting times ahead and I&#x27;m optimistic of the many educational avenues that will be opening up as people wake up to how they learn over the course of their lifetime, be it calculus or empathy.
WalterBrightalmost 5 years ago
&quot;my understanding of heroism is to this day shaped by games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid.&quot;<p>I simply don&#x27;t believe this. My father said there is a hidden club in the military, and those not in the club don&#x27;t know it exists. You join that club when you get shot at. It irreversibly changes your perspective.<p>I don&#x27;t believe anyone can understand heroism without being in that club.<p>I&#x27;m not a member, though I have been threatened at gunpoint.