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Facebook announces policy changes ahead of 2020 elections

375 pointsby DarkContinentalmost 5 years ago

49 comments

systemvoltagealmost 5 years ago
Not sure if I have data to back this up but my theory around political turmoil and echo chambers is as follows:<p>- Before widespread internet use, say year 2000, all communities were local. News were local + nation wide, people still focused on their physical proximity of 20 miles that affected them the most. Today, none of my friends read local news. Local news outlets are being bankrupted left and right.<p>- Anonymity on the internet. People can say whatever they want without attaching their name, face and self-pride. This creates extremely unproductive conversations without consequences. Platforms such as Twitter propel this behavior to new heights. When it was local, you&#x27;d lose friends for being unpleasant, you&#x27;d lose credibility in your community for being inflammatory.<p>- Foreign interference - when internet use was not widespread, it was difficult to infiltrate a foreign election campaign and interfere with it.<p>- Data collection and manipulation - Targeted newsfeeds that feed these echo chambers could not possibly reach critical mass before the internet. Echo chambers were physical places to go to - Hells Angels or joining the Evangelical Christian church. No such limits exist now.<p>- Scale - The internet allows unprecedented scale to operate on. Echo chambers reverb into unimaginable self-resonance. Joe Rogan can say something and <i>millions</i> could hear it. +1M subscriber channels on YouTube span thousands. That was practically impossible unless you were on national TV.<p>The internet has lot of positives (free voice, commerce, sharing of ideas, services, etc.) and its drawbacks are now surfacing. I want to go back to 90&#x27;s when we had healthy debates between republicans and democrats. We were one country. One voice. And people debated about issues and not about other people&#x27;s clans.<p>We wanted internet to be the left&#x2F;middle of the Bosch&#x27;s The Garden of Earthly Delights [1] but ended up creating something thats not too far from the right side of the canvas. Total chaos and loss of decency and respect for each other.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hieronymus_Bosch#&#x2F;media&#x2F;File:The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights_by_Bosch_High_Resolution.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hieronymus_Bosch#&#x2F;media&#x2F;File:T...</a>
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bmmayer1almost 5 years ago
This is the one sentence that is going to come back to haunt Mark: &quot;To clarify one point: there is no newsworthiness exemption to content that incites violence or suppresses voting.&quot;<p>In the next 6 months, there will surely be a post or series of posts from one or many politicians where their choice of what is deemed &quot;inciting violence or suppressing voting&quot; will be, mildly put, controversial. These situations are not clear cut, and Facebook will be in the unenviable position of having to decide what is a political &quot;truth&quot; in a fraught political environment.
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A4ET8a8uTh0almost 5 years ago
Sigh, I guess I am one of those lonely voices that says let em say whatever they want. FB should be little less than a dumb platform for anyone to run their mouth.
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tmshalmost 5 years ago
My mom got conned into giving away her credit card info and allowing someone to install remote software on her PC the other week (btw I emailed Satya Nadella with my <i>thoughts</i> and he awesomely forwarded it to someone to look into more - my thoughts were briefly.. why do I have to travel home to fix this...).<p>My mom is in her 70s. People like that (a) vote (b) believe in whatever is on Facebook.<p>That&#x27;s the risk of under-moderated social networks. Under 40 crowd + anyone on HN tbh is not the risk.
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justinzollarsalmost 5 years ago
I can&#x27;t figure out why Facebook attracts so much negative attention. Facebook does a great job at removing violent content. The most hateful content I see on the Internet is on Twitter. The violence and hysteria are so much I&#x27;m thinking of deleting that platform.
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foxfiredalmost 5 years ago
You can say a lot of things about Zuckerberg, but boy does he have a difficult job.<p>The next time some one comes to me and say &quot;I have a cool new idea for a new social network&quot;...<p>Edit: I&#x27;ll tell them to use mysql, it&#x27;s a good choice for a database.
nknealkalmost 5 years ago
&quot;To clarify one point: there is no newsworthiness exemption to content that incites violence or suppresses voting. Even if a politician or government official says it, if we determine that content may lead to violence or deprive people of their right to vote, we will take that content down. Similarly, there are no exceptions for politicians in any of the policies I&#x27;m announcing here today.&quot;<p>To me, this is the most interesting development. It&#x27;ll be interesting to see where the line gets drawn in practice on what constitutes voter suppression and&#x2F;or speech that could lead to violence. The bigger question is whether we should be entrusting Facebook to draw that line in the first place.
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fareeshalmost 5 years ago
Here are some examples of statements &#x2F; content, I am curious as to whether they would be considered inciting violence:<p>- &quot;Let&#x27;s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they&#x27;re not welcome anymore, anywhere. We&#x27;ve got to get the children connected to their parents&quot;<p>- &quot;How do you resist the temptation to run up and wring her neck?&quot;<p>- (A parody or fictionalized depiction of a politician being murdered - decapitated or shot.)<p>- &quot;I could take him behind the gym. That&#x27;s what I wish&quot;<p>- &quot;Throw milkshakes at them. It&#x27;s only a milkshake&quot;<p>- Op-Ed by politician entitled &quot;Send in the Military&quot;<p>- &quot;Come and take it&quot; (pointing to their gun)<p>It seems as if it&#x27;s upto the platform to decide when they can be charitable in the interpretation and when they will err on the side of caution. Given the demographics of Facebook, I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if it goes the way I&#x27;d expect it to.
mark_l_watsonalmost 5 years ago
I think the root problem is that both political parties portray the other party as an existential threat to our country. Personally I think this is absurd: our country (USA) is strong enough to survive either the republicans or democrats in control of both houses or Congress and the White House. No, the country will not crash and burn depending on which party the elites and corporate news media happens to put in power.<p>When the Cold War ended, we (the US) lost our Worthy Rival (in the sense discussed in the book The Infinite Game). During the Cold War, both political parties agreed to get along because of an external rival. We now have several Worthy Rivals but fail to realize that, so as a country we have nothing to rally around except for an inaccurate belief in American Exceptualism.<p>I am hopeful that all of the problems (political, COVID 19, economy, and racism) that we face might unite the country.<p>As for Facebook acting in our public interest: I will believe it if it ever actually happens.
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chillacyalmost 5 years ago
Wow those Facebook comments on the post... nobody on any side is happy. Is moderation an un-winnable position?
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glitcheralmost 5 years ago
We all know what no content moderation spirals down into, and that content moderation is a very hard problem to address (&quot;solve&quot; is definitely the wrong word IMO). I am torn between the idea that a company should be able decide how they want to moderate their own platform, and the contradictory feeling that I don&#x27;t trust them.<p>Thinking about the idea of legislation to prevent platforms from all moderation doesn&#x27;t feel right to me personally, so to those that do hold that opinion I am curious:<p>1. If we can&#x27;t even regulate ISP&#x27;s as dumb pipe utilities, then how would it be possible to do it with social media platforms? Would it be contradictory to legislate platforms this way while _not_ also applying the same logic to ISP&#x27;s?<p>2. Emerging social media platforms that specifically don&#x27;t moderate, or decide to moderate _differently_, are in a unique position to benefit from the many users who don&#x27;t like the major platforms&#x27; moderation practices. If these competing platforms suddenly gain in popularity, would there still be a need for regulation if users have a real choice?
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lucasmullensalmost 5 years ago
Pretty strange that Facebook tries aggressively to get you to sign up to Facebook just for viewing this post. There&#x27;s a giant modal with a huge picture of Mark&#x27;s face telling you to &quot;See more of Mark Zuckerberg on Facebook&quot;.<p>You&#x27;d think they&#x27;d disable that for critical announcements like this.
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georgeecollinsalmost 5 years ago
Sheryl Sanberg: We don&#x27;t respond to boycotts! We are guided by our principles. Mark Zuckerberg: Today we announce we are changing our policies.<p>Funny how that works.
mattbillensteinalmost 5 years ago
The great power of the internet is that the best factual information is a just a few clicks away.<p>The problem with social media is that the worst information - the conspiracy theories, the shoddy advertising, the pyramid schemes - is literally zero clicks away; in fact, it&#x27;s put in front of people for fractions of a cent.
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unexaminedlifealmost 5 years ago
My basic takeaway from all of this is MOSTLY that society isn&#x27;t (on its own) capable of a real democracy. YET. I&#x27;m optimistic though. I do agree in general that we don&#x27;t want any single &quot;arbiter of truth&quot;, but given that too many citizens are being duped by objectively inaccurate news in far too large numbers, I think there&#x27;s probably a comfortable middle ground we&#x27;ll all be relatively comfortable with until humans no longer need this &quot;oversight&quot;.
ck2almost 5 years ago
I still can&#x27;t wrap my mind around the idea in 2020 we have a super powerful worldwide internet accessible to most with everyone able to make their own website yet millions upon millions insist on congregation on just one or two sites and giving them some kind of imaginary power over everyone.<p>Just zero out facebook in HOSTS and you are free, it really is that simple, everything else is just a contrived argument.
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SethTroalmost 5 years ago
This is very likely in response to the Stop Hate For Profit campaign[1], it has been picking up steam the last week with a bunch of major brands[2] (REI, Coca-Cola, Unilever) saying they&#x27;re going to pause FB&#x27;s cash cow, ads, for a month. So Zuckerberg was forced to respond.<p>Pressure (internal and external) on the tech giants can force them to change.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.stophateforprofit.org&#x2F;demand-change" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.stophateforprofit.org&#x2F;demand-change</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2020&#x2F;jun&#x2F;26&#x2F;facebook-policies-hate-speech-advertisers-unilever" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2020&#x2F;jun&#x2F;26&#x2F;facebook-...</a>
joshpadnickalmost 5 years ago
Many positive steps here, but still no change on allowing political ads that make knowingly false claims, or am I missing something?
akshayBalmost 5 years ago
Facebook is now playing damage control as sentiment of people have shifted or they must have probably noticed some drop in activity, KPI or usage due to their recent stance. There is probably more going on behind the curtains, huge organization generally don&#x27;t wake up one day and decide to change course.
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julianeonalmost 5 years ago
I see everybody commenting on the substance of the post: which is good. Seeing the post as a stand-alone, almost ahistorical, statement.<p>But I&#x27;m wondering the strategic part, the this-moment-in-politics, may be part of why we&#x27;re seeing this now, too.<p>For a while Trump seemed pretty indestructible. FaceBook could hover in between Trump and his opposition, stick to the middle ground.<p>Now it looks like Trump is down by some pretty serious digits, and Biden is up. This would be the right time to maneuver for a Biden Presidency, before it looks obviously self-serving.<p>By doing this now, if Trump loses, FaceBook will be closer to the post-Trump middle. It&#x27;s certainly better than being stranded with a bunch of terrible alt-right press and Congressional investigations, with Trump unable to offer any governmental protection.<p>While you never know - Trump could win! - the Trump-is-leaving-so-prepare-for-post-Trump-times scenario is looking more probable by the day.<p>For the average person, &quot;who knows&quot; and &quot;anything could happen&quot; may be good enough. It isn&#x27;t for megacorps. So when the betting odds change, they change with them.<p>Remember, Zuckerberg is a guy who bet big on Insta as the future beyond FaceBook, 6-10 years into the future. It only makes sense that he&#x27;d seriously think about 4 months into the future, to consider the impact on his business. And adjust accordingly.
truculentalmost 5 years ago
One of the many issues with the big platforms (like Facebook) is that the founders and owners are incapable of thinking that the service is no longer a net good and should be shut down. There is never a big enough problem that cannot be tweaked insignificance.
captn3m0almost 5 years ago
Because of its US roots, FB makes concessions etc about US elections, but for the remaining countries in the world - FB doesn&#x27;t care.<p>FB announced their last electoral reforms _after India finished its last elections, where FB was majorly used with little to no checks_.
adamseaalmost 5 years ago
The crazy part is that it’s an unnaccoubtable company making these decisions around managing speech - decisions with will have a significant and tangible impact on the 2020 presidential election.<p>Wouldn’t it be nice if there was some sort of mechanism for a community to collectively decide what the rules should be, and then make sure they are followed?<p>It might be a messy process but hopefully this would be a slowly self-correcting mechanism.<p>Then the broader community could ensure that the companies and other entities that are a part of it follow the rules which have been collectively and democratically agreed on.<p>I feel like there’s a word for this sort of thing, and it’s on the tip of my tongue ....<p>Hint: the word is (democratic) government.
ImaCakealmost 5 years ago
Lots of discussion about censorship here. I would like to ask a slightly off-topic question: Does China have the same kind of social discord that America has? Chinese online communities are subject to considerable censorship and moderation. Does that help prevent the spread of insane ideas and conspiracies?<p>Why is this worth thinking about: People who look to a more moderated future for our social networks might look to China to see if such moderation is effective. The downside is obvious; the state can promote insane conspiracy theories using the same moderation tools. But we could at least see if moderation on such a scale works at all.
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ChrisCinellialmost 5 years ago
I would argue that edge rank reinforce personal and group biases and let you see more of what you interacted with.<p>Believes (false or true) start with an event that leaves an imprint in you and later you start &quot;seeing&quot; only what goes along you believe and minimizing or ignoring what is against your believes.<p>So if edge rank would feed you more of what you interacted with your view would become more and more extreme.<p>If edge rank is aware of your context and your social graph, it will also feed you more and more what your social circle consumes and produces.<p>We can see what is going on in the whole world but we are still made by our local reality.
xenospnalmost 5 years ago
Twist: &quot;Someone&quot; starts a new, right-wing social network that is endorsed by Trump, pumped by Fox News and secretly funded by Mark. The My Pillow Guy and all his friends take their ad dollars there where they are greeted by all the people who are currently crying that Facebook and Twitter are being &quot;tyrannical&quot; for censoring their racist posts.<p>6 Months from now after the election is done, Facebook quietly absorbs it and life goes on.
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TedShilleralmost 5 years ago
So it was all about the money, after all? I thought it was about principles. Funny how fast things change as soon as money comes into the equation.
s1monalmost 5 years ago
I love how this post is about the US elections, but fails to mention anything until the fourth paragraph (&quot;...largest voting information campaign in American history...&quot;). Facebook is one of the largest worldwide platforms, yet this announcement just assumes that we all know that it&#x27;s about the USA (I say this as US citizen). It&#x27;s so provincial.
Mc_Big_Galmost 5 years ago
The true evil from facebook isn&#x27;t the posts that incite violence. It&#x27;s the posts that are flat-out fake, complete lies and&#x2F;or present something completely out of context. These are the tools that Trump, right-wingers and white supremacists use to fool their supporters and trigger their seratonin generators through fearmongering. What is Facebook doing about THIS problem? What are they doing to combat blatant untruths spread all over their network? Zuckerberg&#x27;s post does nothing to address this, the worst of problems. He&#x27;s hitting softballs.
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didipalmost 5 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand why FB don&#x27;t separate news from timeline into its own lane. They both can even be side by side in the UI.<p>This way, news algorithm can be treated differently than other non-political utilities. And there will be less people impacted by news (positively&#x2F;negatively).
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freeopinionalmost 5 years ago
If these policy changes are just going into effect, they are not ahead of 2020 elections.
ipiz0618almost 5 years ago
Curios how would they define &quot;hate speech&quot;. From the way Facebook works, wouldn&#x27;t anyone be worried it would be exploited the moment the new policies are out and become a spamming ground?
tibbydudezaalmost 5 years ago
People will become their inner assholes if there are no consequences to their behavior as in real life you get thrown out of the neighborhood pub if you act like a doofus.
classifiedalmost 5 years ago
Having to lick the boots of that overgrown child that has become President is getting embarrassing I guess. After all, Zuck wants to rule the world himself.
nikodunkalmost 5 years ago
Reading this on the new Facebook Dark Mode seems fitting.
lunarualmost 5 years ago
We need to start expanding the scope of our anti-trust laws so that internet communication channels go back to what they were meant to be: de-centralized.<p>The fact that the internet and web was designed to be decentralized and then somehow ended up being concentrated on 5 or 6 websites is a bug, not a feature.<p>I&#x27;m not proposing we just do this overnight though -- too much of the US economy and software sector is propped up by these companies to just yank it all out, but we need to head back to decentralization by revisiting our definition of monopolies as it applies to communication channels.
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29athrowawayalmost 5 years ago
The timing of this announcement could have to do with the ad boycott.
seesawtronalmost 5 years ago
Policy updates everywhere but no enforcement and accountability.
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shallowthoughtalmost 5 years ago
I love how this asshole is clearly just trying to modify policy in reaction to what he thinks people wants, rather than doing the right thing from day one, because he obviously has no idea whatsoever how to do the right thing.
AzzieElbabalmost 5 years ago
I would have gone amz way and formed a sugar water company and a logistics company by now just to remind Coca Cola and Uniliver who they really are.
j45almost 5 years ago
Is this too little, too late?
keymealmost 5 years ago
You can flag this comment away, but I&#x27;ll say this anyway:<p>If America doesn&#x27;t crack down on Google&#x27;s, Facebook&#x27;s and Twitter&#x27;s ability to &quot;moderate&quot; (censor) content at their discretion (today!), Western democratic society will come to an end. Sooner rather than later.<p>These services are utilities, sometimes monopolies, and must be regulated as such.
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paxysalmost 5 years ago
Why insist on sharing important policy updates as a Facebook post, which is clearly not meant for that purpose? That wall of text is completely unreadable.
sys_64738almost 5 years ago
Why ever would I believe a word an ad man says?
throwawayseaalmost 5 years ago
I am not happy with Facebook caving in to activist pressure from a small number of vocal nonprofits and businesses that carry their own political biases. This again is evidence that big tech favors certain worldviews, ideologies, and political opinions over others. The notion of &#x27;hate speech&#x27; is flawed. It is a vague term with ever-expanding definitions and will ultimately reduce the free exchange of ideas. Censorship, deplatforming, boycotts, and other such actions will ultimately just lead to the balkanization of our society.<p>As an example, consider the following paragraph from Zuck&#x27;s post:<p>&gt; Specifically, we&#x27;re expanding our ads policy to prohibit claims that people from a specific race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, caste, sexual orientation, gender identity or immigration status are a threat to the physical safety, health or survival of others.<p>So what happens when people disagree on a current and controversial topic like gender identity? This is certainly not a settled area of debate. For instance, there are many who think early transitioning and surgeries can backfire, and that children are not fit to make these decisions at a young age. Would such discussion now be censored? More generally, will views that challenge progressive orthodoxy just be banned on the grounds of ever-expanding and variable definitions of hate speech?<p>Another example:<p>&gt; We&#x27;re also expanding our policies to better protect immigrants, migrants, refugees and asylum seekers from ads suggesting these groups are inferior or expressing contempt, dismissal or disgust directed at them.<p>What happens when you want to discuss the downsides of immigration and how it affects your society? For instance, in Finland a disproportionate amount of sexual violence is perpetrated by immigrants (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sexual_violence_in_Finland#Perpetrators" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sexual_violence_in_Finland#Per...</a>). This is a very common discussion topic in Finnish society and media (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.foreigner.fi&#x2F;articulo&#x2F;moving-to-finland&#x2F;crime-is-the-topic-most-associated-with-immigration-by-finnish-media&#x2F;20191110185452003427.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.foreigner.fi&#x2F;articulo&#x2F;moving-to-finland&#x2F;crime-is...</a>). Would such discussion or advertisement in favor of changes to immigration policies now be disallowed?<p>----------<p>Even if Facebook only loosely enforces these new guidelines, having them at all can have a chilling effect. It seems we can&#x27;t trust Facebook to be a neutral owner of such a ubiquitous and powerful platform. So much of society&#x27;s communication happens on Facebook (and Twitter and Google) that they are really just the new digital public square and should not take sides. We need alternative platforms that value free speech, a foundational part of our society, rather than imposing the views of platform owners, their employees, or a small number of vocal activists on the rest of the world.
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lazyjonesalmost 5 years ago
Nice attempt to distract from the recent Project Veritas documentary showing how FB manipulates content and suppresses conservatives.
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nie100sownyalmost 5 years ago
1. Providing Authoritative Information on Voting During the Pandemic<p>We hear it all the time (especially in Europe):<p>- irresponsible people would not secure their retirement so the state needs to force them to do it,<p>- irresponsible people would not fasten the seatbelt so law must force them to do so,<p>- irresponsible people would not vaccinate their children etc.<p>But when elections are coming, all these irresponsible people will wisely choose the best president, after detailed investigation of the economical treaties. Pure absurd.<p>I like the idea of Fredrich Hayek - everyone votes only once in the whole life at age between 40 and 45 years. (Assuming the cadence is 5 years). Only interested ones.
vboalmost 5 years ago
This again comes off as empty PR speak. &quot;We&#x27;re taking this seriously, trust us&quot; with no acknowledgment of anything being broken to begin with. The more meaningful work at this point is not growing or preserving Facebook&#x27;s inertia - I know, heresy - but fixing an architecture that has become toxic.
bobobob420almost 5 years ago
A lot of comments that add to the discussion (unlike this one tehee) that are grey :(<p>Censorship of speech is not okay! No matter what!<p>Also I just want to add that imo Twitter is vastly more toxic than Facebook! I do not see it get as much hate as the zuck does tho...(not saying he does or not deserve the hate) just think there is better marketing of Jack Dorsey
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