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'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

82 pointsby ASVVVADalmost 5 years ago

11 comments

aboringusernamealmost 5 years ago
For me, this is one of <i>the</i> most interesting aspects to the development of Linux, and one I&#x27;ve been studying for <i>years</i> at various levels.<p>Even though I don&#x27;t understand a lick of most of the code, watching the lkml and the process itself is very quite interesting, however, there are a few ways to try and put the kernel in a better position in the future.<p>Each major release can be considered a &quot;story&quot;, for example, the journey of WireGuard from inception to submitting it to the kernel, that&#x27;s an <i>entire</i> process, involving many, many steps and employs an unlimited number of tools; meeting in person, email, VoIP, Slack and anything you can think of.<p>Conversations that turn into code are a vital part of kernel development, but I feel is less well known (after all, we just see code shuffling about git repos).<p>Each bit of code is possibly hours of work, represents many conversations, and yet, git cannot (and does not), preserve the history of how code reaches Linus&#x27; tree.<p>So, how can we improve this situation?<p>Document, document, document!!<p>I&#x27;d love to see someone like Greg Kroah-Hartman, David Miller, Stephen Rothwell et al document, extensively, how they do their work.<p>I&#x27;m talking about high resolution; screen captures, text, images, audio and anything else that we can preserve going forward, perhaps all neatly tucked away in a git repo and backed up many, many times.<p>Seriously, we&#x27;re at risking of losing a core vital understanding of <i>how</i> people do their work, especially those who are core to the Kernel. Of course, people may develop new methods, but I feel the kernel is quite mature and the processes in theory are quite stable too (such as how Greg actually releases a stable kernel once a week).<p>Of course, not everything can be documented, older software gets older, and someone&#x27;s favorite email client may not be transferable, but the general process can be.<p>So yes, this is something to think about and prepare for, otherwise it may hit the kernel quite hard.
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aSplash0fDerpalmost 5 years ago
A few points irk me on &quot;the beginning of the end&quot; conjecture in modern technology, rather than focusing on &quot;as one door closes, another one opens&quot; philosophies that keep it all going.<p>If I were to do coffee with Linus, I would tell him to fork the kernel and cleancode a kernel for the future (and take the reins), while letting the complexities of the current kernel continue to flourish in its present form (possibly seen as letting the rope go in the middle of a heated tug-of-war, which needs to happen on a public stage more often).<p>The &quot;in between the lines story&quot; on Linux over the years looks like [they] have been thrust into a role of placating the miserable, instead of writing brilliant code (its happening outside of tech too).<p>As far as switching gears to salaried maintainers, OSS should start an ISP (core function) similar to AOL (maybe aspergers online) and be a HUB for accessing the fruits of their labor. It would be like bringing the earthlink&#x2F;mindspring 110% support model back to life (a reputation for being stewards of all open tech, in addition to top notch support).<p>Just having an ad-free network as an option would be worth the price of admission.
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kyran_adeptalmost 5 years ago
I think Linus is at fault here. Having a PR process that requires sending a patch over email, email threads done with super old mailing list software, etc instead of the more modern workflow of using forks, PRs in a web UI, etc is tedious and annoying. Making kernel development and maintaining more accesible to younger people would increase the pool of potential maintainers.
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pjmlpalmost 5 years ago
Interesting point of view,<p>&gt; Is C, the language the kernel is for the most part written in, being displaced by the likes of Go and Rust, such that there is &quot;a risk that we&#x27;re becoming the COBOL programmers of the 2030s?&quot; Hohndel asked. &quot;C is still one of the top 10 languages,&quot; answered Torvalds. However, he said that for things &quot;not very central to the kernel itself&quot;, like drivers, the kernel team is looking at &quot;having interfaces to do those, for example, in Rust... I&#x27;m convinced it&#x27;s going to happen. It might not be Rust. But it is going to happen that we will have different models for writing these kinds of things, and C won&#x27;t be the only one.&quot;
RMPRalmost 5 years ago
For people asking why the mailing list, among other things, GKH did an ama session[0] a couple of weeks ago, worth reading before jumping to conclusions too quickly.<p>0: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;linux&#x2F;comments&#x2F;fx5e4v&#x2F;im_greg_kroahhartman_linux_kernel_developer_ama&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;linux&#x2F;comments&#x2F;fx5e4v&#x2F;im_greg_kroah...</a>
bitwizealmost 5 years ago
If Linus wants a maintainer he can just sign kernel maintainership duties over to the entity that will end up with them anyway: Red Hat.
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asfarleyalmost 5 years ago
This kind of reminds me of a similar article I saw, saying that Ruby needed maintainers&#x2F;contributors.<p>I contacted the Ruby development team, and was told: &quot;find something to improve, maybe do an optimization&quot; with no further guidance. So, I moved on to other things.
jgammanalmost 5 years ago
&#x27;It&#x27;s hard to find maintainers&#x27; (that will work for free)
type0almost 5 years ago
&gt; Apple is now likely to deliver the kind of Arm-based machine Torvalds has been waiting for. ®<p>But the question is, will it run Linux® ?
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kerngalmost 5 years ago
Microsoft will come to the rescue
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ta17711771almost 5 years ago
Speaking of! Any Android devs interested in helping maintain&#x2F;build out planned features for:<p>GrapheneOS (most secure AOSP variant) Vanadium browser Auditor (attestation.app)<p>Get in touch by commenting here, or GrapheneOS.org