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Not an Amazon Problem

428 pointsby ciprian_craciunalmost 5 years ago

23 comments

jarielalmost 5 years ago
It&#x27;s maybe worth considering that the surpluses generated from globalism are not being distributed evenly. It doesn&#x27;t mean that the standard of living of any group is going down.<p>I rarely go to Walmart, but every few years I do in the USA, and it constantly blows my mind. The quantity, price and quality of &#x27;stuff&#x27; in there ... you can live extremely well compared to anyone in 1970 just off Walmart.<p>I submit that the surpluses are going to consumers, but because we don&#x27;t price them (i.e. the added value to you in savings or quality doesn&#x27;t go on the books), it&#x27;s not part of the equation.<p>At least in most material ways, the Western World&#x27;s &#x27;cup runneth over with stuff&#x27; ... a lot of which we do not need and is therefore luxury.<p>The financial profits stack up in the top 10%.<p>It&#x27;s unsustainable, but it&#x27;s not all bad news.<p>The other &#x27;Elephant in the Room&#x27; nobody will talk about are the surpluses to middle class yielded form undocumented workers. The US has 10-20M people &#x27;off the books&#x27; working for crap wages, no health insurance. That is a <i>huge</i> part of why everything is so cheap in America. Particularly food and restaurants (the whole value chain is migrant workers it seems).<p>The #1 thing America could do to reduce inequality would be to force companies to pay a real minimum wage. 1&#x2F;2 the undocumented workers would be out of a job, the others would see pay increases.<p>All jobs have to come with healthcare, or at least pay enough such that the income can cover a basic healthcare.gov package or else - what&#x27;s the point? Collect taxes and redistribute via medicare?<p>Taxation at the high end could be increased somewhat.<p>Pushing some of those surpluses into the hands of working people would be a massive boon for the economy.
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Animatsalmost 5 years ago
<i>In fact, life for the US working class these days is shitty, and it’s not by accident, it’s by design. It was called the Reagan-Thatcher neoliberal consensus, and it was wrapped up with lots of high-flying rhetoric about this freedom and that dynamism and those flexibilities, but you don’t have to be that cynical to see it as good old-fashioned class war. It’s obvious who’s winning.</i><p>Yes. Back in the 1970s, the working class was winning. Working class wages were going up 3x faster than CEO wages. The average employee at an auto factory could afford a house, a car, a non-working wife, a college education for his kids, and a good retirement.<p>That had to stop. So a plan was put together by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell.[1] This is the actual memo.[2] It&#x27;s worth reading. Before this, businesses did not lobby much, except over narrow issues. This got the U.S. Chamber of Commmerce into lobbying for business vs labor on a broad front, with funding from big companies.<p>It worked. Near total victory over union power in the private sector has been achieved in the US. The 8 hour day, the 40 hour week, and the minimum wage have been made ineffective. Funded retirement plans are history. &quot;If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.&quot; became national policy. Marketed as &quot;individual rights&quot; and &quot;opportunity&quot;, of course.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;billmoyers.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;the-powell-memo-a-call-to-arms-for-corporations&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;billmoyers.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;the-powell-memo-a-call-to-arm...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;d1uu3oy1fdfoio.cloudfront.net&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2012&#x2F;09&#x2F;Lewis-Powell-Memo.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;d1uu3oy1fdfoio.cloudfront.net&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;201...</a>
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silvestrovalmost 5 years ago
&gt; the Google&#x2F;Facebook ad cartel is rapidly destroying publishing business models that have been essential to civilized human dicourse<p>and<p>&gt; every reporter I’ve talked to has tried to get me to say awful things about Amazon and in particular about Jeff Bezos. But at my last job they taught me to think big and, with all his billions, Jeff is rounding error in the big picture.<p>This sounds like the media business needs a reboot and that we only ascribe such a high value to it because we didn&#x27;t get a look into the sausage factory before. We belived the nice stories the journalists told about themselves.<p>Today we can read what Tim Bray thinks about his interaction with journalists. Before the internet he would never had been able to communicate this to people in the rest of the world.
deanCommiealmost 5 years ago
I admire Tim Bray&#x27;s contributions to our industry, his tireless pursuit to use his privilige and status to advocate for improvements to diversity and inclusion.<p>I also believe in his genuine reasons and motivations for resigning, and the integrity it showed. (Obligatory: yes, he&#x27;s in his 60s who&#x27;s made millions, at some point you gotta retire, and it&#x27;s easy to show integrity when you clearly don&#x27;t need to work again)<p>Having said that, I&#x27;m kind of surprised he&#x27;s surprised by the overall reaction that he got when he quit, and in interviews since then.<p>It&#x27;s popular, easy, and desirable to dunk on Amazon. It&#x27;s the best form of mainstream journalistic clickbait because it brings in and unites the left (who want improved worker rights, and Jeff B is a poster child for wealth imbalance) and the right (who are mad at Jeff&#x27;s perceived left-leaning politics and criticism of Donald Trump via the Washington Post).<p>It is NOT popular to question the very fabric of our western capitalism. Overtures about unsustainable wealth inequality do not resonate well in the mainstream. At the fringes, the right blames the rest of the world, and looks to isolate; the left is readying the guillotines.<p>I think Tim should have known that his message would be misconstrued by both other Amazonians who remained and wrote defensive blog posts, and the rest of the world who&#x27;s holding him up as some Anti-Amazon Crusader.<p>I believe his mistake was to immediately start talking about worker&#x27;s rights when his actual ethical qualm was about the chilling effect of silencing whistleblowers. But...then he wouldn&#x27;t have had the NYTimes writing follow ups months later.
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woodhullalmost 5 years ago
Tim in this piece cites the climate pledge as being an admirable Amazon policy.<p>Unfortunately, it&#x27;s all lofty language and Amazon lags behind its peers on real action.<p>For the AWS cloud business Amazon lags far behind its peers at Microsoft and Google. Of the three main public clouds AWS is the only one still using coal power (coal is a big part of the power mix for the grid used by their largest point of presence in Northern Virgina). Microsoft and Google have run their data centers completely on renewables and have done so for <i>years</i>.<p>We&#x27;re stuck on us-east-1 in Northern Virginia for legacy reasons and to make up for the dirty way that Amazon runs its cloud we buy feed-in RECs for the grid where our AWS instances run. AWS could be doing this themselves (there are RECs available! we&#x27;re buying them!) to help jumpstart the transition to renewables in the energy markets where they operate but they&#x27;re simply choosing not to spend the money.<p>Microsoft and Google deserve credit for their work in this area and they&#x27;re doing a much better job. It&#x27;s just too bad that AWS is a better technical product for our workload.
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simonebrunozzialmost 5 years ago
I am so relieved, and happy, to see Tim Bray (of famed XML) tackle this problem with such wisdom and long term view.<p>Yes, Amazon is a problem, and no, it&#x27;s by far not the only one.<p>I am quite not sure that breaking up big businesses like Amazon and Google will change things much, by the way. And I am not sure that unionizing Amazon would solve much, either.<p>To be honest, I am quite pessimistic about our ability, as a society &#x2F; human specie, to really solve the inequality problem Tim is mentioning. Sorry I don&#x27;t have better words to say.
hypertextheroalmost 5 years ago
&gt; Every single person in America could be lifted above the poverty line with a one-time cash subsidy of around $10,000 per impoverished family (and about $7,000 for impoverished individuals). The total cost would be $170 billion, a little under 5% of the wealth currently controlled by 400 individuals.<p>From [Wealth, shown to scale](<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mkorostoff.github.io&#x2F;1-pixel-wealth&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mkorostoff.github.io&#x2F;1-pixel-wealth&#x2F;</a>)
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ghostclusteralmost 5 years ago
Breaking up US tech companies will cede power to their Chinese competitors. Alibaba will have the advantage.<p>And breaking up the phone company didn&#x27;t improve anything. We just got AT&amp;T again from their well-performing Texas shard. Companies need to be regulated to provide the services the author is looking for.
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emptyparadisealmost 5 years ago
The promise of capitalism for the average person (as opposed to an economist or a business proprietor) was the ability to vote with your wallet, be it through deciding what to buy or who to work for. You still often hear that message from people who are less aware of the dark clouds up above: &quot;just buy a different product&quot; or &quot;just quit and get a new job&quot; - but centralization and monopolization make either impossible.<p>Monopolies have an unfair amount of leverage in this game that must be dealt with. Bring in corporate breakups, bring in increased leverage for the workers (it&#x27;s time to say the u-word), and maybe, just maybe, we can salvage this system yet.<p>I don&#x27;t know about you, but it was the dream of making the world better for everyone and not just a handful of CEOs that sold me on the tech industry. I sure would like for that dream to come true, no matter how many zeroes in valuation it costs.
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thomasmeeksalmost 5 years ago
So I agree with Tim, and in a way he’d probably find too radical.<p>But for the hacker news crowd, I’d point to this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;americanaffairsjournal.org&#x2F;2019&#x2F;11&#x2F;the-real-class-war&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;americanaffairsjournal.org&#x2F;2019&#x2F;11&#x2F;the-real-class-wa...</a><p>TL;DR the income growth of the 0.1% is having a chilling effect on mid-level executives at Amazon and Google, too.
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ridajalmost 5 years ago
&gt; [With] all his billions, Jeff is rounding error in the big picture. He’s not the problem; the legal&#x2F;regulatory power structures that enable him and his peers is.<p>&gt; Amazon is a perfectly OK company, to the extent that planetary-scale sprawling corporate behemoths can be perfectly OK in 2020. Which is to say, not OK at all.<p>Very well put - if Amazon wasn&#x27;t around, the system all but guarantees that some other company would play the same kind of role. &quot;Hate the game, don&#x27;t hate the player&quot;
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nukeralmost 5 years ago
&gt; .. what well-done cloud computing is like. The IT world likes it.<p>Yep, to the extent that its a deal breaker for new jobs. AWS API is awesome. 10yrs cloud engineer here.
peterwwillisalmost 5 years ago
This focus on business and capitalism is just one part of a larger jigsaw puzzle, which is an economy based on American exceptionalism and the American dream. The former states that we must be unique and the best, and the latter states that everyone is able to have a castle, a good job, leisure time, retirement, etc. But they don&#x27;t explicitly state <i>how</i> we get those things.<p>At no point in the American story does it say that wealth is to be distributed fairly. The past century has shown that as popular revolts upended the old ideas of aristocracy and monarchy, the US elite became extremely fearful of the idea of a more equal society. Communism was the worst specter of this potential loss of personal wealth for the elites, but its modern forms are also increased taxation, universal health care, increased public education&#x2F;transporation&#x2F;housing, etc. The more you distribute wealth to the rabble, the less wealth you can have as an individual, and Americanism is all about personal wealth (personal freedom comes largely from personal wealth; you can&#x27;t even be the king of a puddle if you don&#x27;t own the land it sits on).<p>It&#x27;s similar to ancient Rome. The citizens can live quite comfortably as long as they have soldiers, slaves, and foreign riches. The big corporations of today are a modern-day Roman army: roving the world to capture and bring home cheap goods. The generals, senators, and merchants get the majority of the loot, and the citizens get fresh bread and garum, fruit, and the occasional exotic spice.<p>And much like the circuses of Empire, as long as the rabble are kept in bread and games, they&#x27;ll put up with anything. No health care, no education, 3 jobs? Keep them in bread and games and they&#x27;ll be satisfied. Netflix provides the circus, Wal-Mart provides the bread. Why would the rabble want them broken up when they&#x27;re getting exactly what they want?<p>So this notion of fighting the status quo is really anti-American. You can&#x27;t get far with the argument without butting heads against the fact that people would have to give up their cheap t-shirts, and that some would always have to work hard and live poor their whole lives. There&#x27;s no way around it: <i>somebody</i> has to pay for our wealth, surplus, and convenience. If it&#x27;s not us, it&#x27;ll have to be someone else.
nurettinalmost 5 years ago
&gt; The company is working hard on Diversity &amp; Inclusion<p>As a foreigner, I am trying to understand this statement.<p>You&#x27;ve got a bag with 100 marbles. 50 blue, 40 red, 10 white. HR needs to pick 15 marbles. Does the HR try to pick all marbles equally? So 50% of whites, 10% of blues, 12.5% of reds is chosen. Doesn&#x27;t seem fair to blues and reds.
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lvsalmost 5 years ago
Capitalism is just an algorithm. It&#x27;s only an ideology if you make it one. It&#x27;s just a system of allocation and ownership that has clear tendencies and side-effects, well understood for many decades.<p>The experiment has shown that, as the system evolves, it doesn&#x27;t have a stable state. One needs to bolt on additional controls to try to keep it in a stable state, or else one gets concentration of wealth and power. All the symptoms of that are pretty obvious with endless spilled ink. I really don&#x27;t think this stuff should be controversial to people who are normally thinking about the behavior of complex systems.
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wayanonalmost 5 years ago
People won’t pay more if there’s a choice.
tracer4201almost 5 years ago
Page doesn’t load for me. Can anyone summarize?
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bawolffalmost 5 years ago
I feel like this isn&#x27;t terribly compelling. I have heard the whole corporations are evil and primarily look out for their own best interest before. I think people have been talking about this for over a century now. I don&#x27;t even disagree (at most, i might say the truth is more complicated, but it always is).<p>I guess the article leaves me thinking, so what do you want to do instead? Communist revolution? Anarchist utopia? The article posits that we should break up some specificly named corporations, but doesn&#x27;t even give a criteria as to why those corps, other than i suppose the author dislikes them. Why them and not others? What&#x27;s the objective criteria?
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jjsdflkjsdkkkalmost 5 years ago
&quot;It was called the Reagan-Thatcher neoliberal consensus, and it was wrapped up with lots of high-flying rhetoric about this freedom and that dynamism and those flexibilities, but you don’t have to be that cynical to see it as good old-fashioned class war. It’s obvious who’s winning.&quot;<p>Since Reagon was president, the US population has grown by 82 Million people (32% increase). At the same time, jobs went to China and so on.<p>Is it certain that Reagan is to blame, and how? What if poor people just stopped having kids? Why is it assumed that there are good paying jobs for everybody, no matter how many people there are? Where do they come from?
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WalterBrightalmost 5 years ago
&gt; carbon-vomiting oil extractors<p>Language like that discredits the whole article as a hysterical piece.<p>In any case, oil extractors are in business only because ordinary people want gasoline to drive their cars.
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netsectodayalmost 5 years ago
What did I just read? An ex-Amazon employee &#x27;lashing out&#x27; by saying that regulators should break up Google, Facebook, and Microsoft, then leave Amazon alone because they will probably &#x27;do the right thing&#x27; by spinning-off AWS? That Big Tech shouldn&#x27;t exist, however, Jeff Bezos is a rounding error? It really sounds like he got paid to write this.
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TedDoesntTalkalmost 5 years ago
&gt; the fabric of society is in danger of breaking<p>Really? That is hyperbolic to me, and I was not as interested in reading the rest of his article after that.
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toohotatopicalmost 5 years ago
How do you create planetary structures but with super-companies and rich people?<p>People don&#x27;t innovate by themselves. The workers and&#x2F;or engineers of the US or the world could have pooled their money and built AWS or space rockets, or electric cars. But they haven&#x27;t. It takes money and actions from few people to get stuff done.
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