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Carl Bergstrom on data manipulation, fake news,& using science as a lie detector

39 pointsby xingyztalmost 5 years ago

8 comments

joshgelalmost 5 years ago
I find that in office politics, once data is presented, it becomes the &#x27;facts&#x27;. (Or at least the narrative that gets promulgated forward.) It&#x27;s incredibly challenging to change the &#x27;facts&#x27;&#x2F;narrative. Often because of the challenge in demonstrating the others&#x27; data are false or show a misleading picture.<p>I think this is somewhat like convincing people that believed the early studies on hydroxychloroquine. A narrative was built and despite multiple studies and RCTs, it continues in many circles. If the initial data showed a different picture, I have a hard time imagining the on-going challenge of fighting this disinformation battle. (it would have been another).
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LargoLasskhyfvalmost 5 years ago
My personal motto in dealing with this is:<p><i>Stressen, Meutern, Flegeln!</i> as a juxtaposition of <i>Messen, Steuern, Regeln</i> which is German for [1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Instrumentation_and_control_engineering" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Instrumentation_and_control_en...</a><p>The battle for hearts and minds [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ww1.habsburger.net&#x2F;en&#x2F;chapters&#x2F;battle-hearts-and-minds" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ww1.habsburger.net&#x2F;en&#x2F;chapters&#x2F;battle-hearts-and-min...</a> is nothing new, now fought by cybernetic means. [3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cybernetics" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cybernetics</a><p>Considering this, as a precaution to not having ones strings pulled by mechanisms of media, regardless of state- or non-state actors in the [4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Attention_economy" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Attention_economy</a> I implented a mental default-deny for pull requests in the spirit of [5] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Art_of_Not_Being_Governed" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Art_of_Not_Being_Governed</a><p><i>Stressen</i> as in stress back if someone&#x2F;thing is stressing you.<p>By <i>Meutern</i> as in mutiny.<p>And lastly by <i>Flegeln</i> as in being a Yahoo, Redneck, Hick, Hool, Honk, Punk etc. about it.<p>(Edit: Vanishing fast into the off, yelling <i>Geronimo Banzai</i>!)
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perl4everalmost 5 years ago
That&#x27;s why they call it &quot;data&quot; and not &quot;information&quot;.
nkingsyalmost 5 years ago
He seems not to expect change in the &quot;populist&quot; element in the current media landscape. The only policy opinions&#x2F;spitballs I read in the interview were banning political advertising on social media and public support for independent journalism, and he didn&#x27;t give the impression that he thought either would go very far.<p>It seems like paradigm shifts happen more often than we think. They always surprise me, at least (BLM, same sex marriage, legalized pot in the US). Reading between the lines, I think he&#x27;s saying that barring a paradigm shift, this new kind of &quot;anti-democratic populism&quot; is going to be around for a while.
raphlinusalmost 5 years ago
Carl Bergstrom is one of my favorite Twitter follows, especially on topics that are pushed by seemingly legit sources (including peer-reviewed publications) but contain serious flaws in reasoning. The course sounds amazing, and I&#x27;m sure the book is good as well.
pmdulaneyalmost 5 years ago
&quot;If some guy rolls in with a fancy algorithm telling you someone is a criminal using facial features, you need to be able to say that is nuts.&quot;<p>OK, maybe. But I think that it is just as often political correctness as science that allows one to dismiss such assertions out of hand. As much, as a gentile, I would like to be able to dismiss &quot;The Jews really are smarter than the rest of us&quot; out of hand, some unpopular assertions may in fact be true. And I think truth has to come before other considerations. (Though it may be best not to make such assertions at all if there&#x27;s not a good reason to.)<p>Overall, though, I really liked what Bergstrom had to say. What he had to say about mockery being unproductive was some practical wisdom.
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Shoopalmost 5 years ago
@dang: Could we get a title change?<p>Maybe &quot;Carl Bergstrom on data manipulation, fake news, and the importance of using science as a lie detector&quot;
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etangentalmost 5 years ago
This has always been the case, not sure why this is news.
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