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Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

236 pointsby samsolomonalmost 5 years ago

39 comments

kazen44almost 5 years ago
The collapse of the fashion industry does not mean the clothing industry will collapse.<p>People still need clothing obviously (cheap and of good quality preferably).<p>Also, what do we consider the fashion industry exactly? Most long term clothing trends seem to be dictated by a couple of factors. Consisting of:<p>- practicality. Jeans are good example of this. It&#x27;s cheap and practical clothing that lasts a long time.<p>- cultural &quot;requirement&quot;: clothing that is required to fit into social circles. The shirt would be a good example of this, aswell as the tie.<p>- Enviromental requirements: This one should be obvious ofcourse, No one wears a wool jacket in abu dabi.<p>Fast fashion and the fashion industry as a whole seems incredibly wasteful to me. Buying new clothing because of yearly trends is way to damaging to the enviroment for what it&#x27;s worth.
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coldteaalmost 5 years ago
So, in the 80s, there was this anti-cassete copying campaign, and they were stickers etc, &quot;Record copying is killing the music industry&quot;.<p>And Jello Biafra (iirc), said: &quot;Record copying is killing the music industry - and it&#x27;s about time!&quot;.<p>I&#x27;d say the same for the fashion industry - selling crap, made in sweatshops, marked up 10x to 100x, for mindless, environmentally unfriendly consumption based on BS advice of complicit websites, tv shows, magazines, etc., on what people should wear next...
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the8472almost 5 years ago
&gt; Now a global pandemic had hit. He couldn’t foresee that. No one did.<p><i>Some</i> people did. Taiwan prepared after SARS. Of course nobody forsaw all possible consequences but it would be better to say that not everyone has the capacity to account for all possible tail risks.
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pwinnskialmost 5 years ago
I read the article, then was surprised to see that the comments here are focused to much on the clothing part of the story, rather than the investment and financing parts of the story.<p>They way VC is described in the story seems familiar to me from time spent working for Bay-area startups, and I think the critiques in the story apply in tech as well.
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MattGaiseralmost 5 years ago
Good riddance. The majority of my clothing spending was for rarely worn social compliance items like a suit, ties, and nice shoes.
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joostersalmost 5 years ago
“<i>Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.</i>”<p>With the fashion industry &#x27;<i>pushing the unseen and unsold 2020 collections into 2021</i>&#x27;, Oscar Wilde&#x27;s quote may no longer be true!
apozemalmost 5 years ago
The way this article frames it, all these fashion companies are going direct-to-consumer (DTC) as their business model salvation, but that is only good for Facebook.<p>&gt; Here is the problem for DTC companies: Facebook really is better at finding them customers than anyone else. That means that the best return-on-investment for acquiring customers is on Facebook, where DTC companies are competing against all of the other DTC companies and mobile game developers and incumbent CPG companies and everyone else for user attention. That means the real winner is Facebook, while DTC companies are slowly choked by ever-increasing customer acquisition costs. Facebook is the company that makes the space work, and so it is only natural that Facebook is harvesting most of the profitability from the DTC value chain.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stratechery.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;brandless-closes-the-dtc-facebook-challenge-dtc-versus-softbank&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stratechery.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;brandless-closes-the-dtc-facebo...</a>
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dredmorbiusalmost 5 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sans-culottes" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sans-culottes</a>
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badrabbitalmost 5 years ago
Even sweatpants grow old. Feels weird but sometimes I need to put on work clothes even if no one will see me in that outfit. It helps a little to set boundaries.
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waihtisalmost 5 years ago
I think there&#x27;s a lost opportunity here to bring monk-type robes back into fashion.
mthomsalmost 5 years ago
I&#x27;m saddened by the job losses, but the fashion industry (esp. the high end) seems nothing but a toxic drain on society and the environment. New &quot;trends&quot; dictated by celebrities and designers every year do nothing but sow personal insecurities and environmental destruction. Good riddance.
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exabrialalmost 5 years ago
<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;vDYqU" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;vDYqU</a>
dgutalmost 5 years ago
font-size: 30px; max-width: 600px;<p>Is it just me who has difficulties reading this article on desktop?
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Razenganalmost 5 years ago
This problem seems to be US specific.<p>If you look up YouTube street tours of some European countries or Japan or even Russia, you&#x27;ll notice that the average person is still generally fashionable, certainly more so than in the US.
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diebeforei485almost 5 years ago
Fast fashion is terrible for the environment[1]. It&#x27;s good that things are moving towards comfort and longevity.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;xGF3ObOBbac" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;xGF3ObOBbac</a>
torgianalmost 5 years ago
Most of my money net goes towards cycling gear. I buy new clothes maybe once a year or once every two years.<p>I have a custom made suit that I bought from a bespoke tailor in Chengdu for about 1200 usd including custom shoes.<p>I still want to find a nice trench coat for winter, and I saw one at Dior that I really liked. Didn’t want to pay the 5000 usd price tag though.
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dstickalmost 5 years ago
My preference is to buy full black jeans and shirts, 10 at a time. They look good and don’t go out of style. No insecurity when going outdoors and tons of cognitive load freed up for other stuff every morning. Instead of having to choose an outfit every morning... It’s too exhausting to keep up with trends ;)
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DonHopkinsalmost 5 years ago
Speaking of fashion design, the snake-text formatting and layout and industrial snarkiness of this NYT article is totally reminiscent of suck.com (i.e. 22 December 1995):<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20060127002252&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.suck.com&#x2F;daily&#x2F;1995&#x2F;12&#x2F;22&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20060127002252&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.suck.c...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Suck.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Suck.com</a><p>Ten years later, the story of Suck.com (2005):<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10143395" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10143395</a><p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.keepgoing.org&#x2F;issue20_giant&#x2F;the_big_fish.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.keepgoing.org&#x2F;issue20_giant&#x2F;the_big_fish.html</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10143805" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10143805</a><p>&gt; nailer: Inventor of snake text, which is now so ubiquitous it doesn&#x27;t have a name.<p>&gt; derefr: So ubiquitous that Google can&#x27;t define it for me, either, it seems. What is it?<p>&gt; Cederfjard: I&#x27;d never heard of it either. This is one of the results my search yielded: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20130420012902&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;longform.org&#x2F;stories&#x2F;web-dreams-the-story-of-suck" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20130420012902&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;longform....</a><p>&gt;HotWired&#x27;s Flux, a weekly gossip column from the pseudonymous Ned Brainard, was close. The column was the first example of what the Web magazine Salon (www.salon1999.com) dismissed as &quot;snake text,&quot; meaning the story ran in one long, narrow column.
hmmazoidsalmost 5 years ago
Honestly I like some aspects of the fashion industry -- shoes, hats, even shirts or collar shirts all have some personality you can showcase who you are and give yourself an identity (I think that&#x27;s what makes fashion kinda interesting).<p>However, pants? It&#x27;s not really that different. I could care less lol
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neonatealmost 5 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;vDYqU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;vDYqU</a>
wonderwonderalmost 5 years ago
Looking at the brand in question in the article, their sweatsuits look very similar to any $20 sweatsuit but cost $88 for the top and $88 for the bottom.<p>I would argue that the reason high end fashion is dying is because no one can afford it and more importantly I think people realize there is no need. Amazon provides exposure to a wide range of acceptable clothing for pennies on the dollar compared to high end brands. If the quality is not great and it does not last as long, I&#x27;ll just buy another. If i have to buy 5 of them, I am still probably better off and that really does not happen, the quality is generally fine.
spaetzleesseralmost 5 years ago
I am getting pretty tired of sweatpants but regular pants feel uncomfortable while working from home. Does anybody know some pants that are reasonably comfortable but still a little stylish?
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jshaqawalmost 5 years ago
I’m on the pretty low to nonexistent level of fashion consciousness but fast forward 8 months to a world where maybe there is a vaccine. I can see a rebound cultural shift to going out&#x2F;dressing up bringing back fashionable clothing for work and play stronger than pre-pandemic. There can easily be a cultural shift away from everyone sitting in their basement playing Animal Crossing in dirty sweatpants on Saturday night. I’m a homebody introvert but when the vaccine hits man I’m hitting the town hard!
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Cthulhu_almost 5 years ago
The &quot;fast&quot; fashion industry maybe, which has been an over-inflated, Brave New World-like market for decades. When it comes down to it, people don&#x27;t need more than a few items of clothes. And right now we&#x27;re in a situation where it comes down to it. Comfort and practicality are important now, not whether your outfit is fresh or fashionable.
spodekalmost 5 years ago
For anyone who cares about sustainability and how textiles and fashion relate, the documentary <i>The True Cost</i> will change everything for you. It&#x27;s available free online: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thoughtmaybe.com&#x2F;the-true-cost" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thoughtmaybe.com&#x2F;the-true-cost</a>.<p>The industry pollutes and oppresses beyond what you think.
motohagiographyalmost 5 years ago
From other thread: As a former fashion writer, the &quot;fashion industry,&quot; reduces to a spectacle for selling perfume and cosmetics. Fashion itself is an expression of beliefs, power, and alignment that people buy clothes to participate in.<p>In this sense, fashion is to clothing what live music is to alcohol, or what journalism is to advertising. There is an underlying high-margin business that you use a spectacle to attract people into to sell them stuff. The talent for the spectacle exists in a local equilibrium that is largely oblivious to the economics that make it viable. Journalists are a great example of people who thought they were the money maker and remain in denial about the economics of their role of bringing readers to advertisers.<p>Fashion designers (like Jacobs in the article) appear to have the same conceit, where their role as the spectacle that draws in punters who buy super high margin smelly water, face paint, and snake oil lotions has been displaced. Covid has just been the coup de gras, where the fashion business has been steadily being polarized and dis-intermediated for at least a decade. A business that promised and re-sold proximity to fame was really taken out much earlier by Instagram and its influencer economy, where now everyone is famous for Warhol&#x27;s 15 minutes, and the returns on investment in fame schemes are now much more diffuse.<p>The dynamic described in the article about luxury clothing in the end resembles the book and publishing business, where you are in effect consigning product to retailers, who make massive orders for their big box shops, then destroy you with returns. It&#x27;s like how movies spent almost 100 years in in the popcorn and concessions business, and they&#x27;ve found totally new economics in the streaming game. Fixing fashion is the same class of problem as fixing journalism, publishing, music, movies, and arts in general, where the economics of getting people together to sell them complimentary high margin goods in the moment and place was decimated by social media, and now finished off by covid. These markets aren&#x27;t dead, but they are now polarized, where the super high end is fine, and the absolute bottom will persist, but the lucrative middle is hollowed out. These fashion design brands made most of their money on middle market goods backed by over leveraged private equity investments and sunk costs in conglomerates, and that&#x27;s why they&#x27;re getting killed by this.<p>Fashion is the business of symbols and signifiers and there is infinite human demand for these (just as there is for stories, conflict&#x2F;news, spectacle, etc), so future businesses using totally different modalities will pick up the slack to meet it, but reading fashion talent hand wringing about their market is like listening to journalists talk about the economics of publishing, hockey players discussing team ownership, or perhaps even us hackers talking about venture capital. What we think is meaningful and decisive, it&#x27;s not meaningful and decisive.
WalterBrightalmost 5 years ago
I admit it, I miss the style of the 80&#x27;s - Miami Vice, Duran Duran, etc.
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Jemmalmost 5 years ago
Good. The fashion industry is toxic and wasteful. I hope it does not survive, but of course I am sorry for the people who&#x27;s livelihood is impacted.
chiefalchemistalmost 5 years ago
Fashion is simply marketing gone wild. It&#x27;s preying on the idea that the best way to be a better you is to wear ____. That you can cure your inferiority complex by consuming X, Y or Z. Which in turn belittles those around you, and so on.<p>TL;TD - An expensive ____ (e.g., watch) doesn&#x27;t make you a better person. And you know this. So you get a nice car. Doesn&#x27;t help. So you get new shoes. And so on.<p>Fashion is a cure for people who lack confidence and style. But that cure is more like an addiction.
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kwhitefootalmost 5 years ago
For an article on an international industry this was quite astonishingly parochial. What is happening outside the US?
torgianalmost 5 years ago
I’m gonna start wearing my cycling jerseys and bibs everywhere I go in tennis shoes now.
tibbydudezaalmost 5 years ago
Lounge pants for the win.
vaibhawcalmost 5 years ago
He studied economics.
Melting_Harpsalmost 5 years ago
Isn&#x27;t this ultimately a good thing? I recall someone here made a post about how much Green House Emissions are created as a result of the Fashion Industry.<p>Personally I haven&#x27;t worn sweatpants since I was in mandated gym class in HS and it was too cold outside for those overpriced cheaply made shorts and have instead opted for gym clothes (as it was closed) which are nylon&#x2F;synthetic wicking and breathable during the winter months and then cargo shorts collection I&#x27;ve had and added to since I was in University in the summer.<p>Honestly, while I think Women&#x27;s fashion is mainly a thing they do for themselves, as most guys care more about what is underneath the clothes, its something that should be disrupted if its true it accounts for so much environmental costs. And perhaps we could accelerate the tech needed to &#x27;3d print&#x27; clothes&#x2F;outfits, or at least something like a community based automated textile model where you bring a &#x27;print&#x2F;template&#x27; of the outfit adjusted for your measurements, pay a sum to the operators and come back a few days later with the clothes you want and cutting out the middle men.<p>This could spur on a ton of creative sub-cultures like they have in France, Italy, Japan or England that so many have talked about about in this thread, as they still have a significant demand for tailors to meet the Global demand.<p>I tip really well when I take my clothes to the local dry cleaner own and operated by a Family of Koreans because not only do they have a dry-cleaning business, they&#x27;re situated inside the family owned landromat with about 40 machines, but also have a garment altering business, a shoe repair business inside them and are perhaps trail-blazing how clothing could be done in the Future with a modern automated textile model as an adjunct now that retail real estate is undergoing an Apocalypse situation and can be had for cheap.<p>I wear timeless fashion things for formal wear and its usually made in Italy or S. Korea these days, I wish I could put a few local seamstresses&#x2F;tailors&#x2F;shoe artisans back to work and stop relying on needless shipping costs and the harm that goes with it for my clothing. Even if it costs more I&#x27;d prefer to stop relying on this model for the few $1000s I spend on clothes a year.<p>&gt; Yes, but Jeans are part of the collapse now and considered formal for creatives with Levi&#x27;s down 62% and doing layoffs. I thought &quot;formality&quot; was bizarre as well, but apparently their target demo don&#x27;t consider the older skinny-jeans, and the new high-waisted mom-jeans to be as comfortable as Lulus... who&#x27;d have thunk it?<p>It&#x27;s CEO did, I saw his interview in a podcast about how he saw the trend happening from Yogis and Health Centric movements in the early days and how he swept in after the 2008 financial crises when many of the former Bar Hopper scenesters switched to the Gym for their socilizing place of choice due to less expendable income.<p>He still thinks the one piece lycra smart-clothes movement that measures all kinds of vitals and provides a ton of real-time health information is in the works for the next transition, but that Lulu is the first phase to get to that. If I recall correctly, he came from the outdoor&#x2F;skate-snowboard Industries and caught that wave before starting Lulu and had a lot of success there. Overall it was interesting and insightful on something I give almost no real focus toward, clothing trends are something I stopped caring about in HS and I&#x27;ve seen so many things &#x27;come back in style&#x27; that I see how unoriginal &#x27;fashion&#x27; really is.
znpyalmost 5 years ago
tl;dr: the fashion bubble popped.
bwastialmost 5 years ago
perhaps title &quot;Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed&quot; for context?
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sukilotalmost 5 years ago
Has the Submarine resurfaced after 15 years?<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;submarine.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;submarine.html</a>
Camilloalmost 5 years ago
This is basically a twelve-thousand-word advertorial for this Sternberg guy&#x27;s brand, AFAICT.
INTPenisalmost 5 years ago
I see fashion every single day, people aren&#x27;t under lock and key like what happened in China where they welded apartment doors shut from the outside, on at least one occasion.<p>Such a non-article that really shows how the media inflamed the whole influenza story.<p>It&#x27;s their job to write. Writing stuff literally puts food on their table. Even when it&#x27;s something as stupid as fashion industry collapsing.<p>An influenza season with a higher death rate than usual is a gold mine to them. A literal golden age of media.
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