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Epic direct payment on mobile

414 pointsby bdzalmost 5 years ago

37 comments

theli0nheartalmost 5 years ago
This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple&#x27;s anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers.<p>If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not taking anything off the top here; they make the same amount of money whether consumers choose to purchase through the App Store or through Epic&#x27;s direct payment system.<p>If they keep Fortnite on the App Store, they&#x27;re going to need to make a rule change to allow alternative payment methods within apps. One of Apple&#x27;s main defenses during antitrust hearings was that App Review applies rules fairly and consistently. If they don&#x27;t change the rules, that argument falls dead in the water.<p>Epic leadership knows that this is going to cause a firestorm. I&#x27;m happy that a large company with market power decided this was the right time to do this. I doubt Apple and Epic worked together on this; there&#x27;s no way that this doesn&#x27;t completely embarrass Apple and its App Store policies.<p>It will be exciting to see how this plays out, but my bet is that this is going to lead to a huge win for Apple developers.
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aryalmost 5 years ago
My guess is that this is a gambit to force Apple’s hand during a time when there is the most intense antitrust pressure over the App Store since it’s launch. If Apple cracks down then it’s just more fuel for the antitrust fire, and potentially evidence in court. If they allow it then it’s precedent that others can use to employ the same tactic. Either way it seems to me Epic is taking a calculated risk to induce change.
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epagaalmost 5 years ago
My money is on Apple cracking down hard on this. It looks clearly as if Epic remotely activated this direct payment option, thereby bypassing Apple&#x27;s App Review.<p>Apple will not take kindly to this. Best case scenario for Epic (and Fortnite players): they invite Sweeney in for some hard negotiations. Worst case: Fortnite ends up getting removed from iOS for this.
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sawarunaalmost 5 years ago
&gt;Does a new payment method on mobile mean purchases there are less safe?<p>&gt;No. Thousands of apps on the App Store approved by Apple accept direct payments, including commonly used apps like Amazon, Grubhub, Nike SNKRS, Best Buy, DoorDash, Fandango, McDonalds, Uber, Lyft, and StubHub. We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps. [0]<p>All of these services provide something physical. You can&#x27;t buy Kindle Books, for example, on Amazon&#x27;s app on iOS. This a bit disingenuous.<p>&gt;We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps.<p>Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut?<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.epicgames.com&#x2F;site&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;fortnite-mega-drop-faq" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.epicgames.com&#x2F;site&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;fortnite-mega-drop-faq</a>
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rsweeney21almost 5 years ago
Epic is declaring war on app store fees and other monopolistic app store practices. Tim Sweeney (no relation) has been a very vocal opponent of the app store practices of Apple and Google. He views them as monopolistic and anti-competitive.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;TimSweeneyEpic&#x2F;status&#x2F;1289611397702197248" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;TimSweeneyEpic&#x2F;status&#x2F;128961139770219724...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;TimSweeneyEpic&#x2F;status&#x2F;1289227550431031296" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;TimSweeneyEpic&#x2F;status&#x2F;128922755043103129...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;TimSweeneyEpic&#x2F;status&#x2F;1288521230702739457" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;TimSweeneyEpic&#x2F;status&#x2F;128852123070273945...</a><p>My inside sources tell me that this move is intended to start a legal battle with Apple and Google.<p>I really love Epic.
cloudkingalmost 5 years ago
Maybe the Apple cut is too high, but I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s unreasonable for them to take some cut. They are providing the distribution platform to get your app to millions of users, it&#x27;s not free for them to provide that service. They have their own server, bandwidth and employee costs too.
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stdgyalmost 5 years ago
Ballsy, I love it. Hopefully it can be used as evidence in any antitrust actions against Apple, in the US or abroad. It&#x27;s clear that Apple&#x27;s behavior negatively impacts consumer pricing.
virtue3almost 5 years ago
I love how they are &quot;passing the savings down to us&quot; from a non existing digital item that they set the price of.<p>Ugh.<p>Anyway, this should be absolutely fascinating to watch how the antitrust cases against the app stores go!
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stephc_int13almost 5 years ago
Tim Cook vs Tim Sweeney, this is a serious round, with possible big implications for many developers and companies.<p>In the end, both Epic and Apple are big corporations that should not be blindly trusted, but my money is on Sweeney, I have greater faith in the uber-nerd vs the perfect production manager.
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devitalmost 5 years ago
Finally someone stands up to the monopolists!
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SuperTachyonalmost 5 years ago
Epic is conveying that the 30% cut on App Store was raising the prices. But Xbox and PlayStation has the same cut, yet Epic has lower pricing on these platforms.
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huacalmost 5 years ago
How are they justifying this? A linked blog post goes into more detail: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.epicgames.com&#x2F;fortnite&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;news&#x2F;announcing-epic-direct-payment-on-mobile;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.epicgames.com&#x2F;fortnite&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;news&#x2F;announcing-epi...</a> but it seems like they are extending the payment processing tools which they built for web to mobile. There are loopholes but not clear which one they&#x27;re claiming to use (if any).
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andjdalmost 5 years ago
It looks like Apple has already pulled fortnite from the app store
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dingdongdingalmost 5 years ago
Yeah I wonder they did a backroom deal with Apple and Google. These backroom deals that Apple&#x2F;Google are doing is so anti competitive for small app developers and they keep on stressing that they are helping millions of developers. If this is not unfair I don&#x27;t know what is.
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bdzalmost 5 years ago
Curious how this will play out because they explicitly bypass both Google and Apple
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trolliedalmost 5 years ago
Fortnite has been removed from the App Store as a result.<p>Things are about to get interesting.
blauditorealmost 5 years ago
Meanwhile, other apps get banned for having donation buttons.
dangooralmost 5 years ago
If you squint, this is kind of like the deal that Apple made with Amazon so that you can use your card-on-file with Amazon to rent videos via Prime Video: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;01&#x2F;apple-agreement-with-amazon-lets-you-rent-movies-through-prime-video.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;01&#x2F;apple-agreement-with-amazon-...</a>
elwellalmost 5 years ago
&gt; PERMANENT DISCOUNTS<p>That&#x27;s a bold promise if Apple shuts the practice down. Will need to go back on the promised permanency or take the loss.
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LegitShadyalmost 5 years ago
Tencent will pay to fight this in court forever. Sad to be hoping for epic&#x2F;tencent to succeed but apples policies are worse.
skizmalmost 5 years ago
Epic: Apple employs anti-competitive, anti-consumer practices, and we&#x27;re fighting against that!<p>Also Epic: We&#x27;ll be locking as many games as we can afford behind Epic Store exclusive contracts since our store isn&#x27;t good enough to compete with Steam on functionality or price.
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chriswwwebalmost 5 years ago
EDIT: interesting, I just found this tweet (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ballmatthew&#x2F;status&#x2F;1293903865557979136" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ballmatthew&#x2F;status&#x2F;1293903865557979136</a>) that mentions other companies like McDonalds and Starbucks are also exempt<p>Indeed this is huge, well it will be huge if the app is still in the store by tomorrow ... I wonder what apple will do? I wonder if apple greenlighted this? If they didn’t get this greenlighted, I wonder how they bypassed the Apples app review process (in app updates instead of a store update?)?<p>I can’t wait to see how all of this unfolds, years ago I was part of a team that built a music app that got refused in the app store because we had included payments via a credit card processor, bypassing the 30% apple tax and today I’m in the process of building another app which is impacted by this … I also imagine companies like spotify are following this very closely
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hugey010almost 5 years ago
Per the App Store Review guidelines: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.apple.com&#x2F;app-store&#x2F;review&#x2F;guidelines&#x2F;#unacceptable" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.apple.com&#x2F;app-store&#x2F;review&#x2F;guidelines&#x2F;#una...</a> If payment is taken IN the app, not using Apple Pay, and not to an approved non-profit, it&#x27;s in direct violation and should be removed.<p>I&#x27;ve had to update multiple apps that took donations, in order to pay for development work, and Apple absolutely won&#x27;t let that fly anymore. On Apple&#x27;s behalf, this unacceptable, illegal, and infuriating. I might consider joining a class-action lawsuit like this one: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hbsslaw.com&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;case_downloads&#x2F;apple-dev&#x2F;2019-06-04-complaint-apple-developers.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hbsslaw.com&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;case_downloads&#x2F;apple-dev&#x2F;201...</a>
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gregoriolalmost 5 years ago
This looks great for the future, balsy for sure, but like Hey did. Change is on the way!
alkonautalmost 5 years ago
If fortnite had an alternative payment method that wasn&#x27;t exposed in the iOS app (e.g. only on the web, but you would buy credits that you could use in the app) then I don&#x27;t see how Apple would have a leg to stand on.
vinialmost 5 years ago
Epic already had a lawsuit ready for this:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;FortniteGame&#x2F;status&#x2F;1293994211621167105" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;FortniteGame&#x2F;status&#x2F;1293994211621167105</a>
minimaxiralmost 5 years ago
The Apple&#x2F;antitrust angle has been covered, but this Direct payment bypass also affects Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and Google. Won&#x27;t they take issue with it as well?
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gokalmost 5 years ago
Curious what Epic would do if game developers started offering an option in their games to just not pay the 5% Unreal Engine tax and passed the savings onto consumers.
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arberxalmost 5 years ago
And Fortnite just got removed from the App Store.
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bintherealmost 5 years ago
If I&#x27;m a small developer, how can I process payments directly without having to pay the fee to another provider?
irjustinalmost 5 years ago
Isn&#x27;t the cut 70% for inapp purchases? I&#x27;m all for this, but there seems to be a 10% gap?
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orliesaurusalmost 5 years ago
I wonder if the only reason for having &quot;both&quot; payment systems in place, is some kind of unwritten rule (or secret handshake between Epic Games and their Apple account manager of some sorts) that will allow them to keep Fortnite on the app-store!
bassman9000almost 5 years ago
Reminder: Tencent owns 40% of Epic.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pcgamer.com&#x2F;every-game-company-that-tencent-has-invested-in&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pcgamer.com&#x2F;every-game-company-that-tencent-has-...</a><p>Their dumping power can be almost limitless.
CreepGinalmost 5 years ago
Is it against Apple terms to be offering multiple payment methods?
KingOfCodersalmost 5 years ago
Couldnt the title be &quot;Epic Direct Payment&quot; on Mobile?
deagle50almost 5 years ago
Shots fired. Optimal time to strike right after the hearings.
Simulacraalmost 5 years ago
Apple ain’t gonna like this!