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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

153 pointsby Cantbekhanover 4 years ago

16 comments

jdeibeleover 4 years ago
As a family of two adults and 3 children we&#x27;ve very much appreciated being able to stay in places where we can cook for ourselves, be able to do laundry, and have space to spread out a bit.<p>In the US, there are chains like Embassy Suites that work well for families because they have two bedrooms separated by a living&#x2F;cooking area. The fact that they&#x27;re typically far outside downtown matters a lot less because we&#x27;ve rented a car.<p>In Europe, we usually didn&#x27;t want to rent a car. Having 5 people was a problem with hotels because their typical limit was 4 people to a room. So being able to rent an apartment or house near downtown was wonderful.<p>If you don&#x27;t have kids, there&#x27;s nothing quite like watching your 3 kids refuse to eat the $15&#x2F;each meal that you ordered. Repeatedly. And have to resort to crackers or chips from a convenience store.<p>It&#x27;s going to be interesting to see what the outcome of the pandemic will be. We stayed on a house on a canal in Amsterdam and it was amazing. But you can see why the locals would want that house available to themselves.
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RestlessMindover 4 years ago
&gt; Short-stay specialist Airbnb said it welcomed a decision that &quot;will go to help in clarifying the rules&quot;.<p>Why does that leave me with a feeling that Airbnb now considers itself to be entrenched enough that they are welcoming government regulations which will prevent upstarts from competing with it?
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joshgevover 4 years ago
I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing.<p>I&#x27;ve had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving trash everywhere, etc. The interesting thing is the short-term units weren&#x27;t cheap; they were actually rather expensive. So it wasn&#x27;t as though we were getting a bunch of college partier types; they were typically young professionals. Given how unpleasant it was, I can&#x27;t imagine how bad it would be if the quality of guests had been different.<p>The building was a large house that had been divided into a number of units. I spoke to some of our neighbors (who owned their homes, they were not renting units like we were) and they expressed the difficulty they&#x27;d had with the short-term guests in our building. It had been years of calling the police, legal action, etc. The people I spoke with seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play. They didn&#x27;t enjoy finding drugs in the drive way and urine all over their property.<p>Airbnb, in my opinion, definitely has a detrimental effect on communities. Even if the guests are nice, if some large fraction of the population is turning over daily, that necessarily takes away from the community.
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aloukissasover 4 years ago
Glad to see this. The same thing (to a worse degree) has happened in Athens, where the supply of rental units has diminished to more than 1&#x2F;3 (with average rents going 2-3x in a 1-2 year period), as landlords converted units to short-term rentals. This is particularly touchy for Greece, as tourism accounts for 25%+ of GDP, so tourist-friendly regulation has a big impact. OTOH, it&#x27;s a country with one of the lowest average wages in the EU, which means that the rent increases has made the situation unlivable. Example: average net monthly salary is something in the 800-1000 EUR range, with 300EUR renting you something decent 5 years ago. Today, not only it&#x27;s much harder to find vacant rental units, but their prices have also bumped to 600-700 EUR.<p>IMO, the best approach to this is similar to what the city of Santa Monica has -- hosts can only rent a room in a property (i.e. no &quot;entire house to yourself&quot;), i.e. similar to the couchsurfing model. I&#x27;ve found this a pleasant experience when visiting a new city, as living with a local can make the stay more personal and enjoyable.
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legitsterover 4 years ago
Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hbr.org&#x2F;2019&#x2F;04&#x2F;research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-city-increase-so-do-rent-prices" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hbr.org&#x2F;2019&#x2F;04&#x2F;research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c...</a><p>But the question I always wonder is what&#x27;s so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don&#x27;t have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn&#x27;t seem fair to punish Airbnb owners who are playing arbitrage.
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murbard2over 4 years ago
What&#x27;s in a title? &quot;Paris hails victory&quot;. No. The city government of Paris hails a victory. Whether that&#x27;s a victory for the city and its inhabitants is a very different matter.
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aborsyover 4 years ago
Rents in Paris approach Bay Area level, see per m2 rent or real state prices in common rental sites:<p>www.pap.fr<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.seloger.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.seloger.com&#x2F;</a><p>Government regulations protecting small group of people and vested interests at costs to most other residents have contributed to this.<p>The government is omnipresent. It restricts the supply through various mechanisms among which are these regulations, and subsidizes the demand. The result is skyrocketing rents and prices.<p>With Bay Area rents and low wages, I asked colleagues how people afford their lives in Paris. Apparently, people share, have inherited apartments, use government assigned buildings etc.<p>French might benefit from a healthier more rational (rather than idiological) look at the market economy vs central planning.<p>Note: I know this view is not politically correct and popular in EU, but I thought I would mention it nevertheless. Replacing textbook economy with ideology won’t be beneficial for French. At least listen to what your Nobel prize winners in economy and experts in policy are saying (Tirole etc).
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PeterStuerover 4 years ago
Great news. Finally some counter to these anti-social regulation dodging assaults on the already fragile social contracts in cities.
Mupuffover 4 years ago
Maybe the time is ripe for change. Time to start a Airbnb competitor that doesn&#x27;t follow the mantra &quot;growth at all costs&quot;, and doesn&#x27;t put its own revenue stream above the good of society.
dalbasalover 4 years ago
I don&#x27;t fall strongly on either side of these debates, but I&#x27;m kind of against the debate as a whole.<p>I just don&#x27;t think that trade offs between short stay rentals, even airbnb hotels, and rental housing has much of a win in it for renters even if advocates get everything they want. It seems like a marginal, symbolic issue that sucks up a lot of attention without the potential for meaningful results.<p>Are bans on short term rentals going to noticeably affect housing prices of availability. If not, why are affordable housing activists so interested in this?<p>The whole thing feels like win hunting.
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cblconfederateover 4 years ago
This doesnt seem to be controversial. And TBH i believe the airbnb-airlines-instagram tourism boom party is over. Post covid, with rising unemployment, remote work, and relocation to more livable places, people aren&#x27;t going to be chasing cheap flights for more selfies.
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lhnzover 4 years ago
I wonder if this has a positive or negative effect on tourism within Paris?
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DocTomoeover 4 years ago
Paris government hails victory that will give them more bribe money from local hotel owners.
gridlockdover 4 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=GK37udFtxyA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=GK37udFtxyA</a>
throw_m239339over 4 years ago
off topic: please developers stop hijacking the back button for no reason. It&#x27;s extremely hostile behaviour and you are getting nothing out of it but contempt from the user. Why does the BBC website needs to do that exactly?
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emteyczover 4 years ago
Yeah, Prague politicians are also hailing victories and thanking the coronavirus. Meanwhile, housing prices are up 30%, but who cares about reality, it is Airbnb doing it and it&#x27;s dead, yay!
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